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-   -   Demoniak de la Louve Blanche (http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21935)

z Peronówki 15-03-2012 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyJessy (Bericht 425836)
This discussion is more absurd ...
At first they said Diamond's father was a Saarloos....
Now some say that the father is Skog (Saarloos mix with..?!)

I think there is a huge misinterpretation of the word "Saarloos" in the case of CsW.:? I know only one case where real Saarloos were used to be crossed with Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. It was already several years ago - I remember the Czech CsW Club planned to make international protest against the "de Louba Tar" breeder due to untypical look of some dogs coming from that kennel. (The breeder used Czech "lines" but its offspring didn't resemble Czech Wolfdogs but Saarloos bred by this kennel). They gave up after they were warned that they can not do anything against the breeder who is also FCI judge and the president of the Dutch CsW Club. Simply a VIP in her country. :|

But it seems that Czech Club was right: some years later (2008?) the Dutch kennel club proved the DNA and discovered that in fact the breeder really crossed CsW and Saarloos. It is a pitty that as far I know they proved only Saarloos Wolfhonds and the pedigrees of the CsWs coming from that kennel were never officially verified. Because some of that dogs look VERY suspicious. And some of them resemble 100% Saarloos Wolfhonds.
Maybe the "purity" DNA test can give us the answer for it. :rock_3


All other description of dogs which are "Saarloos" are not 100% correct. Mutaras are similar to Saarloos because of the same origin. Both are crosses of the American/Canadian Wolves and GSD. The same apply to the mixes bred in France - most of them seems to be crosses of American Wolfdogs or similar crosses - because of it they LOOK like Saarloos Wolfhonds (in the fact they are kind of CsW-Saarloos crosses).
Anyway neither Mutaras and their offsprings nor the mixes bred in France are Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. All of them should loose the pedigrees.

koomak 15-03-2012 00:58

You want what? You want me sterilized Doz? no, she makes beautiful babies too. . . I do not like that look CLTS German Shepherds. . My dogs have a pedegree. I trust the breeders, Frank and Suski. . . Give me serious evidence and maybe I make arrangements. .

koomak 15-03-2012 01:03

margo margo margo . . sarloos, us, mix, Wolf. . . I'm so tired, so tired :-( :-( :-( :-(

z Peronówki 15-03-2012 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by koomak (Bericht 425868)
You want what? You want me sterilized Doz? no, she makes beautiful babies too. . . I do not like that look CLTS German Shepherds..

It is not about the look. But about the FCI rules :?:

These FCI breeding regulations apply directly to all FCI member countries as well as the contract partners. This means that breeding may only be carried out with pedigree dogs which have a sound temperament, are healthy in functional and hereditary terms and are registered with a studbook or register (appendix) recognised by the FCI.

Mixes and crosses used in France are not pedigree dogs. It means using them breaks the main FCI rule. Their offsprings can not (should not) be registered. :| If they were registered then it was done against the FCI rules.

It doesn't matter if the puppies are "nice" or not. They are just NOT Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs according to the definition made by the Slovakian Club - garant of the breed by FCI.

Really it must be solved as soon as possible. Because ALL the French breeders will surfer of it ("thanks" to Frank)). I already heard the voices that some breeders from abroad are thinking to force in their countries the $5 regulation from the STANDING ORDERS OF THE FCI. And I know Slovakia already makes use of it:

Any member or contract partner can refuse to (re)-register in its studbook a dog suffering from hereditary defects or featuring defects which go against the Article 2 of the statutes or a dog which does not comply with the rules of selection defined by the member or contract partner in question.
In addition, the members and contract partners are not obliged to automatically register or re-register an imported dog in their studbook if they consider the pedigree to have been prepared incorrectly. In that case, the member and contract partners should clearly explain to the member which issued the certified export pedigree the reason for their denying


It means that Slovakia will refuse registration of dubious Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs coming from abroad and taken to Slovakia. If the French Kennel Club will not clean this mess - if the pedigrees will be not verified and the crosses will spread as it is happening now - you can be prepared that more countries will follow Slovakia and in the worsest case they will REFUSE to register ALL Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs coming from France
(because of the missing credibility of the French pedigrees).

Everybody can see that there is HUGE problem with pedigree cheating in France. But it must be solved in France. All other countries can do (and for sure will do if the problem is not solved) is to ban ALL CsWs from France.

wolfin 15-03-2012 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by koomak (Bericht 425868)
You want what? You want me sterilized Doz? no, she makes beautiful babies too. . . I do not like that look CLTS German Shepherds. . My dogs have a pedegree. I trust the breeders, Frank and Suski. . . Give me serious evidence and maybe I make arrangements. .

money money money :twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

z Peronówki 15-03-2012 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by koomak (Bericht 425869)
margo margo margo . . sarloos, us, mix, Wolf. . . I'm so tired, so tired :-( :-( :-( :-(

Margo? Margo is not important here. You should pay more attention to the words of Christian who is breeding American Wolfdogs and knows then very well. Or to Jos who has many experiences with wolf crosses and he can easily recognize them. His words:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joswolf (Bericht 425712)
Frank Capiez who had my wolfdogmix did speak fine English when i spoke with him. Who are you fooling around and asking if i had Demoniak, sorry i never said that i never seen that dog. And i never seen the so called parents but have you no eyes? Can you not tell an TWH from a mix. Or did a wild wolf climb the fence over night? The breeders who have TWH you think they are all stupid?

Don't forget Michael:

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn (Bericht 425457)
Demoniak and Doz are mixes with fake pedigrees. And all their offspring too (hello Gunner :nono)...

In the fact Sophie it is not imprtant how the animals will be called. Sarloos, us, mix, Wolfdog or if you will call them with your new breed name. One thing is important and one thing is sure:
THEY ARE NOT CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOGS.

martiou07 15-03-2012 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by z Peronówki (Bericht 425872)

It means that Slovakia will refuse registration of dubious Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs coming from abroad and taken to Slovakia. If the French Kennel Club will not clean this mess - if the pedigrees will be not verified and the crosses will spread as it is happening now - you can be prepared that more countries will follow Slovakia and in the worsest case they will REFUSE to register ALL Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs coming from France
(because of the missing credibility of the French pedigrees).

.

Regrettably, I believe that it is not ready to arrive, as says it Daiva: "money, money,money...." :(

michaelundinaeichhorn 15-03-2012 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by koomak (Bericht 425868)
. My dogs have a pedegree. I trust the breeders, Frank and Suski. . .

You're not serious, are you?
Excuse my open, you probably call them rude words, but either you're blind, stupid or a liar.
Or you just don't want to see or hear the truth.

Michael

sylvie:)samira:) 15-03-2012 10:06

This is just jealous ..
Sophie's dogs are beautiful and delicious!
worry, ugly dog that is now seen on the breeding.:evil:
I see nothing wrong with diamond!
He is a champion of France, is the standard
is Czechoslovak wd!

koomak 15-03-2012 10:06

Margo. . . .
You think I make babies for money?
You are even more ridiculous than me. . .
You do not know me. . . You are a world I do not like. . I am not a Breeder! !
You, you make babies for money, that's a reality. Thank you God, we are very different! ! Doz will be very little babies, because I love them like my own dog and I fear for them from this terrible world! !
Also, I never sell my babies to breeders. . . You can tell even from Sarka Ariminium it will not have my babies. . His TRAP will not work! ! I decided it was not a good Breeder! ! Her female has got 10 litters! !!!, it's horrible! ! And you say I make babies for money! ! You are ridiculous! Look at you! ! Do not contact me over to have a baby. I'm not stupid! ! I know why you want them! Machiavellian you are! ! I can not cooperate with you, sorry, I can not love you! ! I AM NOT LIKE YOU. . .
I don't like the trap. . .

koomak 15-03-2012 10:10

Thanks Sylvie!

wolfin 15-03-2012 10:15

Quote:

Do not contact me over to have a baby. I'm not stupid! ! I know why you want them!
:))) sory but in our country this type dogs we can catch free- I speak about mix. and any normal people not want a not pure CSV.
I not interesing in mix dog, not now not in future, not afray, I not want any dog who are with falsh blood.
oh yes you not breeder you only person who want destroid breed.

Quote:

He is a champion of France, is the standard
is Czechoslovak wd!
when this animal passt a IPO - I say WOW. now he are ONLY a dog show Ch not moore.
Sylvia I think better about you. or you one writte in personal messages other in forum? FR CH is nothing - all dogs can be a CH if owner have time and money and stupid ambition. This say NOTHING about dog, realy, if you think FR CH make this mut a PURE - you realy childish and funny. This not change anything.

koomak 15-03-2012 10:31

No it's me who will not give you puppies :-) :-) :-) :-)
you do not know for Ariminium? She asked me two babies, one male and one female! it proposed to double the price for the first choice! ! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

wolfin 15-03-2012 10:33

bisnes is bisnes :)
you can breed all who want only not lie about purity this mix and end. moore not interesing, when they not have typical behavior from CSV.

koomak 15-03-2012 10:36

All judges have to give an excellent Diamond, so this dog is perfect in the standard. . .
:-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)

wolfin 15-03-2012 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by koomak (Bericht 425917)
All judges have to give an excellent Diamond, so this dog is perfect in the standard. . .
:-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)

past a IPO :) all alraund give for all dog great opinion, when want judge in next show too :) I work in this, to much good know who is in dog show. for this and is funny this his CH :)

wolfin 15-03-2012 10:41

http://dl.wolfdog.org/pics2/2011/6/1...35-1265553.jpg

this dog too all time have ONLY excelent results in dog show and are a CH. :))))
now see - dog show results is NOTHING

sylvie:)samira:) 15-03-2012 10:50

I know Sophie and she does not take the puppies to Doz, for money. !!!
but you're crazy!??!!
you are really bad to say what!!really!you do not know her!!

Morian 15-03-2012 10:56

we can easily find some (even!) euro or world winners which barely meet the standard. why? becuse 99% of judges have no time to read standards of rare breeds, because populations in different countries are very different too, because even a really defective dog can be shown perfectly, because, becuse, just becuse, and we all understand it, every person which was at list at one show. i can bring pure wolf/saarlos/f1/anything into csv ring and get exellent, but it will not mean that the beast i brang is csv.

wolfin 15-03-2012 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylvie:)samira:) (Bericht 425924)
I know Sophie and she does not take the puppies to Doz, for money. !!!
but you're crazy!??!!
you are really bad to say what!!really!you do not know her!!

I not am crazy, I not mas know she personality, when shes WORK speak about she in the best way. breeding atypical animals with falsh pedigree. Not important sale she or not- I not disput about this, only about falsificate and breed destroing for stupid ambition, not moore.


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