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Dharkwolf · 13-04-2006, 00:12

Oh my you really are getting into a very difficult topic here.

First of all a word of warning – be careful of the photos you chose to look at. While certainly there are wolfdogs which have a darker colour than average, I have no doubt that the last photo which you showed actually does not show the true colours of the dog (all that burned background makes me think of colour distortion and bad exposure and white balance)

So first thing – don’t trust photos, particularly those on wolfdog, to give you the true colours of the Wolfdogs (I guess I’ve just made your quest a lot harder huh?)

Ok starting from there – you also need to look at Wolfdog fur itself so as to understand better how it looks. Genetically you will have to distinct factors –

1) Factors which affect pigment production
These will determine the colour of the fur of wolfdogs – For the CSV there are only two colours which I have ever seen – Tan and wolf-grey. All the shades of wolfdog can be explained simply by the combination of those two colours – which in molecular terms are likely to correspond to two separate dyes (in fact I am certain that the wolf-grey is actually melanin, not sure what causes the lovely tan colour though, probably a variant of melanin)

2) Factors which affect the distribution of the pigmentation.
These are distinct factors which will determine where the fur will be coloured. The typical example in wolfdog is the black mask, or not – but there are many other areas of the wolfdog which have subtle changed in the pigmentation – notably the ears, the withers the underfur etc. Another thing which is interesting is that I have never ever seen a wolfdog with dyed underfur – it is always white or cream (ok to be honest often muddy – but that’s got nothing to do with the original colour of the fur!) Genetic factors which influence the actual distribution of pigmentation (the phenotype) are going to be rather harder to pin down because it is likely that a single factor may influence pigmentation in several areas of the wolfdog.

The example which you cite for huskies is interesting and it gives you a starting point – however I am not certain which of the many factors cited are relevant to wolfdogs and which factors are present in wolfdogs and not in huskies (the two breeds are in fact quite different in pigmentation – despite the numerous times when people stop to ask if my CSV’s are huskies!)

All that to say – interesting to study the genetics of wolfdog pigmentation but I must ask why? (guess I’m curious) I am also very troubled by some of the terms you use. I know that sable was cited in that husky site concerning some kind of yellow pigment, however normally sable is considered to be a black colour – very deep black colour in fact. Maybe I’m just showing my ignorance on the colouring nomenclature of dog coats, but I do find the way you use sable for everything to be very confusing.

Right… did that make sense now?

13-04-2006, 00:12	#2
Dharkwolf Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Brussels Posts: 201	Oh my you really are getting into a very difficult topic here. First of all a word of warning – be careful of the photos you chose to look at. While certainly there are wolfdogs which have a darker colour than average, I have no doubt that the last photo which you showed actually does not show the true colours of the dog (all that burned background makes me think of colour distortion and bad exposure and white balance) So first thing – don’t trust photos, particularly those on wolfdog, to give you the true colours of the Wolfdogs (I guess I’ve just made your quest a lot harder huh?) Ok starting from there – you also need to look at Wolfdog fur itself so as to understand better how it looks. Genetically you will have to distinct factors – 1) Factors which affect pigment production These will determine the colour of the fur of wolfdogs – For the CSV there are only two colours which I have ever seen – Tan and wolf-grey. All the shades of wolfdog can be explained simply by the combination of those two colours – which in molecular terms are likely to correspond to two separate dyes (in fact I am certain that the wolf-grey is actually melanin, not sure what causes the lovely tan colour though, probably a variant of melanin) 2) Factors which affect the distribution of the pigmentation. These are distinct factors which will determine where the fur will be coloured. The typical example in wolfdog is the black mask, or not – but there are many other areas of the wolfdog which have subtle changed in the pigmentation – notably the ears, the withers the underfur etc. Another thing which is interesting is that I have never ever seen a wolfdog with dyed underfur – it is always white or cream (ok to be honest often muddy – but that’s got nothing to do with the original colour of the fur!) Genetic factors which influence the actual distribution of pigmentation (the phenotype) are going to be rather harder to pin down because it is likely that a single factor may influence pigmentation in several areas of the wolfdog. The example which you cite for huskies is interesting and it gives you a starting point – however I am not certain which of the many factors cited are relevant to wolfdogs and which factors are present in wolfdogs and not in huskies (the two breeds are in fact quite different in pigmentation – despite the numerous times when people stop to ask if my CSV’s are huskies!) All that to say – interesting to study the genetics of wolfdog pigmentation but I must ask why? (guess I’m curious) I am also very troubled by some of the terms you use. I know that sable was cited in that husky site concerning some kind of yellow pigment, however normally sable is considered to be a black colour – very deep black colour in fact. Maybe I’m just showing my ignorance on the colouring nomenclature of dog coats, but I do find the way you use sable for everything to be very confusing. Right… did that make sense now?