Saarloos Wolfdogs - Canadian or European Wolfdogs?

solowolf · 16-12-2008, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philippe

Hi, all,

The answer to this question is quite simple (!).

To avoid any misunderstanding, you need to contact Mrs Cornelia Keizer, who own all original notebooks written by Mr Saarloos, and ask for a copy of it! Then, there will be no more doubt!

Philippe

the type of wolf is not mentioned in the original manuscripts just by its name only, i have full copy of original manuscripts written by Mr Saarloos,,,,,,,pacino

nanouk · 16-12-2008, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by solowolf

the type of wolf is not mentioned in the original manuscripts just by its name only, i have full copy of original manuscripts written by Mr Saarloos,,,,,,,pacino

do you mind sharing.. Bertus has a rather large collection, the nvswh does, marijek offcoarse does and corrie does...
would be interesting, think specially to bertus, to have your collection as well, might complete the picture

solowolf · 16-12-2008, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by nanouk

do you mind sharing.. Bertus has a rather large collection, the nvswh does, marijek offcoarse does and corrie does...
would be interesting, think specially to bertus, to have your collection as well, might complete the picture

i have same copy as Marijek and Corrie but if you want copy send address by private mail and i will burn cd for you regards pacino

nanouk · 16-12-2008, 23:28

thank you

my adress is nanouk immers
zwanewater 1
2715 bg
zoetermeer
NL

I will be willing to pay costs for shipping !

nanouk · 16-12-2008, 23:32

Quote:

That means there are not more than 1000 dogs worldwide, that breed in at least 2 clubs that don´t talk to each other and don´t exchange dogs as far as I am informed.

that information is a little outdated... look at the database, tunka troy timberly, hohene, lupus ljarkow, diesel, solo all NVSWH used outside their population...not eveyone is stuck in the past..some are looking forward rahter than being stuck in otherones quarrels that are in the past

Jennin Lauma · 18-11-2010, 02:18

Most of the posts on this topic are allready several years old, so I just HOPE you have done your homework about wild wolves within these years, and learned that there are NO adult pure wolves with blue eyes; it is a dog trait and usually seen in wolfdogs that are mixed with Huskies.
I truly hope none of you base your knowledge of wolves on what you see in calenders or at some random internet pages.

In this crazy world there are zoos that have wolfdogs as "wolves", and I have books about wolves, that show pictures of Northern breeds & wolfdogs. And even a book about dog breeds, that shows Alaskan Malamute with blue eyes (a heavy built show type Husky in the pic

).
There are lots of false information out there, but people who have really done their homework and research about wolves & canines overall, also know WHERE to look for the CORRECT information.
I must say I find it quite worrying that there are breeders of wolfdogs (FCI recognized and non-recognized) who obviously lack even basic knowledge of wolves.

The "forest brown" coloring of the SWD has always been a question mark to me; -were it came from? I am still wondering... and searching the answer to this.
Genetically it must be similar to the "liver" color, which is caused by a gene that makes the eumelanin pigment cells, that normally produce black pigment, to produce "reddish" pigment instead. Atleast concluding the lighter pigmentation also on nose & lips etc (not only hair), which would not be the case if the reddish color would be phaeomelanin (it affects only on hair color, not skin).
http://abnormality.purpleflowers.net...cs/pigment.htm
Huskies have similar color with white markings like the SWD.
http://www.huskycolors.com/red.html
But if SWD has never been mixed with Huskies, and originates only from cross breeding of GSD & wolf, then the gene must have come from the GSD (there are liver colored GDS's, but they are quite rare and considered as fault in the FCI breed standard) and is combined with the gene for white markings;
in other words: the parts of the coat (& each sigle hair) that would "normally" be black, are liver colored, but the white markigns are the same.

I'd suppose the liver color in GSD is that rare, that the lines & individuals carrying the gene are pretty well known?
I might be wrong though, I'm no expert on the GSD lines. But if I'm right, then I'd assume it would be possible to track the individual in SWD history that introduced the liver gene into the breed. Otherwise I would not exclude the possibility that there have been cross breeding with some other breed(s) too, carrying the liver color gene.

I look forward to some genetic studies about wolf & wolfdog breeds colors.

yukidomari · 18-11-2010, 02:44

As long as this thread is alive again, I would like to say that it is circulated in studies that black coats and blue eyes in wolves are likely vestiges of prior crosses with dogs, whether known & purposely done by man or not.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/02/blackwolves/

These are traits that have been reintroduced into wolf population.

18-11-2010, 02:18	#6
Jennin Lauma Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Finland Posts: 66	Most of the posts on this topic are allready several years old, so I just HOPE you have done your homework about wild wolves within these years, and learned that there are NO adult pure wolves with blue eyes; it is a dog trait and usually seen in wolfdogs that are mixed with Huskies. I truly hope none of you base your knowledge of wolves on what you see in calenders or at some random internet pages. In this crazy world there are zoos that have wolfdogs as "wolves", and I have books about wolves, that show pictures of Northern breeds & wolfdogs. And even a book about dog breeds, that shows Alaskan Malamute with blue eyes (a heavy built show type Husky in the pic ). There are lots of false information out there, but people who have really done their homework and research about wolves & canines overall, also know WHERE to look for the CORRECT information. I must say I find it quite worrying that there are breeders of wolfdogs (FCI recognized and non-recognized) who obviously lack even basic knowledge of wolves. The "forest brown" coloring of the SWD has always been a question mark to me; -were it came from? I am still wondering... and searching the answer to this. Genetically it must be similar to the "liver" color, which is caused by a gene that makes the eumelanin pigment cells, that normally produce black pigment, to produce "reddish" pigment instead. Atleast concluding the lighter pigmentation also on nose & lips etc (not only hair), which would not be the case if the reddish color would be phaeomelanin (it affects only on hair color, not skin). http://abnormality.purpleflowers.net...cs/pigment.htm Huskies have similar color with white markings like the SWD. http://www.huskycolors.com/red.html But if SWD has never been mixed with Huskies, and originates only from cross breeding of GSD & wolf, then the gene must have come from the GSD (there are liver colored GDS's, but they are quite rare and considered as fault in the FCI breed standard) and is combined with the gene for white markings; in other words: the parts of the coat (& each sigle hair) that would "normally" be black, are liver colored, but the white markigns are the same. I'd suppose the liver color in GSD is that rare, that the lines & individuals carrying the gene are pretty well known? I might be wrong though, I'm no expert on the GSD lines. But if I'm right, then I'd assume it would be possible to track the individual in SWD history that introduced the liver gene into the breed. Otherwise I would not exclude the possibility that there have been cross breeding with some other breed(s) too, carrying the liver color gene. I look forward to some genetic studies about wolf & wolfdog breeds colors. __________________ -Jenni- http://jenninlauma.weebly.com Last edited by Jennin Lauma; 18-11-2010 at 02:21.

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16-12-2008, 23:28	#4
nanouk Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 208	thank you my adress is nanouk immers zwanewater 1 2715 bg zoetermeer NL I will be willing to pay costs for shipping !

18-11-2010, 02:44	#7
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	As long as this thread is alive again, I would like to say that it is circulated in studies that black coats and blue eyes in wolves are likely vestiges of prior crosses with dogs, whether known & purposely done by man or not. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/02/blackwolves/ These are traits that have been reintroduced into wolf population.