Kazan z PS line - back to GSD?

[massimo]

I'm really surprised to read certain comments about Kazan.
I mentioned him on purpose just to see what reactions would have followed.

Surely he was ugly, bad character...
The slovaks didn't want to use him, but... Was it that crazy old Hartl who insisted to use him? who should we blame for this idea? Hartl?
what would have happened if he didn't insist on using Kazan?
well...many dogs wouldn't have been born for sure.

In particular I invite you to look up these pedigrees....on fourth generation there is Kazan.
http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/dbase/p166-5.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/dbase/p164-5.html


they are just examples...but strong examples.
I could put many others...but these have "most meaning" at the moment.

Some of what we consider today the best CSW around have in their blood Kazan.
The entire Peronowki kennel would probably not be as it is today without Kazan.
Look up fifth generation
http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/dbase/p1346-6.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/dbase/p1181-6.html

I am sorry...but sometimes crazy ideas "may" not be so crazy after all....
I am happy Hartl didn't listen to the slovaks in the end...I am happy that Peronowki Kennel exists with some of the best CSWs around.

...I wonder if there will be somebody writing the same things as I am doing now in 10 years about "other" crazy ideas?

I don't know, all I know is that I am too small for all of this...I sit aside and look, observe, wait.
massimo

[Margo]

Originally Posted by massimo

they are just examples...but strong examples.
I could put many others...but these have "most meaning" at the moment.

Some of what we consider today the best CSW around have in their blood Kazan.
The entire Peronowki kennel would probably not be as it is today without Kazan.

Massimo, I know my dogs have Ayak (and sometimes Kazan) as almost all Czech (and many Slovak dogs)... It is not what I mean...

You post Reolups - thanks God although there is blood of Kazan and Ayak they go all more to the direction to be more similar to REP z PS And it is their power and it is the reason why they were so huge help for the Czech CzW population

What I'm telling is: if you see anyUNTYPICAL CzW with short legs, open lips, heavy head, long tail, black mask you can almost BE SURE the dog has strong influence of Ayak z Vlamy and/or Kazan z PS. "THANKS" to these dogs we have problems with untypical look of the dogs (of course I don't want to pass over the wrong selection made by some breeders ).

I show you what I mean:

- let's take JOLLY



She has blood of Ayak BUT see the numbers: she has almost 5% of REP z PS (who was a very typical dog) and only 1% of Ayak z Vlamy.

Now take for example this dog:



This dog has only 3.5% of REP and almost 2% of Ayak...
See the "difference"?

I can show you more or much more... Also by the HD results... But we can disscuss it when we will meet us in person - here on forum I would have to show examples and it will afflict people and their dogs and it is not the point...

Anyway basing on the words of people which were in the board of the club on both sides it was like this:

To a very good looking population (but stronly inbreeded) of CzW was added a new line - Kazan z PS. Slovaks didn't accepted it. So it developed the division which till TODAY is visible also when reading this forum and it is reason why we have Slovak (more wolfish) and Czech (more dog looking) lines. I heard that during the first years the difference was so HUGE that Czech dogs were not able to get nothing better than "very good" note during the club dog shows (what made their breeders crazy and started the stories about "nationalistics Slovaks"). Now the differences are no more visible so much. Why? See the pedigrees - Czech breeders were fighting witht the unwanted German Shepherd Dog look using extremly often two SLOVAK dogs: Gar z Rosikova and Ikar z Krotkovskeho dvora (both of them were strong inbreeded on REP z PS)...

So first the good look was destroyed by adding the new line of Kazan. The excuse was that there is too much inbreed on REP z Ps. But after this new line was added the damage Kazan made was cured by..... adding a lot of blood of REP z PS....