DM test for CsW is available!

mijke · 26-01-2010, 16:59

An animal can be free and has in that situation two healthy alleles. When used in breeding this animal will not become ill due to the disease. It cannot spread the disease in the population.

An animal can be carrier and has in that situation one healthy and one disease allele. When used in breeding theoretically 50 percent of the offspring will receive the disease allele. Carriers will not become ill.

An animal can be affected and has in that situation two disease alleles. When used in breeding all offspring will also receive the disease allele. Affected dogs will become ill.

I am convinced that it is only a matter of time, that all diseases that we now can see in GSD and SWH breed will appear in CsW.

But because we now have DNA tests for Dwarfism and DM we also can find out how these diseases are spread in the breed.

In the dwarfism mutation we see it is more spread (in several lines) then thought.
In DM we know now only the official results of 2 CsW's (from different lines) who were affected. And I am sure there are a lot more.
But because this disease appears when the dog is older, it is not always recognized (by owner or vet) as DM.

So at least it would be a good reason for owners of older dogs with these kind of problems to make the DNA test!
But also for all owners and breeders it is a good suggestion to test , to see if and how this mutation is spread.

But of course this is always a personal choice!

As I did said before, in all labs that make the DNA test for DM can be made a test for a CsW. Because now we know the mutation in SOD1-Gen is the same for CsW breed.

For example in: van Haeringen lab in Holland

By sending EDTA blood or swab with a form to:

Dr. van Haeringen lab . BV
P.O. Box 408
6700 AK Wageningen
The Netherlands

HERE you can find their info about the DM test in English language
HERE you can download a form in English language

The price is Euro 59,50 ex BTW
An owner receives a bill together with the test result

Or in: Laboklin labor in Germany

By sending EDTA blood or swab with a form to:

Laboklin Labor
Postbox 1810
97668 Bad Kissingen
Deutschland

HERE you can find their info about the DM test in German language.

HERE you can find their info about the DM test in English language

HERE you can download a form and the info about this in German language

HERE you can download a form and the info about this in English language

elf · 26-01-2010, 18:03

In fact I was thinking about what would be a clever breeding program regarding DM for CSV, because if one looks at OFA statistic for GSD here it is ( http://www.offa.org/dnateststats.html ):

GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG
CLEAR 213 46%
CARRIER 151 33%
AT RISK 98 21%
TOTAL ABNORMAL 249 54%
TOTAL TESTED 462

So 54% abnormal...

mijke · 27-01-2010, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by elf

In fact I was thinking about what would be a clever breeding program regarding DM for CSV, because if one looks at OFA statistic for GSD here it is ( http://www.offa.org/dnateststats.html ):

GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG
CLEAR 213 46%
CARRIER 151 33%
AT RISK 98 21%
TOTAL ABNORMAL 249 54%
TOTAL TESTED 462

So 54% abnormal...

Hmmmm.. I think that is a bit complicated on this moment.

We just did start with testing and don't have a clue how many dogs will be carrier or affected.

Besides that it is know that not all affected ones become ill between 8 and 10years. Some of them have other problems or die before they have DM problems. And with other dogs the problems develop when they are 13 years or older.

The research of Missouri recommends:
We recommend that dog breeders take into consideration the DM test results as they plan their breeding programs; however, they should not over-emphasize this test result. Instead, the test result is one factor among many in a balanced breeding program.

And I agree with this! We should not over react on DM.

There will appear more diseases (and tests for this) in future.

Most of the Carriers and Affected dogs will have also good genes for the future of the breed!

And we can't afford to exclude all these dogs for the gene pool of the breed.

We need time to reduce this disease!
So maybe we can choose to make combinations Affected x Free and Carrier x Free (and of course Free x Free

).
Then you don't create Affected ones any more

And yes indeed than you are still spreading the defect gene in the population.
But when you want to exclude all the Carriers and Affected ones, you can wait for other new genetic diseases!

But I hope everyone realizes also that although when we don't exclude dogs, it is very important to test as many dogs as we can!

A bit of topic:
After I did receive some questions about DNA tests for MD, I also want to explain another thing.

The test that is validated for CsW is based on MDO1 gene. This is the same test that is developed in Missouri (Click HERE for more info about all Missouri research)

Besides this on internet is also to find info about the DM Flash test 1101 (of dr Clemmons) in Florida. But there was never a scientific publication about this test, and I was informed by specialist that this test is not trustful.

jmvdwiel · 30-01-2010, 19:48

Hi here again some video material I found and did want to share with you all. Those video's were made before the DNA test was available, but wil provide you with some more information about DM.
http://www.akcchf.org/video/viewer.cfm?vid=1

And when you have a dog with DM here is a video how to care for this dog, I don't think I would go that far with a dog of mine.. but that is something that every owner has to deside for himself.
http://www.akcchf.org/video/viewer.cfm?vid=2

So I think we have the tool now to get rid of this problem in the future, see for yourself and again... wise decisions to be made.

Mikael · 30-01-2010, 20:00

Thanks

Poor poor dogs

I will test all my dogs for DM

Very best regards / Mikael

jmvdwiel · 30-01-2010, 20:16

more video materials at
http://video.google.nl/videosearch?h...ed=0CB0QqwQwAw#

you can even give your dog a nice wheelchair until her frontleg wil collaps also

, so delay of execution

GalomyOak · 30-01-2010, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke

A bit of topic:
After I did receive some questions about DNA tests for MD, I also want to explain another thing.

The test that is validated for CsW is based on MDO1 gene. This is the same test that is developed in Missouri (Click HERE for more info about all Missouri research)

Besides this on internet is also to find info about the DM Flash test 1101 (of dr Clemmons) in Florida. But there was never a scientific publication about this test, and I was informed by specialist that this test is not trustful.

Thanks Mijke!

On my next pay check, I will test at least a couple of dogs, and then the other two on the paycheck after that. The Missouri test is better for another reason - in the US (or anywhere), the results are displayed on the OFA database, along with all of our dog's other information (except for PennHip results - hopefully UPenn will have an online database someday

). The cost for this test is US$65.

Marcy

draggar · 21-02-2010, 02:46

A good friend of ours lost her GSD from DM. One year he was #25 in the world for schutzhund and about 18-24 months later he had to be put down. The DM came into his system quickly and didn't hold back at all. One day he was a little sensitive in his foot and about 8 months later the owner had to put him down. We were all devastated.

The good news is that even a dog with the A/A gene, if bred to a N/N dog the puppies would be, at worst, carriers. If a carrier (N/A) is bred to a N/N dog, then all the dogs will be N/N.

It's sad to see so many GSD breeders refuse to test their dogs, "I don't worry, DM isn't in my lines". How can you tell if you've never tested them?

The test is around $65 (US) and run by OFA - well worth the price. We DM tested our GSD and she's N/N.

jmvdwiel · 21-02-2010, 09:52

If a carrier(N/A is bred to a N/N dog, than half of the dogs wil be N/N and half wil be N/A (so all healthy!!)

If a A/A is crossed with an N/N all dogs wil be cariers !!!! (so all healthy) a little nuance difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draggar

The good news is that even a dog with the A/A gene, if bred to a N/N dog the puppies would be, at worst, carriers. If a carrier (N/A) is bred to a N/N dog, then all the dogs will be N/N.

draggar · 21-02-2010, 14:47

Let me look into it. I might have a contact in UFl in Ganesville, or have a contact who has a contact there.

solowolf · 26-01-2010, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke

An animal can be free and has in that situation two healthy alleles. When used in breeding this animal will not become ill due to the disease. It cannot spread the disease in the population.

An animal can be carrier and has in that situation one healthy and one disease allele. When used in breeding theoretically 50 percent of the offspring will receive the disease allele. Carriers will not become ill.

An animal can be affected and has in that situation two disease alleles. When used in breeding all offspring will also receive the disease allele. Affected dogs will become ill.

I am convinced that it is only a matter of time, that all diseases that we now can see in GSD and SWH breed will appear in CsW.

But because we now have DNA tests for Dwarfism and DM we also can find out how these diseases are spread in the breed.

In the dwarfism mutation we see it is more spread (in several lines) then thought.
In DM we know now only the official results of 2 CsW's (from different lines) who were affected. And I am sure there are a lot more.
But because this disease appears when the dog is older, it is not always recognized (by owner or vet) as DM.

So at least it would be a good reason for owners of older dogs with these kind of problems to make the DNA test!
But also for all owners and breeders it is a good suggestion to test , to see if and how this mutation is spread.

But of course this is always a personal choice!

As I did said before, in all labs that make the DNA test for DM can be made a test for a CsW. Because now we know the mutation in SOD1-Gen is the same for CsW breed.

For example in: van Haeringen lab in Holland

By sending EDTA blood or swab with a form to:

Dr. van Haeringen lab . BV
P.O. Box 408
6700 AK Wageningen
The Netherlands

HERE you can find their info about the DM test in English language
HERE you can download a form in English language

The price is Euro 59,50 ex BTW
An owner receives a bill together with the test result

Or in: Laboklin labor in Germany

By sending EDTA blood or swab with a form to:

Laboklin Labor
Postbox 1810
97668 Bad Kissingen
Deutschland

HERE you can find their info about the DM test in German language.

HERE you can find their info about the DM test in English language

HERE you can download a form and the info about this in German language

HERE you can download a form and the info about this in English language

truth hurts ill put it all on my wed site then private mail everyone

jmvdwiel · 27-01-2010, 21:41

On page 4 of his link http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/20...12297106SI.pdf you can see a movie about the different stages of DM, from mild ataxie which the dog doesn't hurt til severe problems and the end stage that also the front legs and the swallowing are affected, I don't think you want this to happen to YOUR dog ........

On this link you can read more scientific stuf about the test and the resembles whith a human disease
http://www.pnas.org/content/106/8/2794.full.pdf+html

My conclusion would be... make a wise decision with the knowledge you are provided.

26-01-2010, 16:59	#1
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	An animal can be free and has in that situation two healthy alleles. When used in breeding this animal will not become ill due to the disease. It cannot spread the disease in the population. An animal can be carrier and has in that situation one healthy and one disease allele. When used in breeding theoretically 50 percent of the offspring will receive the disease allele. Carriers will not become ill. An animal can be affected and has in that situation two disease alleles. When used in breeding all offspring will also receive the disease allele. Affected dogs will become ill. I am convinced that it is only a matter of time, that all diseases that we now can see in GSD and SWH breed will appear in CsW. But because we now have DNA tests for Dwarfism and DM we also can find out how these diseases are spread in the breed. In the dwarfism mutation we see it is more spread (in several lines) then thought. In DM we know now only the official results of 2 CsW's (from different lines) who were affected. And I am sure there are a lot more. But because this disease appears when the dog is older, it is not always recognized (by owner or vet) as DM. So at least it would be a good reason for owners of older dogs with these kind of problems to make the DNA test! But also for all owners and breeders it is a good suggestion to test , to see if and how this mutation is spread. But of course this is always a personal choice! As I did said before, in all labs that make the DNA test for DM can be made a test for a CsW. Because now we know the mutation in SOD1-Gen is the same for CsW breed. For example in: van Haeringen lab in Holland By sending EDTA blood or swab with a form to: Dr. van Haeringen lab . BV P.O. Box 408 6700 AK Wageningen The Netherlands HERE you can find their info about the DM test in English language HERE you can download a form in English language The price is Euro 59,50 ex BTW An owner receives a bill together with the test result Or in: Laboklin labor in Germany By sending EDTA blood or swab with a form to: Laboklin Labor Postbox 1810 97668 Bad Kissingen Deutschland HERE you can find their info about the DM test in German language. HERE you can find their info about the DM test in English language HERE you can download a form and the info about this in German language HERE you can download a form and the info about this in English language __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

30-01-2010, 20:00	#5
Mikael Scandinavian Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 1,089	Thanks Poor poor dogs I will test all my dogs for DM Very best regards / Mikael __________________ _________________________________________________ Hronec, Rasty, Zilja Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wolfdo...53067971392916

21-02-2010, 02:46	#8
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	A good friend of ours lost her GSD from DM. One year he was #25 in the world for schutzhund and about 18-24 months later he had to be put down. The DM came into his system quickly and didn't hold back at all. One day he was a little sensitive in his foot and about 8 months later the owner had to put him down. We were all devastated. The good news is that even a dog with the A/A gene, if bred to a N/N dog the puppies would be, at worst, carriers. If a carrier (N/A) is bred to a N/N dog, then all the dogs will be N/N. It's sad to see so many GSD breeders refuse to test their dogs, "I don't worry, DM isn't in my lines". How can you tell if you've never tested them? The test is around $65 (US) and run by OFA - well worth the price. We DM tested our GSD and she's N/N. __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

21-02-2010, 14:47	#10
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	Let me look into it. I might have a contact in UFl in Ganesville, or have a contact who has a contact there. __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

26-01-2010, 18:03	#2
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	In fact I was thinking about what would be a clever breeding program regarding DM for CSV, because if one looks at OFA statistic for GSD here it is ( http://www.offa.org/dnateststats.html ): GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG CLEAR 213 46% CARRIER 151 33% AT RISK 98 21% TOTAL ABNORMAL 249 54% TOTAL TESTED 462 So 54% abnormal... __________________ http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...m/csvstat.html

30-01-2010, 19:48	#4
jmvdwiel Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,061	Hi here again some video material I found and did want to share with you all. Those video's were made before the DNA test was available, but wil provide you with some more information about DM. http://www.akcchf.org/video/viewer.cfm?vid=1 And when you have a dog with DM here is a video how to care for this dog, I don't think I would go that far with a dog of mine.. but that is something that every owner has to deside for himself. http://www.akcchf.org/video/viewer.cfm?vid=2 So I think we have the tool now to get rid of this problem in the future, see for yourself and again... wise decisions to be made.

30-01-2010, 20:16	#6
jmvdwiel Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,061	more video materials at http://video.google.nl/videosearch?h...ed=0CB0QqwQwAw# you can even give your dog a nice wheelchair until her frontleg wil collaps also , so delay of execution

27-01-2010, 21:41	#12
jmvdwiel Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,061	On page 4 of his link http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/20...12297106SI.pdf you can see a movie about the different stages of DM, from mild ataxie which the dog doesn't hurt til severe problems and the end stage that also the front legs and the swallowing are affected, I don't think you want this to happen to YOUR dog ........ On this link you can read more scientific stuf about the test and the resembles whith a human disease http://www.pnas.org/content/106/8/2794.full.pdf+html My conclusion would be... make a wise decision with the knowledge you are provided.