CWD character?

[Blitzen]

Hello, I'm newly registered on this forum and this is my first post, so please be gentle with me . I've spent many hours reading this site and posts on this forum and there is so much good information here.

Over several years I have grown to love the sound of this breed, although I don't own one, so I'd like to know if I could actually live with one rather than admire them from afar. As a bit of background, I come from a working line GSD background and am currently training an east german gsd bitch in Schutzhund. She has her BH and we are working towards a Sch 1. So I am used to the GSD temprement.

If I were to get a CWD it would be in a few years time to replace my current dog as a sport dog when she retires. Now I realise that a CWD has a different temprement from my readings here, and it would probably not be a 'natural' at schutzhund like the gsd, and probably won't be competitive, but would it enjoy doing schutzhund together even if we don't win any prizes? I am not particularly competitve and just want to have fun and give my dog a 'job' which would develop our bond.

Also, my dog goes everywhere with me: visits family, comes to the restaurant and shops which allow it, on holiday etc. and I would like the wolfdog, with training, to do the same. We go on walking/trail holidays and I have the pleasure of having a well behaved, reliable off lead dog now. Can the CWD be obedient/reliable off lead, or is it too independent to be trusted, even with training?

And then the most difficult question: I am used to training gsds - I use the ball as the motivation/reward, together with food sometimes - Will CWD work for a toy as a reward if they have been brought up to play like this, or do they not care so much for toys? Do they enjoy playing fetch with a ball? If not, how would I have to modify my training method to suit a CWD?

Sorry about the long post, so many questions . . . Thank you to anyone who answers.

[Gypsy Wolf]

I come from a working Schutzhund background as well, and I can say, at least in my experience, the CsV is somewhere between the GSD and Malinois in energy level and intensity. Of course, I have a bitch puppy, and it's likely the males are a little more laid-back and sweet.
I use toys for reward as well and my CsV girl is just fine with that - and at just 15 weeks old! Food is good, too, but she seems to "last longer" in training with a prey toy rather than food.
I have both Malinois and a highline GSD, the CsV is less "sharp" than a Mal, but it is higher drive than my GSD - probably quite a lot like your working line GSD - that's what my CsV reminds me of, actually. She is extraordinarily "bitey" very prey-driven and has a very natural calm full grip - something highly prized in SchH. She is much more "serious" than my GSD, so expect some civil drive as she matures. This is not a breed for the average home, but an excellent choice for a working home - especially one with experience with workingline GSD.

[soniakanavle]

In regards to training methods, my CsV is very food AND toy motivated but I would say food would be number one, especially for a 'high value' treat, such as meat or cheese, you will have their rapt attention. [Though I just taught my 5 year old male 'high five' in about 30 seconds for one lousy Milkbone so anythings possible lol.] And he does LOVE a good squeaky toy!!
My GSD was wayyy more toy motivated though, she would do anything for her tennis ball or stick and would do what I asked of her for a treat as well but then wouldn't even take the treat [or take it an spit it out lol.] Wolfdogs want the reward more than the sheer pleasure of satisfying you I think.
They're a very intelligent and energetic [and awesome] breed and I think they would excel in Schutzhund or any job you give them.
Good luck with your wolfdog dreams!!

[Blitzen]

Thanks for the helpful replies so far!

Luna's mum, do you think that Luna will be as responsive as a gsd to the control element on the Schutzhund field after her drives have been built up eg running the hides, outing the sleeve etc? Has teaching the obedience element eg retrieve been more challenging or if you haven't got to that stage do you anticipate it being more challenging than a gsd? Don't mind having to work harder to train my dog, just want to be prepared!

Also I was wondering how these dogs do in everyday walks off leash, are they a challenge to keep close to you, recall? I think I am right in saying they would be harder work than gsds in this respect, but are they as independent as eg huskies off the lead?

[soniakanavle]

Originally Posted by Blitzen

Also I was wondering how these dogs do in everyday walks off leash, are they a challenge to keep close to you, recall? I think I am right in saying they would be harder work than gsds in this respect, but are they as independent as eg huskies off the lead?

Haha harder than a GSD for sure but nowhere near a flighty as a husky!! You're right on spot.
I keep mine on a leash at all times in city of course but let him run free whenever we're out in the country in a SAFE place. [I live in the northwest and don't want a rancher mistaking him for a wolf. It's legal to kill them up here, so sad. ]
He has a pretty good recall but definitely gets that wild look in his eyes in the woods like he wants to stay there forever lol but he always comes back to me and hops in his truck so I trust him off leash. Work a lot with your pup when it's young though to get a really reliable recall though, I think that's true for any breed.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Blitzen

Also I was wondering how these dogs do in everyday walks off leash, are they a challenge to keep close to you, recall? I think I am right in saying they would be harder work than gsds in this respect, but are they as independent as eg huskies off the lead?

We live in a big city, but we're lucky because near our house there is a huge common - a 50-hectare meadow, where people take their dogs to socialize them with other friendly dogs.
We've been taking there our girl almost every day since we've got her and she has lots of dog and human friends there. Here are photos from 2009 where you can see how she interacted with dogs of various breeds. http://picasaweb.google.pl/rpaszkows...aCronicle2009#. These are from 2010:
http://picasaweb.google.pl/rpaszkows...aCronicle2010#

The photos aren't very good technically and rather boring , but I suppose they might be good material for a behaviourist or for somebody who is interested in all dogs' and particularly vlcaks' body language and interaction patterns.
Of course, when Lorka was little we worked a lot on the recall and it wasn't easy at all; probably due to the fact that she was extremely friendly and not shy at all - the 'kamikaze' sort of pup that loved playing with all dogs, even the rottweilers at which owners of other "Blonia dogs" panicked , but when I now call her she comes without any problem, though at Blonia not always as fast as we would wish. The command works much better in other, less familiar places. I suppose dogs treat Blonia as their playground and to certain extent this factor spoils their obedience, but we analyzed our priorities and decided that good socialization was more important for us than perfect, exam- type obedience.
Here is another link to photos of vlcaks meetings in our city: http://picasaweb.google.pl/rpaszkows...lcaksMeetings#

Of course I wouldn't let her off-leash in the streets (I'm more than sure she'd run to her beloved Bernese blindly ) but our other vlcak, Tina [*], started walking everywhere unleashed by our side when she was around 11.

[hanninadina]

Nice pictures, but have polish people only have big dogs? Looks like. Rona, isn´t your csw not a young one about now 1,5 year old?

I am asking this because seeing this pictures people who does not know the breed csw can belive that they are always without problems with other dogs on dogplaygrounds. In the german forum we just discuss this and the majority wrote that getting adult the csw is not playful with other dogs. Pavel wrote in concrete the only pack for your csw is your own pack. That must be said, csw with the age from around 2,5, 3 years are not able to play with others dogs, they do not like them.

I am wondering that an adult csw will be playful on toys. I can not belive. But Blitzen there are "working" lines in csw. CSW which their owners do work Schutzhund and other things. Good choice and good luck.

Christian