Northern inuit dog

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by rolf

Mikael I really don`t think money is the issue, but politic is
...and as Slovakia have the patronage of the breed it is the Slovakian club who decides if or when new lines will be a reality, but I agree that it is better to prevent than to repair

Greetings Rolf

But if they have the money, what is the political problem ???
And way this delay, the sooner the better,
because this will take time to do...maby 12-16 years I think...

Best regards / Mikael

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Mikael

But if they have the money, what is the political problem ???
And way this delay, the sooner the better,
because this will take time to do...maby 12-16 years I think...

Best regards / Mikael

I think there is many problems(maybe it is just me), but here I will mention just a few of them :
Who will supervise the breeding program and have control with all puppies ? Who will have space, time and experience enough to have F1/F2/F3 puppies and to train with them and who will approve these people ? Which CSW`s/wolves/German shepherds should be used to make this new line or should there only be introduced new wolfblood ? Which F1/F2/F3 puppies should be used in the breeding(what will be the limits for exterier/character/training) and who will be jugde for this ? Should there be somekind of legal contract for F1/F2/F3-puppy owners to be a part of the breeding-program and how to make such a contract who accually will work in all countries ?

What will it help to make a new line, if some people still breed without HD-results, bonitation and according to standart without any effort to improve the breed(read post 111 by Saschia) ?

....I think it is not so easy as it might seems to be !

I think this is a little outside the thread, but very interesting

Greetings Rolf

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by rolf

I think there is many problems(maybe it is just me), but here I will mention just a few of them :
Who will supervise the breeding program and have control with all puppies ? Who will have space, time and experience enough to have F1/F2/F3 puppies and to train with them and who will approve these people ? Which CSW`s/wolves/German shepherds should be used to make this new line or should there only be introduced new wolfblood ? Which F1/F2/F3 puppies should be used in the breeding(what will be the limits for exterier/character/training) and who will be jugde for this ? Should there be somekind of legal contract for F1/F2/F3-puppy owners to be a part of the breeding-program and how to make such a contract who accually will work in all countries ?

What will it help to make a new line, if some people still breed without HD-results, bonitation and according to standart without any effort to improve the breed(read post 111 by Saschia) ?

....I think it is not so easy as it might seems to be !

I think this is a little outside the thread, but very interesting

Greetings Rolf

I think these are very good questions - they made me think of some more, too.

1. If a new wolf (or more) were introduced into the breed, how would this selection take place? I am still very new at this, so maybe this is written somewhere in the history - were the original wolves picked for certain qualities (like temperament, or health, for instance)? If so, I would think it was probably easier in the 1950's for the government of the time to select the ideal wolf to breed, than a breed club of any country in 2009. I think now, selection would be limited to only captive animals, which may have had some inbreeding/health/temperament problems already from humans. But, I don't know the laws of Europe exactly, I could be wrong.

2. In the 1950s, in the original breedings - were all offspring of the F1 breedings used? I think I remember reading somewhere, that some puppies sacrificed their lives if they were not usable. In today's more "humane" age, I don't think this would be acceptable, so this could mean large quantities of F1-F2 puppies that are "extras", and would probably need suitable homes for 10+ years minimum.

3. How would adding in more wolf genes affect legal status of the breed in all countries? In the US, for instance, wolfdogs up to F5 are considered dangerous and wild animals. Would the FCI accept this decision of a breed club willingly?

4. How do genetics act in the wild for wolves? I know with natural selection, it is very different - but I think there must be some degree of inbreeding naturally?

5. At what point are two dogs (or wolfdogs) considered genetically distant? With humans (again, in the US, this is what I know best, obviously), it is legal to marry your second cousin (your cousin's child, I think) in some states, because the risk of genetic problems is lower (maybe...). How does this compare to a purebred dog over generations?

There are many risks, in addition to many benefits to consider, I think, if this ever took place. Definitely an interesting topic!

All of the best,
Marcy

[Hanka]

Hmmmm, but why somebody can think about new wolf in breed? If do you mean wolfdogs have small "genopool", all breeders can help if they will use males from small bloodgroups. For example in Czech we needs more pups from Akenah Runar Wawanyanka, Argo Prizrak Karpat, Afis testamonium Diaboli..... etc etc. Every country can look at all males (thear pedigree from first dogs-males in population) and look - "what males ( grand grand grandfethers ) we have not in our country". It is most effective help for our breed. Not new wolves.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Hmmmm, but why somebody can think about new wolf in breed? If do you mean wolfdogs have small "genopool", all breeders can help if they will use males from small bloodgroups. For example in Czech we needs more pups from Akenah Runar Wawanyanka, Argo Prizrak Karpat, Afis testamonium Diaboli..... etc etc. Every country can look at all males (thear pedigree from first dogs-males in population) and look - "what males ( grand grand grandfethers ) we have not in our country". It is most effective help for our breed. Not new wolves.

Yes I think you are right, that is a good coner to star in...
And try to keep a low COI % and less that 50 offsprings / dog
And to do HD, work and health tests...

Best regards / Mikael

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by rolf

I think there is many problems(maybe it is just me), but here I will mention just a few of them :
Who will supervise the breeding program and have control with all puppies ? Who will have space, time and experience enough to have F1/F2/F3 puppies and to train with them and who will approve these people ? Which CSW`s/wolves/German shepherds should be used to make this new line or should there only be introduced new wolfblood ? Which F1/F2/F3 puppies should be used in the breeding(what will be the limits for exterier/character/training) and who will be jugde for this ? Should there be somekind of legal contract for F1/F2/F3-puppy owners to be a part of the breeding-program and how to make such a contract who accually will work in all countries ?

What will it help to make a new line, if some people still breed without HD-results, bonitation and according to standart without any effort to improve the breed(read post 111 by Saschia) ?

....I think it is not so easy as it might seems to be !

I think this is a little outside the thread, but very interesting

Greetings Rolf

Yes I know it will not bee easy at all and it will take time and cost money...

But I think it can and must bee done in the future...

FCI now only register breeds whit have minimum 8 different blood lines,
because of less than that will make a to small gene pool = big problems...

I was only thinking it maybe was time to start to collect the money in good time,
and maby start plan fore the future

But yes I´m far of the topic

Regards / Mikael

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Yes I know it will not bee easy at all and it will take time and cost money...

But I think it can and must bee done in the future...

FCI now only register breeds whit have minimum 8 different blood lines,
because of less than that will make a to small gene pool = big problems...

I was only thinking it maybe was time to start to collect the money in good time,
and maby start plan fore the future

But yes I´m far of the topic

Regards / Mikael

As Saschia and Hanka also is writing, I think it is more importent and efficient to have a good breeding plan for already excisting CSW`s, so maybe an international breedingkomitee for our breed would be a good idea, but this will be very difficult(if not impossible) I think ?
New lines do not help anything if people keep breeding without HD-results, bonitation and work/exterier-qualities ...sad but true

Greetings Rolf

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by rolf

As Saschia and Hanka also is writing, I think it is more importent and efficient to have a good breeding plan for already excisting CSW`s, so maybe an international breedingkomitee for our breed would be a good idea, but this will be very difficult(if not impossible) I think ?
New lines do not help anything if people keep breeding without HD-results, bonitation and work/exterier-qualities ...sad but true

Greetings Rolf

Rolf if people are prepared to work together then it would be fantastic, the health tests must be done for best selection for breeding, but if breeder in one country has lines you needed then surley an arrangment coulld be done to swap puppies to help each other, then only transport costs, but Europe is big place and can still cost? but people travel all the time, i got dog from Germany, my friend in Holland met the person half way, my friend from France met the guy from Holland half way, i got the boat to France and got my dog saving me going all the way to Germany, its called working together, unless people are willing to work together then the breed will suffer as it is already, we can produce new lines from the wolf but there are enough lines without it but they need to be supplied to those who need it to keep the breed stable, best regards pacino