About wolfhybrids

michaelundinaeichhorn · 13-11-2010, 10:25

I would rather say the main difference between you two is that Michael is able to see the animal in itself instead of projecting his own wishes and emotions on it.

Nobody denied it is possible to cross a wolf into the breed, the question was if it makes sense. And if you are not able to see the difference between an animal no matter if Northamerican Wolf, European Wolf, Orca or Tiger showing learned behaviour in close sight of a treat in it´s normal surrounding, and a working dog that will work concentrated for several hours in no matter what surrounding every day just for the benefit of working for his owner and will do that amidst traffic, people, massive noise over and over again, there is no use into discussing this matter with you at all. Cause what you obviously don´t seem to be able to understand is that though the way an animal (inclusive our own dogs by the way) learns a command per se is the same it has nothing to do with his ability to show this command obediently under all circumstances. And if you think that any real working dog in this world has never in his live a moment in which it will not have to be asked to do his work instead of something it would rather like to do instead you have never seen a working dog.
And by the way the founder of the German Shepherd did understand this fact very, very well, as well as the scientists in Austria.

Ina

hanninadina · 13-11-2010, 10:46

Is it so, that working dogs work for the benefit of their owners?

As far I know from professionals, like the police in my country - the chief of them is my friend and expert in front of courts - they teach their dogs with toys for confirmation, well done. A few with food. But the same way they do teach the wolves in wolfscience center. Only in a positive way. Of course there are dogs who do it without any positive treatman only for their owner.

It must be said that the wolfcenter does not look especially for characters of wolves. They only wanted to have american ones. And because they were and are new to the americans they listened to Monty Sloan. The next wolves will be hopefully some "dog" wolves. But that shows and confirms again although they did not choose if their wolves have the abilites to work, they were able to teach them.

I do not know if you understand, but as a dog breeder you look for a breeding male who has the abilites and character to make the puppys better and if your female has a fault, the male should make it better and not worser. So you look for the "special" male. And that must be done of course with the wolves too, when you want to work with them. And it is possible because their are lines in the US who proved to be able to.

It was not the question, if the wolf will be able to work in the city center with loud noise. But even this the founder of the german shepard wrote, that the wild court adult wolves he knew were able to live in the city with all his noise, trains and people after socialization. I will send you the link, now where we have the english version here too. I only knew it from the german version.

So Ina, it is much more possible than most people thought. But that is old stuff from almost 100 years ago and seems to be forgotten.

Mikael · 13-11-2010, 11:16

/ Mikael

Vaiva · 14-11-2010, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael

/ Mikael

I can only agree with this

Could anyone be more exact about the story with the police? It is getting more and more interesting. We all read and feel kind of stupid without knowing what are yoy exactly talking about

hanninadina · 14-11-2010, 21:35

You better ask Eichhorns, why they start with a topic which is not in here. Because they do not understand, that my american wolfdog is so nice to everybody and everyone can see in facebook about 20 clips from him being with other dogs, people, even children. It does not confirm that gossip they and fenris are spreading. Over years I am following this gossip. First I only had two csw than I had one and now two american wolfdogs and know 30 personally. And none of these animals confirms what Eichhorns and Fenris are writing here. I put in links from the founder of german shepard who confirms too, that there were around 100 years ago in germany people who did live with wolves.

But that is not the point, I can only repeat, they are not beasts and they are not dangerous. They are more calm than dogs and some are timid, but some are very open and friendly. And I do know 8 year old animals. I am not talking about young ones. I am talking about true mature none neutered adult wolfdogs. Of course they are not for everyone - like herding dogs, some gsd, some Rottweiler....; like a Ferrari is no family car. It is very simple.

And so I only say, better all are working together and cross offcially new wolfblood in the csw, when people think that there will be healthy problems. If not, there is no need. I do not care. But I can not understand when people are crying for bad planned litters and lack of genetic variablity. So than do something. Of course there are already bred in wolves. But in other recognized breeds there are bred in dogs who are not the ones who are written in pedigree. This fci world is odd...

13-11-2010, 10:46	#2
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	Is it so, that working dogs work for the benefit of their owners? As far I know from professionals, like the police in my country - the chief of them is my friend and expert in front of courts - they teach their dogs with toys for confirmation, well done. A few with food. But the same way they do teach the wolves in wolfscience center. Only in a positive way. Of course there are dogs who do it without any positive treatman only for their owner. It must be said that the wolfcenter does not look especially for characters of wolves. They only wanted to have american ones. And because they were and are new to the americans they listened to Monty Sloan. The next wolves will be hopefully some "dog" wolves. But that shows and confirms again although they did not choose if their wolves have the abilites to work, they were able to teach them. I do not know if you understand, but as a dog breeder you look for a breeding male who has the abilites and character to make the puppys better and if your female has a fault, the male should make it better and not worser. So you look for the "special" male. And that must be done of course with the wolves too, when you want to work with them. And it is possible because their are lines in the US who proved to be able to. It was not the question, if the wolf will be able to work in the city center with loud noise. But even this the founder of the german shepard wrote, that the wild court adult wolves he knew were able to live in the city with all his noise, trains and people after socialization. I will send you the link, now where we have the english version here too. I only knew it from the german version. So Ina, it is much more possible than most people thought. But that is old stuff from almost 100 years ago and seems to be forgotten. Last edited by hanninadina; 13-11-2010 at 10:50.

13-11-2010, 11:16	#3
Mikael Scandinavian Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 1,089	/ Mikael __________________ _________________________________________________ Hronec, Rasty, Zilja Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wolfdo...53067971392916

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13-11-2010, 10:25	#1
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	I would rather say the main difference between you two is that Michael is able to see the animal in itself instead of projecting his own wishes and emotions on it. Nobody denied it is possible to cross a wolf into the breed, the question was if it makes sense. And if you are not able to see the difference between an animal no matter if Northamerican Wolf, European Wolf, Orca or Tiger showing learned behaviour in close sight of a treat in it´s normal surrounding, and a working dog that will work concentrated for several hours in no matter what surrounding every day just for the benefit of working for his owner and will do that amidst traffic, people, massive noise over and over again, there is no use into discussing this matter with you at all. Cause what you obviously don´t seem to be able to understand is that though the way an animal (inclusive our own dogs by the way) learns a command per se is the same it has nothing to do with his ability to show this command obediently under all circumstances. And if you think that any real working dog in this world has never in his live a moment in which it will not have to be asked to do his work instead of something it would rather like to do instead you have never seen a working dog. And by the way the founder of the German Shepherd did understand this fact very, very well, as well as the scientists in Austria. Ina

14-11-2010, 21:35	#5
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	You better ask Eichhorns, why they start with a topic which is not in here. Because they do not understand, that my american wolfdog is so nice to everybody and everyone can see in facebook about 20 clips from him being with other dogs, people, even children. It does not confirm that gossip they and fenris are spreading. Over years I am following this gossip. First I only had two csw than I had one and now two american wolfdogs and know 30 personally. And none of these animals confirms what Eichhorns and Fenris are writing here. I put in links from the founder of german shepard who confirms too, that there were around 100 years ago in germany people who did live with wolves. But that is not the point, I can only repeat, they are not beasts and they are not dangerous. They are more calm than dogs and some are timid, but some are very open and friendly. And I do know 8 year old animals. I am not talking about young ones. I am talking about true mature none neutered adult wolfdogs. Of course they are not for everyone - like herding dogs, some gsd, some Rottweiler....; like a Ferrari is no family car. It is very simple. And so I only say, better all are working together and cross offcially new wolfblood in the csw, when people think that there will be healthy problems. If not, there is no need. I do not care. But I can not understand when people are crying for bad planned litters and lack of genetic variablity. So than do something. Of course there are already bred in wolves. But in other recognized breeds there are bred in dogs who are not the ones who are written in pedigree. This fci world is odd...