'Jackals' vs. 'Asian Ovtcharkas'

[Monika]

Originally Posted by Monika

z Molu Es - 163 puppies. Checked= no idea, not all results are published. Dogs with x-rays = 60
Stats:
HD-A = 30 dogs and it makes 50%
HD-B = 10 dogs and it makes 16.7%
HD-C = 10 dogs and it makes 16.7%
HD-D = 8 dogs and it makes 1.3%
HD-E = 2 dogs and it makes 0.33%
Results made in Czech Republic, Denmark, Italy, France, Poland and one in Germany.

z Peronowki - 101 puppies. Checked= all listed, no results hidden. Dogs with x-rays = 47
Stats:
HD-A = 40 dogs and it makes 85.1%
HD-B = 5 dogs and it makes 10.6%
HD-C = 2 dogs and it makes 0.42%
HD-D = 0 dogs and it makes 0%
HD-E = 0 dogs and it makes 0%
Results made in Denmark, Italy, Spain, Lithuania, France, Poland, Brasil and in Germany (6).

Margo, Anita and admin without name: greate statistic, but you forget wrote here how many z Peronowki was made in Poland??? :0)
how many in Brazil...Spain :0)) And how many in CZ ??? :0))

The reselut of Aset Voodoo was in some old Club´s Magazin, try to find it.


Margo, you are big manipulator with facts and is easy to write numbers without others numbers!
I don´t have time to speaking here and lose time with fanatic, for that is impossible to accept others opinions. I know well problems of polish breeders with you, and in Europe too. Nobody has only friends :0)) You was in Italy never and I have really big doubts, that you saw Hargo, well. Please, Margo go to the Toscana and look at him well! I am smiling only of your words, nothing more is possible to do with human stupidity.

I don t want to have dogs " z Peronowki " ...Why????? I not prefer their typ...best is always Jolly z Molu Es...and I like Mery Bell z Molu Es - her head....You wanted to have dogs " Z Molu Es " not me " z Peronowki " whitch always will have blood of my dogs!

I feel envy and hate only from you and from your words and a long time. I don ´t care about you, about your dogs! I only care about my dogs and about breeding of CSWs but I ataced, never. I don´t need for my life discuss on wolfdog. org forum !! And You???
You hate...not Me.
Sorry i must care about my dogs, family, children.. ..and you can dicsuss here.

and article??? http://zmolu.vlcak.cz/cs/csv/posuzovani_exterieru.aspx
is from Mr. Hartl
foto of Hargo you can find here: http://zmolu.csvlcak.cz/thumbnails.p...=lastup&cat=-5
foto of litter " Y " z Molu Es 6 kg in 6 weeks :0) " here: http://zmolu.csvlcak.cz/thumbnails.p...lastup&cat=-42

Monika Soukupová
http://zmolu.vlcak.cz/cs/default.aspx

[massimo]

Paula: are you sure the title you gave to this thread is appropriate?
"Breed problems at Breeding?"
I will make no comments on either of the "positions" ...Just saying that if this quantity of energy was used for "better" arguments than just attacking each other, we would really be lucky, don't you think?
Maybe I can invite all parts to use a more "relaxed" approach?
I hate to say this but...be more "German"when you write and less "Italian"..
I'm sure many bad words would turn into normal ones.

About Hargo, I think Margo saw him during world dog show in Bratislava.
I agree with both, I like him very very much, he reminds me of Oilver's structure and legs and bones and character but with better colours and head (not better tail ).
Sorry I disagree he looks weaker and more feminie version of Eligo...he is not feminine at all and much stronger type than Eligo.
Would be interesting to see a "z peronowki" litter from him too, so we can compare the results!
Please...all of you...take your time to read, count to 10 and ther write.
Otherwise you will be like wild animals at the zoo growling and hissing at each other and Us, the Others, watching you entertained (I'm not entertained but sorry) eating pop-corn.

massimo

[Nebulosa]

Paula: are you sure the title you gave to this thread is appropriate?
"Breed problems at Breeding?"

No, I had no creativity in truth, if you have better idea for a title I would appreciate.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

No, I had no creativity in truth, if you have better idea for a title I would appreciate.

YES I HAVE ! way not just name it "Breeders vs Breeders" or "Breeders fighting Breeders"

Sorry I have to agree whit Rolf here "....The more I know people - The better I like my dog.... "

Best regards / Mikael

[hanninadina]

wow, heavy stuff is going on. Massimo, why you don´´t take one part of a side? You did, because you explained that Hargo is a nice csw boy. You confirmed that breeding with him and Api was a right decision.

Margo, what happened? I like you very much because you do a lot for csw and bringing csw people together. But why the hell are you fighting for years against Monika? Monika is completly right that is sounds light jealousy of you!!!! And fanatiscm! Of course she did not right here in forum, but when I read your post I was really really shocked! She did not piss at you but you did it! But it is not necessary to do this.

Of course people like Ina and Michael Eichorn has nothing else to do, but you are not so, I thought. So what is your personal problem?

Eichhorns have to keep their mouth close! They produce so much ill csw in germany, but nobody is talking about. What about Caya Zlata Paltz? She tried for years to get puppies! But nothing happend! Experienced male dogs tried to make puppies, but no puppies. Amy Zlata Paltz stayed clean several times. Did you sell her already? You have no place for her and bought new puppies, rumours says that you want to give her away? You moved your homes so often what happend?

Why did offspring of your breeding dogs died due to illness giving from the grandparents? Eichhorns you are the biggest liar in germany in case of csw!

Sorry Margo, I saw Api working several times and a dog with HD D is not able to work like this! I have a son from Api. And he is so incredible fast in movement and jumping that although I did not make hd exrays I can confirm that he is a healthy 4 year old male csw.

Margo I am very disappointed of you. Your whole breeding starts with Jolly and Merry Bell z Molu Es. I can not understand why you are acting like you do! Monika has vey succesful puppies in her whole breed. You need some more 10 years to reach her level, sorry to say!

And Monika is absolutely right, from my point of view your puppies and offspring could be more wolf like! Today my wife and me watched a movie about the yellow stone park. They showed a grey canid and my wife said oh look now you saw your wolf. I reapeted that was a coyote. Ok?

Wolves are not 65 cm. They start from 70 cm. There is so much literature about russian wolves. Please read "Wolves in Russia". Than you maybe understand that breeding around 60 cm for females and 65 for males is far away from wolf standard! And saying a csw male should be at leat 65 cm does not mean that she should be 65 cm.

And pleading for Eligio, he is nothing z Pernowki, he is z Molus es and his father. He is aggressiv like Myla and in todays world it is not good even so they have character. But it is one thing to look nice.

Please calm down. And everything you know keep it in your house and not in this forum. I talked a lot with Monika why you, Margo, attack her so much, it is totaly unnecassary.

Massimo I wish really that you sometimes would speak open about all you know. It is now a lot less than a few years ago, but you have a good well meaing opinion. But you can not keep out your opinion in all cases. You are friend of Monika. You want to be friend of Michael Eichhorn? Better not. I showed Miguel on our flight to spain what really happend in the case of Noomi. And miguel could not belive all the lies Michael told him. I hope that the time will come that you understand that you are only a puppy buyer like almost 100 others. He only talks to you becaue you know a lot, not because he is friend of you. he only uses you! The time will come when you will notice it.

christian

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Hanninadina

Sorry Margo, I saw Api working several times and a dog with HD D is not able to work like this! I have a son from Api. And he is so incredible fast in movement and jumping that although I did not make hd exrays I can confirm that he is a healthy 4 year old male csw.

As already experienced owner of working displasic dogs I can assure that you're completly wrong.
My bulldog with E hips in both sides and NO ACETABULUM is able to walk more than 20 km without show any signals of the problem, his mother with both E hips was able to work for 8 hours with the cattle running in the fields, with the need to make 30km on foot following a horse for arrives at the work place and comes back home.
You can find several cases of German Shepherds, Rottweilers and even Czechoslovakian wolfdogs displasic but completly able to work and even to pass endurance tests.
You can meet several dogs with nice and free movement but at the same time completly displasic.

And that's why that someone only can assure that their dogs are free of this ill after make the official results.

Originally Posted by Hanninadina

And pleading for Eligio, he is nothing z Pernowki, he is z Molus es and his father. He is aggressiv like Myla and in todays world it is not good even so they have character. But it is one thing to look nice.

Let me follow your mind there:
In this case Jolly z Molu Es also isn't z Molu Es, but a mix between od Bulizniko and Reolup, but Hero z Rofa its really from Z Rofa, so, in truth, Eligo z Peronowki is a Z Rofa dog, not Z Molu Es nor Z Peronowki.

But, as Hero z Rofa was selected by z peronowki for be used as Stud, and Eligo born from it, so Eligo comes from the work and studie of Z Peronowki kennel, only that already make he a real z Peronowki.
Or do you think would born a dog like Eligo if she had mate Jolly with Doran z Ponickeho Dvora?

Or may we start to say that now, all dogs are nothing than z Pohranicni Straze?


Well, I know Eligo very well and I can assure you that he is not agressive at all, he is a very equilibrate dog with tipical behaviour.
But as it isn't the first dog I saw you saying its agressive I'm start to thinking that your problem are with dogs of more strong character, sorry but CzW is a working breed tipically with strong character and must be like that, no wonder why its not for everybody.

[massimo]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

But you can not keep out your opinion in all cases. You are friend of Monika. You want to be friend of Michael Eichhorn? Better not.

I think i am old enough to choose my own friends Christian, thank you.
I never stated anybody is my friend, I have 3 or 4 friends in all my life, and if you take off my dogs only ONE is left, sorry.
I think I say my opinion even clearly even too often, and reading people "fighting" this way is a pity for all of us.
You can choose to put water on fire or to feed fire with wood. I choose the first....I don't think you do to.

[z Peronówki]

Once more for Monika and Christian and their promotion of their own style of "masculine" type of CzW ...

Just and only for you some photos of MALE (not female but MALE) wolves (not canadian, american, white, black, mamalut alike but REAL EUROPEAN) WOLVES



















Monika - you are for sure dissapointed... All of them are similar to "weak feminine jackals", right?
Christian - all of them have the size of average CzW...

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Mikael

YES I HAVE ! way not just name it "Breeders vs Breeders" or "Breeders fighting Breeders"

I would offer "Full moon"'

Wolves are not 65 cm. They start from 70 cm. There is so much literature about russian wolves. Please read "Wolves in Russia". Than you maybe understand that breeding around 60 cm for females and 65 for males is far away from wolf standard! And saying a csw male should be at leat 65 cm does not mean that she should be 65 cm.

Seems like lots of problems come from people's different image of a wolf What do the Russian wolves has to do with CzW? Or Canadian ones?.. Wolves differ even in different parts of such a small country like Lithuania (in the wild I mean). I saw a male in captivity, much smaller than my 66cm girl, but still the biggest wolf ever hunted in Lithuania was... 83 cm Thanks god, we have a breed standart and it helps us to know from what size do CzW start...

[massimo]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

I would offer "Full moon"'

Oh Yes....I agree 100%!!
I must say I like Vaiva more and more!
I couldn't sleep last night because of full moon and too clear sky...it wasn't dark at all!!

My last comment about Hargo.
Those pics you posted really suck! (can I write that word? it's not too harsh is it?)
He is still only 2 years old but structure and head are rather masculine.
He was without fur in Bratislava (as many other males) but I can meet Mario, he lives 10 mins away from me and take newer pics if you or anybody else is interested.
These are more expressive and more masculine (in the typical CSW sense, not in the Anatolian Shepherd sense) to my eyes, than Eligo, but it's only my opinion. I don't think Eligo is too feminine anyway.
http://www.wolfdog.org/pics2/2009/10...42-9908382.jpg

And here he was just 9 months old...females look much different to my experience.
http://www.wolfdog.org/pics2/2008/6/...92-2358773.jpg
http://www.wolfdog.org/pics2/2008/4/...78-8363987.jpg

[Navarre]

Nice fight, one more and the english forum will be worst of italian forum

To make peace on Earth, here to you the pics of a very nice (to me) female, mixes of everybody : Peronowki, Z Molu Es, Arimminum, Passo del Lupo, a little bit of Navarri and all shaked togheter by Riccardo "Runningwolf"










I think the end should be : don't build walls and never say never.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by massimo

Sorry I disagree he looks weaker and more feminie version of Eligo...he is not feminine at all and much stronger type than Eligo.

Sorry Massimo, but you really are tallking about THIS Hargo? I agree he is bigger than Eligo but when you have them both next to each other than you will see Hargo's head has more feminine expresion - at last it was like this when I saw him in Bratislava:

Here are the photos from the World Dog Show:

HARGO







And ELIGO - I have only two photos:





But now back to the topic - Hargo is the type of dogs which Monika criticize; NO open lips, NO hanging lips, NO visible wrazzles, NO big chest, NO short legs, NO limphatic body. No molosoid expresion typical for "true male". Accodring to this was she is showing and writing on her web page HARGO is a female, ELIGO is female and also all European male-Wolves do not have the right MASCULINE expression.... We can only thank God that breeders have their own mind and do not follow any nonsensical advises like these which she writes...

If I should choose between the molosoid type a la Asian Shepherd suggested by Monika I preffer the "jackals" ... tfu.... wolves like this: