Can of Worms: Update on Mutara dogs?

[Hanka]

Hi Lunas mom. After czech club conferention (14 days later) I will write more info about breeding of Mutaras and all their offsprings here in Czech republic. I hope, they will not in Czech for ever. I hope candidats on conferention will vote good thing. Cross fingers .

[AMERICANI]

The key word in....."Responsible Breeder" is..... "responsible". Europe has always done things differently than we have... ENCI is Italy's AKC. 4 of 5 of my dogs are ENCI registered. All 5 are FCI listed. You have to do your homework with this or any other "breed" to keep what you believe to be good and true as such. Being that Italy has the most breeders of the Vlcak (not exactly a good thing---more like arrogance if you ask me) I don't think knocking them is the answer, but developing ours (as Americans) to our specs and reqs. Every day I see a "border patrol issue" which makes me all the more stoked, because that is what these guys are for! They are not exactly the Disney promoted "family pet" which we have engraved into our imaginations, but they ARE loyal, loving, and DETERMINED to do things (trained or not). I strongly feel the need to jackhammer this into the heads of all the @#$^&s who keep e-mailing me. My first dog was a Beagle (we bred Beagles)... Aggression was an issue with ours. My second, a half Doberman-half Lab. (the best dog ever). I love my pack (and will do anything for their well-being), but I WILL NOT recommend them to just anyone.

[massimo]

Originally Posted by AMERICANI

Being that Italy has the most breeders of the Vlcak (not exactly a good thing---more like arrogance if you ask me) I don't think knocking them is the answer, but developing ours (as Americans) to our specs and reqs.

Have you ever spoken to any Italian Breeder??
Do you know , honestly, what the hell you are talking about??
Italy has the most breeders, they are in fact MANY.
Does this mean they are ALL bad??
good lord...I feel like in a nursery sometimes.

[Pavel]

Short bad information for "Mutara lovers" :
Yesterday CZ conference of Club decided to put a new important regulation. All dogs, they want to have CZ CsW pedigree must have minimally since year 1999 all ancestors clear CsW with FCI recognised pedigree (not register, but normally pedigree). Its mean, that is somebody will try to import an CsW with e.g. italian pedigree, in which will be 3 generation CsW, bud by check 6 generation in database will be found, that in 2008 is there some dog with italian register, dont get in CZ the registration as CsW. Such dog have chance get in CZ register pedigree like a hybrid only, but about it must decided CZ Club (register pedigree is not obligatory). Same searching in database will be done by every using the stud or bitch in breed from abroad.

[hanninadina]

Pavel, Hanka, your problem is that you are fighting a private war and you are looking to much through the breeders glaces. Don´t you think that their are a lot of people who don´t care what your breeding comittee does? Come down to earth. You have no chance there are more other wolfdogs than Mutaras way inside the csw breed. If you do not be open, you will never get information. I forget the name, but she wrote it here, it is best, when you know everything about these "other" wolfdogs who are brought into the breed, than to hide it or they will be forbidden. These wolfdogs have so many fans that they do not care what you are doing. Work together and than everyone cna decide by himself what he likes more.

The world is turning around and around and no one can stop it! And of course not the czech breeding comittee.

Christian

PS: I am absolute against mixing csw with other wolfdogs! But live and let live.

[Pavel]

Christian, first must say, that its not a private war. We are genetical source of breed. Like a country of origin we must care about genetical variability and purity of breed. Through fact, that e.g. Italy is in number of puppies born yearly on top and higher, than CZ, interest about buing puppy from CZ from abroad is not lower.
In other countries you can doing, whats you want, but we in CZ guarantee from now more or less, that you buy here with CsW pedigree really CsW only.

[koboldine]

@ Christian:
to some extend you are right. But only to some.
The CsW is a recognised breed, bred on purpose according to a standard which had to be approved as well as the dogs themselves.
This standard and the actions of the breeding comitee were supposed to insure that this breed was started (an later continued) within 4 registred wolf crossings. Even those animals were considered and brought in intentionally according to the needs AND in agreement with the majority of representatives for this breed.

ANY other way to cross breed with any wolf cannot be acceptable as it would open the breed to a mixture due to the thoughts of this or that breeder, only. But then the csw cannot be called FCI recognised breed anylonger.

IF one wants a dog according to a certain breed standard they should be able to recognise this particular breed by the accompanying documents.
IF one does not care which breed their (future) dog belongs to they also should be made aware that they just have decided to buy a mix - which certainly restricts some perspectives like becoming a breeder themselves of the breed they actually wanted but decided otherwise. But they will most certainly get a dog they will hopefully love...

There is nothing wrong with people who want ANY wolf look-alike, and this is what Mutara seems to be, another wolf-look-alike mixture bred in a csw kennel - nothing less.

IF some people like these dogs - allright. But there is no need that the officials recognise them as csw - which now has been made clear by the comitee. Nothing is worse than not knowing what you deal with, now everyone knows and may act accordingly.

You say live and let live: allright.
But to keep the acknowledgement as a breed the CsW needs to be distanced from any other wolf look-alike...

I am glad that the comitee now has decided, even if this decission might come hard on some of the owners.

regards
koboldine

PS: Nevertheless, you and the other who said you need to know what they are doing and not hide them... are right. Therefore I think the comitee has planned to mark them in data bases - if I understood correctly

[Hanka]

Hi Christian. I think you have some bad information. I have private war with nobody. I fight with nobody. If somebody tell you something other.............
I only don´t want Mutara hybrids and something similar in czech breeding. But I am not alone. Yesterday we had czech club conferention and there was full room of people which think the same. I think, you don´t know situation in czech club. Here nobody wants to have some "dirty breeding". All czech dogs must have 100% clear pedigree. It is right, isn´t it?
You could visit our conferention and you could to see real situation here.

[Gypsy Wolf]

One important question: How are we going to make sure Italian mutaras stay out of the gene pool if a clever breeder falsifies pedigrees? Are they going to be genetically recorded so we know the pedigrees are accurate to the CsV? Here in the U.S. AKC and UKC do DNA Printing to confirm parentage. Will CZ/SK and FCI do this to keep mutaras out of the gene pool?

[AMERICANI]

Originally Posted by massimo

Have you ever spoken to any Italian Breeder??
Do you know , honestly, what the hell you are talking about??
Italy has the most breeders, they are in fact MANY.
Does this mean they are ALL bad??
good lord...I feel like in a nursery sometimes.

I have only on occasion spoken to breeders who weren't Italian. 90% of the breeders I know are Italian. I was just highlighting the fact that more does not mean better! And I think you are a bit confused also as to the fact that I was saying not all Italian breeders are bad!