Puppy in California

[Pete]

testing to post

[Pete]

Sorry I am having trouble posting for some reason. I have 2 WD's from Germany and I love them. I have raised Cane Corso for several years, my first had HD at 5 months old and I was given a 14 week old pup with a limp, terrible temperament, lunged at kids that young and never stopped, scared of everything and everyone. I named her Belmonte's Double or Noth'n and guess what I ended up with!! From there I imported my pups flying over several times to pick them myself. I have bred many very nice litters and I have always offered a 3 year health guarantee on all pups. I have delivered pups to Vancouver and Halifax to meet the owners, I have driven almost to Canada twice to meet people and rehome adult dogs. I am available 7 days per week to all my puppy owners, I request pics to be able to watch thier growth and health. I have been very lucky not having to replace pups left and right like some have and I am happy with that, so are my puppy owners. I feel my 3 year health guarantee shows my confidence in my breeding program unlike those that offer 2 years as one poster stated when HD might just start to appear. I understand HD is/can be genetic and or environmental but I prefer to back up what I produce unless of course I have reason not to. I have only replaced a couple dogs for HD and I know most owners don't xray unless there is a problem but there are breeders having to replace pups before they are even a year old so I consider myself very lucky. I like using email rather then phone calls because I then have something to refer back to and if I feel something in that email is not right I am able to question it in a later email and in most case's that person does not remember what they have already said. People can tell you what they think you want to hear so even the best screaning sometimes is not good enough.

[yukidomari]

Pete, with the CCs and the CsVs, I assume you're Blusteel, right?

[Pete]

Good morning Yukidomari, yes I am Blusteel Cane Corso. Our breed just recently went full recognition with AKC and I proudly say that 2 of the 5 invitations to our first Westminster Show have been given to 2 males produced by 2 of my males! I will be there to watch this historical event, I don't even care if they place they will always have the invitations!

[Gypsy Wolf]

Good luck at Westminster! I will be there showing my Malinois, Ch TriSorts Zorro del Mango, RE. Can't wait for the day I can show one of my Vlcaks there. Hoping to at least be able to do Meet the Breed at the upcoming Eukanuba National Championships in Orlando...

[Gypsy Wolf]

Ina, the problem with contracts - especially from Europe - is enforcing them. I have been involved in importing (probably hundreds by now) GSD and Belgian Shepherds from Europe since 1994 and have NEVER had a breeder even suggest a contract. It is nice to see there are a few Vlcak breeders who do it, but even so, how to enforce it here? We have problems enforcing contracts even across state lines, let alone across the pond... I have a contract for each of my puppies, but again, I can list a bunch of "failed" contracts I have heard about from other dog friends... especially if you do not have the money for a big legal battle. And even the flip side - I know of a guy whose 7 month old GSD dropped dead from Sub-Aortic Stenosis and the breeder ended up not holding up her end of the bargain...
Yukodomari, I have attended a multitude of Breeder's Symposiums both at the University of Pennsylvania and University of Florida and HD is described as a multi-factorial issue. Yes, genetics play a big part, but environment and nutrition do, too. A pup with the best genetics can develop HD from inappropriate environment (slick kennel surface) or bad nutrition (puppy food which has an inappropriate calcium to phosphorous ratio and often too much protein as well as unbalanced raw diet). In fact, as a vet tech I saw this so often that in my own puppy contract I stipulate environment and nutritional needs to hopefully prevent problems.
I am sure you can find scientific studies and information by contacting PennHIP vet Dr. Gail Smith. There is a lot of "anecdotal" stuff out there online, too - ask the Dane people about the evils of puppy food! - or I am sure if there are breeders seminars offered in your area... Pat Hastings goes into it in her Puppy Puzzle seminar, too, with a very impressive collection of her own information - pictures, etc...

[yukidomari]

Congrats on the invite, Pete @ Blusteel!

Additionally,

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

Yukodomari, I have attended a multitude of Breeder's Symposiums both at the University of Pennsylvania and University of Florida and HD is described as a multi-factorial issue. Yes, genetics play a big part, but environment and nutrition do, too. A pup with the best genetics can develop HD from inappropriate environment (slick kennel surface) or bad nutrition (puppy food which has an inappropriate calcium to phosphorous ratio and often too much protein as well as unbalanced raw diet). ......There is a lot of "anecdotal" stuff out there online, too - ask the Dane people about the evils of puppy food! -

I did go to some UPenn seminars on HD since one of our dogs has pretty severe HD... it is multi faceted, of course. Just one thing about "puppy food" and giant breeds - I disagree wholeheartedly with the old practice of switching puppies to 'adult' food at 4 months... the problem is, as you say, Cals/Phos ratio, not the additional fat or protein in puppy food. In fact recent published reports confirm that high protein is not the cause for things like irregular rapid growth.

In "Relationship of Nutrition to Developmental Skeletal Disease in Young Dogs" by Daniel C. Richardson & Phillip W. Toll

(emphasis added are mine)

Unlike other species, protein excess has not been demonstrated to negatively affect calcium metabolism or skeletal development in dogs. Protein deficiency, however, has more impact on the developing skeleton. In Great Dane puppies, a protein level of 14.6% (dry matter basis) with 13% of the dietary energy derived from protein can result in significant decreases in bodyweight and plasma albumin and urea concentrations.9,10 The minimum adequate level of dietary protein depends on digestibility, amino acids, and their availability from protein sources. A growth food should contain > 22% protein (dry matter basis) of high biologic value...

Often puppies are switched from growth to maintenance-type foods to avoid calcium excess and skeletal disease. However, because some maintenance foods have much lower energy density than growth foods, the puppy must consume more dry matter volume to meet its energy requirement. If the calcium levels are similar (dry matter basis) between the two foods, the puppy will actually consume more calcium when fed the maintenance food. This point is exemplified in the case of switching a 15-week-old, 15-kg male Rottweiler puppy from a growth food containing, on an as fed b asis, 4.0 kcal/g metabolizable energy and 1.35% calcium (1.5% on a dry matter basis) to a maintenance food containing the same amount of calcium but at a lower, 3.2 kcal/g energy density. The puppy would require approximately 1,600 kcal/day. In order to meet this energy need the puppy would consume approximately 400g of the growth food (containing 5.4g of calcium) vs. 500g of the maintenance food (containing approximately 6.7g of calcium).

Out of all grain free food I know of, the only one with appropriate Cal/Phos for puppies are Orijen and Acana.. even the ones like Taste of the Wild that claim to be "all life breeds" have calcium and phosphorus levels that exceed what I find acceptable and acceptable by published reports.

The problem is finding a correct food with correct cals/phos, not that puppy food is inherently bad for giant growing puppies. In fact many foods marketed as "puppy food" probably don't meet the appropriate levels, either. Suffice to say that adult foods generally have inappropriate C/P levels for puppies, too. A mentor/breeder with Great Danes as well as friends showing Mastiffs have similarly reflected these ideas - and for them, keeping a puppy on an appropriate puppy food is recommended until at least the giant breed is done growing, at least around 1 year old if not more.