Typical temperament of CsWs

[jefta]

BEHAVIOUR AND TEMPERAMENT:
obedient, fearless and courageous. Mistrustful. Versatile in his uses

there are stamp of temperament which are (in my opinion) lost in the breed. There of them Gisu present on high level.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by jefta

there are stamp of temperament which are (in my opinion) lost in the breed. There of them Gisu present on high level.

You can make with Gisu or this type behavior dogs IPO? or not can?

Ina, se moore dogs and compare this dogs in behavior.
yes this is realy new problem- activ and passive temperament. to big problem in working breed.

[jasmine]

IPO? you write this than a lot of csw would have IPO exam????!!!!
Daiva,
There are life out of IPO as well
What is about your dogs ????

Edit

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by jasmine

IPO? you write this than a lot of csw would have IPO exam????!!!!
Daiva,
There are life out of IPO as well
What is about your dogs ????

Edit

i not see question about me dogs

[Morian]

for me the main question is for what? people usually choose dominant dogs for work. and a calm one... eee... for shows? for life as a companion? sorry, i don't have calm wolfdogs, so i can't know it. but it seems we all have forgotten about main purposes of the breed.
we have topic now at russian forum where people say that they heard from some experts that it's normal for csv to be shy etc. sad, very sad.
we all are free to have our own preferences, but then there must be no mention about standard

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Morian

for me the main question is for what? people usually choose dominant dogs for work. and a calm one... eee... for shows? for life as a companion? sorry, i don't have calm wolfdogs, so i can't know it. but it seems we all have forgotten about main purposes of the breed.

Exactly!!! Words "lively", "very active", "with quick reactions", "fearless", "courageous" and "mistrustful" which were put in the standard eliminate very calm and "slow" dogs as not typical for this breed.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by wolfin

Ina, se moore dogs and compare this dogs in behavior.
yes this is realy new problem- activ and passive temperament. to big problem in working breed.

Daiva, I am quite sure that I have seen at least as many dogs as you have, I simply haven´t seen this dog. And I am into CSW since I think about 13 years.
And no, I haven´t seen any dog too passive to be worked but some dogs too active to work anything else but the short sequences of IPO and too active to be proper family dogs. And being not only a vet but also a professional trainer and behaviourist I see much more problems there. Though not a real problem in general with this breed. To be honest I think the charakter has improved a lot in this time and several officials have told us the same opinion.

Times have changed, dogs are kept differently than in military times, society requests other dog-types and people that work their dogs are not only in IPO any longer.
And I don´t want to start the work/sport - discussion again anyway.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Daiva, I am quite sure that I have seen at least as many dogs as you have, I simply haven´t seen this dog. And I am into CSW since I think about 13 years.

I also didn't saw them for years.... They never appeared before....
There was always the problem with too heavy dogs which were too lazy to move... But it was caused by the type such dogs represented - lymphatic dogs tend to be slow and flegmatic.

But since some time there are more and more cases of "Saarloos alike" character by Czechoslovakian Woldogs. There is sojmetimes really no difference between better socialized Saarloos wolfhonds and some CzWs I've seen. Both are... I would not say "friendly" but "indifferent". The behave similar to the dogs which get calming drugs (but I'm 100% that the owners do not gave them any drugs!).
And I know such dogs appeared in different countries...

[jefta]

In standard we have 2 lines descripcion of so broad topic. What is utility of csv? We have two exams: SVP which don't test behavior and IPO which is to difficult because need's good drive and eliminate shy dogs.

Originally Posted by wolfin

You can make with Gisu or this type behavior dogs IPO? or not can?

I have never pasted IPO. He is willing for playing, obedient, easy adapt so maybe low level of IPO...

[jasmine]

There are several exams and several training technics......we were talking about IPO because Daiva wrote about it.
My personal oppinion is yes Margo...csw's are very intelligent, could study easily.....but not the classical working dogs , and not the breed which is good for IPO work. It is not means that some of them couldn't pass.....but those who worked with malinois or gsd...those surely could feel the differences

Edit

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by jasmine

There are several exams and several training technics......we were talking about IPO because Daiva wrote about it.
My personal oppinion is yes Margo...csw's are very intelligent, could study easily.....but not the classical working dogs , and not the breed which is good for IPO work. It is not means that some of them couldn't pass.....but those who worked with malinois or gsd...those surely could feel the differences

Edit

ok obedience, or normal activity, sport, running. Sory but I cry when see dogs who owners please they to runn... normal runn.
and this info we have from moore countrys about atypical activity in wolfdogs and diferent in temperament

p.s. yes when was heavy old cz type dogs this are moore ok, but when now we saw light and moore feminine type dog with this - a little to strange

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by jasmine

My personal oppinion is yes Margo...csw's are very intelligent, could study easily.....but not the classical working dogs , and not the breed which is good for IPO work. It is not means that some of them couldn't pass.....but those who worked with malinois or gsd...those surely could feel the differences

Yes - I would never buy a Wolfdog for IPO, KPNV or mondio. BUT... Wolfdogs were not made for such work....


But let's be honest GSD and Malinois-owners/trainers are.... cheating....

I can prepare some exams which Wolfdogs will pass very easy but here all GSD will fail...

The main "working" exams were made for GSDs (old type) and are also easily to pass for malinois (which are in the fact similar to the "old style" GSD). Wolfdogs have problems topass them because many parts are just simple circus - they do not test the dogs but test if is is possible to train a dog to make a tricks wich have no sence....

Simple example:
SchH - the dog must bark for 20.seconds... Everyone knows that Wolfdogs DO NOT BARK. They see no sense to yap.... Because of it many of the get zero points for it... Why there are no exams where the dogs CAN NOT bark...? Because 90% of GSD would fail?

Another example: tracking by IPO exams... Sorry but to get maximum points you need really a DUMB dog... A dog which HAVE NO IDEA how to track... or... a dog which will fulfill the commands of his owner EVEN of they are totaly idiotic....
The track is about 20 minuts old - it means it is FRESH and the parts of the the smell are still present in the air. No good tracking dog will work on such track with DEEP NOSE - which is required by IPO exam. Every clever dog will use also HIGH NOSE. Because CzWs are perfect tracking dogs and because they are clever dogs they will get less points than GSD or malinois. Maybe they will not even pass this part...
(of course it is possible to train also Wolfdogs to use DEEP NOSE on fresh tracks - but it is harder to do than with "working" breeds. Wolfdogs no to like to make senseless things)

Because of it:
If I would need a dog for tracking exams I would buy GSD or malinois.
If I would need a dog for work - dogs which can track everywere and everything - I would take CzW.

Simply said:
If I would need a "tool" which should fulfil my commands without asking "do you think it make sence" or saying "...but I will make it my way, I can make it better" I would buy one of the "working" dogs.
If I would need a dog who sometimes must work also alone and sometimes must find some solutions by himself - I would take a Wolfdog.


Do you know the story with GSD tracking a missed person? The dogs were tracking it "wonderful" with deep nose but none of the dogs found him...because he was sitting on a tree and none of the dogs was TREAINED to look also up... Wolfdogs have no such problem...

[jefta]

GREAT!!!

[woland77]

I know many dogs than working in IPO and are good family dogs, off course they are most dificult than a Corgi, but they live in family with childreen, others dogs, others animal, no problem with people. From other breeds, and Czw too. I think than a breed, is a working breed, the caracter can't be change because many people want dog like a wolf, but don't want hard dog to keep. I think it is the duty of the breeder follow the standard and not follow the market demand.
For me CzW must be like standard debscrition.

[Morian]

Originally Posted by woland77

I think it is the duty of the breeder follow the standard and not follow the market demand.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by woland77

I know many dogs than working in IPO and are good family dogs, off course they are most dificult than a Corgi, but they live in family with childreen, others dogs, others animal, no problem with people. From other breeds, and Czw too. I think than a breed, is a working breed, the caracter can't be change because many people want dog like a wolf, but don't want hard dog to keep. I think it is the duty of the breeder follow the standard and not follow the market demand.
For me CzW must be like standard debscrition.

Amen.

I decided to have CzW also because of their character. If I would have Saarloos I would but Saarlooos. If I would like to have German Shepherd I would but grey "old style" GSD. If I would like to have sofa dog I would buy Vallhund....

I agree that times has changed - almost nobody makes IPO. But it doesnt mean we have to change the character of your dogs.

Sorry, but as a breeder I will not change character of this breed only because it will be easier to sell the puppies and it will be a chance to make better bussines. Yes - I agree - lazy, unactive dogs will be easier to handle, more people will be able to deal with them, there will be more buyers. But dogs are not "thing " which should be adjust to the market rules and expectations of the buyers.
NO - the character is something what must be stable. Because many for us love this dogs exactly because CzW are as they are...

Sorry, but if the first CzW which I get would be shy like Saarloos and lazy as Neapolitan Mastiff it would be my first and LAST Wolfdog which I get...

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by jefta

there are stamp of temperament which are (in my opinion) lost in the breed.

Are you sure? Sorry, I've seen very little wolfdogs in my life in fact, but the ones I see here, in Lithuania really have no problems with fears or similar I could say that the thing you quoted are just what is so strong in wolfdogs I saw...