What is this?
 

Guess what this is....
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3561/dsc07293.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/359/dsc07292b.jpg

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8...ukina10m21.jpg

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8691/didabella2.jpg

Pics are from a friend... You wish you owned a wolf too? no...it's just a product italian breeder...
Yep...that's what Italian breeding can do...
massimo

Wow, Very very beautiful !!

What is official name of this............wolfdog?:twisted:

it has Od Uhosti blood in it too... :lol::lol::lol:
Nothing to do with Mutara, if you are curious!!
Only problem is that the same bloodline of many many other CSW in italy...but never till now have I seen one come out like this.
For your curiosity
http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/dbase/d10707.html

Wow, I never thought it has Mutara blood:shake, because this animal is nice :lol:.
But when I see in it´s pedigree some names of kennel, I don´t belive it is pure breed wolfdog.

??
Hanka...please...no witchhunt!

what kennel don't you believe? Od Uhosti?

Trust me... it's wolfdog. Hard to believe I know... but it's the truth.
massimo

I did named :lol:. And in it´s pedigree is muuuuch kennels.....
Yes, I belive my breeding, because I know parents on 100%. But not only my breeding. I belive almost all czech kennels.
I know more dogs with pedigree of wolfdog and I know they are not pure breed wolfdogs.....
Please: od Úhoště :gent

I agree... :lol:

...but this is really an unfair way of thinking.

You can't blame and damage a kennel (casa della rosa) just because they take their dogs from passo del lupo ten years ago... when things like mutaras (that are not an italian idea :roll: ) didn't even exist... look at the dates, PdL was at their first litters...

I own neither a "casa della rosa" nor a "pdl" wolfdog. It's just unfair.

I did not write some name of kennel.

ok, right, that was my interpretation, so... what kennels are you talking about?
It seems everybody knows everything, but obviously nobody can prove what he's saying.

Now I'm not accusing you, Hanka, but you know, I'm tired of reading about Italian absurd bonitation, about italian criminal kennels, about italian fake HD results... I think you're victims of Hollywood :lol: because some Italians may be cunning, but you can't condemn a whole country.

Well, as long as I can see, everybody condemn every country but theirs. That's cooperation :roll:

Jeez, I always disliked this country, I'm not even a "purebred Italian" :lol: but you can't always generalize.

would like to see other puppies from this litter...

No, I no generalize:) . In italian is a few kennels what i like and belive they to do breeding very well. Especially one kennel. Hi hi, but I will not named, of course.

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9689
Dayla:
http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/dbase/d10709.html

well, every photo is from a puppy or a young dog, nothing special to see, but this one is realy beautiful. still think that "also a blind chick must find a corn once". i do not think every ITA breeder is bad, NO WAY!, but i dont like that fact with the parents secrects, in most of the litters, that the dog must do "nothing" to be a stud dog ect. i like the father of this dog, found him here a longer time ago and thought, he is beautful... well, just like Oskar said, its time, that the other countries make theire own lines...

meaning that an Italian breeder can make a good dog by chance or by mistake too....correct?

This is all very funny...

I personally would NOT have made that litter, maybe the breeding rules in CZ and SK would NOT have allowed it.

But also the CZ and SK rules would not have allowed my own dog to be born, Oliver Passo del Lupo, because his father is too short (64.5) and too shy.
Funny isn't it...those are actually the OPPOSITE characteristics of my dog...

Who is right?
I don't know...i'm not a breeder, i don't earn any money from dogs... i just love this breed.

Sorry, i don't have keyboard with czech characters :oops:

I like you very much Hanka...but I'd like you more if you said clearly what you think instead of "supposing" or "hinting".
massimo

I feel exactly the same, Massimo. :) I belive the greatest virtue of our vlcaks is not their looks, size, health, character, etc. but the fact they constantly, consistently and with all their might teach us modesty :twisted: ... and we love them all the same...:love

i mean, in ITA or FRA use breeders dogs, who are for breeding everithing but not plus. when i look at the dogs i must stay o moment and look at it twice, to recognize a wolfdog in it... or they have a bad HD result... nevermind, only my thoughts and i DO NOT say everyone is bad and only SVK or CZ dogs are the best... NO! i know many dogs not from this countries who are beautiful!

i know, its on the clubs in the country. what do they alow or not. think that breeding of CSW in ITA, FRA,... is too benevolent.

What is this ???
 

:ehmmm looks like a Italian CsV to me Massimo ;-) but what is this :? ???

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8236/...niayear.th.jpg

Photo is from Serengeti in Tanzania year 2007 at a free rabies vaccination meeting arranged by Intervet.

Best regards / Mikael

Beautiful animal ...:shock:

a beautifull animal, no doubt....and i am not an TWD expert.... but judging by what i read in standard and what is most prominent in those pictures, the head.... i guess this is a nice animal, but can't be described as an excellent type TWD-type, or am i mistaken?!

to me, as a noob, the proportions of the head seem more 1:1 than 1:1.5
he skull seems more flat than slightly rounded, the ears seem set slightly to high. and though i like the eyecolour, to me the shape seems of and i miss the alertness, the sharpness i have seen in many TWD... I can't say if it is because of the shapeof the eye, or the shape of the head....

PLease forgive my posting if i am totally off, i read this site cause i also like to learn about twd, and this picture seems to have been placed here for a reason, so hence my remarks...

hi everybody on WD .. JUST one thing .. thanks masssimo to show us this beauty ... y remember them in dog show to reggio emilia and love them immediatly ...VERY VERY wolfish type ;;; and not shy when they are pupps ... now y don t know about caracther .. BUT one things is SURE ... y love this type:p ... best regards .. frank

woww !!! thanks very much to show us this very very superb wolfdog !!!! wonderful !!!!!

I'm overwhelmed! Unprecedented, beautiful!

I tough the head was more foxlike than wolflike :p
But the main problem I think I saw on those fotos was what seems to be weak fingers on the frontpaws.
But I wonder about the body index and the back legs angles/quality.

Nice photos!

Thanks god we have so many experts of quality according to standard from a couple of photos!
:klatsch:klatsch:klatsch
Why certain Judges are considered experts I really don't understand....

I wonder what the replies would have been if the kennel name was **** or @@@@.
:roll::frown::confused::shake:bigcry2

because the most animals from Italy do not look like this. its realy beautiful animal, i dont care, wich kennel is it.:rock_3

wow!!! amazing wolfdog!!!

a butifull animal, i would be happy to own somthing as butifull as that;-)

WAOUUUUUU y love !!!!

Really fantastic. :love

Why is this nice looking wolfdog shown in a small fence??
Jos

Dear Laila, from Slovensko,

I'm Souvla, living in France and I live and work with to Vlcaks. (My lady dog is named Laïla !). You write you must look at twice to recognize a vlcak when it comes from France ?!!!!! We are building our breeds since ten years now and I think that we can, more and more, be proud of our work !

RONA, you wrote the fullsense words about our Vlcaks !

best regards,
Souvla.

Thank you! :)

I think it´s very beatiful

I think there are a lot of diffrent types of Csw and this is a fantastic one!

:ehmmm Hmmmmmm... yes it is... :)

But the question one must ask is way do the breed look more and more differant when it is to look more and more similar and fixed for every generation :? ??? And way is there so extreme differance on the puppy´s sometimes in the same litter :ehmmm ???

Therefor I got one more question for you all...

What is this ???

http://forumbilder.se/images/710201080108P16fc.jpg

http://forumbilder.se/images/d30201081818P64ca.jpg

http://forumbilder.se/images/e30201082124P945f.jpg

http://forumbilder.se/images/fc0201082502Pc587.jpg

http://forumbilder.se/images/910201082935P0fb9.jpg


Very best regards / Mikael

I guess some things you can get quikly (and maby things you do not want) and other things can take some more time to show genetic.But Csw is a young breed and everyone have there own picture of the ultimate wolfdog.And i think its good that they are differenses and in the same time place for that in the standard.

i would say on the off chance it is definately one of these,ha ha
http://ukwolfdogs.com/kizzy_pups_18....ta1_type=large

sorry can not get pic to upload here is link have a very very good look at this pic then make your own mind up, shape of head, narrow chest, coat, ect ect,,,
http://ukwolfdogs.com/kizzy_pups_18....ta1_type=large

hi, i have mentioned this subject lots of times and it is ignored but now that you mention it Mikael as i have often said there is a growing difference in the appearence of the CWS from different countries and its very clear, the type is not being mentained and is slipping away by the day, the photos of the wolfdog at start of this post is good example, so is this a registered CWS? if so then WHO ADDED THE NEW WOLF BLOOD LINE AT LEAST TWO GENERATIONS AGO AND DID NOT SAY........ like most of you have commented it is a beautiful animal of that there is no doubt, i have owned CWS for over 10yrs but i have owned other wolfdogs and wolves for many more years, as you all know i did use male CWS on wolves over the years and i do have some very beautiful animals, but i have never had one nice remark made about mine only all the s..t from people on wolfdog.org for crossing cws with wolf, big difference is I DONT REGISTER THEM AS CWS,,,, why would any one who can breed such beautiful animals want to hide them behind the name of another breed??? if you look on my web site at this photo http://ukwolfdogs.com/kizzy_pups_18....ta1_type=large it is a third generation from wolf and cws cross, seems someone in Europe isnt happy with the way there cws look. as for why do pups from same litters sometimes look so different,this is not uncommon in dog breeding with new breeds but as you state as time goes by and the generations grow the type will become steady, if you add a wolf to the lines and breed forward with just cws then in 3 generations the type will be as normal again with the only trace of the wolf will be on paper, In France wolf has been added to both CWS and Saarloos but as normal it is ignored, you seem to be noticing changes Mikael maybe you should look at lots more pics on wolfdog.org and also remember there are now lots of litters bred that dont even reach this data base, and one last thing dont forget there are coydogs in Europe...... regards pacino

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9689
http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/dbase/d10707.html
2 cws

Just from a breeding standpoint in general (not touching the addition of wolves in breeding programs with a 12 ft pole!) it is in absolutely no way necessary to "have to" add wolves into the breed to maintain or work towards a standard. It has everything to do with different breeders having different aesthetic rather than losing wolf blood. Look at EVERY other dog breed in the world and you'll find variation. The best example is the GSD, which the CSV was even bred from. Look at how drastic the differences are between dogs of different countries, and then within those countries, the differences between working and show lines. They don't even look like the same breed!

That's also only considering people that are working to better a breed by working towards a standard. What about the people that just don't care about anything but selling puppies? I'm a groomer and work with dogs and see on average 15-20 different dogs a day, usually similar breeds. I can have 5 dogs, all "bichons" according to their owners, and none of them will look anything alike!

The only way to really unify the standard of a breed in my opinion is to make the standard very specific, so it's not open to interpretation. Unfortunately, this often times is the cause of breeds being taken to the extreme because people breed for really inane things in the standard. I'm personally ok with a little breed variation based on taste if it means the standard is open enough to allow for a breeder's specific vision of the perfect CSV.

Exactly my point !!!

Now is this a steady litter :? ??? I do not think so...

Maybe one or two of them look as a CsV standard dog, the rest look like mixes to me...
but it is the same litter ;-)

Iuna ---Casa della Rosa--- X Dredo ---dell'Irco Sortiere--- litter from 2008-11-14

>>> http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/dbase/d5238.html



http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8...ukina10m21.jpg


http://forumbilder.se/images/710201080108P16fc.jpg

http://forumbilder.se/images/d30201081818P64ca.jpg

http://forumbilder.se/images/e30201082124P945f.jpg

http://forumbilder.se/images/fc0201082502Pc587.jpg

http://forumbilder.se/images/910201082935P0fb9.jpg


And I think it did started about here...
>>> http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/dbase/d4002.html ;-)

Now what do you think ???


Very best regards / Mikael

I think that the similarity of the the litter ended to be, in this case, about what a good photografer can do.
If you forget about it and try to evaluate the dog without took in consideration the magic of the photo, you will see that all them have some similar characteristics.

i have looked at the photos and i agree with you they all have one thing in common they are all DOGS,, apart from that they are chalk and cheeze,,, tail set in one of the pics is well lost for words,,,,,, now have look at bone, pic 2 and 4, then look at rest, notice the heavy fur on inner ears, i know to well where this comes from, shape of ears the rounded tips,,, big difference in coats, color and lenght, back ends, pic 2 and 4 look at return of stifle, then look at the others,not even close, i have seen plenty of litters with variations but this litter is hard to believe, in fact i dont believe it is one litter at all.

hi, yes i agree you dont need wolf in the czech anymore, and variations to certain degree must be excepted in every breed, but the degree in variation is now getting bit rediculous and on numerous occasions i have visited wolfdog data base looking for new lines to buy or for stud dogs to use and i always get new surprise ever time, i am for selective breeding and useing the best i can get, if i dont get then i dont breed, and i have bred in the past with other breeds and have used the best and it didnt work, so its not all pick the best and it great, dog breeding to me is like playing russian roullette, you can look at pedigree see dog is compatible, then is it complete out cross or are you line or in breeding, the health checks are good and you breed, what do you get,,,, you can only do your best and use your experience and judgement, but if it dosent work i will tell my friends and show what i have bred, i learned alot in dogs from listening to people who have been doing it longer than me, the CWS is a fantastic breed, i will never be without one but people need to work hard and work together and this breed will do well in the future, my friend and i bred Akitas for many years, my bitch redwitch dancer produced the top winning dog of Austrilia and a bitch was top winning bitch USA, but i stopped breeding Akitas because no one would import new blood lines, the gene pool was shrinking and i got out, i wanted no part in what was to become of the akita in uk, and im glad i did,, i have only bred 3 litters of CWS and i have one due soon i hope but i have imported some dogs, one of which i will not use but give away as pet for it did not come to what i expected, i made a mistake it was costly but i admit it was partly my fault, but i wont breed like some to try and recoup my money back. when the kennel club insist on dna before pedigree is isued i will be happy, untill then we watch,,,,,,,,pacino

i think cameras where invented before the date the pups where born so maybe we can get photos of the bitch? there are plenty of pics of other bitchs used by this breeder, i think there is something very not correct here and i think everyone is due explaination, i do not believe all these dogs in pics are from same litter.

I read the last comments of this post and really couldn't stop laughing!!
The only "serious" comment was made of course by the one who has most rational mind...Paula.
You are comparing pics made on snow and pics not, 3-4 months puppies with almost adults...pics made by semi pros and pics made by amateurs...
Oh gosh!!
Do you want me to show you Galiba pics and the ones of his brothers? or Eligo put next to his brothers? do they all look the same??
they are ONE litter...with normal differences from brothers.
Witch hunt!!
Witch hunt!!
Witch hunt!!
Witch hunt!!

I think .... I think ... No, I don’t think, I say. I only know that these puppies are CSW and they are not hybrids, they are simply the result of a work of 2 people who love the breed and trying to improve it.
All this puppies (6) are regularly registred in the LOI, and if you want to do the DNA test you come to take samples.
I’m sorry for my bad English.
Nadia and Fabrizio

Tell us, were does it come from?

Michael

Yes they might have some similarities as they probably are born from the same mother :rock_3 And I think also the same father ;-)

I do not blame this breeder, I do not think they did mix, but I do think Passo del lupo did. as I already did say...

Best regards / Mikael

the father and mather are CSW and the puppy are brother .
This is Duska :http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/862/anukin.jpg

Are not mixes but CLC register in ENCI - no mixed with anything. Look some strange because the same different eyes has the father Anouk (in pedigree Dredo) and many his puppies have such strange eyes but are real CLC.

It is also not mix but many young dogs here in Italia have hanging ears. It is common fault but dogs here - for me one very common for dogs from Passo del Lupos lineage.

It's incredible!!!!!!:shock:

I know very well Dredo and Iuna and ARE CSW !!!! In Italy you can find something similar to Mutara(a few years and not only from pdl) but it's impossible find something similar to European wolf like this..also because in Italy is illegal have a real wolf and impossible to capture it.

Is was a breeding very successful betwen two CSW pure,without a drop of blood of wolf or other....

Read trought this passage..!!!;-)

It's very important...great Micaela!

loooooooool

Have I to shave "the heavy fur on inner ears" of my dogs now???:roflmao:roflmao

i have looked at the pics of your dogs all have normal ears and and normal amount of fur, the photo of the pup in third frame has lots more than normal czech, no one is blaming the breeder of this litter for anything but the truth is there is a cross lined dog or bitch in its lines that for sure, i breed F1 F2 F3 AND ONWARD. the cws and saarloos have more crossed lines than you can ever imagine, including malamute cross done in southern France, saarloos and cws cross done in northern france, and pure wolf to saarloos and cws in southern france the wolf used was not european wolf and was done in 1990s. FACTS not bulls..t. p.s and also high wolf content male to saarloos still going on today with pups still being registered as pure bred. one young couple have pup from this breeding that is not year old and can do nothing with it, it is so shy and they are not experienced enough to do any work with it, so dont think for one minute you have any idea of what has went on with cross breeding in the cws, id ont go on hearsay or listen ti gossip i go and find out the true facts, and my wife and i where both in the company of the people from france and holland who done some of this as they trusted us at that time,,,,,,,,
so how do you feel about the breedings of passo del lupo that are on this data base??? or are you to busy shaving your dogs ears,,,,,,, myself and others will now take look at all breeders and registered litters on this data base for people who abuse there bitchs and make list for publication in dog mags to warn buyers and put there names on lots of wolfdog and wolfdog related web sites naming and shaming them and hopefully get the authorities involved in animal welfare.

Again wrong thread and bad language. (fill in the dots...)
I hope administration of this site does something about this user as soon as possible.
He may have good arguments but expressing them in a totally wrong way.

Il est magnifique.....

Fine, thank you. I´m sure you´ve noticed that the pics of my dogs are really old. I´m not interested in refreshing them - but come along and try to take a look at my CsV. Don´t you know that pics are always lying?

Please don´t forget the Saarloos wolfhonden with British or Northern Inuits or CsV with wolves in the U.K.

Sorry, but I´m no Don Q. If there are enough people to buy puppies there ... Your windmills are not mine.

Yeeessssssss

Why not? But don´t forget that your reputation - after crossing a CsV with a wolf - is not the very best.

But I not appear here to talk about that, I will not enter more in detailed question about what I think about specific dog as its only causes problems.

I'm here to warn you about your acts here in the forum, some really problematic for everybody:

have something called netiquete, its a list of nice rules for you comunicate in peace with people at internet webpages, and you're braking it.

1- When you write with Caps LIKE THAT means you're SCREAMING, you can use it for call the attention to some words, but a full phrasis or even a full reply with that will means you're SCREAMING with everyone of the forum, try to imagine it in real life.

2- Bad words are not well tolerated here and you can get banned if use it often.

3- Try to dont make offtopics, have you ever noted that everytime you back to post in wolfdog.org we need to open several new topics with different topic than the one you've originaly posted it?
Like this one you used for attack Passo del lupo kennel, after it for talk also about abused bitch's, while the topic was made for talk about the dogs of the photo, maybe about their selection, but more for praise the dog and the owners ( wich seems that have nothing to do with Passo del Lupo) or even the photografer , if you dont agree you can let your message but educated and trying to expose your tough clearly ABOUT IT.
In the topic of Passo del Lupo you back to talk about Abused bitchs... so we should open a new topic specific for it and move your posts, as its different topic and not only about Paso del Lupo specificaly.

I'm warning about it because not all people know about netiquete, and sometimes act like a troll without be, so please, behave yourself.

Sorry for OT, but I would like to make a point here:
Personally, I don't tolerate such rude behaviour at all. If somebody uses dirty words more than once when addressing me (in reality or in Internet), I put a private ban on him and don't see him, nor read any of his/her posts! There is a very useful function on worlfdog.org that makes posts of such person invisible! Great relief, belive me! 8)

Aggression always starts with words (in linguistics called ACTS of speech) and leads to violence and eventually... to fighting, wars.

Psychologists proved that only mentally weak people swear (even if they look big and strong or even... walk with wolves ;-)). People who have strong personalities and "class" can control not only their behaviour but also language and have other means of verbal expression. Swearing means: "I have no arguments so I have to bully".:p

I don't know how many of you share my opinion, but if we start tolerating verbal bullies here, in no time wolfdog.org will turn into sewage pipe. My British grandma ofen used a proveb "birds of a feather flock together" - why don't the bulies "flock together", but ... somewhere else. :lol:

And there are a lot of experts who think that breeding mixes for personal interests is a massive abuse of animals.

I absolutely agree and have seen the effects a lot of times, the result is that there is no more normal forum because everybody else leaves and bullying people is very effective in this way.

Ina

I cant use this option :rofl3

I only tried to warn him in not such direct way that there will have no second chance if use such dirty talk.
But sometimes bad words pop because some people didn't found better word to express something in the moment ( like in the case of "shit" instead of "faeces" for exemple)

Its a tipical yung CzW, feminine as well, its good to look she here because in this photo shows a very good skull, different of the photos posted before of the other dogs wich looks like have a very weak one, I found her nice.
Who is?

PS: Your dog have heavy fur in inner ears, hurry shave it or someone will think its a mix :p

:shake But no one did even mention a word about Monica :roll: ... yet :lol:

:santagrin / Mikael

:rolleyes: This is very confusing, I did understand Monika that a whitch hunt is asking someone questions that he doesn´t want to answer but we have a lot of answers here...

Omg, 2 eyes and 4 paws... i know where those come from... komodo dragons... YOU ITALIAN CHEATERS!

:lol: :roflmao :rofl3

Yes at least more answers than Monica did ever give on any question :lol:

Very best regards / Mikael

Dida:
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8872/di4c.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us