de Louba Tar kennel

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by jasmine

A lot of person among us was very young (or maybe hasn't been alived yet) when Cornelia started to deal with saarloose and csw. Her first profil is the saarloose and please look after the results of the big dogshows.....her dogs are always on the top.
The only thing what we could do to study from her!!!!!! and RESPECT her!!!!

Dog shows mean NOTHING. Especially if the titles are given by judges, who are her friends, or judges, who know nothing of the breed at all.

Originally Posted by jasmine

Edit Molnar / kennel Crying Wolf

PS: please remember that it could be brought an action for liber against those who write fault things....
and I'm realy envy that a lot of people has got a lot of time to write this forum but it would be better if they go to deal with thier dogs inspite of this!!!!!!

You are right. So please, start at your own kennel. Cause I´ve heard also some very bad rumours about dogs who come from your kennel...

[Joyce]

I was very amazed when I was reading this topic.
A friend of mine has two dogs from this kennel and I can asure you that they were in good condition when he got them!
These two dogs have very good manners, looking great, are in good shape and are kindly to people they know.
When a breeder loves to have their dogs a bit thin is that forbidden?? Its up to the new owner to keep it that way or to change it, if dogs are to fat you have lots of trouble to get them on a diet.
In the reaction of mrs. Keizer I understood that you, Paul, left 7 dogs with her when you went to Spain! So if this person is not good to her dogs why did you left them with her in the first place? And how about your concerns to the dogs? Did you not have any concerns when you left your dogs with her? Strange ain't it, because when it its to your personal benefit, you do not mind to leave your own dogs with you.
In my personal opinion you have a personal vendetta against this breeder, so please keep it to yourself or to the person involved instead of doing some backstabbing on a public forum.
The pictures shown could be have taken at any kennel, because we never see a name sign or something only some kennels. You stated you have pictures of the kennels you build yourselve there, they were made in summer and you used them for your own promotion, so be a man and show them also to everybody here.
The breeder is much concerned with the dogs, much more than to her own concern, when people who can not cope with the dogs because of their strong temper, spirit and caracter she always takes them back instead of leaving them to theirselves! And this was also in the time you were there I'm sure!!
What I find very strange is that it took you 18 months to go away and also a long time to put all this at the forum. If you are that concerned with the dogs in my opinion I never should take that much time to expell this breeder, so that is also a bit strange ain't it??
Your excuse that you were afraid of the French autorities is also a bit week, these autorithies are still the same so the risk for the dogs still there is the same!

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Joyce

I was very amazed when I was reading this topic.
A friend of mine has two dogs from this kennel and I can asure you that they were in good condition when he got them!
These two dogs have very good manners, looking great, are in good shape and are kindly to people they know.
When a breeder loves to have their dogs a bit thin is that forbidden?? Its up to the new owner to keep it that way or to change it, if dogs are to fat you have lots of trouble to get them on a diet.
In the reaction of mrs. Keizer I understood that you, Paul, left 7 dogs with her when you went to Spain! So if this person is not good to her dogs why did you left them with her in the first place? And how about your concerns to the dogs? Did you not have any concerns when you left your dogs with her? Strange ain't it, because when it its to your personal benefit, you do not mind to leave your own dogs with you.
In my personal opinion you have a personal vendetta against this breeder, so please keep it to yourself or to the person involved instead of doing some backstabbing on a public forum.
The pictures shown could be have taken at any kennel, because we never see a name sign or something only some kennels. You stated you have pictures of the kennels you build yourselve there, they were made in summer and you used them for your own promotion, so be a man and show them also to everybody here.
The breeder is much concerned with the dogs, much more than to her own concern, when people who can not cope with the dogs because of their strong temper, spirit and caracter she always takes them back instead of leaving them to theirselves! And this was also in the time you were there I'm sure!!
What I find very strange is that it took you 18 months to go away and also a long time to put all this at the forum. If you are that concerned with the dogs in my opinion I never should take that much time to expell this breeder, so that is also a bit strange ain't it??
Your excuse that you were afraid of the French autorities is also a bit week, these autorithies are still the same so the risk for the dogs still there is the same!

hi, my dogs were left with one of corries friends called Henery who lives in Reims, so that rules that one out,,, i have also explained why i stayed 18mth and also why it has taken so long to bring the photos out, its all in previuos posts, i have no personal vendetta, so you say dogs come back with stong temper, spirit or caracter, This is because no one had time to socialise the pups as there was to much work with the 100 plus other dogs ,, some of the photos are in pens i built.. i have nothing to hide, my wife and i also spent some of our own savings on material,,, all the photos were taken at de louba tar kennels they are now part of the evidence that the authorities have, you must thing i am stupid to make false photos then give them as evidense, if you think the dogs in the photos are A BIT THIN , a bit thin is an under statement now have another look before you write any more silly remaks, the dogs look like something that has been abandoned and running the streets for 3 mths living of scraps,, in uk you would be arrested for having animals this thin,, my friends who came to wittness these dogs cried when i showed them around the kennels, NO ANIMAL DESERVES TO LIVE LIKE THIS AND I CONDEM ANYONE WHO THINKS OTHERWISE, PAUL

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Furyous

PICS show in this forum ? ok dogs not best coat /look skinny ...

Are you veterinarian or student? I think not, so you're not able to valuate the health of these dogs nor by photos.
Anyone who know a little bit how shoud look like a healty dog see that these dogs are really under wheight!!! That is not only "she like skinny dogs" these dogs seems starving, photos cannot be the perfect way to judge details about dogs when we see the breed quality, thats almost because we not see the dogs move so we cannot have much idea about his angles as have some proficional photografers who are able to hiden little problems, after all photos are used for some breeders for judge theys litters quality in some ways, but this situation is completly different of that was show here and so, this excuse is not valid for save the skin of a bad breeder.

You can easy see by fotos all the rib's of the dogs, the coxal bone and the collumn what need more for say that these dogs really have problems and need quickly a good treatment?! If someone here touch these dogs will see the size of the problem, we can already see the bones by photos when have the coat hiden that ( too the summer coat), you probably will be able to study bones anatomy touching then! The dogs body condition won't seems worsers because raining or not, is possible value by the photo that Mirka do, and the dog was in show.

Originally Posted by Furyous

adult reaction is for me do with legal authorities what yu think but not write like propaganda

So you really think that someone will do that on public without have already all right with the law? without have real proof's? or who knows, as you supose first, only for 'vengance'?
Back to the reallity, if someone do that without all right and real proof's will be condemn for calumny and defamation.

[Joyce]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Are you veterinarian or student? I think not, so you're not able to valuate the health of these dogs nor by photos.
.

Strange....because that it exactly wat has happening in this topic all the time by everyone and especially Paul: valuate the health of these dogs by photos......

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Joyce

Strange....because that it exactly wat has happening in this topic all the time by everyone and especially Paul: valuate the health of these dogs by photos......

I think that you must read complet for understand the point

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Anyone who know a little bit how shoud look like a healty dog see that these dogs are really under wheight!!! That is not only "she like skinny dogs" these dogs seems starving, photos cannot be the perfect way to judge details about dogs when we see the breed quality, thats almost because we not see the dogs move so we cannot have much idea about his angles as have some proficional photografers who are able to hiden little problems, after all photos are used for some breeders for judge theys litters quality in some ways, but this situation is completly different of that was show here and so, this excuse is not valid for save the skin of a bad breeder.

I means that suposed because only lack someone arrive here saying that is completly normal CzW look like an anorexic Azawak's and that these dogs are healty and happy and that they're a little bit fat, that what we see not exist and that it was the fothos who makes they seems like that, that all that is a fothoshop work or product of our imagination.

[Joyce]

Originally Posted by pacino

so you say dogs come back with stong temper, spirit or caracter, This is because no one had time to socialise the pups as there was to much work with the 100 plus other dogs

What I was saying is that if people who took a dog of this breed, not normally think they have such a strong breed. So they can not cope with the breed themselves. They made the wrong choice by taking such a dog and were more better to have another dog like a golden retriever or something. If you choose for a czech you need to know enough of the dog to cope with it. People do not often know that. By that time the dogs always can go back to her. So this has nothing to do with socialise the pups. They most socialise when they are with their new owner, if they can cope with the dog no problems at all, as I can see with the two dogs my friend has from this breeder.

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by Joyce

So this has nothing to do with socialise the pups. They most socialise when they are with their new owner, if they can cope with the dog no problems at all, as I can see with the two dogs my friend has from this breeder.

No, the socialising MUST start at the breeder already. The most important socialising period window is opened only from about 5 to 12 weeks of age of the puppy. That´s too short time to ignore the pups psychical needs and just leave it to the new owner, especially if he/she is inexperienced.

Not to mention, that nobody should sell CSW to owner, who cannot cope. Sure, mistakes happen and we cannot always guess, what will happen in future, but mass producers and puppy mills are known to sell to anyone to make profit, ignoring the welfare of the pups. Saying that the pup can always go back, if things don´t work, is rather horrible. Sure, it is nice if it can, but it should be only in critical situations, not as a rule. Such master changes are terrible for such inteligent dog as CSW.

[Joyce]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

No, the socialising MUST start at the breeder already. The most important socialising period window is opened only from about 5 to 12 weeks of age of the puppy. That´s too short time to ignore the pups psychical needs and just leave it to the new owner, especially if he/she is inexperienced.

Not to mention, that nobody should sell CSW to owner, who cannot cope. Sure, mistakes happen and we cannot always guess, what will happen in future, but mass producers and puppy mills are known to sell to anyone to make profit, ignoring the welfare of the pups. Saying that the pup can always go back, if things don´t work, is rather horrible. Sure, it is nice if it can, but it should be only in critical situations, not as a rule. Such master changes are terrible for such inteligent dog as CSW.

You must be very educated or certain if you can see somebody who cannot cope a CWS and then do not sell a CWS to this person. Normally a pup will give not the main problem, but usually the dogs that are have their puber period.
I think that mw. Keizer is not up to mass production to sell CWS to make a profit. Every money she get from selling a CWS is always going back in to the kennel. And if she was, than there will be not as many dogs as Paul let believe us in her kennel.

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by Joyce

You must be very educated or certain if you can see somebody who cannot cope a CWS and then do not sell a CWS to this person. Normally a pup will give not the main problem, but usually the dogs that are have their puber period.

Please, read my post very carefully, before replying. I said:

Not to mention, that nobody should sell CSW to owner, who cannot cope. Sure, mistakes happen and we cannot always guess, what will happen in future, but mass producers and puppy mills are known to sell to anyone to make profit, ignoring the welfare of the pups.

I disagree that the new owners can easily cope with a puppy than with teenage dog. I´ve heard from other breeders about puppies given back at age of 2-3 months, because the new owner found them too wild, too aggressive , too temperament... The pups were normal, but the new owners were not able to cope, perhaps with a labrador, maybe. Yes, second stage is the teenage dog, but once the owner made it up to here through all the destroyed furniture, eaten shoes, socks and kitchen utensils, there´s chance he´ll stand by his dog.

Originally Posted by Joyce

I think that mw. Keizer is not up to mass production to sell CWS to make a profit. Every money she get from selling a CWS is always going back in to the kennel. And if she was, than there will be not as many dogs as Paul let believe us in her kennel.

Are you kidding? So you say, that she keeps 119 dogs in kennels built for 49 for the love of the dogs? Sorry, but I don´t believe it, even if there was actually less than 119 skinny dogs. Even owning 49 dogs for me and breeding on them is not for me breeding for love, care, health and improvement of the breed, but for money. In this I agree totally with what Ina and Annomon said here.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Joyce

What I was saying is that if people who took a dog of this breed, not normally think they have such a strong breed. So they can not cope with the breed themselves. They made the wrong choice by taking such a dog and were more better to have another dog like a golden retriever or something. If you choose for a czech you need to know enough of the dog to cope with it. People do not often know that. By that time the dogs always can go back to her. So this has nothing to do with socialise the pups. They most socialise when they are with their new owner, if they can cope with the dog no problems at all, as I can see with the two dogs my friend has from this breeder.

why do you keep making me embrasses you on line, if you think socialisation starts with new owner then it must be done different where you live,, it starts much sooner i can assure you, paul

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

You are right. So please, start at your own kennel. Cause I´ve heard also some very bad rumours about dogs who come from your kennel...

Please try to deal with your own things and look around your own hause!
I'm just wondering what could be the reason why you always have to attact somebody, why you always drop with shit. ????? I'm just wondering.........
As I remember we have never met,we have never talk and you have never visited my kennel........and I hear a lot of roumors too but I just believe what I see...and don't care about the people who are talking stupid things....

[miihar]

I think this forum is for everybody to express their own opinion. So it's quite normal to attack one another here. But anyway I think it is very important that these matters are discussed here, whether good or bad. And the discussion can be endless, of course. You can criticize one another's breeding manners, but it of course it breaks my heart if somebody, the above mentioned kennel, for example, is mistreating dogs. I don't know what's the truth, but Paul seems to be on good cause. Private matters are private, why bother come here and try and solve them...

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by jasmine

Please try to deal with your own things and look around your own hause!
I'm just wondering what could be the reason why you always have to attact somebody, why you always drop with shit. ????? I'm just wondering.........
As I remember we have never met,we have never talk and you have never visited my kennel........and I hear a lot of roumors too but I just believe what I see...and don't care about the people who are talking stupid things....

My dear, I am not attacking anyone here, and I am certainly speaking with nicer manner, than you are.
I never said I´ve met you (though I did), I never said I´ve visited you (and I don´t wish to) and sure, we did not talk (and I am happy we did not, seeing your way of expressing yourself).
All I said, is that I´ve heard some rather disturbing rumours about your kennel, which, if they are true, make me think you are not the right one to tell us how to breed and treat our dogs. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anyone can visit me and my dogs anytime and see how they live and how we take care of them. Only you won´t see any pups here, cause we are not breeding on dysplatic dogs.

And as this topic is about Louba Tar, I don´t see any reason on continuing this off-topic discussion, especially not in this tone and manners.

[furyos]

Well y think that response from mrs C .keizer open mind but people prefer things rumor that the truth ....what is the real pb ????? PICS show in this forum ? ok dogs not best coat /look skinny ...ok y can say that my dog furyos when he fall in love can loose 2/3 /4 kg and stop to eat ...and when it s rain look very very dirty (and he live with lot comfort in 2 houses...big flat-loft in paris 300m2 front" butte chaumont park(45 hect)"the week and a big house in north country the week end ...not good argument for people who never try to visit "loubatar" or "crying wolf "kennel ...Y DO and y m so happy to meet both woman so so good in mentality and do what they have in their mind ....wolfish look in their selection race ...YES Y LOVE (and y repeat ....Y M PROUD about this ...) wolfdog who have wolfish look and not german shepherd look ...that 's all ...for me and my vision is that ...BUT Y RESPECT IF SOMEONE PREFER DO WORK/ CANICROSS ...ECT .... ECT .... no pb the world is big enought to have yur ideology ....well y never see dog sick or with any problem in their kennels .....y think allways in this forum yu try to discredited kennels(few weeks ago it was passo del lupo ...when for an other one????) THIS IS POLITIK REACTION IN THIS FORUM!!!!!! Y REPEAT BREEDER IS NOT MY JOB (y win enought money without this passion) BUT PLEASE STOP YUR BAD DISCUSSIONS ...Y THINK PEOPLE inteligent enougth when they go to visiting a kennel to see if their futur pupps are in a good one or not... y trust in edit molnar and y win a lot of competition with her dogs ...(y know somepeople say it s not important but y never do show before buy crying wolf merlin and know anybody/ juge.///ETC....)y thing that this forum "smell hypocriate feeling" ....Rona ..sorry if yu imagine my reputation can became bad after say that y trust someone ;;;but don't remember first and second war in the pass :informing is not my mentality ...Y ' M FRENCH GUY AND PREFER FEEL FREE !!!!!Y DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE ;;;;;Y LOVE MY DOGS AND DO WHAT Y LIKE WITH THEM show /BREDD / SPORT ETC ETC .....VIVA LIBERTAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!DON'T FORGET FRENCH ARE FIRST IN REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!NO WAR FOR ME AND Y BELIEVE IN REPUBLIK MODELS AND FONDMENT(Y HATE "PROPAGANDA")...IF JUSTICE AND AUTORITY DO HIS WORK ....THEY HAVE GOOD REASONS TO DO ;;;;;;;;Y HOPE THAT IT 'S MY LAST POST NOW !!!! a lot of work in this season for me ..... TAKE CARE EVERYBODY!!!!!!!FURYOS.......

[Navarre]

Originally Posted by furyos

in this forum yu try to discredited kennels(few weeks ago it was passo del lupo ...

French guy, please speak only about things that you know : nobody discredited PdL; PdL discredited himself using and registering in book of origin a truly mix (maybe GS / timber wolf/ csw) as a csw

About the theme of thread : I saw some very ugly Kaizer-type csw after a big rainfall. But the cages are big, much bigger than the ones of many other so called breeders in Italy, Slovakia, Czech rep.

Dear mr. Pacino, you should put in the court many more italian, slovakian or Czech "breeders" and owners that keep dogs closed in a smaller kennel all day long!

Or - better- you can solve your VERY PERSONAL PROBLEM with Mrs Kaizer out of this forum.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Navarre

About the theme of thread : I saw some very ugly Kaizer-type csw after a big rainfall. But the cages are big, much bigger than the ones of many other so called breeders in Italy, Slovakia, Czech rep.

Dear mr. Pacino, you should put in the court many more italian, slovakian or Czech "breeders" and owners that keep dogs closed in a smaller kennel all day long!

Or - better- you can solve your VERY PERSONAL PROBLEM with Mrs Kaizer out of this forum.

hi so you are a moderator on this site, i will be glad to have any kennel you can tell that is not correct listed and reported to the authorities, i need hard evidence, photos with land marks, or statments from people who will state what they know in court of law, there are plenty of groups in europe who will take on and deal with these things, it is sad that you are moderator for you show me disrespect as i tell all you people of the horific conditions at de louba tar, i think you dont want to know about how these poor animals have to live and from your discusting attitude you sound like you dont give a dam?/ it is not personal as there are many people involved in this and many many statements from lots of people in europe who know this is true, this forum is to discuss a topic i think my topic is of great importance to all dog lovers and breeders alike i am sorry you are not one of them,,paul

[Navarre]

Sorry Mr. Pacino, but you photos don't signify much to me :

1) some dogs are thin (some not) but I always see Kaizer dog's in some important dog shows and they are always so skinny...I think she won't show them if they are ill dogs. I think judges should recognize ill dogs.
Ok, they are very ugly csw but it's not a crime.
In a photo mrs. Kaizer seems to show proud his skinny dog ? Is she crazy ?

2) small number of dogs in cages, max. 2 dogs in a large kennel. So no over numbering.

3) no shit or other similar visible in photos : seems that they keep them clean, even when it's raining.

Personally I agree that I never will keep so many dogs closed in cages, but as far I know many breeders (or puppy producers) keep dogs in this manner. Is just a question of numbers.

I don't know the real situation. Of course I can trust to you (but as I said, your photo aren't a clear evidence of guilty) but I can trust too to other French people that visited the kennel and now don't think about this the same of you.

Where is the truth ? I think only you and your old time friend Mrs. Keizer wiil know.

[Joyce]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi so you are a moderator on this site, i will be glad to have any kennel you can tell that is not correct listed and reported to the authorities, i need hard evidence, photos with land marks, or statments from people who will state what they know in court of law, there are plenty of groups in europe who will take on and deal with these things, it is sad that you are moderator for you show me disrespect as i tell all you people of the horific conditions at de louba tar, i think you dont want to know about how these poor animals have to live and from your discusting attitude you sound like you dont give a dam?/ it is not personal as there are many people involved in this and many many statements from lots of people in europe who know this is true, this forum is to discuss a topic i think my topic is of great importance to all dog lovers and breeders alike i am sorry you are not one of them,,paul

Discusting attitude..... and you started the post by asking for evidence and photos. Who has a discusting attitude then??
Mr Pacino, do what you have to do, but use a forum for discussion and not for backstabbing people or accusing them from discusting attitude if they are not agree with you! You are getting annoying us!

[Rona]

Originally Posted by furyos

..Rona ..sorry if yu imagine my reputation can became bad after say that y trust someone ;;;but don't remember first and second war in the pass :informing is not my mentality ...Y ' M FRENCH GUY AND PREFER FEEL FREE !!!!!Y DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE ;;;;;Y LOVE MY DOGS AND DO WHAT Y LIKE WITH THEM show /BREDD / SPORT ETC ETC .....VIVA LIBERTAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!DON'T FORGET FRENCH ARE FIRST IN REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!NO WAR FOR ME AND Y BELIEVE IN REPUBLIK MODELS AND FONDMENT(Y HATE "PROPAGANDA")...IF JUSTICE AND AUTORITY DO HIS WORK ....THEY HAVE GOOD REASONS TO DO ;;;;;;;;Y HOPE THAT IT 'S MY LAST POST NOW !!!! a lot of work in this season for me ..... TAKE CARE EVERYBODY!!!!!!!FURYOS.......

Thanks for your explanations! I understand your point now: any (French?) breeder is a free person in a free country (France?). Within this freedom every (French?) breeder may let their dogs suffer but noone should or even have the right to check their conditions or intervene in emergency. In other words: you love your dogs, but don't care about the fate of other (French?) people's dogs...

***
What a highly informative discussion this is! Real views of people and their genuine attitudes are brought out into light... So far I know one thing: I'd never buy a dog bred at Furyos kennel - I just woudn't trust him as a breeder, nor as a human.

***
I only hope that not all French breeders share such views....