Czech Mutara-Gate

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by massimo

THIS IS ANDREA/MONIKA ANSWER:


Armin's mother is Gerda z PS (PS è means Pohraniční stráže, boarder guard) his father comes also from PS Libějovice ; unfortunately Hrach really doesn't know his name because when he took the puppy it was in order to make him grow up with the wolf and didn't care about anything else,....
-Concerning HD, Dr Sterc is one of the most severe in the world, maybe it is useless but we still stay with him.
Int the last years very little quantity of CSW are A or B in CZ.
If we go to make Xrays in Poland a HDC in CZ was considered perfect A
We have various examples: some time ago I was with Mrs. Nekvasilova in poland with Qeron. I wanted to compare the results because vet said they were ok and Sterc said they were D!
We also brought Ohnivak who was HDC and doctor in poland said they were really good Xrays.
What must we think, one says a dog is healthy and another says he is ill. Who is right? Who can judge them?

However the hybrids are judged buy Sterc as A and B
Both the females are above the average of wolfdogs in CZ.
It would be stupid not to mate them and observe how things evolve.
But we don't want to observe only F2 but the development and variations from F1 to F4. this wasn't done 50 years ago because HD was not monitored.

Sorry, but as a veterinarian that is a breeder too I have to write something about it. I can´t follow this argumentation.
There has allready a lot of longtime research about HD-Genetics been done in the past. We allready know enough about how to decrease HD in a breed. Therefor the Mutaraexperiment is absolutely unneccesary.
The FCI classification for HD-x-rays is clear for every country. If I have such a big variation in classification, for me, as a person who is used a little bit to proper research-systhems, the normal way to go would be first to take a big amount of x-rays and let them be judged by official vets in several countries, especially in countries that are known to be quite strikt, like the ones in the nothern part of Europe. And I don´t mean to take the dogs there, I´me talking about sending the same proper taken x-rays (dog beeing sedated until musclerelaxation, legs properly streched and rotated inwardly).
If Dr. Sterc differs from most other countries, she may be strict but not good and experienced enough to do the job, I change the Veterinarian and that´s it.
If Dr. Sterc doesn´t differ I use the help of a genetic adviser (that isn´t involved with anybody in the club!!!) to set up a breeding program to increase the situation.
Looking at HD results all over the world inclusive countries that are quite strikt the situation of the whole breed isn´t that bad that you have to get into uncontrolled breeding experiments with two parents that are of unknown origin (even Monika says that nobody knows the name of the father of Armin) or a wolf from another continent.
If you really decide you need knew GSH or wolfblood in the population you should take your time to set it up properly, with extremly good selected parents. There are several stud dogs all over the world that are HD-free out of lines that are almost not used in czech breeding so far, it would be much more sensible to use this dogs first and it would give me the time to set up a experiment like Mutara in a proper way instead of head over heals if I really come to the conclusion that I need it.

They are not a menace for anyone and for real CSW lovers as an insurance for this Ing. Hartl's name should be enough, he created the breed.

I am a real CSW lover and for me no ones name is an insurance for such a secretly kept experiment. And Ing. Hartl didn´t create this breed all alone for himself, there have been other people joining him in this process, some of them are Slovakians and the Slovakian club is the one that is the garantee of the breed, nobody there got informed about registration and experiment.
For me an experiment that is set up this way and therefor the involved dogs too are a menace. I live in a country that reacts quite hysteric about wolfs and has dangerous dog lists.

-It's not true that I made bonitation alone. Ing. Hartl was with me, he was key person and without him they could not be selected. Other present people were Ing. P. Laufkova as member of Club. other people not from club were present (even Andrea that is writing)

I joined a bonitation with a constillation like this, Mr. Hartel was there, but in my opinion Monika was the key person.
By the way, the way the character test was done and the character of the dogs was bonitated, the next problem we will very likely have to solve is genetically fear aggressiv dogs.

-Why do Hybrids provocate so much hatred, they are not an illness.

Nobody hates them, we just don´t like the experiment they are misused for.
What nobody talkes about: Wolfhybrids of the first generations cause a lot of severe problems and they don´t really start with it before they are fully and socially mature - with 3-4 years, so problems with Mutaras can still occure.
Both bitches are said to be pregnant, that means about 10 new problems. Who is supposed to keep the dogs that are not used for the experiment, who is supposed to keep the next generations??? The army won´t be there for keeping and selection, do they want to put the puppies down they can´t use?? Have they till now even thought about it??

- For what artificial insemination is concerned, if you manage to take sperma from wolf, documentating the thing, please let us know...instead, inseminating the shewolf, who will let us? ZOO? Zoo obviously could not accept. Even if they would, we should do it under narcotics. But it's easy that the dog would be stressed and not be pregnant. We took in consideration all variants, but to do something is not so easy as to write them. Simply when Hrach informed us about the litter (both subjects corresponded generally to our request to monitor HD) we took the occasion, there is nothing else under that.

Male wolfs don´t produce fertile sperma out of breeding season, if you find a Zoo that lets you do this you could get Sperm from a male wolf under anesthisia then. If you use modern narcotics and do the semination at the right point of ovulation you can use a female wolf.
If you want to mate wolf and dog it normally is necessary that they grow up together a breeding project of this importance should have the three years of time this needs. There are European wolfs available on the market like there are Canadian wolfs. Crossing European wolfs with dogs has been managed before many times, it will work again, it just needs some planing and time.

It seems to me that you appreciate a lot the work from Slovaks but why do you think if they worked so well (i have nothing against slovaks) why has thei puppy production decreased so drastically?)

Like Margo I appreciate the work from both countries. I asked Dr. Sona Bognarova, member of the Slovakian club and club judge, Andreas question, her answer was: compared to the situation 10 years ago they have less puppies/year, compared to the situation 5 years ago they don´t have a decrease. Compared to 10 years ago they have less breeders because breeding, if you do it properly costs a lot of money, the country has gone through great economic changes.
I personally don´t understand why that has anything to do with the quality of the breeding work of a country unless you think that puppyproduction is something positiv.

Ina