Crying Wolf - kennel

jasmine · 12-12-2008, 13:21

so, I will tell you a story about HD examinations: one Xray was examined in CzehRep and got HD/C...the same Xray was sent to Poland and got HD/A, the same xray was sent to Slovakia and got HD/A and this xray was sent to my vet and got HD/D!!!!!!After this case no worth to talking about Hd results......

Another things: inbreeding and linebreeding is not the same...and please write me what is your problem with my consaguinity? Have I got ill dogs? Are my pups die very early?Have you got any other defects? More than from other breeders? I think no........and why write that I use always high consaguinity? I couldn't see strong relativities inbetween Geri and Demon or Quenno and Demon, or Ali and Rubin or Argo and Queety and I could continue.......
I breed for my taste,for my fun.....and fortunately there are a lot of people who like my dogs!!!!

admin · 12-12-2008, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasmine

so, I will tell you a story about HD examinations: one Xray was examined in CzehRep and got HD/C...the same Xray was sent to Poland and got HD/A, the same xray was sent to Slovakia and got HD/A and this xray was sent to my vet and got HD/D!!!!!!

Which dog? Could you write the name so we can check it?
Thanks in advance!

hanninadina · 12-12-2008, 22:58

It is nothing new, that the poland HD results are the most best in the world. I know this for 10 years from the briards - french herding dogs -.

Christian

admin · 13-12-2008, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina

It is nothing new, that the poland HD results are the most best in the world. I know this for 10 years from the briards - french herding dogs -.

I think it depends...
I know that sometimes Dutch CzW breeders sent their results to Germany because they get better results than in Holland (HD-B in Holland and HD-A in Germany). But I know also about REAL dogs (not imagined cases) which were checked in Holland with HD-B and in Poland with HD-C.
I know dogs with hips which were HD-D in Czech Republic and HD-A in Italy (it was for a long time the reason why many dogs with HD-C or worser were sold to Italy).
BUT I know many dogs which were HD-C in Czech Republic and were still HD-C in Poland, which were HD-D in Czech Republic stayed HD-D in Italy...

I Germany you have only one judge which can official evaluate the X-rays so the results are similar. But in Holland, Czech Republic, France, Poland you have more judges which make it and don't be so astonished that there are differences between two countries when you can see VISIBLE differences between vets in one country. In German forum you can fnd some stats Margo made and the difference between two Czech vets were about 30% and between Sterc and some other it can be maybe even 50% (what mean: other vets give 50% more HD-A results that for example Sterc).

I know, every breeder say his country has the best results and the vets make the strongest evaluations. And it is not possible to make any statistics because many data is missing and many data hidden. But all we can do is to look which results have dogs in a country and to compare which results have dogs from the same country in other countries.

Jasmine said Hungary has the best evaluation, hanninadina say Poland has the worstest. So we can compare it:

- in Germany there are three dogs checked for HD from jasmines' kennel. The parents are, according to the Slovakian and Hungarian vet, HD-A and HD-B. Lets see the results of the offsprings imported to Germany.
The BEST results has hanninadina's female Myla. It is HD-B1. The other results which the dogs get are HD-C and HD-D.

- now let's take the dogs living in Germany but imported from Poland. The parents seem to be similar evaluated as in the case first case - according to the Slovakian and Polish vet thay have HD-A and HD-B. Now compare the results of their offsprings made in Germany and evaluated by german vet.
The WORSEST results they get is HD-B1. And all other are HD-A1 and HD-A2.

Conclusion is visible and easy to make:
The HD-evaluations of the parents made in Poland are COMPARABLE to the results of the polish dogs imported to Germany.
BUT
The HD-evaluations of the parents made in Hungary are VISIBLE BETTER than the results of the hungarian dogs imported to Germany.

And we can make the same stats with the same countries (with the same results and conclusion) for Italy and France....

I'm sure the same topic will came back soon and another breeder will say "In my country are the strongest evaluations of the hips" BUT sometimes the stats say something else....

jasmine · 13-12-2008, 16:57

hmmmm
Margo,
In this case I think it is doesn't matter of the name of the dog/breeder/owner .......and it is a REAL CASE.....

Pzemek,
We both know that I have sent much more HD certification to you than you put to the database...moreover there are some wrong results.....aaaand I'm just wondering have you ever seen the HD certification about the HD/D dog in Germany??? Because I haven't seen it.............so for me a little bit strange that you put some fals and incorrect results, some of them without official certification, but don't put some results though I have sent the official certifications such as: Juma,Myra,Galiba,Volos and I could continue.....most of all about my all breeding dogs.....
So make calculation with fals and missing results....hmmmmmm......

Anyway: I have never sad that hungary would have the best evaulation...but I could tell you that my vet is strict. And a little bit strange that we start with the same bloodlines, and in Hungary or Czeh Republik are very bad results...but some other countries are almost just excelent dogs.......so I'm a little bit sceptic, sorry.........

Mikael · 13-12-2008, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasmine

Anyway: I have never sad that hungary would have the best evaulation...but I could tell you that my vet is strict. And a little bit strange that we start with the same bloodlines, and in Hungary or Czeh Republik are very bad results...but some other countries are almost just excelent dogs.......so I'm a little bit sceptic, sorry.........

I think you just named the BIG PROBLEM !!! "my vet is strict"

But how can we trust that she/he is ???
And how can we trust that all vets in your country are stict ???
And how can we know that somebody do not pay for a good result ???
Or knows the vet personally ???

I think we can only trust HD results from contrys whit a HD committee !!!

Best regards / Mikael

jasmine · 13-12-2008, 23:42

In my country are two HD committee.....my vet is the member in one of them. The protocol is: he makes x-ray (with chipnumber and noseprint), make a pre-examination for me and send to the X-ray to the Orthoped Committee. We get back the results and the complex certification. The committee send the results to our kennelklub too,and it will be booked there.
In the committee are more veterinars (the best orthoped surgerons), and we could never know who will make the examination.

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12-12-2008, 13:21	#1
jasmine Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 188	so, I will tell you a story about HD examinations: one Xray was examined in CzehRep and got HD/C...the same Xray was sent to Poland and got HD/A, the same xray was sent to Slovakia and got HD/A and this xray was sent to my vet and got HD/D!!!!!!After this case no worth to talking about Hd results...... Another things: inbreeding and linebreeding is not the same...and please write me what is your problem with my consaguinity? Have I got ill dogs? Are my pups die very early?Have you got any other defects? More than from other breeders? I think no........and why write that I use always high consaguinity? I couldn't see strong relativities inbetween Geri and Demon or Quenno and Demon, or Ali and Rubin or Argo and Queety and I could continue....... I breed for my taste,for my fun.....and fortunately there are a lot of people who like my dogs!!!!

12-12-2008, 22:58	#3
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	It is nothing new, that the poland HD results are the most best in the world. I know this for 10 years from the briards - french herding dogs -. Christian

13-12-2008, 16:57	#5
jasmine Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 188	hmmmm Margo, In this case I think it is doesn't matter of the name of the dog/breeder/owner .......and it is a REAL CASE..... Pzemek, We both know that I have sent much more HD certification to you than you put to the database...moreover there are some wrong results.....aaaand I'm just wondering have you ever seen the HD certification about the HD/D dog in Germany??? Because I haven't seen it.............so for me a little bit strange that you put some fals and incorrect results, some of them without official certification, but don't put some results though I have sent the official certifications such as: Juma,Myra,Galiba,Volos and I could continue.....most of all about my all breeding dogs..... So make calculation with fals and missing results....hmmmmmm...... Anyway: I have never sad that hungary would have the best evaulation...but I could tell you that my vet is strict. And a little bit strange that we start with the same bloodlines, and in Hungary or Czeh Republik are very bad results...but some other countries are almost just excelent dogs.......so I'm a little bit sceptic, sorry.........

13-12-2008, 23:42	#7
jasmine Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 188	In my country are two HD committee.....my vet is the member in one of them. The protocol is: he makes x-ray (with chipnumber and noseprint), make a pre-examination for me and send to the X-ray to the Orthoped Committee. We get back the results and the complex certification. The committee send the results to our kennelklub too,and it will be booked there. In the committee are more veterinars (the best orthoped surgerons), and we could never know who will make the examination.