Northern inuit dog

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Mikael

No I meant crossing whit Saarloos, GSD or new wolves whitaot any tests...Crossing a CsV whit labrador I think nobody will do becose there are no reasen...

But yes I know there are pedigree Saarloos whit CsV in the bood line, and that might bee good fore the Saarloos wolfhound but I do not think nobody wonts Saarloos in there CsV pedigree, if you know what I mean...

/ M

my personal opinion is only cross cwd with pure wolf to help with new blood line, and i think if put to any kennell club they will agree to this as long as you come away again by mybe 4-5 generations, but to breed to the so called inuit that after all are not even a classified breed of dog yet, but breeders have showen through there ignorance and lack of breeding knowledge that all they have produced so far after many years are dogs that now have major health problems, they have not produced type after all these years, hardly two dogs look the same yet they have a club and give a breed standard,,,,??????? so of what use could they ever be to the cwd, none at all, i brought the first czech to uk, had first litter, and all mew owners promised never to use my pups to cross breed, i spent further 5 yrs getting law changed in uk so others could own and enjoy this fantastic breed of dog, someone one day will do a cross breeding that will result in someone getting hurt or mauled and guess what dog will get the blame and once again be classed as a dangerous wild animal,,,,, you got it the cwd,,,, and now the people who cross bred wait on me to get the cwd recognised by the k.c. because if i dont register my first litter then the cwd will not get registration in uk for many many years as there will not be enough dogs, i have no interest in cross bred cwd only with wolf for to better the lines, INA and co dont agree they must think its ok to have so high percent inbreeding in the cwd lines over so short generations but it cant get better unless we have new blood lines, i bring my cwd bitchs to be mated but still the inbreeding is high on percentage, i will breed down from the wolf and my cwd but i will never regiister the pups, i will keep record only for what i do, in short time i will be back to bred true and i will show my dogs photos to all, and there will be new blood line for people interested in saving the breed, i use the european wolf only, look at the wolfdogs from different countries, there is a difference in appearence, charater and type, WHY? if all our pure cwd why is this happening to the breed? health issues will arrise in all breed but in the cwd over last 5-6 yrs look at all the topics in posts, eyes, epilepsy, dwarf, and more, the futer of the breed is in the hands of the breeders most of who are in europe SO WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT ??????????? What future plans, new bloodline? are clubs talking together to see for the future of the breed or is every one waiting till it end up to late,, this is a registered cwd ARTEMIS TESTAMONIUM DIABOLI is this within breed standard, is this the future of what is to come, the breed is declining in type rapidly throughout Europe and its all on this web site for all to see, kennel blind is not an excuse for not taking action, I REST MY CASE......pacino

[saschia]

Originally Posted by solowolf

my personal opinion is only cross cwd with pure wolf to help with new blood line, and i think if put to any kennell club they will agree to this

Pacino, no sane kennel club will agree to that in present time and circumstance. We have enough animals to breed with, and we could be much better off if only breeders would go along with a plan or at least would follow at least some rules, like using only bonitated and X rayed dogs, ideally with at least some kind of work/sports exam. The largest problem in my opinion is that in lots of countries people are just breeding their dogs as they like, but as they are not experienced judges of exterior or character, they create animals which are actually not very usable for regulated breeding, because they don't follow standard and we don't know anything about their background. And if there is even small chance that they actually used saarloos or inuit or anything else and faked the documentation, then these animals are actually out of the gentic pool available for us.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by solowolf

my personal opinion is only cross cwd with pure wolf to help with new blood line, and i think if put to any kennell club they will agree to this as long as you come away again by mybe 4-5 generations, but to breed to the so called inuit that after all are not even a classified breed of dog yet, but breeders have showen through there ignorance and lack of breeding knowledge that all they have produced so far after many years are dogs that now have major health problems, they have not produced type after all these years, hardly two dogs look the same yet they have a club and give a breed standard,,,,??????? so of what use could they ever be to the cwd, none at all, i brought the first czech to uk, had first litter, and all mew owners promised never to use my pups to cross breed, i spent further 5 yrs getting law changed in uk so others could own and enjoy this fantastic breed of dog, someone one day will do a cross breeding that will result in someone getting hurt or mauled and guess what dog will get the blame and once again be classed as a dangerous wild animal,,,,, you got it the cwd,,,, and now the people who cross bred wait on me to get the cwd recognised by the k.c. because if i dont register my first litter then the cwd will not get registration in uk for many many years as there will not be enough dogs, i have no interest in cross bred cwd only with wolf for to better the lines, INA and co dont agree they must think its ok to have so high percent inbreeding in the cwd lines over so short generations but it cant get better unless we have new blood lines, i bring my cwd bitchs to be mated but still the inbreeding is high on percentage, i will breed down from the wolf and my cwd but i will never regiister the pups, i will keep record only for what i do, in short time i will be back to bred true and i will show my dogs photos to all, and there will be new blood line for people interested in saving the breed, i use the european wolf only, look at the wolfdogs from different countries, there is a difference in appearence, charater and type, WHY? if all our pure cwd why is this happening to the breed? health issues will arrise in all breed but in the cwd over last 5-6 yrs look at all the topics in posts, eyes, epilepsy, dwarf, and more, the futer of the breed is in the hands of the breeders most of who are in europe SO WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT ??????????? What future plans, new bloodline? are clubs talking together to see for the future of the breed or is every one waiting till it end up to late,, this is a registered cwd ARTEMIS TESTAMONIUM DIABOLI is this within breed standard, is this the future of what is to come, the breed is declining in type rapidly throughout Europe and its all on this web site for all to see, kennel blind is not an excuse for not taking action, I REST MY CASE......pacino

Old post, Originally posted by Mikael
I think people are not against new blood or a blood line, but it is important that it is done by experts on CsV and mix-breeding, not by just any privet kennel that has dollar interests...

And the CsV people and clubs are not narrow like udder breeding clubs, in the CsV population new blood can bee added. How many udder breed clubs in Europe are willing to do that ??? only CsV as I know...

But I agree...WHEN ???

And way is there no CSV BLOODLINE FUNDATION for all breeders to put money into after every litter if they wont ??? maby like 5% / litter, and maby (wee) will have money to make some new bloodlines in the future...

Best regards / Mikael

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Mikael

And way is there no CSV BLOODLINE FUNDATION for all breeders to put money into after every litter if they wont ??? maby like 5% / litter, and maby (wee) will have money to make some new bloodlines in the future...

Best regards / Mikael

Did nobody think that this was a good ide ???

Or do you think that the Cz and SL clubs will pay for it ??? then dream on...

Best regards / Mikael

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Did nobody think that this was a good ide ???

Or do you think that the Cz and SL clubs will pay for it ??? then dream on...

Best regards / Mikael

Mikael I really don`t think money is the issue, but politic is
...and as Slovakia have the patronage of the breed it is the Slovakian club who decides if or when new lines will be a reality, but I agree that it is better to prevent than to repair

Greetings Rolf

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by rolf

Mikael I really don`t think money is the issue, but politic is
...and as Slovakia have the patronage of the breed it is the Slovakian club who decides if or when new lines will be a reality, but I agree that it is better to prevent than to repair

Greetings Rolf

But if they have the money, what is the political problem ???
And way this delay, the sooner the better,
because this will take time to do...maby 12-16 years I think...

Best regards / Mikael

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Mikael

But if they have the money, what is the political problem ???
And way this delay, the sooner the better,
because this will take time to do...maby 12-16 years I think...

Best regards / Mikael

I think there is many problems(maybe it is just me), but here I will mention just a few of them :
Who will supervise the breeding program and have control with all puppies ? Who will have space, time and experience enough to have F1/F2/F3 puppies and to train with them and who will approve these people ? Which CSW`s/wolves/German shepherds should be used to make this new line or should there only be introduced new wolfblood ? Which F1/F2/F3 puppies should be used in the breeding(what will be the limits for exterier/character/training) and who will be jugde for this ? Should there be somekind of legal contract for F1/F2/F3-puppy owners to be a part of the breeding-program and how to make such a contract who accually will work in all countries ?

What will it help to make a new line, if some people still breed without HD-results, bonitation and according to standart without any effort to improve the breed(read post 111 by Saschia) ?

....I think it is not so easy as it might seems to be !

I think this is a little outside the thread, but very interesting

Greetings Rolf

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by rolf

I think there is many problems(maybe it is just me), but here I will mention just a few of them :
Who will supervise the breeding program and have control with all puppies ? Who will have space, time and experience enough to have F1/F2/F3 puppies and to train with them and who will approve these people ? Which CSW`s/wolves/German shepherds should be used to make this new line or should there only be introduced new wolfblood ? Which F1/F2/F3 puppies should be used in the breeding(what will be the limits for exterier/character/training) and who will be jugde for this ? Should there be somekind of legal contract for F1/F2/F3-puppy owners to be a part of the breeding-program and how to make such a contract who accually will work in all countries ?

What will it help to make a new line, if some people still breed without HD-results, bonitation and according to standart without any effort to improve the breed(read post 111 by Saschia) ?

....I think it is not so easy as it might seems to be !

I think this is a little outside the thread, but very interesting

Greetings Rolf

I think these are very good questions - they made me think of some more, too.

1. If a new wolf (or more) were introduced into the breed, how would this selection take place? I am still very new at this, so maybe this is written somewhere in the history - were the original wolves picked for certain qualities (like temperament, or health, for instance)? If so, I would think it was probably easier in the 1950's for the government of the time to select the ideal wolf to breed, than a breed club of any country in 2009. I think now, selection would be limited to only captive animals, which may have had some inbreeding/health/temperament problems already from humans. But, I don't know the laws of Europe exactly, I could be wrong.

2. In the 1950s, in the original breedings - were all offspring of the F1 breedings used? I think I remember reading somewhere, that some puppies sacrificed their lives if they were not usable. In today's more "humane" age, I don't think this would be acceptable, so this could mean large quantities of F1-F2 puppies that are "extras", and would probably need suitable homes for 10+ years minimum.

3. How would adding in more wolf genes affect legal status of the breed in all countries? In the US, for instance, wolfdogs up to F5 are considered dangerous and wild animals. Would the FCI accept this decision of a breed club willingly?

4. How do genetics act in the wild for wolves? I know with natural selection, it is very different - but I think there must be some degree of inbreeding naturally?

5. At what point are two dogs (or wolfdogs) considered genetically distant? With humans (again, in the US, this is what I know best, obviously), it is legal to marry your second cousin (your cousin's child, I think) in some states, because the risk of genetic problems is lower (maybe...). How does this compare to a purebred dog over generations?

There are many risks, in addition to many benefits to consider, I think, if this ever took place. Definitely an interesting topic!

All of the best,
Marcy

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by rolf

I think there is many problems(maybe it is just me), but here I will mention just a few of them :
Who will supervise the breeding program and have control with all puppies ? Who will have space, time and experience enough to have F1/F2/F3 puppies and to train with them and who will approve these people ? Which CSW`s/wolves/German shepherds should be used to make this new line or should there only be introduced new wolfblood ? Which F1/F2/F3 puppies should be used in the breeding(what will be the limits for exterier/character/training) and who will be jugde for this ? Should there be somekind of legal contract for F1/F2/F3-puppy owners to be a part of the breeding-program and how to make such a contract who accually will work in all countries ?

What will it help to make a new line, if some people still breed without HD-results, bonitation and according to standart without any effort to improve the breed(read post 111 by Saschia) ?

....I think it is not so easy as it might seems to be !

I think this is a little outside the thread, but very interesting

Greetings Rolf

Yes I know it will not bee easy at all and it will take time and cost money...

But I think it can and must bee done in the future...

FCI now only register breeds whit have minimum 8 different blood lines,
because of less than that will make a to small gene pool = big problems...

I was only thinking it maybe was time to start to collect the money in good time,
and maby start plan fore the future

But yes I´m far of the topic

Regards / Mikael

[Navajo]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Did nobody think that this was a good ide ???

Or do you think that the Cz and SL clubs will pay for it ??? then dream on...

Best regards / Mikael

Can you elaborate please.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Navajo

Can you elaborate please.

Yes, I did think money might be the problem way nothing is happening,
but maby I was wrong ???

But still... some people are mad about that there is no new bloodline,
but are they ready to help ? by money or work ???

Regards / Mikael

[Navajo]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Yes, I did think money might be the problem way nothing is happening,
but maby I was wrong ???

But still... some people are mad about that there is no new bloodline,
but are they ready to help ? by money or work ???

Regards / Mikael

As in lack of money, to buy new stock in? Is that what you mean?

I think alot of people are willing to help in work and also financially to a certain extent too.

[loup-de-bretagne]

Originally Posted by solowolf

i use the european wolf only

Do you have a European wolf as well? Just curious.

[Navajo]

Paul,

I can see the logic in introducing new blood in the form of a pure European wolf to improve the breed but my only question would be, where would the high wolf content offspring end up? Obviously they wouldn't be classed as 'pets'.

I do disagree with one of your comments regarding no two inuit/inuit type dogs looking alike. One Devon breeder has definitely bred alot of very similar looking pups and dogs and often you'd be hard pushed to tell that they weren't pure bred.

[wolfin]

Sory, but now you make only mix and pet, and not help to breed, but play God.
This cann make SK club and not others. Yours dog all thime be only mix and not be real pure CSW and now and 10 or more year latter.
and You and others from UK make big eyes when breeder not wish sale for UK pupps.

[tikaani]

Originally Posted by wolfin

Sory, but now you make only mix and pet, and not help to breed, but play God.
This cann make SK club and not others. Yours dog all thime be only mix and not be real pure CSW and now and 10 or more year latter.
and You and others from UK make big eyes when breeder not wish sale for UK pupps.

i dont breed or cross breed but i want to bread mine next year, just becouse there are a few breeders that do dusnt mean we all will or do. dont tell me that there isnt any breeders out side the uk who has never cross bread . just becouse some do dont ruin it for the rest of us. seems to me u just dont want them over here for your own interests. maybe u dont get on with one or two of the breaders over here, thats your problem but dont take it out on the rest of the people over here.....

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by tikaani

i dont breed or cross breed but i want to bread mine next year, just becouse there are a few breeders that do dusnt mean we all will or do. dont tell me that there isnt any breeders out side the uk who has never cross bread . just becouse some do dont ruin it for the rest of us. seems to me u just dont want them over here for your own interests. maybe u dont get on with one or two of the breaders over here, thats your problem but dont take it out on the rest of the people over here.....

If you are not a breeder, someone else must have made this post in your name(look at the bottom of the page) :
http://www.k9puppy.co.uk/Breeders/WolfDog.aspx

Greetings Rolf

[tikaani]

Originally Posted by rolf

If you are not a breeder, someone else must have made this post in your name(look at the bottom of the page) :
http://www.k9puppy.co.uk/Breeders/WolfDog.aspx

Greetings Rolf

thats not me...... my real name is lee, tikanni is just a name i use on here and im from bedford, bedfordshire england uk. i only have 2 dogs and there both 1 year old so i wouldnt be able to of bread them , so def not me....

[saschia]

Originally Posted by tikaani

seems to me u just dont want them over here for your own interests. maybe u dont get on with one or two of the breaders over here, thats your problem but dont take it out on the rest of the people over here.....

Well, for myself I can say that this would not be true. I don't have other breeding interests, than to give pups to good hands and to see my pups as parents of next generation.
But I must say that sometimes I am not sure if I like wolfdogs being bred in other countries - the reasons I stated before - there are pups produced from parents who do not correspond to the breed standard, there are wolfdogs which are shy and not able to be among people, and there are people who breed with other breeds or even mixes/wolves and falsify the parentage of ther pups, and I am not sure if I can trust them.

So I have mixed feelings - on one hand, I am very happy that people around the world appreciate this breed's great qualities (and consider them positive as I do), that there are people willing to spare a lot of time and money to be with these creatures, but on the other hand I am scared where they are taking it later. I actually don't understand why some countries like Slovakia or Czech republic have strict breeding rules (which are put upon us from the kennel union representing FCI), while in other countries people can do what they want and still their papers have the same value for public as ours.

[Navajo]

Surely if they don't meet the requirements of the breed standard, before the mating of such dogs takes place, the clubs should make it clear that anything bred from those will not be registered. If the offspring are not registered, there is little or no point at all in breeding from them.