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GalomyOak 05-05-2008 21:03

Penn Hip method
 
A little off topic - but I am curious, in Europe, or elsewhere, is it common to use what we call in the US the "Penn Hip method" to test for HD? Does the FCI require a particular test? We generally test through the OFA at 2 years of age, but this testing is gaining in popularity here, and can offer results at 4 months of age.

http://www.pennhip.org/

Just curious!:)

michaelundinaeichhorn 06-05-2008 07:24

It is not usually used but it has been published several times the last month or year. I think it will get more and more popular the next years.

Rona 30-01-2010 22:23

On recieving a CD with several X-ray pictures of my dog's joints, there was one, which the vet indicated as made by Pen Hip method.

Could somebody explain in simple words (without medical jargon ;)) what the difference between the classical method and the Pen Hip is?

Luckily Lorka's joints were OK on all photos, but I'm just curious: could the dog have different results if the joints were tested by different methods?

jmvdwiel 30-01-2010 22:55

the penhip methode measures the laxity from the hips, so how much space you can make in the hip joint. and looks for deformations in the hip.

The 'normal' method only looks for deformations.

In holland you have to make the 'normal' hip xray, you do not have a real choice. And yes you can make the penhip in holland but it can not be evaluated officially in holland and I think the evaluation is done in the USA.

Rona 31-01-2010 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmvdwiel (Bericht 273652)
the penhip methode measures the laxity from the hips, so how much space you can make in the hip joint. and looks for deformations in the hip.

The 'normal' method only looks for deformations.

:gent, now I understand :)

GalomyOak 31-01-2010 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rona (Bericht 273689)
:gent, now I understand :)

There are some photos that describe the process on the website:
http://research.vet.upenn.edu/pennhi...5/Default.aspx
http://research.vet.upenn.edu/pennhi...2/Default.aspx

There are 3 sets of x-rays taken during an official PennHip evaluation - one set is identical to the ones (at least for OFA, I don't know about other countries) used in a normal, standard evaluation that is "judged". So if someone does decide to make a PennHip evaluation, the vet only needs to make an extra set of that film at the same time to submit to the normal registry for their country. PennHip also has a vet (or might be more than one) look for deformities in that view - if you look at a report, it will say if dog has "DJD" = degenerative joint disease = typically HD.

There is a special tool used in PennHip x-rays that extends, or pulls the joint out - showing the laxity/looseness of the tendon.

Yes, all films must be submitted to the University of Pennsylvania - where they use results in research. It also makes the controls and results more accurate - since it is required that owners allow the dog's results to be used in statistics for the breed, in addition to the training required of all vets taking the x-ray, and the numerical measurement.
:)

Rona 01-02-2010 09:24

Thanks Marcy :)
Quote:

Originally Posted by GalomyOak (Bericht 273701)
There is a special tool used in PennHip x-rays that extends, or pulls the joint out - showing the laxity/looseness of the tendon.

I suppose this was the element mentioned by the vet radiologist who did the test on Lorka. 8)

I was wondering - do you think your dog's result become worse because mild HD developed between the first and second tests, or the penhip method was more reliable and showed what the classical tests did not show?

elf 01-02-2010 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmvdwiel http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/images/...s/viewpost.gif
the penhip methode measures the laxity from the hips, so how much space you can make in the hip joint. and looks for deformations in the hip.

The 'normal' method only looks for deformations.


Quote:

:gent, now I understand :)

I understood Norberg angle was a quantitative measure of passive laxity.

GalomyOak 01-02-2010 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rona (Bericht 273937)
Thanks Marcy :)

I suppose this was the element mentioned by the vet radiologist who did the test on Lorka. 8)

I was wondering - do you think your dog's result become worse because mild HD developed between the first and second tests, or the penhip method was more reliable and showed what the classical tests did not show?

It's hard to make predictions...PennHip was the first test, which DID NOT show the HD in the standard (OFA) view. I think that test is judged by a panel of 3 vets (blindly), but it might just be one, I'm not sure. OFA films are judged blindly by 3 different vets, with the result being what 2 of 3 diagnose - according to the OFA website, this method has high reliability. There is that "human element" in reading films (which causes a degree of error) which could alter results. And of course, even with PennHip, it requires a human to position the joints. I really, really trust my vets - I have faith that they gave me good films. But again, there is the "human element". I didn't see the 2nd (OFA film), but did see the first (PennHip). Even the examining vet didn't notice any problem with the first, and I (though I am certainly no expert) didn't see anything with the first film either. Roni has definitely changed in structure - more muscle, more filled out, definitely not fat - since 18 months. I think it's quite possible he had a later onset of HD in his left hip. I can only trust that there is a reason OFA requires dogs to be 24 months before they give official results. Since PennHip measures how far the ligament streches (this does not change too much after the age of 4 months, and is hereditary), and OFA looks only for changes as a result of HD - it's a bit difficult to compare the 2 methods.

If it didn't require anethesia, I would do this same "test" of x-raying at 18 and 24 months with all of my dogs...the science is interesting. But, I don't want to put my dogs at risk for my science experiment only.... I only did the OFA films on chance - when I did the PennHip tests, I didn't realize the extent of ED in the breed. I now realize how much it is in our breed - I wanted to do ED tests (which were normal) before I bred, so figured I would do the extra hip films at the same time. The HD results were a surprise, for sure.

PennHip recommends breeding dogs in the "tightest" half of the breed - statistics are recorded after 20 dogs have been PennHip tested for each breed, until then the CSV is compared to "all other breeds". It's almost impossible for a dog with a number <.30 to develop HD. For most breeds .30 -.40 has only a 10-15% chance of developing HD. With a score >.70, it is a very high probability the dog will develop HD. But.....this is all breed specific too. GSDs develop HD at a much lower number than other breeds, as shown by this chart:
http://www.pennhip.org/djdprobability.html

The theory has been this trend is influenced by the "tucked up" structure/movement of the GSD - which we don't have with the CSV! Roni had numbers .38/.39 - pretty low (in the 10-15% range, and better than 80% of dogs of all breeds!). Maybe he was just the unlucky 1 in 10. But, maybe there is something more to the genetics of the GSD (not just the structure) that causes a lower "threshold" - which could also give the CSV the possibility to develop HD even with a "tight" ligament...like I said, the science is interesting - for the CSV and the GSD (a big influence on the CSV genetics). It will be interesting to see how Roni's HD progresses as he gets older - with a low score, hopefully it will stay at mild (C) - but if it gets worse, that also has serious implications for the heredibility at a low number.

Anthea had low (good) scores (.23/.37) and consistently excellent (A1) results, I think she is genuinely healthy, so...I am hopeful this will offset potential problems from Roni in my 4 pups - it seems to frequently be the case with other CSV breeders who have bred parents with A and C hips. Of course the pups will also have x-rays - at 24 months.;-)

It would be cool if the film dates were a part of the database - to compare trends at different ages for HD - if a higher percentage of dogs are diagnosed HD positive at 12, 16, 18, 24, 36 months. As a breeder, I'd really like to have the most reliable results - taken at the most reliable age - to have the best chance to produce healthy results in litters - even if it means waiting 2-3 years to breed.

Marcy

01-02-2010 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalomyOak (Bericht 274128)
As a breeder, I'd really like to have the most reliable results - taken at the most reliable age - to have the best chance to produce healthy results in litters - even if it means waiting 2-3 years to breed.

Marcy

Even though I'm years away from being in your position, this is exactly how I feel on the subject. :) I never understood what the big hurry was with breeding dogs at a young age when the goal is to produce the most sound animals possible (this is with ALL dog breeding, not just the CsV). When it can take 3-4 years for a dog to properly fill out and develop, why would anyone want to breed dogs before they know exactly what they are going to get? Not to mention the strain it puts on a young dam. I personally don't trust any hip results prior to 24 months, and would be more apt to trust scores done even a year past that. I also wouldn't breed a dog younger than 3 years of age, especially when it comes to dogs where working ability and structure should be so influential to breeding. I also put more stock in confirmation titles won at a little bit of an older age than a dog who finishes early. Yes, the dog might be a prime example of the breed as an adolescent, but there's no telling what the dog will fill out to look like! ;) I know I don't have the most common beliefs on breeding, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in. :)

Also, thanks, Marcy, for all the Penn Hip info! I was only ever aware of OFA, so it's great to know there's a second option out there. It would probably be most beneficial for breeders in the US to do like you've done, and get scores through both groups since there are obviously discrepancies and the human factor you've pointed out. :)

buidelwolf 01-02-2010 22:49

I did the Penn Hip test too for my dog Lucky ( Delan van Hiemrod ) when he was 4 months old. The Hip evaluation report was excellent according to my vet and indeed the evaluation was made in USA (PennHip analysis center, Malvern). If I have understood, Lucky is the first Csv which had the Penn Hip test.

GalomyOak 02-02-2010 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by buidelwolf (Bericht 274268)
I did the Penn Hip test too for my dog Lucky ( Delan van Hiemrod ) when he was 4 months old. The Hip evaluation report was excellent according to my vet and indeed the evaluation was made in USA (PennHip analysis center, Malvern). If I have understood, Lucky is the first Csv which had the Penn Hip test.

Yes, I think it's quite possible he was the first! That's really cool! So, now there only needs to be 17 more CSVs tested to reach the golden number of 20 for breed statistics to start being specific! Can you recall what his results were? Now I am very curious! :thumbs

Thanks for the info! And congratulations for good results!
Marcy

Rona 02-02-2010 12:51

Thanks for the explanations Marcy. Since I have a set of films for the penhip evalution I could send them to reduce the number to 16... ;-).

Just wonder how to arrange this technically. Can I post the CD, or does it have to be my vet?

buidelwolf 02-02-2010 20:12

Quote:

Can you recall what his results were?
Left:
Distraction Index: 0.25
Degenerative Joint Disease: None
Cavitation: No
Other findings: Not applicable

Right:
Distraction Index: 0.19
Degenerative Joint Disease: None
Cavitation: No
Other findings: Not applicable

The PennHip Analysis Center sent the report to my vet, together with a CD-Rom with the photos. They had contact about the fact the center could not compare the results with the average scores within the breed, because my dog was the first one of the breed to have undergone the Penn Hip test, according to the center. So they compared it with the average of comparable breeds of about similar size (GSD's?) and marked the results as excellent.

GalomyOak 03-02-2010 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by buidelwolf (Bericht 274702)
Left:
Distraction Index: 0.25
Degenerative Joint Disease: None
Cavitation: No
Other findings: Not applicable

Right:
Distraction Index: 0.19
Degenerative Joint Disease: None
Cavitation: No
Other findings: Not applicable

The PennHip Analysis Center sent the report to my vet, together with a CD-Rom with the photos. They had contact about the fact the center could not compare the results with the average scores within the breed, because my dog was the first one of the breed to have undergone the Penn Hip test, according to the center. So they compared it with the average of comparable breeds of about similar size (GSD's?) and marked the results as excellent.

That's really great! Those are certainly excellent results! Thank you for the information, and again congratulations!

Marcy

GalomyOak 03-02-2010 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rona (Bericht 274475)
Thanks for the explanations Marcy. Since I have a set of films for the penhip evalution I could send them to reduce the number to 16... ;-).

Just wonder how to arrange this technically. Can I post the CD, or does it have to be my vet?

Wow! Thank you! What a great offer!

According to the website, the films must be sent in by the vet (who must also be certified, or "in training" from PennHip). The address and more info can be found here:
http://research.vet.upenn.edu/pennhi...9/Default.aspx

Take care!!!!
Marcy

tupacs2legs 03-02-2010 11:56

hi :)

i enquired about the PennHip method..as i am a vn i thought we could take the pictures at my surgery and send them on (like for bva hip scoring)
not so :cry:

the vet has to be 'licensed' in the method :?:?:?

Rona 03-02-2010 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs (Bericht 274945)
hi :)
i enquired about the PennHip method..as i am a vn i thought we could take the pictures at my surgery and send them on (like for bva hip scoring)
not so :cry:
the vet has to be 'licensed' in the method :?:?:?

I've inquired, too.:lol: My vet will contact the licenced Polish vet about this case. They both use exactly the same American equipment, and my vet has also been trained in Pen Hip method. He didn't bother to apply for the licence, because so far there has been no demand for the tests here.

I definitely won't have my dog put under anesthethics again solely for scientific reasons, but if Lorka's films can help to build the base for the CSV, I'll ask the licenced vet to send them to Pensylvania.

I don't need the official, certfied Pen Hip results, anyway. :)

GalomyOak 19-05-2011 20:16

I recently had contact with PennHip. We currently have 9 CSVs that have been tested so far. 11 more to go until we can start using the test as a reliable piece of data for breeding! ;-)

I recently got results that I was very happy with for my male, Arimminum Wasabogoa:

Left Hip: 0.21, No Degenerative Joint Disease detected
Right Hip: 0.30, No Degenerative Joint Disease detected

yukidomari 19-05-2011 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalomyOak (Bericht 378840)
I recently had contact with PennHip. We currently have 9 CSVs that have been tested so far. 11 more to go until we can start using the test as a reliable piece of data for breeding! ;-)

I recently got results that I was very happy with for my male, Arimminum Wasabogoa:

Left Hip: 0.21, No Degenerative Joint Disease detected
Right Hip: 0.30, No Degenerative Joint Disease detected

Congrats on Bongo's results! 11 shouldn't be too hard! Just have owners of "A" and upcoming "B" litter use PennHip and you'll almost be there!

ETA: I had a passing thought about the 20 results needed for baseline - does it matter if most of the subjects are related? Would unrelated subjects provided more 'accurate' results? Or does it not matter at all?

draggar 20-05-2011 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalomyOak (Bericht 378840)
I recently had contact with PennHip. We currently have 9 CSVs that have been tested so far. 11 more to go until we can start using the test as a reliable piece of data for breeding! ;-)

I recently got results that I was very happy with for my male, Arimminum Wasabogoa:

Left Hip: 0.21, No Degenerative Joint Disease detected
Right Hip: 0.30, No Degenerative Joint Disease detected

Send Sara the info if she doesn't already have it.

GalomyOak 20-05-2011 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari (Bericht 378842)
Congrats on Bongo's results! 11 shouldn't be too hard! Just have owners of "A" and upcoming "B" litter use PennHip and you'll almost be there!

ETA: I had a passing thought about the 20 results needed for baseline - does it matter if most of the subjects are related? Would unrelated subjects provided more 'accurate' results? Or does it not matter at all?

I think it's kind of interesting to get a blend of both. The baseline continuously grows with the number of dogs tested. Currently, the dogs are measured against the median for all breeds - 0.48. Two of my dogs are in the 80th percentile, Bongo was in the 90th. That said, Roni came up with C/mild HD hips when tested about 10 months later, on a .39 hip. Makes me wonder if the breed gets HD at a lower distraction than other breeds - like the GSD.

Ed, sure she does - Fred Lanting was one of PennHips biggest proponents. Best to do everthing in one shot after she is 2. One of the PennHip views is the same as the OFA. Just have to go to a certified vet.

saschia 20-05-2011 09:57

Hey guys, I still do not understand how you can get usable results from numbers that only say how the dog is doing in comparison with the rest of the population. I am not questioning the results, mind, I would just like to know what they mean.
I mean, if, theoretically, the whole population of US vlcaks was HD A(0/0), wouldn't the percentiles be of no real value? I mean in population of healthy animals, even the lowest-score is still healthy. And in reverse, if most of animals was D or E, than if one was in great percentile, it could still be just a C or D dog...

So do the result contain also some other numbers, that reflect the absolute values, not relative?

elf 20-05-2011 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by saschia (Bericht 378901)
And in reverse, if most of animals was D or E, than if one was in great percentile, it could still be just a C or D dog...

Yep, that's why it's important info, in such a breed those dogs would be interesting, it's the story of the breeding value composed by different traits: BV = aA + bB + ...

You can guess absolute value with graphs I put there: http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...ic.php?id=1938

The results of those 2 plublications are interessant:

Distraction index as a risk factor for osteoarthritis associated with hip dysplasia in four large dog breeds.

Runge JJ, Kelly SP, Gregor TP, Kotwal S, Smith GK.

Department of Clinical Studies, Matthew J. Ryan Veterinary Hospital at the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA, USA.
Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To determine if age, breed, gender, weight or distraction index (DI) influenced the risk of radiographic osteoarthritis (OA) of canine hip dysplasia (CHD) in four common dog breeds; the American bulldog, Bernese mountain dog, Newfoundland and standard poodle.

MATERIALS AND METHODS: This was a cross sectional prevalence study with 4349 dogs. Canine hips were evaluated using 3 radiographic projections: the hip-extended view, the compression view and the distraction view. The hip-extended view was examined for the presence of OA. The PennHIP distraction view was utilized to calculate the DI. For all breeds, a multiple logistic regression model incorporating age, weight, gender, and DI was created. For each breed, disease-susceptibility curves grouping dogs on the basis of age were constructed. Receiver-operating characteristic (ROC) curves were developed for each breed regardless of age.

RESULTS: For all breeds, DI was the most significant risk factor for the development of OA associated with CHD. Weight and age were also significant risk factors in all four breeds, but gender was not.

CLINICAL SIGNIFICANCE: Results from this study support previous findings, that irrespective of breed, the probability of radiographic OA increases with hip joint laxity as measured by the DI. Breed-specific differences in this relationship, however, warrant investigation of all breeds affected by CHD to determine inherent dependency of hip OA on joint laxity. Such findings guide veterinarians in helping dog breeders to make evidence-based breeding decisions and in informing dog owners to implement preventative treatments for CHD for dogs found to be at risk.


----------------------

Evaluation of the relationship between Orthopedic Foundation for Animals' hip joint scores and PennHIP distraction index values in dogs.

Powers MY, Karbe GT, Gregor TP, McKelvie P, Culp WT, Fordyce HH, Smith GK.

Department of Clinical Studies-Philadelphia, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA 19104, USA.

Comment in:

* J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2010 Oct 15;237(8):899; author reply 899-900.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To compare 2 screening methods for detecting evidence of hip dysplasia (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals [OFA] and PennHIP) in dogs.

DESIGN: Diagnostic test evaluation study. Animals-439 dogs >or= 24 months of age that received routine hip joint screening from June 1987 through July 2008.

PROCEDURES: Dogs were sedated, and PennHIP radiography was performed (hip joint- extended [HE], compression, and distraction radiographic views). The HE radiographic view was submitted for OFA evaluation. A copy of the HE radiographic view plus the compression and distraction radiographic views were submitted for routine PennHIP evaluation, including quantification of hip joint laxity via the distraction index (DI).

RESULTS: 14% (60/439) of dogs had hip joints scored as excellent by OFA standards; however, 52% (31/60) of those had a DI >or= 0.30 (range, 0.14 to 0.61). Eighty-two percent of (183/223) dogs with OFA-rated good hip joints had a DI >or= 0.30 (range, 0.10 to 0.77), and 94% (79/84) of dogs with OFA-rated fair hip joints had a DI >or= 0.30 (range, 0.14 to 0.77). Of all dogs with fair to excellent hip joints by OFA standards, 80% (293/367) had a DI >or= 0.30. All dogs with OFA-rated borderline hip joints or mild, moderate, or severe hip dysplasia had a DI >or= 0.30 (range, 0.30 to 0.83).

CONCLUSION AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Dogs judged as phenotypically normal by the OFA harbored clinically important passive hip joint laxity as determined via distraction radiography. Results suggested that OFA scoring of HE radiographs underestimated susceptibility to osteoarthritis in dogs, which may impede progress in reducing or eliminating hip dysplasia through breeding.

GalomyOak 20-05-2011 15:08

PennHip makes the recommendation that breeders use animals that are within the tightest half of their breed population (lowest distraction/laxity number); this is more reliable obviously, if there is a large population tested for the breed. PennHip begins providing numbers against a control group for the breed, once 20 dogs have been tested within a breed.

PennHip research has shown that dogs who test at .30 or below have virtually no chance of developing HD (only one dog of thousands ever has). Conversely, dogs close to or over .70 are almost guaranteed to develop HD. Between .30 and .70, there is an increasing chance to develop HD. GSDs tend to develop HD at lower numbers than other breeds. Pennhip hypothesizes this is because of the "tucked under" structure of a GSDs rear legs...but maybe not? Maybe it's in genetics.

PennHip makes 3 xrays. One is the same as that used for OFA in the US, or standard testing in Europe. PennHip evaluates this film for signs of HD - if it is normal, they tell you, or if there is disease, they tell you, but they don't give it a "grade" of having a little HD or a lot of HD - only yes or no to presence of the disease. At this point, I don’t think PennHip is totally reliable for our breed; but since the film is made that is the same for OFA, it costs only an extra $30 to send a second copy to OFA. Two tasks and types of research (one for now, for owners who wish to breed soon, and one for the future, that can be used with the PennHip method) can be done with the same xrays.

Once a large enough population is established, PennHip has been shown to be quite effective in decreasing (and even eliminating) HD within closed populations, if high pressure on selection for hips is used. One example is the Seeing Eye Labradors. It’s more effective because a quantitative result is used – a measurement of the laxity (elasticity, or “stretchiness”) of the ligament that makes hips tight/fit correctly, or loose/not fit correctly (HD) - rather than qualitative. It is probably not as effective to use qualitative results, since some dogs with genetics prone to developing HD never get the disease…but still pass the gene to their puppies. It could be hypothesized that these dogs have a higher laxity of the ligament – if bred to another dog with a recessive gene prone to high laxity, they could produce puppies with HD.

All of the 9 CSVs tested so far (including one in Holland, mentioned above, who has the healthiest results) have come from a variety of genetic backgrounds. So far as I know, our highest numbers have been in the high .40s, but I think it’s possible we might have a higher number now - one who shows a lot of evidence of disease. Not all of the tested dogs were selected from parents with good selection for hips…so we do have a variety at this point. Its PennHip’s goal to have an open database of tested dogs (voluntary for the owner), and they are currently working on this.

saschia 20-05-2011 15:30

Thanks elf for the papers, it is interesting read.

OK, so I understand now that there is an absolute number, which I find reassuring. I agree that for the selection it is preferable to use animals from the better group.

But if there was theoretical situation, that all animals in the group would have the DI higher than 0.3, then I think the solution would not be to breed with the animals from the better half, but to selectively import animals with low DI for the improvement. So if there was no absolute number that had some clinical significance, then using only the comparative method would be insufficient in my opinion.

yukidomari 20-05-2011 18:36

"The reliability of the PennHIP method slightly improves with age, with one year 1 year being marginally superior to 6 months, which in turn is marginally better than 4 months. For all dogs, we recommend when possible, to use the mean (average) of repeated evaluations to get a more reliable estimate of a dog's hip laxity status (phenotype)."

That is from PennHIP's site.

All the people I know who have done it with their dogs, have only had it done once. I'm curious as to anyone who has done it repeatedly as PennHIP suggests that under optimal conditions it would be so, and what the results were.

Perhaps we'll do it twice or so just to see?

Also, Marcy, you said, "That said, Roni came up with C/mild HD hips when tested about 10 months later, on a .39 hip." So does that mean it's probably not reliable to do either OFA or PennHIP by itself?

GalomyOak 30-06-2011 17:17

Our first set of PennHip results/comparisons. There are a few more, but I am waiting for results/permission from owners.

Anthea od Vlci Skaly
OFA: Excellent A1 (25 mos)
FCI: *
PENN: .23/.37, No DJD (15 mos)

Taabernakkelin Hronsek
OFA: Mild C (27 mos) Unilateral Left
FCI:*
PENN: 38/.39, No DJD (17 mos)

Wasabogoa Arimminum
OFA: Good A2
FCI:*
PENN: .21/.30 No DJD

Delan van Heimrod
OFA: *
FCI: *
PENN: .25/.19 No DJD

Piter (Panicucci)
OFA: Fair (B)
FCI: B
PENN: .26/.26 No DJD

Elsa Non Solo Lupo
OFA: Good A2
FCI: *
PENN: .20/.20 No DJD

Laika Non Solo Lupo
OFA: Good A2
FCI: *
PENN:; .28/.26 No DJD

Estia D'ell Olim Palus
OFA: Moderate D Unilateral Left
FCI:*
PENN: .41/.47 Moderate DJD Unilateral Left

GalomyOak 25-01-2012 01:46

With this year (and the testing of my A litter, as well as a few other dogs) we should reach the necessary 20 dogs to have comparative statistics for Penn Hip with our breed.

Here is an article comparing the PennHip method with the UK scheme - and of course I have already talked about a comparison to the OFFA scheme: http://research.vet.upenn.edu/Portal...Feb%202010.pdf

PennHip will be holding training sessions for veterinarians in Berlin and Frankfurt, DE (28.04.12 and 29.04.12) this year so vets can become certified - a really great thing to encourage your vets to attend if they aren't too far (only, I don't know if the training will be in German or English) - to make PennHip available more in Europe. :)

Here is more info to pass along to your vet (in German): http://www.pennhip.info/

yukidomari 25-01-2012 02:11

now, if the PennHIP database were open à la OFFA......................

AMERICANI 08-02-2012 01:22

PennHIP Results
 
Marcy, I was curious when you received notification of 9 in their system.. When I sent all of my adults info, they told me there were 13... :shock:
5 of which are mine lol...

GalomyOak 08-02-2012 03:31

I can't remember exactly. I think we are at around 15 now. You can ask on the PennHip Facebook page to be sure, if you want, they are great about responding. I am planning on adding Corgan and Asha to the database later this year (Corgan in April, Asha when she turns 2). I think Jing will be testing her dog later on, and hopefully my other puppy owners from the A litter will also test (though it would be great to get a variety of lines from all owners). That should get us over the 20 dog hump...yikes, hill probably sounds better than hump...:p

AMERICANI 09-02-2012 02:21

LOL! :lol:

yukidomari 28-02-2012 02:59

Just an FYI but if anyone also has Embrace Pet Insurance, if you have PennHIP'd dogs less than .30, you can get a 5% discount :)

yukidomari 01-03-2012 21:47

I count 8 dogs in your list, Marcy.. and PennHIP says there're 15 now.

Who has the other 7 dogs, and is willing to share results? :)

Pete 09-03-2012 05:38

pennhip results
 
Lapua Zlata-Palz
left .43 no DJD
right n/a due to cavitation no DJD.
acording to my pennhip vet if they felt the right hip were bad they would not have scored him. 70th percentile
Alaqua Whispering Wolf
left .33 no DJD
right .40 no DJD 80th percentile

yukidomari 30-03-2012 06:37

Ilysia z Lasow Preczowskich (18 weeks)
OFFA: not available due to age
PennHIP: 0.44/0.46, No DJD

Wintermoon z Lasow Preczowskich (15 months)
OFFA: Preliminary Good, A-2
PennHIP: 0.26/0.26, No DJD

We will be repeating the scores at 24 months and up, and moving these scores onto offa.org.

yukidomari 02-04-2013 20:42

As of February 2013, there are 15 total dogs worldwide who have had their hips scored through PennHIP.

This year I think we will definitely reach the 20 dogs necessary to establish a minimum useable breed baseline!

Asha z Dubnicanky was screened in March of 2013 (results pending).

Galomy Oak Calypso, Churel II z Peronowki, Galomy Oak Big Sky, Gran Oro Sol Atropa Bella Donna and possibly Galomy Oak Benelli and Balthazar AmeriCani will all be radiographed in this year. I think there is one more from A-Galomy Oak (but I don't know which dog). :grosscool

yukidomari 04-06-2013 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalomyOak (Bericht 391767)
Our first set of PennHip results/comparisons. There are a few more, but I am waiting for results/permission from owners.

Anthea od Vlci Skaly
OFA: Excellent A1 (25 mos)
FCI: *
PENN: .23/.37, No DJD (15 mos)

Taabernakkelin Hronsek
OFA: Mild C (27 mos) Unilateral Left
FCI:*
PENN: 38/.39, No DJD (17 mos)

Wasabogoa Arimminum
OFA: Good A2
FCI:*
PENN: .21/.30 No DJD

Delan van Heimrod
OFA: *
FCI: *
PENN: .25/.19 No DJD

Piter (Panicucci)
OFA: Fair (B)
FCI: B
PENN: .26/.26 No DJD

Elsa Non Solo Lupo
OFA: Good A2
FCI: *
PENN: .20/.20 No DJD

Laika Non Solo Lupo
OFA: Good A2
FCI: *
PENN:; .28/.26 No DJD

Estia D'ell Olim Palus
OFA: Moderate D Unilateral Left
FCI:*
PENN: .41/.47 Moderate DJD Unilateral Left

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete (Bericht 424984)
Lapua Zlata-Palz
left .43 no DJD
right n/a due to cavitation no DJD.

Alaqua Whispering Wolf
left .33 no DJD
right .40 no DJD 80th percentile

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari (Bericht 427470)
Ilysia z Lasow Preczowskich (18 weeks)
OFFA: not available due to age
PennHIP: 0.44/0.46, No DJD

Wintermoon z Lasow Preczowskich (15 months)
OFFA: Preliminary Good, A-2
PennHIP: 0.26/0.26, No DJD

Along with the above 12 known scores here are two more scores (publicly available on breeders' sites):

Garm Braterstwo Wilczakow (17 months)
OFFA: not done
PennHIP: 0.30/0.24, No DJD

Asha z Dubnicanky
OFFA: Fair (B1)
PennHIP: 0.35/0.40, DJD ?

yukidomari 04-11-2013 18:59

According to an inquiry sent to PennHIP today, as of August 2013 there are 18 Czechoslovakian Vlcaks who have had PennHIP evaluations.

yukidomari 13-12-2013 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalomyOak (Bericht 391767)
Our first set of PennHip results/comparisons. There are a few more, but I am waiting for results/permission from owners.

Anthea od Vlci Skaly
OFA: Excellent A1 (25 mos)
FCI: *
PENN: .23/.37, No DJD (15 mos)

Taabernakkelin Hronsek
OFA: Mild C (27 mos) Unilateral Left
FCI:*
PENN: 38/.39, No DJD (17 mos)

Wasabogoa Arimminum
OFA: Good A2
FCI:*
PENN: .21/.30 No DJD

Delan van Heimrod
OFA: *
FCI: A
PENN: .25/.19 No DJD

Piter (Panicucci)
OFA: Fair (B)
FCI: B
PENN: .26/.26 No DJD

Elsa Non Solo Lupo
OFA: Good A2
FCI: *
PENN: .20/.20 No DJD

Laika Non Solo Lupo
OFA: Good A2
FCI: *
PENN:; .28/.26 No DJD

Estia D'ell Olim Palus
OFA: Moderate D Unilateral Left
FCI:*
PENN: .41/.47 Moderate DJD Unilateral Left

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete (Bericht 424984)
Lapua Zlata-Palz
left .43 no DJD
right n/a due to cavitation no DJD.
acording to my pennhip vet if they felt the right hip were bad they would not have scored him. 70th percentile


Alaqua Whispering Wolf
left .33 no DJD
right .40 no DJD 80th percentile

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari (Bericht 427470)
Ilysia z Lasow Preczowskich (18 weeks)
OFFA: not available due to age
PennHIP: 0.44/0.46, No DJD

Wintermoon z Lasow Preczowskich (15 months)
OFFA: Preliminary Good, A-2
PennHIP: 0.26/0.26, No DJD

We will be repeating the scores at 24 months and up, and moving these scores onto offa.org.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari (Bericht 455396)
Along with the above 12 known scores here are two more scores (publicly available on breeders' sites):

Garm Braterstwo Wilczakow (17 months)
OFFA: not done
PennHIP: 0.30/0.24, No DJD

Asha z Dubnicanky
OFFA: Fair (B1)
PennHIP: 0.35/0.40, DJD ?

And the most latest score, posted for BigSkyMike (having problems with WD account):

Galomy Oak Big Sky (24 months)
OFFA: Good (A2)
PennHIP: 0.32/0.28, No DJD

On the report it indicates that there are not yet 20 CsV in the database.

So we assume from the last status update with 18 dogs + Sky now there are now 19 Czechoslovakian Vlcak worldwide in the PennHIP database. We only need 1 more to establish a breed-specific set of percentile data.


yukidomari 30-12-2013 22:47

Master List, In alphabetical order by name:

Alaqua Whispering Wolf
OFFA: N/A
PennHIP: 0.33/0.40, no DJD


Greyfarer Aludra
OFA: Excellent (A1)
PennHIP: 0.19/0.18, No DJD


Anthea od Vlci Skaly
OFA: Excellent A1 (25 mos)
FCI: A-1
PennHIP: 0.23/0.37, No DJD (15 mos)

Asha z Dubnicanky
OFFA: Fair (B1)
PennHIP: 0.35/0.40, DJD ?


Greyfarer Ashira
OFA: Good (A2)
PennHIP: 0.19/0.21, No DJD (14 mths)


Atria Kaida Sonata Carpathica
OFA: Good (A2)
PennHIP: 0.46/0.37, No DJD


Greyfarer Azov
OFA: Good (A2)
PennHIP: 0.30/0.33, No DJD


Galomy Oak Baja
OFFA: -
PennHIP: 0.36/0.38, no DJD

Galomy Oak Big Sky (24 months)
OFFA: Good (A2)
PennHIP: 0.32/0.28, No DJD

Churel II z Peronówki
OFA: -
PennHIP: 0.27/0.20, no DJD, 90th Percentile

Delan van Heimrod
OFA: *
FCI: A
PennHIP: 0.25/0.19, No DJD

Drake Darkstar Amant Gris
OFA: A2/Good
PennHIP: 0.27/0.27, No DJD, 80th Percentile

Elsa Non Solo Lupo
OFA: Good A2
FCI: *
PennHIP: 0.20/0.20, No DJD

Estia D'ell Olim Palus
OFA: Moderate Unilateral Left
FCI: D
PennHIP: 0.41/0.47, Moderate DJD Unilateral Left

Garm Braterstwo Wilczakow (17 months)
OFFA: not done
PennHIP: 0.30/0.24, No DJD

Taabernakkelin Hronsek
OFA: Mild C (27 mos) Unilateral Left
FCI:*
PennHIP: 0.38/0.39, No DJD (17 mos)

Ilysia z Lasow Preczowskich (18 weeks)
OFFA: -
PennHIP: 0.44/0.46, No DJD

Laika Non Solo Lupo
OFA: Good A2
FCI: *
PennHIP: 0.28/0.26, No DJD

Lapua Zlata-Palz
OFFA: N/A
PennHIP: 0.43/(right N/A - cavitated), no DJD

Łojma II z Peronówki
OFFA: Excellent (A-1)
PennHIP: 0.26/0.18, no DJD, 90th percentile

Arimminum O'Lady Vivaldi
OFA: -
PennHIP: 0.27/0.26

Piter (Panicucci)
OFA: Fair (B)
FCI: B
PennHIP: 0.26/0.26, No DJD

Arimminum Wasabogoa
OFA: Good
FCI:A-2
PennHIP: 0.21/0.30, No DJD

Wintermoon z Lasow Preczowskich
OFFA: Preliminary Good, A-2
PennHIP: 0.26/0.26, No DJD, 90th Percentile


Q'Chorzyca II z Peronowki
OFA: Moderate
FCI: D
PennHIP: 0.42/0.38

yukidomari 31-03-2014 23:15

Another result:

Galomy Oak Baja
PennHIP: 0.36/0.38, no DJD

yukidomari 02-10-2014 20:52

And now finally there is CsV breed-specific PennHIP statistical laxity report:
As of August 2014, there are:

22 Czechoslovakian Vlcaks with PennHip worldwide.
Minimum (best) score: 0.20
Maximum (worst) score: 0.90
Mean: 0.36
Breakdown by percentile:
>75th percentile: 0.30
>60th percentile: 0.33
>50th percentile: 0.37
>25th percentile: 0.43


The recommendation of PennHIP regarding breeds with smaller populations is to breed from animals with scores better than the 50th percentile (better than 50% of the same breed), or with values of 0.30 or less.


Update: Average as of 10/2020 is 0.32

yukidomari 03-10-2014 01:06

Also, for any interested veterinary professionals:
PennHIP is transitioning to free remote training and certification in order to make the technology more widespread. The distraction instrument of course still must be purchased.


More information:
http://info.antechimagingservices.co...ing-dates.html

yukidomari 22-02-2016 18:21

Łojma II z Peronówki
OFFA Preliminary Excellent / A-1
PennHIP 0.26 / 0.18, no DJD, 90th Percentile (January 2016)

yukidomari 13-06-2016 05:23

List (post 42) updated June 10, 2016. New dogs:

Drake Darkstar Amant Gris and Arimminum O'Lady Vivaldi.

yukidomari 28-08-2019 23:05

List (post #42) updated 8/28/2019. New dogs:


Atria Kaida Sonata Carpathica


Greyfarer Aludra, Ashira, and Azov.

yukidomari 24-10-2020 07:22

New master list 10/2020:


Master List, In alphabetical order by name:

Alaqua Whispering Wolf
OFFA: N/A
PennHIP: 0.33/0.40, no DJD


Greyfarer Aludra
OFA: Excellent (A1)
PennHIP: 0.19/0.18, No DJD


Anthea od Vlci Skaly
OFA: Excellent A1 (25 mos)
FCI: A-1
PennHIP: 0.23/0.37, No DJD (15 mos)

Asha z Dubnicanky
OFFA: Fair (B1)
PennHIP: 0.35/0.40, DJD ?


Greyfarer Ashira
OFA: Good (A2)
PennHIP: 0.19/0.21, No DJD (14 mths)


Atria Kaida Sonata Carpathica
OFA: Good (A2)
PennHIP: 0.46/0.37, No DJD


Greyfarer Azov
OFA: Good (A2)
PennHIP: 0.30/0.33, No DJD


Galomy Oak Baja
OFFA: -
PennHIP: 0.36/0.38, no DJD

Galomy Oak Big Sky (24 months)
OFFA: Good (A2)
PennHIP: 0.32/0.28, No DJD

Churel II z Peronówki
OFA: -
PennHIP: 0.27/0.20, no DJD

Delan van Heimrod
OFA: *
FCI: A
PennHIP: 0.25/0.19, No DJD

Drake Darkstar Amant Gris
OFA: A2/Good
PennHIP: 0.27/0.27, No DJD

Elsa Non Solo Lupo
OFA: Good A2
FCI: *
PennHIP: 0.20/0.20, No DJD

Estia D'ell Olim Palus
OFA: Moderate Unilateral Left
FCI: D
PennHIP: 0.41/0.47, Moderate DJD Unilateral Left

Garm Braterstwo Wilczakow (17 months)
OFFA: Mild Unilateral Right
FCI: C

PennHIP: 0.30/0.24, No DJD

Taabernakkelin Hronsek
OFA: Mild C (27 mos) Unilateral Left
FCI:*
PennHIP: 0.38/0.39, No DJD (17 mos)

Ilysia z Lasow Preczowskich (18 weeks)
OFFA: -
PennHIP: 0.44/0.46, No DJD

Laika Non Solo Lupo
OFA: Good A2
FCI: *
PennHIP: 0.28/0.26, No DJD

Lapua Zlata-Palz
OFFA: N/A
PennHIP: 0.43/(right N/A - cavitated), no DJD

Łojma II z Peronówki
OFFA: Excellent (A-1)
PennHIP: 0.26/0.18, no DJD

Arimminum O'Lady Vivaldi
OFA: -
PennHIP: 0.27/0.26

Piter (Panicucci)
OFA: Fair (B)
FCI: B
PennHIP: 0.26/0.26, No DJD


Q'Chorzyca II z Peronowki
OFA: Moderate
FCI: D
PennHIP: 0.42/0.38


Arimminum Wasabogoa
OFA: Good
FCI:A-2
PennHIP: 0.21/0.30, No DJD

Wintermoon z Lasow Preczowskich
OFFA: Preliminary Good, A-2
PennHIP: 0.26/0.26, No DJD





As of 10/13/2020 the Mean score for CSV is 0.34.


0.27 75th Percentile

0.30 60th Percentile

0.32 50th Percentile

0.40 25th Percentile


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