de Louba Tar kennel

[Azazel]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi Barry, my posting is meant to do all you say puppy mills must be stopped any info on ANY puppy mills please send it to me and action will be taken as soon as hard evidense is made available, read my posts and see why i had to wait a long time, as for Mrs Keizer she can now after reading my posts if she likes Take me to court, i know if someone slandered me like this and it were not true i would,,, wouldnt you? we wait in anticapation for reply from Mrs Keizer or her llegal representitive, and have no fears at all of seeing her in any courtat any time, pacino

Dear (Al) Pacino,

Haha... why.. should SHE.. take YOU to court?
Oh please... i think you give yourself to much credit here....

Maybe it's better not to get yourself involved in slander, and enjoy the dogs you have yourself. There's better ways to spend your time i think.

Best Regards,
Barry

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Hi,

sorry folks, but this is a forum for Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.
I'm more concerned about, although Paul's pics still look disgusting to me, is the fact that Ms Keizer has turned the CSW's coming from her different kennels within 12 years or so into a type of dogs which are hardly CSW's according to the standard. Both in character and phenotype.
Many of them look and behave very Saarlooslike.
Either something happened on purpose or she is just a pathetic breeder.
And doesn't know much about CSW's.
The latter I can prove through a personal talk at a dog show.
But I think the first two points are a topic worthy to be discussed on this forum, since our breed is unfortunately involved.
What I, as a breeder and lover of CSW's definetely not want is the character and the not counted diseases of many Saarloos Wolfdogs.
Even purebred CSW's are not free of health problems as often written.

Michael

[GalomyOak]

Hello,

Off topic, but in reading the posts, it made me curious - other than the tempermental, and hip dysplasia issues, what other problems are found in the Saarloos?

Thanks,
Marcy

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by wildenmorgen

Hello,

Off topic, but in reading the posts, it made me curious - other than the tempermental, and hip dysplasia issues, what other problems are found in the Saarloos?

Thanks,
Marcy

Two different kinds of PRA (Progressiv Retina Atrophie), one kind linked with a Cerebellumdegeneration and Epilepsie. All of them rezessiv, what is a problem if there are CSW with crossed in Saarloos because it would be realised quite late.

Ina

[Joswolf]

HD is not really an issue, looks like we got it from the TWH. PRA is something what we are working on but with a small population this is not easy. A bigger problem is the inbreed depression, smal litters or no pups at all or dead born puppys.
Jos

[nanouk]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Two different kinds of PRA (Progressiv Retina Atrophie), one kind linked with a Cerebellumdegeneration and Epilepsie.
Ina

HI Ina, do you base that assumption on Garou loup and littermates or do you actually have information from a specialist. If so please name that specialist, this information might be important.
Sofar, all i know is that the SWH shows 2 kinds of PRA, one late onset ,one early onset. The dogs with early onset that i know don't show signs of cerbellumdeg or epilepsie, dito ofcourse for the ones with late onset!

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by nanouk

HI Ina, do you base that assumption on Garou loup and littermates or do you actually have information from a specialist. If so please name that specialist, this information might be important.
Sofar, all i know is that the SWH shows 2 kinds of PRA, one late onset ,one early onset. The dogs with early onset that i know don't show signs of cerbellumdeg or epilepsie, dito ofcourse for the ones with late onset!

I did not write they show signs of cerebellum Epilepsie but of Cerebellum Degeneration. The Epilepsie is seperate of that.
I know that of several breeders and owners from Germany and Holland, the case of Cerebellum Degeneration that I know the owner personally was as far as I remember diagnosed in the University Vet Clinic of the Justus-Liebig-Universität Giessen. Which did a DNA-Research too. I don´t know your dog and I don´t know his littermates , so I can´t tell you if they are one of the problem dogs, but there are more Saarloos than yours or the littermates of your dog. Those problems are openly discussed since a very long time and I am always astonished how few communication there is between the different countries in the Saarloos world and the fights there are between Clubs and breeders or owners. The last thing I was told was that the two PRA types occure seperately in the Dutch Club and the German Club . As a vet I am interested in all news about inherited diseases but as Michael wrote before this is a CSW-Forum not a Saarloos one.

For me those genetic diseases are definitly a reason why I would highly apriciate if we would get proofed informations if the rumours about CSW with Saarloos-blood are right or not. This would give future problems to our breed and though I agree with Jos that it is of no benefit for the Saarloos if Saarloos with CSW-blood would be thrown out of the register am I not thinking that it is the right way to help the health status of one breed on cost of the other breed.

Ina

[nanouk]

I did not write they show signs of cerebellum Epilepsie but of Cerebellum Degeneration.

neither did i
(just rered what i have written)

.
My information about the "nebenerscheinungen" in SWh with PRA on a early onset is from this site, or bettter said, the owner C Schroder: http://freenet-homepage.de/whitefang/d0_garou.htm Would be interesting to know if we speak about the same litter or if you know of another case with similair disease pattern!

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Hi,

sorry folks, but this is a forum for Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.
I'm more concerned about, although Paul's pics still look disgusting to me, is the fact that Ms Keizer has turned the CSW's coming from her different kennels within 12 years or so into a type of dogs which are hardly CSW's according to the standard. Both in character and phenotype.
Many of them look and behave very Saarlooslike.
Either something happened on purpose or she is just a pathetic breeder.
And doesn't know much about CSW's.
The latter I can prove through a personal talk at a dog show.
But I think the first two points are a topic worthy to be discussed on this forum, since our breed is unfortunately involved.
What I, as a breeder and lover of CSW's definetely not want is the character and the not counted diseases of many Saarloos Wolfdogs.
Even purebred CSW's are not free of health problems as often written.

Michael

hi, yes we can see what happens from this kennel, we have seen the dogs at shows in Europe, major problem because if they are appearing at shows it means they are being REGISTERED AS CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOGS ........being bred from, pups being sold to unweary people , it must be stopped,,,,,,paul

[Joswolf]

Paul, you do not apply to my writing. I still ask myself what your motivation is and who you work with. This SWHclub want's to protect theyr own puppy sale. And as i said a personel vendetta. My organisation is there to protect SWH and hybrides and wolves. I still see no proof. I there for ask myself if it is that bad. And i ask myself what you are doing is this good for the SWH.
Jos

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Hi,

sorry folks, but this is a forum for Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.
I'm more concerned about, although Paul's pics still look disgusting to me, is the fact that Ms Keizer has turned the CSW's coming from her different kennels within 12 years or so into a type of dogs which are hardly CSW's according to the standard. Both in character and phenotype.
Many of them look and behave very Saarlooslike.
Either something happened on purpose or she is just a pathetic breeder.
And doesn't know much about CSW's.
The latter I can prove through a personal talk at a dog show.
But I think the first two points are a topic worthy to be discussed on this forum, since our breed is unfortunately involved.
What I, as a breeder and lover of CSW's definetely not want is the character and the not counted diseases of many Saarloos Wolfdogs.
Even purebred CSW's are not free of health problems as often written.

Michael

hi Michael, good post, so as i know lots of people see these dogs and they are different, want to know something, i know most of these dogs and all have pedigree and are registered as czechoslovakian or saarloos wolfdogs, this means they will be used to breed to other czechoslovakian and saarloos thus destroying type temperament and health in both breeds,, waken up breeders in europe, these dogs are being bred into our breeds, it is there for all to see just open your eyes, look at the breeders she works with and you see also the non standard dogs, and they are being bred and sold all over europe, paul

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by azazel

Dear (Al) Pacino,

Haha... why.. should SHE.. take YOU to court?
Oh please... i think you give yourself to much credit here....

Maybe it's better not to get yourself involved in slander, and enjoy the dogs you have yourself. There's better ways to spend your time i think.

Best Regards,
Barry

thanks for the advice but if you dont mind i will still go ahead with the legal action in Holland and put an end to this puppy mill and all the other breeders involved with it,, i do enjoy my dogs but at least i know where they were born and registered not like a lot of people who bought dogs from this puppy mill,