[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by furyos

margo ...y m agree for health/caracther/beauty in same group ...work is an other way to selection ....agillity / pistage or ring ... owners can choose their way ... y work all the time socialisation in city and different situations .... pupps arrive after in different home and work is not finish for them....

One explanation - when I'm talking about the "CHARACTER" of the dog I do not mean the socialization and future work of the owner but the GENES (what the dog has "inside"). While breeding Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs the breeders must take care that the dog has the POTENTIAL to be working dog. It doesn't matter if the future owner want a dog as family member, for shows or for work. The character MUST be the same by all the dogs.

I will explain you what I mean...

1 case.
Let's take a few CzWs from a GOOD kennel with good genetics. Some new owners will work with the dogs and pass many or some exams. Other will have the dog as family member and do nothing so the dog will be stable but will not have any exams and will not hear to the commands. Some of the puppies will be kept in kennels with no socialisation - they will become shy or will be not very stable... I see no problem in this case because people who were thinking about working with the dog have dogs which have the right character - they CAN work with them.

2 case.
Let's take a few CzWs from a BAD kennel with bad genetics. Some dogs will be family members - they will be shy but the owners do not care about it. Some of them will be kept in kennels and will be extremly shy. Some of them will be buyed by people for work - and what will happen? The new owners will be NOT ABLE to reach something with the dog because the BAD CHARACTER is already a "genetic" fault. I saw such cases in Czech Republic where it is the best visible: people who we can describe almost as "experts" in this breed (who passed many exams with CzW) buyed dogs with bad genetics (most of them were from abroad - from countries where breeders do not care for the character). Do you know what happend? Such experienced owners were not able to handle their new dogs - the dogs were so shy that it was almost not possible to work with the dogs. So now they are not passing ANY exams because THEY CAN NOT even if they will like to do it...

I tell you another case: a breeder with a VERY BAD dogs (according their character) advertised their puppies as "great for work" so some people buyed such dogs for search and rescue training, canistherapy and obedience training. Do you know what happend? ALL of the owners HAVE to give up because you can not FIGHT with the genetics. Sure you can make good socialisation, work with the dog and train it. But if you have a dog which is GENETICALLY unable to work you will not be able to change it...

Another example: my friend is tracking trainer in France. She wrote me some time ago she has a very good tracking CzW in the Search and Rescue group but the dog will be NEVER a working animal. What was the problem? The owner buyed a CzW from Italy and was thinking about working with it professionaly. The person made one but BIG mistake - buyed dog from a kennel which do not care for work and character. So the dog was a CzW with a very good instinct but was so extremly shy that it was not able to work in a group of people and the dog was too affraid to track after other people (the female was scared of people she didn't knew).

It is exactly the problem we are talking about. Many breeders warp the character of the dogs their breed (they make such wrong selection) that their wolfdogs can not be described as WORKING breed. Even if there will be someone who want to work with the dog, who will make the right socialisation such person will reach NOTHING. Maybe it will be possible to pass a basic obedience exams in calm surroundings but the person will be neve able to reach something really important...
I can assure you but there are really LINES of wolfdogs which I and noone who cares for the character will ever use. Why? Because some lines almost "guarantee" you that almost the whole litter you will get will consists of extremly shy puppies which will stay shy in the future EVEN if you will find good owners which care for the dog correctly... And it is not only about shyness. There are lines which are for example lymphatic - some breeders use such dogs because the puppies are calm and lazy but it is also not possible to work with such type of dogs because they hate to move and do anything.

Originally Posted by furyos

well 2 month is not enougth for caracther (all breeders know that)but part of responsability is in futur owners too ...

Sure you can not take responsibility for the future owner and a dog with the best genetic closed for the whole time in the kennel will never have good character

...BUT... (my favourite word )

the first two months are EXTREMLY important and have influence on the whole life. We have friends working with other dog breeds and their favourite words are: "I'm mostly doing good what the breeder screwed up"... I will not repeat the whole theory of the develepment of the puppies but in many cases mistakes made by the breeder are not possible to be made good in the future. Exactly at breeder's home the puppies learn to be family members, to live and work with people. They learn to be members of the human family. I saw many puppies from many litters and you would be shocked how huge are the differences between puppies which were growing up in a kennel with other dogs and puppies which had contact with the breeders from the beginning or even lived with him at home.
In the first case you will see puppies which are interested only in other dogs and people are for them stange animals (in many cases such puppies are very affraid for people). In the second case you will have puppies for which people are friends and "pack members". It is really HUGE difference visible already by small puppies which are only 6-12 week old...

There will be also huge difference in the furute working abilities of both "types" of puppies. Puppies of breeders which do not care for them (only give food to the dogs and nothing more) will be in the future much worser working dogs (will have much worser character) than puppies of breeders which spent a lot of time with the dogs.... And there are many proves showing how important are exactly the first two monts which puppies spent by the breeder. Sometimes it will influence the WHOLE LIFE.
I will post something which will explain you what I mean - some breeders on this forum will be surprised because while caring for the small puppies they unconscious make something what is called "Super dog training" or known as "Early Neurological Stimulation": http://www.breedingbetterdogs.com/achiever.html

This and other things make the difference.... and who was able to compare some litter knows the difference is HUGE. Visible by the puppies but also by adult dogs...