CSV Mixes in the US

michaelundinaeichhorn · 24-02-2010, 14:30

Sure it is, I simply come to diffent conclusions or better think that there is no general conclusion.
I have looked up if the German study has been translated but it seems it has not. It is a whole paper showing up much more aspects and the author has collected datas from more than 1000 owners and asked every dogsschool for their experiences. This combined with the medical point of view gives a more objective view to many aspects.
Especially when you look at castration in very early age you will find a 100% pro if you ask a surgeon, the same in your study as far as I remember, you will come to nearly 100% contra if you ask German dogschools and most owners. It´s almost only pro is the much easier and quicker surgery and the study showed that the very often denied cons clearly exist.

elf · 24-02-2010, 15:07

Thanks Ina, very interesting results !

miran · 24-02-2010, 15:26

Thanks for you're answer Ina.
I know know that you look good at the individual cases and that's good.

Nebulosa · 24-02-2010, 18:47

To tell the truth, different view in different countries because of different situations.

Here we have a tons of mutts wandering in the street, getting crushed by cars, poisoned or dying from diseases, often these mutts are responsible for some different kinds of zoonosis.
Most part of our people with medium/low (also high sometime) class are completly ignorant, wich loves to make non planned litters matting his own dog with the neighbor ones because they look like a breed dog, the puppies born, they sold for a low price or change for eletronical equipments, and if they dont find homes for all pups the remains go to street, increasing the number of mutts.
Also we have here a nice problem with Piometra, most of the non neuthered females will have such problem sooner or latter, mostly of the owners wich have non-neuthered dogs does not know about it and commonly only note the piometra when its too late, it when people didn't tried before some kind of "natural medicine", "pray" or something more vague for try to cure the dog.
Of course we know the problems that comes with the castration, principaly the early one, but in the campaign its simply "forgoten" for God sake

, as if we start to bring fair informations about neuthering a dog with the positive and negative sides, everyone will only look at the negative side for dont neuther the dog and continue to bring more dogs lost in this world, after make his female suffer and die because of piometra wich the irresponsible owner was unable to see when is irresponsible enough to dont search for a vet (becuse his grandmother knows how to cure it).
So here you have everyone pro castration, dogschools, vets and owners, particulary I neuther all my dogs when they will not be used for breeding after they reach 18 months, i'm also completly pro the castration of elder females, when they will not be used on breeding anymore as a way to avoid problems (hem.. principaly piometra, I swear i'm not traumatized with this disease but is that here its very common

)

michaelundinaeichhorn · 24-02-2010, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

To tell the truth, different view in different countries because of different situations.

)

That is exactly the point, you can´t give general rules for the whole world but have to look at situations.
Of course we see Pyometras but not very often and they are normally family pets will see a vet and get surgery and treatment, no matter what costs.

mijke · 25-02-2010, 16:45

Different countries, different opinions and also different advertisement!

In Holland animal shelters, animal protect organisations and vets make advertisement for sterilization and castration with slogans like this:
“Protect your female against pyometra and mama gland tumors by sterilisation!”

(For males they use only castration for females two methods are used: ovario-hysterectomie (OVH – everything is deleted) and ovari-ectomie (OVE - the uterus is not deleted)

michaelundinaeichhorn · 26-02-2010, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke

(For males they use only castration for females two methods are used: ovario-hysterectomie (OVH – everything is deleted) and ovari-ectomie (OVE - the uterus is not deleted)

Both is a castration. Castration simply means the reproductive glands are removed.

michaelundinaeichhorn · 24-02-2010, 15:10

The results in the German study concerning behaviour differ in some aspects:

Behavioural Changes in bitches after castration::
higher consistency: 51 %
more active behaviour: 22 %
lethargic behaviour: 15 %
less aggression against other bitches: 12 %
increased aggression against other bitches: 9 %
increased aggression against other dogs in general: 11 %

The higher consistnency seen in 51% of spayed bitches has its origin in the fact that the hormonel caused cyclus fluctuations don´t exist any longer. These cyclic fluctuaions are also seen in women.This fact alone shouldn´t be a reason to spay a bitch.
In bitches that underwent early spaying (before the first heat) there is also a high risk of increased fear behaviour. This can show up in separation anxiety or increased flight tendency.
Bitches that have underwent castration during or shortly after heat show a higher amount of Behavioural changings like aggression or depression.

Behavioural changes in males:
higher consistency: 63 %
increased obidience: 34 %
decreased aggression against other males: 34 %
mounting by other males: 19 %
lethargic behaviour: 13 %
uneasiness (uncertanty) with other dogs: 7 %
decreased aggression against family members: 7 %
decreased aggression agains strangers: 2 %

The improvement in obedience may result partly that situations when the male hasen´t been obidient because of the smell of a bitch will decrease...
In males the changement in aggressiv behaviour seems to be highly dependent of age: Animals that have been castrated in an age of under 6 month and also in an age between 6 - 12 month show are more likely to show aggressiv behaviour agains other dogs in general and show less consistency in behaviour.

Aggressiv Behaviour of both sexes against other dogs and also humans often occurs the first time after castration...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The last conclusions will differ from the USA because it is quite unusual to castrate males in our country, in most cases it is done because there have already been problems, mostly of aggression. If you look at this fact the changes in aggressiv behaviour are very low.
What has been shown in this study is that castration of males can cause aggression because of higher anxiety in social contacts.

All translated parts a out of the "Bielefelder Studie" by Gabriele Niepel

24-02-2010, 14:30	#1
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	Sure it is, I simply come to diffent conclusions or better think that there is no general conclusion. I have looked up if the German study has been translated but it seems it has not. It is a whole paper showing up much more aspects and the author has collected datas from more than 1000 owners and asked every dogsschool for their experiences. This combined with the medical point of view gives a more objective view to many aspects. Especially when you look at castration in very early age you will find a 100% pro if you ask a surgeon, the same in your study as far as I remember, you will come to nearly 100% contra if you ask German dogschools and most owners. It´s almost only pro is the much easier and quicker surgery and the study showed that the very often denied cons clearly exist. Last edited by michaelundinaeichhorn; 24-02-2010 at 14:36.

24-02-2010, 15:07	#2
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	Thanks Ina, very interesting results ! __________________ http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...m/csvstat.html

24-02-2010, 18:47	#4
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	To tell the truth, different view in different countries because of different situations. Here we have a tons of mutts wandering in the street, getting crushed by cars, poisoned or dying from diseases, often these mutts are responsible for some different kinds of zoonosis. Most part of our people with medium/low (also high sometime) class are completly ignorant, wich loves to make non planned litters matting his own dog with the neighbor ones because they look like a breed dog, the puppies born, they sold for a low price or change for eletronical equipments, and if they dont find homes for all pups the remains go to street, increasing the number of mutts. Also we have here a nice problem with Piometra, most of the non neuthered females will have such problem sooner or latter, mostly of the owners wich have non-neuthered dogs does not know about it and commonly only note the piometra when its too late, it when people didn't tried before some kind of "natural medicine", "pray" or something more vague for try to cure the dog. Of course we know the problems that comes with the castration, principaly the early one, but in the campaign its simply "forgoten" for God sake , as if we start to bring fair informations about neuthering a dog with the positive and negative sides, everyone will only look at the negative side for dont neuther the dog and continue to bring more dogs lost in this world, after make his female suffer and die because of piometra wich the irresponsible owner was unable to see when is irresponsible enough to dont search for a vet (becuse his grandmother knows how to cure it). So here you have everyone pro castration, dogschools, vets and owners, particulary I neuther all my dogs when they will not be used for breeding after they reach 18 months, i'm also completly pro the castration of elder females, when they will not be used on breeding anymore as a way to avoid problems (hem.. principaly piometra, I swear i'm not traumatized with this disease but is that here its very common ) __________________

25-02-2010, 16:45	#6
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	Different countries, different opinions and also different advertisement! In Holland animal shelters, animal protect organisations and vets make advertisement for sterilization and castration with slogans like this: “Protect your female against pyometra and mama gland tumors by sterilisation!” (For males they use only castration for females two methods are used: ovario-hysterectomie (OVH – everything is deleted) and ovari-ectomie (OVE - the uterus is not deleted) __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

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24-02-2010, 15:26	#3
miran Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 245	Thanks for you're answer Ina. I know know that you look good at the individual cases and that's good.

24-02-2010, 15:10	#8
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	The results in the German study concerning behaviour differ in some aspects: Behavioural Changes in bitches after castration:: higher consistency: 51 % more active behaviour: 22 % lethargic behaviour: 15 % less aggression against other bitches: 12 % increased aggression against other bitches: 9 % increased aggression against other dogs in general: 11 % The higher consistnency seen in 51% of spayed bitches has its origin in the fact that the hormonel caused cyclus fluctuations don´t exist any longer. These cyclic fluctuaions are also seen in women.This fact alone shouldn´t be a reason to spay a bitch. In bitches that underwent early spaying (before the first heat) there is also a high risk of increased fear behaviour. This can show up in separation anxiety or increased flight tendency. Bitches that have underwent castration during or shortly after heat show a higher amount of Behavioural changings like aggression or depression. Behavioural changes in males: higher consistency: 63 % increased obidience: 34 % decreased aggression against other males: 34 % mounting by other males: 19 % lethargic behaviour: 13 % uneasiness (uncertanty) with other dogs: 7 % decreased aggression against family members: 7 % decreased aggression agains strangers: 2 % The improvement in obedience may result partly that situations when the male hasen´t been obidient because of the smell of a bitch will decrease... In males the changement in aggressiv behaviour seems to be highly dependent of age: Animals that have been castrated in an age of under 6 month and also in an age between 6 - 12 month show are more likely to show aggressiv behaviour agains other dogs in general and show less consistency in behaviour. Aggressiv Behaviour of both sexes against other dogs and also humans often occurs the first time after castration... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The last conclusions will differ from the USA because it is quite unusual to castrate males in our country, in most cases it is done because there have already been problems, mostly of aggression. If you look at this fact the changes in aggressiv behaviour are very low. What has been shown in this study is that castration of males can cause aggression because of higher anxiety in social contacts. All translated parts a out of the "Bielefelder Studie" by Gabriele Niepel