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-   -   Pituitary Dwarfism test for CsW is available! (http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10756)

mijke 09-04-2009 13:52

Pituitary Dwarfism test for CsW is available!
 
The university of Utrecht did validate the pituitary dwarfism test for the CsW breed :)

And since April 2009 it also possible to test a CsW for pituitary dwarfism!

Unfortunately also in CsW breed several dwarfs (from several lines) are known.

And when 1% is dwarf in a population, 18 % will be carrier of this mutated gen!
And the number of carriers in practice is often much higher than thought
:(

http://www.ursidaestee.wolfdog.org/v...0E%20groot.JPG

But as of now there is no need that more CsW dwarfs will be born!

Because of a simple test can be established if a dog is carrier of this mutated gene.

And not any dog has to be out of breeding program when he/she is carrier.
The only thing is not to make any crossings between carrier x carrier!(of this mutated gen)


Therefore it makes sense to test as much as possible CsW's to see how this mutation in the breed is spread.
And to prevent another CsW dwarf will be ever born, you have to test all CsW's that will be used for breeding!


http://www.ursidaestee.wolfdog.org/v....jpgEgroot.jpg

How an owner can test his CsW for pituitary dwarfism:

Because not all vets will know the test, it can be useful to give them a copy of the article of dr. H. Kooistra en drs. A. Voorbij: Pituitary dwarfism in German shepherd dogs and Saarloos wolfhounds -Availability of a genetic test-
Here you can download this document as pdf file **


A form blood sample is here to download as pdf file ** .

** A pdf file is to open with program Acrobat Reader. You can download this program for free for example Here
  • The owner can fill in all the info about himself and the dog in the form: ”Blood DNA research Pituitary Dwarfism” and sign it.
  • Then the owner can go to his own veterinarian with his CsW, the form the pedigree and a copy of the pedigree.
  • The vet has to check the chip number, fill in the info and has to sign the form.
  • Then he can collect 4ml EDTA blood sample.
The 4 ml blood sample (collected in an EDTA containing tube) can together with the signed form and the copy of the pedigree send by the veterinarian to:

Dr. H.S. Kooistra
Department of Clinical Sciences of Companion Animals
Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Utrecht University
Yalelaan 108
3584 CM Utrecht
The Netherlands


http://www.ursidaestee.wolfdog.org/v...20kleinJPG.JPG
  • After the test the university will send a bill to the owner
  • The costs of this genetic test is Euro 100 (excl. VAT).
  • When the university has received the paying of the owner, they will send him the test result.
  • When the dog is free of dwarfism gen, the owner also receives an official certificate.

Here some general info about pituitary dwarfism:

http://www.ursidaestee.wolfdog.org/v...0E%20groot.JPG

What is pituitary dwarfism:
Dwarfism is a horrible incurable disorder which you don’t wish to any dog. A dwarf has a badly developed pituitary , which means that certain hormones (such as growth hormones) are not produced. Due to the shortage of the production of the thyroid stimulating hormone, they have a slow functioning thyroid. Besides the fact that these dogs stay small, they are also haunted by various horrible side effects (e.g. baldness, itching, inflammations, malfunctioning of the liver and kidneys, slow behaviour) when they are not treated with medicines on a daily basis.

http://www.de-ursidae-stee.com/wolfd...0dwergroei.jpg

Recognising and existence of dwarfism in a breed:
Dwarfism is not always recognised by a breeder!!
Many dwarfs die in the uterus or die during the birth.
And moreover 90% of the living born dwarfs die in the first week.
Pups behind in growth are often not recognised as dwarfs. After (4 weeks or later) people see that a pup is different in comparison with the other pups. Dwarfism is known in the breeds German Shepherd, Karelische Bearsdog, Saarlooswolfhond and the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog.

http://www.de-ursidae-stee.com/wolfd...%20en%20DH.jpg

Mikael 09-04-2009 14:08

The CsV breed and future puppies thanks you for your EXCELLENT WORK !!! :tard

Very best regards / Mikael & Hronec

Rona 09-04-2009 14:34

:cool3 Well done Mijke.

Juniorwolf 09-04-2009 15:36

Thanks a lot for your effort Mijke :cool3 :love

I will test both of my dogs soon...

Greetings Rolf

mijke 09-05-2009 23:06

Last update May 2009:

8 CsW’s were already tested (7 from Holland and 1 of Belgium)

From these CsW’s are 6 free of this gen mutation.

And 2 are carrier of dwarfism gen. One of them is from Dutch breeding line and the other was imported from CZ.

When I have received the copy’s of this results, I’ll publish all the info (with names of the dogs)

GalomyOak 10-05-2009 03:29

Scary...:|

But very good that there is a test now...Thanks for all of the work and updates, Mijke...

Marcy

DanielZ 10-05-2009 08:53

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8671/on1n.jpg
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9233/on2h.jpg
Sorry but I have a problem with adding photos :)

Hanka 10-05-2009 12:43

Daniel, are you sure it is dwarf puppy? Because this type of coat is normal coat of adult dog. Can it be only hybrid?

Please if somebody know about more pups, write info to Mijke. She can make "map" of this mutation in population. It is very interest and we want find "first wolfdog" which was carier of this.
I am sure, it must be in population more than we know now.

Nobody will write names of parents,pups with it, if will not be agreement from owner.

DanielZ 10-05-2009 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka (Bericht 211077)
Daniel, are you sure it is dwarf puppy? Because this type of coat is normal coat of adult dog. Can it be only hybrid?

Please if somebody know about more pups, write info to Mijke. She can make "map" of this mutation in population. It is very interest and we want find "first wolfdog" which was carier of this.
I am sure, it must be in population more than we know now.

Nobody will write names of parents,pups with it, if will not be agreement from owner.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9233/on2h.jpg
It is a dwarf German Shepherd .In German Shepherd sometimes born dwarf. They live about 4-5 years. In


In the Polish "A friend of Dog" a few years ago was an article on dwarf dogs.

jmvdwiel 10-05-2009 22:19

there are a few different types of dwarfism in the dog. The pituitary is one type and for this type there is a test for now.

this dig doesn't look like a pituitary type of dwarf for me. But maybe this dog did get some supplements of the missing hormoons?? For the GSD this test was validated a little while ago so was this dog tested?

For me this dog has a fairly normal coat (on the picture) , it almost has the shape of a dashund as if his long bones didn't grow enough, but on the other had it has a kined of a foxy head, so it can be a pituirary dwarf but it also could have an other cause.

jmvdwiel 10-05-2009 22:29

on the dutch forum there is a topic called
Uitslagen DNA test hypofysaire dwerggroei = Results from the DNA test

in this topic there wil be only names of the tested dogs with the results

VRIJ = Free of the mutation
Drager = Carier of the mutation

So everybody can check that topic to see and find out the results from the tested dogs.

SO THAT TOPIC IS NO PLACE FOR DISCUSSIONS!!

Juniorwolf 24-07-2009 14:31

I just got DNA-results from University of Utrecht and both Uno and Xtreme are free of the mutated gene that causes Pituitary Dwarfism :)

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1603/unodwarfism.jpg

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/384...medwarfism.jpg

Mikael 24-07-2009 23:57

Congratulations to everybody whit good results :)

How many dogs has been tested this far and can one say anything yet about how common the Dwarf gene is on the CsV breed ???

Or will there be a statistic report about the Dwarf gene, when enough data is collected ???

Very best regards / Mikael

Juniorwolf 25-07-2009 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael (Bericht 226426)
How many dogs has been tested this far and can one say anything yet about how common the Dwarf gene is on the CsV breed ???

Take a look here : http://www.wolfdog-healthinfo.org/pageID_7976969.html

I guess the results of my dogs will be uploaded as soon as Mijke have time :)

Greetings Rolf

Mikael 27-07-2009 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolf (Bericht 226431)
Take a look here : http://www.wolfdog-healthinfo.org/pageID_7976969.html

I guess the results of my dogs will be uploaded as soon as Mijke have time :)

Greetings Rolf

Thanks :)

Best regards / Mikael

mijke 05-08-2009 15:34

Thanks Rolf! :cool3
The test results of your dogs will be visible at the Wolfdog health site at the end of this week:)

Beside your dogs were also 11 in Holland registered CsW’s tested. This owners did use the blood sample form of the Dutch CsW club.
And on this form is that the results will be send to the secretariat of the club for publishing.
So I did wait a while for these results of the club, but till today I did not receive anything :cry:

I also did hear of the university that several people did not agree with publishing the info of the test results! :evil:
So the info was only send to the owners.:cry:

So the tests of these owners are worthless for the CsW breed!! :shock:
It is very, very sad and stupid, that there are owners who are making (expensive tests) and keep the results secret.:roll:

I hope in future the dwarfism test will be accepted and obligated by kennel organisations. So the results of this test will come, just like HD results, on the pedigree of offspring!

Nebulosa 09-12-2009 21:31

I saw the "actualization" at the nederland forum that we have already 30 dgs tested with the results published.
The results are very interessing for the breeders and I'm sure some people want to test his dogs for this, but the main problem seems to be... the price is too high for some people.
So I was wondering about, if we get one ammount of owners (upper than the actual number of tested dogs) willing to make this test in his dogs, would have the possibility of the university turn the price of the test lower?

jmvdwiel 09-12-2009 21:47

maybe they are willing to make a discount when you can give them 50 or more samples at one time? :)

Maybe Mijke can ask them, she is the one with the connections ;)

But what do you think about the fact that there are 6 of the 30 dogs carriers of this gen?

Nebulosa 09-12-2009 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmvdwiel (Bericht 261354)
maybe they are willing to make a discount when you can give them 50 or more samples at one time? :)

Maybe Mijke can ask them, she is the one with the connections ;)

But what do you think about the fact that there are 6 of the 30 dogs carriers of this gen?

Was exactly the results which makes me worrie about the breed situation for this disease and ask about one possible discount. :lol:
I found the number of carriers too high for so few dogs tested, in a breed with small genetic pool like CzW its can means more serious problems than we tought.

mijke 09-12-2009 23:29

There were 30 CsW’s tested for Pituitary Dwarfism.
Of these 30 CsW’s were 6 carriers of the mutated gen.


On the site wolfdog-healthinfo.org you can find the test results. Click HERE

Because 1/5 of the tested dogs was carrier, it is very useful to test more CsW’s!
Only then we can see how this disease is spread in the population ;-)

And it is entirely useful for breeders to test for breeding!
And especial when you want to breed with offspring, brother/ sisters, parents and ancestors of carriers of dwarfism gen.

But even when a male or female is carrier, it is no problem to breed with them!

Not any carrier has to excluded for breeding!

Only don’t make combinations of carrier x carrier!

On top of this topic you can find how an owner can test a CsW for Pituitary Dwarfism.
And you also can find there a link for the blood sample form.

mijke 10-12-2009 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebulosa (Bericht 261347)
but the main problem seems to be... the price is too high for some people.
So I was wondering about, if we get one ammount of owners (upper than the actual number of tested dogs) willing to make this test in his dogs, would have the possibility of the university turn the price of the test lower?


Quote:

Originally Posted by jmvdwiel (Bericht 261354)
maybe they are willing to make a discount when you can give them 50 or more samples at one time? :)
Maybe Mijke can ask them, she is the one with the connections ;)

I agree it is a high price to test a dog for this disease.:roll:

And of course I am willing to try to get discount when we are able to send 50 blood samples in one time.
But I doubt if it is really possible to send such an amount of samples in one time!

Maybe it is only possible when we collect blood on a event like World dog show :)
And I am willing to come over with a vet on such an event and take the blood samples for free! (owners then only have to pay for the test of the university)

And till that time I only can hope that more owners realize it is important to test their CsW.
A lot of owners are still thinking pituitary dwarfism is not a big issue in this breed, they don’t test. :(

But when 1/5 of the 30 tested dogs from different combinations/lines are carrier , it is probably a big issue in a breed.

And when a breeder counts €25 more for each pup they sell, with one litter they can earn the costs of a pituitary dwarfism test :)

mijke 08-01-2010 00:12

I feel very sad that in other forum topics people make sometimes accusations and blame each other for health problems.:(

Because it has been never good for any breed when people did make accusations to breeders about health problems. It is really the most silly thing people can do! :shock:

Please realize we don't have a perfect breed! Not any breeder wants to have health problems in his/her lines, but realize we all 'll have in this relative small gene pool ! (small or big, known or still hidden)

And only when we work together , we can work on health problems in a breed.:fingers1


And for pituitary dwarfism it is really simple: not any dog has to be out of breeding program (not any carrier is a danger for the breed!), only don't make combinations carrier x carrier.

And please don't make anymore a secret of the health problems in our breed!
Only when we can share the info like HD results, eye results and so on we can improve the breed!


In the past no one did hear, or did not know, or did not want to speak about dwarfism. even sometimes it was denied. But after that I did make this more public, more and more info was received from several countries. (even dwarf photo's with names)

And now we have 30 honest owners who did make the official test and did publish the results! (only by DNA blood test we can be sure that it is really pituitary dwarfism.)

I am very grateful this people did want to do the best for the breed and did want to share the info with us!

And I hope there will follow more people and countries who want test and honest share the test results :)


Blood Test:
A form blood sample is Here to download as pdf file

About price for the test:
I realize it is a high price for everyone! :?
I often receive the comment that it is a to high for people in east European countries. And I can imagine that is problem for normal owners.
But most of the breeders in east Europe are asking the same prices like West Europe around € 1000 (and that is a lot more then I did ever ask for a pup of any breed!)
But as I did write before when a breeder counts €25 more for each pup they sell, with one litter they can earn the costs of a pituitary dwarfism test :)

About dwarfs:
Every born dwarf needs medication (special grow hormone and thyrax) to provide awful suffering. It is very hard to get the special grow hormone. People who have a dwarf can contact me in private to speak about possible solutions. [email protected]

When a dwarf is under control by specialists and will get medicines they can grow up like this:
http://www.ursidaestee.wolfdog.org/v...pup%20Lilo.jpg
Lilo 18 months, 18 kg and 52 cm.

My requests:
  • Please test your CsW
  • And please contact me when you think about euthanizing your dwarf (I can give you more info in private)


http://www.ursidaestee.wolfdog.org/v...20pict9763.jpg

Rona 08-01-2010 14:31

Mijke, I have a question, maybe naive, but I had classes in genetics only at school, and that was very long time ago. ;):p

Am I right assuming that if a carrier is matched with a carrier, absolutely every pup born from this match is a carrier of the gene, only most of them do not simply develop the illness... ?

In that case there is no need to test parents and full sibilings of dwarfs, because they would be 100% carriers.

But there is definitely sense in testing first ONE parent of a carrier (if he/she's free, there is no need to test the other one) or/and half-sibilings of carriers, because some of them might have taken the gene after their carrier-mother or carrier-father and some not. Does my reasoning make sense?

I'm asking, because if breeders openly declared in which litters there were dwarf puppies born, some owners would not have to test their dogs to learn the positive results (ie dwarf+). 8)

On the other hand I suppose sometimes it's hard to recognize the true reason of a very young puppy's death - it could be either dwarfism or some other genetic or inborn malformation.

michaelundinaeichhorn 08-01-2010 14:57

I am not Mijke but will answer.
If you declare a carrier as p(ositive for dwarf)/n(negative for dwarf), it means that in an egg or a sperm there is only one p or one n, in combining two carriers you get the possible pairings p/p, p/n and n/n. what means you can get negativ (no dwarf gene) dogs by pairing two carriers. The only problem is you might get some p/p out of this pairing.

Ina

jefta 08-01-2010 16:20

so, all puppys after parents n/n + n/n get a certificate without testing?

saschia 08-01-2010 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jefta (Bericht 268167)
so, all puppys after parents n/n + n/n get a certificate without testing?

In theory, puppies after clear parents are also clear, but there is always very low, but not nonexistent, probability of spontaneous mutation in the gene. Bad thing is, this mutation would probably not be recognized by the test. But this is true for any genetic illness. And the probability is so low that it can be ignored for most purposes (unless dwarves start to be born after clear parents).

In my opinion, to get a certificate, the pups should either be tested for the gene itself, or for the paternity of the proclaimed parents (which might be more economic if the parents have certificates for several genetic disorders - but I am not sure if it would be accepted).

Rona 08-01-2010 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn (Bericht 268132)
I am not Mijke but will answer.
If you declare a carrier as p(ositive for dwarf)/n(negative for dwarf), it means that in an egg or a sperm there is only one p or one n, in combining two carriers you get the possible pairings p/p, p/n and n/n. what means you can get negativ (no dwarf gene) dogs by pairing two carriers. The only problem is you might get some p/p out of this pairing.

Ina

This means each dog should be checked individually wheather it is nn, np or pp. 8) No shortcuts :(, as usually in life 8)
Thanks for the explanation, Ina.

jefta 08-01-2010 18:06

I think its good time for discusion about N/N puppys (after parents,no tested) before? first litter is born.

My arguments:

pro-
*economy-genetic test is expensive (more than 100 E), so what is a sense to test dogs which are for 99,9% free?
*motivation for breeders to test own dogs-extra incentive to buy the puppys or use stud dogs.

contra-
*discrimination breeders/stud dog owners which can't get cetificat because of using carrier (negative occurrence in so small populacion)

saschia 08-01-2010 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by jefta (Bericht 268189)
pro-
*economy-genetic test is expensive (more than 100 E), so what is a sense to test dogs which are for 99,9% free?

This is true - and there is very low probability that a new mutation would be safely recognized by the existing test.
But you would still need to test them at least for the parentage. That would actually be advantageous in my opinion, as paternity and maternity certificates would ensure no cheating in CW/SW crossing for example...

But back to the original topic - in todays situation, unfortunately, the most responsible breeders, that means the ones who invest in all the health tests available, and do not hide the results, are the ones that would actually be disadvantaged, unless the buyers are very well educated in these problem and actively select only puppies from responsible owners and are prepared to pay more for that certificates. Which is unfortunately not true yet. Most of buyers are newcomers to the breed and most of them only want a dog for friendship and fun and prefer to pay less and to buy locally. Or they want dogs for shows and buy only after champions, even if those champions got their titles from referees who have never seen a wolfdog in their lives.

Vaiva 08-01-2010 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke (Bericht 268029)

About price for the test:
I realize it is a high price for everyone! :?
I often receive the comment that it is a to high for people in east European countries. And I can imagine that is problem for normal owners.
But most of the breeders in east Europe are asking the same prices like West Europe around € 1000 (and that is a lot more then I did ever ask for a pup of any breed!)
But as I did write before when a breeder counts €25 more for each pup they sell, with one litter they can earn the costs of a pituitary dwarfism test :)

Ok, I do understand the importance of the test, BUT.
What is the minimum fixed salary in Your country? :)
To make the things more clear: I live in Lithuania, I am a 26 year-old woman, who was studying journalism in Vilnius university. In my still young years I've been working as a journalist, as a public relation specialist in the Ministry of Health, in an international PR company, etc. At the moment I am the author of a TV show (regional TV) about dogs, it means that I do ALL the work in the show, except of camera. And NEVER in my life (hopefully YET :lol:) my salary haven't reached 1000 euro per month :lol: Is the situation about Eastern Europe more clear in this light? :lol:

mijke 09-01-2010 03:04

For your age the minimum fixed gross salary (without the 30 % tax you have to pay for this) is in my country about € 1270,- ( the same as family without work with 2 kids gets) So don't think the fairy tales about the "LUXERY WEST EUROPE" are always true for everyone here! (I know a boy of 26 with 2 different official university degrees who earns gross salary € 1850 (without the 30 % tax) and that is not any exception.)
Only the "happy few" here make more then 2 or 3 times double.;-)


But for me it is not interesting at all to discuss about salary, price of puppy's and so on!
For everyone it is a relative high price!:( And when the university sell the test in e few years to a commercial laboratory, it depends of "the market" if it become higher or less.

For everyone for who is breeding as a hobby to improve a breed, it costs money (like every other hobby!)

And for your info: I don't have any benefits for this test! And I did make the test with my female after she was sterilized.;)

But it is always the personal choice of a owner/breeder to invest in any DNA test for the benefit of the breed for the future.:)
And when they don't make combinations carrier x carrier they have affords (like for example no dwarfs in a litter, less dead born pups or pups that die in first days, bigger litter. Because pituitary dwarfism is/can be the reason for these things)

And till today I am very grateful that some Dutch, Belgium and Denmark people did invest a lot of money in the test, without any obligation!
AND that they did gave permission to publish test results!


Thanks to them we could see that in 30 tested CsW's from different lines were 6 carriers.
And it is clear that this disease is more spread in the bread then we did expect.
And even when others don't test, dwarfism is one of the real problems in this bread.


But in the 6 carriers are also good CsW's (conform bonitation and HD) that will be breed in future! :cool3
And that is good , because excluding all dogs that are carrier of this or other genetic diseases would destroy a breed!
When your male or female is carrier just ask the other party to make a test!

Vaiva 09-01-2010 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke (Bericht 268324)
For your age the minimum fixed gross salary (without the 30 % tax you have to pay for this) is in my country about € 1270,- ( the same as family without work with 2 kids gets) So don't think the fairy tales about the "LUXERY WEST EUROPE" are always true for everyone here!

And the minimum fixed salary in Lithuania is a little bit more than 200 euro :lol: (also you still have to pay the tax, if I am not mistaken)
But it is not the topic.
Maybe I've mist something, but what is the reason it is not possible to make the same test in other countries, other labs? :roll: Maybe that would be the simple way of making more DNA tests for wolfdogs?

michaelundinaeichhorn 09-01-2010 09:42

DNA tests normally are invented by a research-group, they nowadays get a patent (I hope the word is the same in English) and then use it themself or sell it to a commercial lab. DNA-research is expensive, at least in Germany the universities have a chronic lack of money. This is the reason why very often only one lab has the test. Other groups work on the same problems or improve the first published test so on long term there are more labs and cheaper tests.
But DNA-testing is at its beginning it will take time.

This brings us back to the idea of an international DNA-database. Mijke has found a cheap lab as far as I remember. Everybody can look in his own country for tests and labs and we can use it alltogether.

Ina

Vaiva 09-01-2010 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn (Bericht 268329)
DNA tests normally are invented by a research-group, they nowadays get a patent (I hope the word is the same in English) and then use it themself or sell it to a commercial lab. DNA-research is expensive, at least in Germany the universities have a chronic lack of money. This is the reason why very often only one lab has the test. Other groups work on the same problems or improve the first published test so on long term there are more labs and cheaper tests.
But DNA-testing is at its beginning it will take time.

This brings us back to the idea of an international DNA-database. Mijke has found a cheap lab as far as I remember. Everybody can look in his own country for tests and labs and we can use it alltogether.

Ina

Sorry if my questions sound stupidly, but I really do not understand anything about the way these tests are done. A lab in Lithuania, making DNA tests for people and dogs (for dogs only to check if the parents are the same as written in pedigrees :rock_3) says, that they have a possibility to make any tests, they just need to buy the samples :roll: So I could ask them about the possibility to make the tests in Lithuania - maybe that would be cheaper? I just need to know if the same test suits for, let's say, GSD :roll: Could anyone be so kind and explain this more clearly? :oops:

michaelundinaeichhorn 09-01-2010 10:22

To do a test you have to know exactly what gene causes the disease, so first you start with finding out if a disease is inherited and which way is likely (recessiv, dominant, autosomal, etc) than you need to find out which mutation of a gene ore genes (more often and much more complicated) causes it. For that you need a group of dogs with this disease. Then you build up a test for marking this mutation, then you verify the test for the breed you worked with (look if it really shows all carriers and ill dogs), the you make the next step to find out of the same disease is caused by the same mutation in different breeds (what is very often not the case!) and verify it for different breeds. This takes very often years.

You are carfull in publishing during this period because very often there are different groups working on one problem and who is succesfull first earns the money and the fame.

jmvdwiel 09-01-2010 10:26

I don't think the test is being sold yet ;) , the university did put a lot of energy and money in it to develop the test. And of course they have to get some money back before they wil sell the test.
The test was very hard to develop because the dwarf-allele where hard to find in the DNA.

But maybe.. if you can get lots of samples (about 50 or so) maybe they are willing to give you some discount.
In Holland we managed to get 7 samples at the clubmatch, so I think it would be possible for other countries to get more samples. Maybe you can find a veterinarian that want to draw some blood for free as a hobby ;) (just like we did in Holland)
Maybe it is possible to fundraise some money especially for the dwarf test, and what you can do is only testing the new parents of litters and ask a little bit more for the puppies.
Ans as Maike says probably you wil end with more alive puppies in a litter and only if you have 1 pup more in a litter you wil have your money back from the test.

mijke 09-01-2010 16:10

Thanks Ina and Judith for explanation! :)

The university is working on the specific scientific report that will be published. When it is published they will also sell the test to a commercial laboratory.

In the mean time they did not want to lose time for breeds that they can test now (GSD, SWH and CsW) So besides their other work they make the test .

I don't know if they have possibility (time) to test a very big group and give discount.
But I already did ask them to think about this. ;)
And they did promise me to think and speak about this.
Next week I hope to receive their answer. :)

canislupus 10-01-2010 17:33

Hello,

I will test my two dogs as well, so we can start counting with them... ;)

Tanja

Vaiva 11-01-2010 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke (Bericht 268393)
Thanks Ina and Judith for explanation! :)

The university is working on the specific scientific report that will be published. When it is published they will also sell the test to a commercial laboratory.

In the mean time they did not want to lose time for breeds that they can test now (GSD, SWH and CsW) So besides their other work they make the test .

I don't know if they have possibility (time) to test a very big group and give discount.
But I already did ask them to think about this. ;)
And they did promise me to think and speak about this.
Next week I hope to receive their answer. :)

I also sent a request to the lab in LT, you know, just in case :) If this test also "works" for GSD, that makes more possibilities to make it also here.

michaelundinaeichhorn 11-01-2010 18:39

Ask for all tests they offer it is quite likely they are a little bit cheaper. It doesn´t matter where the lab is as long as the tests are done properly.

Vaiva 11-01-2010 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn (Bericht 268881)
Ask for all tests they offer it is quite likely they are a little bit cheaper. It doesn´t matter where the lab is as long as the tests are done properly.

They say they could make any tests, that have demand. If a certain number of interested people is collected, thay are ready to buy the patents needed. It is a pitty, but at the moment it seems like only paternity tests are interesting to dog owners in Lithuania.
If I knew the certain names of tests, interesting to our breeed, I could send them a request.

mijke 17-01-2010 02:53

The patent of the dwarfism test is not sold yet to any lab.
And I hope in future a lab can buy it and offer the test for cheap price! :)

On this moment some labs in West Europe do offer the same test (for same or higher prices), but they all send the blood samples to the Uni of Utrecht (Holland) ;)

In the mean time I did make an agreement with the university:
When I am able to send at least 30 bloodsamples in one time (with payment before test) they will make the test for € 80 (without tax) for each dog instead of the €100.

I also can offer to come over with a friend of mine who is a vet, to collect the blood for free.
So when you organise an event with more CsW's and you are willing to make a dwarfism test for at least 30 CsW's, just contact me in private about possibillity's! [email protected]

Hanka 22-01-2010 15:40

Because we know, now exist "new, fresh" dwarf pups in litters, I want write to all breeders which have these pups in litter: PLEASE contact Mijke and help us to collect blood.
Don´t kill pups when you will know it- it is dwarf - and help us.
Maybe in this moment the breeders does not know it, but they can see it a few days or weeks later.
Thanks Hanka

martiou07 08-12-2010 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke (Bericht 261518)

Maybe it is only possible when we collect blood on a event like World dog show :)
And I am willing to come over with a vet on such an event and take the blood samples for free! (owners then only have to pay for the test of the university)

let us can consider that at the world dog show in Paris?

also, it would be necessary which you would be on the maximum of anybody wishes to do it, but I think, he can be possible on each forum of wolfdog.org to envisage that.

that will allow to advance a maximum for the tests of the nanism and DM...

Shadowlands 08-02-2011 14:05

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post Pituitary Dwarfism test results but today I received the result from Laboklin for

Wolfy von Konigs-Terry: genome N/N

We are happy :)

Again only by email but hopefully the certificates will follow soon.

Mijke, I have forwarded the email to wolfdog-healthinfo for you.

mijke 08-02-2011 16:09

Thanks I will add next update! :)

Backman 06-04-2011 20:51

DNA test for pituary dwarfism:

Blazy de la Louve Blanche
Dream Wolf de la Louve Blanche
Crying Wolf Luka
Forever Wolf Arctic Hero
Forever Wolf Arctic Angel
Forever Wolf Arctic Storm

ALL CLEAR OF THE MUTATION !

Jenny

Hanka 18-04-2011 10:59

Dero Sotis - clear of mutation

*Satu 18-04-2011 17:16

Baron spod Dumbiera - clear of mutation
Wolfsirius Sleeping Storm -clear of mutation
Basior Jantarowa Wataha - clear of mutation
Ikala spod Dumbiera - clear of mutation
Elys spod Dumbiera - carrier of mutation

so Taabernakkelin K-litter will be clear of mutation

rest 2 Finlandya and Andradite I give later...

leila 04-06-2011 14:46

Gunner Malý Bysterec - CLEAR of the mutation!

robertomaggio 05-06-2011 17:53

Information
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke (Bericht 268324)
For your age the minimum fixed gross salary (without the 30 % tax you have to pay for this) is in my country about € 1270,- ( the same as family without work with 2 kids gets) So don't think the fairy tales about the "LUXERY WEST EUROPE" are always true for everyone here! (I know a boy of 26 with 2 different official university degrees who earns gross salary € 1850 (without the 30 % tax) and that is not any exception.)
Only the "happy few" here make more then 2 or 3 times double.;-)


But for me it is not interesting at all to discuss about salary, price of puppy's and so on!
For everyone it is a relative high price!:( And when the university sell the test in e few years to a commercial laboratory, it depends of "the market" if it become higher or less.

For everyone for who is breeding as a hobby to improve a breed, it costs money (like every other hobby!)

And for your info: I don't have any benefits for this test! And I did make the test with my female after she was sterilized.;)

But it is always the personal choice of a owner/breeder to invest in any DNA test for the benefit of the breed for the future.:)
And when they don't make combinations carrier x carrier they have affords (like for example no dwarfs in a litter, less dead born pups or pups that die in first days, bigger litter. Because pituitary dwarfism is/can be the reason for these things)

And till today I am very grateful that some Dutch, Belgium and Denmark people did invest a lot of money in the test, without any obligation!
AND that they did gave permission to publish test results!

Thanks to them we could see that in 30 tested CsW's from different lines were 6 carriers.
And it is clear that this disease is more spread in the bread then we did expect.
And even when others don't test, dwarfism is one of the real problems in this bread.

But in the 6 carriers are also good CsW's (conform bonitation and HD) that will be breed in future! :cool3
And that is good , because excluding all dogs that are carrier of this or other genetic diseases would destroy a breed!
When your male or female is carrier just ask the other party to make a test!


Hello Mijke
I'm Roberto from Italia and I just make test of DM,Hd etcc in all my dogs and now I want to make test for Dwarfism but I receive this mail back from LABOKLIN:
Hello,

"we test the mutation that is known to cause dwarfism. The test does not exclude dwarfism due to possible but yet unknwon further mutation or non genetic backround."

At this point I'm not sure about guarantee that if my dogs are CLEAR in future will be possible that gene change etccc.
Sorry if I don't understand well but I'm sure that you can help me in correct explanation
Ciao
Roberto

mijke 07-06-2011 23:46

The univeristy of Holland is on this moment the only place where the dwarfism test can be done.
Also Laboklin is sending DNA of dogs to holland for the dwarfism test.

The Dwarfism test is testing if a dog has the gene mutation for Pituitary dwarfism.
When you have test a dog and he is Free he will be always Free for this gene mutation!

All the Csw dwarfs that were tested did have the same gene mutation that causes pituitary dwarfism.
But as metionend before : there are sometimes other reasons why a dog is very small. And this has nothing to do with pituitary dwarfism! ;-)

It is very strange that Laboklin did send such mails about the dwarfims test.
Because there can always appear new gene mutations in a breed.
And theoretical it is possible that there will appear in future an other gene mutation that causes an other form of a disease.

But that is possible for all the genetic diseases we know now!!;-)
So it is a bit strange to mention this only for pituitary dwarfism! :twisted:

yukidomari 09-06-2011 23:14

Hello,

To anyone that has had this test done, I was wondering something..

Does the blood sample has to be spun and separated from the clot? We did the rabies antibody test before and this was the procedure, but I am not sure if it is the same for also this test.

Also, the sample must be sent express overnight, correct?

Thank you.

jmvdwiel 09-06-2011 23:32

You must sent EDTA blood for DNA testing , no centrifugation!!!

Try to get the blood to the lab as fresh as possible, a copple of day's won't be a problem

yukidomari 09-06-2011 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmvdwiel (Bericht 384568)
You must sent EDTA blood for DNA testing , no centrifugation!!!

Try to get the blood to the lab as fresh as possible, a copple of day's won't be a problem

I forgot to add that I do not know what "EDTA" is, but I read something now and I understand it to be some sort of anticoagulant that is already in the tube.

Thank you!!!

GalomyOak 10-06-2011 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari (Bericht 384571)
I forgot to add that I do not know what "EDTA" is, but I read something now and I understand it to be some sort of anticoagulant that is already in the tube.

Thank you!!!

Purple top tube. The sample I sent for DM to Missouri had to be placed on a (heavy) chillpack, and then insulated according to postal regulation in a box inside a box (one had to be leakproof). I had to send 5 tubes, but I think that was part of the study UofM was doing. It cost me $65 to send the blood from Virginia to Missouri overnight. I think my vet charged me like $15-20 for the blood draw. Vets will often have little insulated boxes and freeze packs that they get with meds that they will give you. I'm not sure if there are any customs regulations related to exporting blood from the US? Laboklin offers a buccal (saliva) test, but it costs more (all testing still done in Utrecht). Maybe it's possible to send these swabs directly to Utrecht instead?

yukidomari 10-06-2011 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalomyOak (Bericht 384590)
I'm not sure if there are any customs regulations related to exporting blood from the US? Laboklin offers a buccal (saliva) test, but it costs more (all testing still done in Utrecht). Maybe it's possible to send these swabs directly to Utrecht instead?

I found this: http://www.biofocus.de/PDF/Onkologie...e_Handling.pdf

It's for human blood sampling but I assume shipping-wise largely the same? Anyway, when have the test done I will call FedEx and confirm. Thanks for the heads up though. I hadn't thought about that yet. Does anyone know if the blood samples to Utrecht also have to be chilled?

Shadowlands 10-06-2011 08:12

I had a real problem with sending our samples as the post from Bulgaria is awful and no courier would take it. My solution? Wait till I was travelling to the UK myself, have the blood drawn the day before and, keeping it cool with ice packs, packed it into my luggage. On arrival in the UK, I sent it off - so it was probably nearly 5 days old by the time it arrived at Laboklin (and then had to be sent out to Utrecht, but I guess they would have done some processing first??), but there were no problems reported. I was really worried for a while that the samples would be no good :nervous. Now we have DNA stored at Laboklin so I don't have to worry in the future if I decide to have any other tests done.

yukidomari 26-01-2012 20:34

We have successfully sent blood samples to the Netherlands now, with much thanks to Mijke. The university now has our samples and we are awaiting results back soon. :)

So, posting from the USA is not a problem .. this test is accessible and the bill will be sent to you once the testing is complete. Because the bill is posted to the owner and not necessarily the person submitting the test, it will be no financial burden to the breeder - we have also asked overseas breeders whose puppies we plan to have to do the testing before we fetch the puppies, so that it can be posted from within Europe.

It may be a helpful thing to ask!

GalomyOak 27-01-2012 00:59

We may...may have something in the works with UofM soon...8)

yukidomari 27-01-2012 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalomyOak (Bericht 420465)
We may...may have something in the works with UofM soon...8)

Cool! I'd asked University of Missouri a while back, and at the time they did not have anything planned for it. Glad to hear it may be moving forward..

ETA: My correspondence with them was June 2011.

yukidomari 27-03-2012 17:52

Many thanks to Ms. van Heyningen, we were able to submit the samples and did receive our results back already. I will send copies of the certificates once we receive them. :)

robertomaggio 03-04-2012 16:45

DNA test for pituary dwarfism Laboklin for dog from my kennel:

STORM ARIMMINUM : N/N
LAYLA ZLATA PALZ : N/N
ANISH PURA GIOIA :N/N
ELLIS Z BLATNICKYCH VINIC: N/N

Roberto

Bajka 04-06-2012 14:59

So another brave tested dogs:):)We just receive mail form Utrecht Univ. My girls:

Clair de Lune Srdcervac - free
Kalaratri z Peronówki - career
:):)

Thanks to Mrs Mijke for everything, help and info:)

canislupus 08-06-2012 14:18

I got result from Utrecht too:

Catori Liza Whispering Wolf, free for dwarfism :lol:

Tanja

yukidomari 15-06-2012 20:45

Pituitary Dwarfism results from the University of Utrecht will now be recognized by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFFA).

To log the results officially from anywhere in the world, return a copy of this form:
http://www.offa.org/pdf/dnaapp_bw.pdf

along with a copy of the Certificate from the University of Utrecht. There are special kennel and litter rates available, and as always, affected results are registered gratis.

While this test is only an optional recommended test set forth by the Czechoslovakian Club of America and accepted by Canine Health Information Center (CHIC), it is nonetheless a valuable test. Along with wolfdog-healthinfo.org, this will help to build a searchable and open database on tested dogs in hopes of continuing the health legacy of this breed.

Shadowlands 17-06-2012 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari (Bericht 432478)
Pituitary Dwarfism results from the University of Utrecht will now be recognized by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFFA).

To log the results officially from anywhere in the world, return a copy of this form:
http://www.offa.org/pdf/dnaapp_bw.pdf

along with a copy of the Certificate from the University of Utrecht. There are special kennel and litter rates available, and as always, affected results are registered gratis.

While this test is only an optional recommended test set forth by the Czechoslovakian Club of America and accepted by Canine Health Information Center (CHIC), it is nonetheless a valuable test. Along with wolfdog-healthinfo.org, this will help to build a searchable and open database on tested dogs in hopes of continuing the health legacy of this breed.

Fantastic! Will they only accept a copy of the certificate? Our test sample was sent to Utrecht via Laboklin; we only received a letter from Laboklin giving the result - no certificate. If the certificate is essential, I shall get chasing that next week.

mijke 17-06-2012 22:40

Thanks to cooperative owners that did agree with public publication of test results, we could make a new update! :)))
The update of dwarfism test results of june 2012 is to find HERE

yukidomari 19-06-2012 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlands (Bericht 432594)
Fantastic! Will they only accept a copy of the certificate? Our test sample was sent to Utrecht via Laboklin; we only received a letter from Laboklin giving the result - no certificate. If the certificate is essential, I shall get chasing that next week.

I don't know if they will accept the letter from Laboklin.. you may try to write and find out, but I know for sure the Certificate from Utrecht is accepted.

yukidomari 12-04-2013 22:01

Churel II z Peronowki - Clear of the mutation that carries Pituitary Dwarfism. :)

simo 03-05-2013 16:09

Re
 
Goja Olim Palus N/N Dwarf
Gradisca Olim Palus N/N Dwarf
The Litter O..Olim Palus all puppies N/N Dwarf.

Andrew86 05-05-2013 11:29

Zela z Peronowki is N/N

Bajka 05-05-2013 12:05

Because Clair de Lune Srdcervac is N/N and now we know Namanaslu Arimminum is N/N too, all our litter "B" Wilk z baśni is Dwarfism-N/N ! :) :) They are DM-N/N too :)

MariNoor 14-05-2013 07:24

Blizzard Amant Gris : Dwarf free

leila 16-05-2013 11:42

Akia Tawy - non affected!!! N/N

Jana Zítková 20-05-2013 22:43

Asta Jasmine Eyes DW N/N
Altyr z Podřipské samoty DW N/N
Altara Maia z Podřipské samoty DW N/A
(Slovgen s.r.o., SK)

Shadowlands 24-05-2013 13:22

Could someone please send me details of the Slovgen s.r.o. labs please? I would like to have Bodi and BJ tested.

saschia 24-05-2013 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlands (Bericht 454635)
Could someone please send me details of the Slovgen s.r.o. labs please? I would like to have Bodi and BJ tested.

http://www.slovgen.sk/kontakt/

I saw some time ago some things in English on their webpage but even if everything is Slovak, the personnel should be able to communicate in English.

SARKA 14-08-2013 08:22

DNA test for pituary dwarfism Laboklin

Arimminum Makuyi N/N
Arimminum Namanaslù N/N
Arimminum Andromeda N/N
Arimminum Olcan N/N
Arimminum Blaze of Glory N/N
Arimminum Exian N/N
Arimminum Nouau N/N
Arimminum Ave Tajga N/N
Arimminum Big Wakan Wolf N/N

SARKA 16-08-2013 17:09

Arimminum Ginevra N/N


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