'Wolfdogs' of unknown origin - CzW or not?
 

But why everybody is against Fabio only? I see here on wolfdog puppies of breeders also breeding mixes. And nobody is writing about them it is wrong. Why you do it?
Here is one dog http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7424
I know no pedigree. Who told it is a czech wolfdog?


I think if you want f be fair you must make same staps against all breeders with dogs with no pedigrees and not only Fabio. Because so it is not right.

You guys not like hard questions, right? So long and no answer for my question. :twisted: You write bad words on Fabio but when Crying wolf is breeding mixes it is ok for you. Mollyni?re de Lo'Scale has litter of mixes but for you it is ok. My friends told me many dogs with no pedigree and mixes are in germany. they go to shows and have titles of the slovakian judges. and nobody writes critic. all you can do is fight with breeder from italy... if someone else makes it is is ok... :evil: for me is is writing bad words about other breeders and not a real interest for the breed... :?

Bonsoir,

Je constates que mon affixe est cité dans une conversation qui laisse à penser que je fais des mélanges de races .....
M. Lupis, vous semblez ignorer une chose toute simple :

Vorss, le chien dont vous parlez, a été Confirmé à titre initial en France, de façon tout à fait normale et transparente .....
Il a été vu par différents juges qui n'ont jamais remis en question qu'il ne rentrait pas dans le standard de la race.....
Il a passé son TAN , ses radios de dysplasie sont A/A......

Dans mon pays, le Titre initial est parfaitement légal et accepté, si l'ensemble de ces critères sont respectés
en aucun cas, je n'ai à rougir de celà !!!!.....

A la suite de sa confirmation, j'ai fait une portée avec lui, afin de voir ce qu'il traçait......Par sécurité, tous les chiots ont été placés à proximité de chez moi, afin que je puisse surveiller leur évolution ....
Ce sont des chiens (qui devenus adultes) qui ne reproduisent pas .....cetains ont même été stérilisés volontairement dans ce sens....

Pour ma part, je n'ai jamais triché sur les mariages, ni jamais remplacé les géniteurs d'une portée au grè de ma fantaisie, ou fais des mélanges avec d'autres races
Depuis 2006, je fais même des tests ADN de mon cheptel.....

Donc, avant de prétendre, publiquement qui plus est, (:evil:) que je fais des mélanges, essayez de vous renseigner et prenez le temps d'aller à la source, c'est à dire, vers moi et de me poser la question directement ......

Salutations

La Mollynière de Lo'Scale

sorry but this is ENGLISH forum and please wright english - not french people will this read.

or maybe i mas lithuanian wrigth all :twisted:

I will try to translate from french to english... it's hard for me so forgivme me for any "grammar" mistakes.... consider the effort and understand the meaning!!

I see that my kennel name is being used during a conversation which makes people think that I amd mixing breeds...
Mr. Lupis, you seem to ignore a simple thing:
Vorss, the dog you mention, has been confirmed as "titre initial" (to be translated as out of registry pedigree or something like that, in Italy it's LIR instead of LOI), in a very normal and transparent way...
He has been seen by various judges who have never put in discussion that he does not belong to breed standard...
He passed his TAN (don't know what it is...) his HD results are A/A
In my country, the "titre initial" is perfectly legal and accepted, if the totality of these requirements are respected.
In any case I should not be ashamed for this!!

Following his confirmation, I made a litter with him, to see what he passes on to his offspring.
To be sure, all his puppies have been placed to owners who live near my home, so I can follow their evolution...
They are dogs (when they will be old) who will never reproduce....some of them have been sterilised because of this intention...

From my side, I have never played tricks on coupling, neither have I ever changed parents of a litter according to my fantasy, or have I never mixed different races.
After 2006, I even make DNA tests on my animals...

Ce sont des chiens (qui devenus adultes) qui ne reproduisent pas .....cetains ont même été stérilisés volontairement dans ce sens....

So, before stating that I make mixes, what is worst it done pubblically, please try to take your time and ask directly to the source, that is to say ask me directly.


La Mollynière de Lo'Scale

massimo, thanks :)

I have a small question to make to "La Mollynière de Lo'Scale" breeder.

As you are confident with what you state... would you be available to make a DNA test on VORSS and see if he is a wolf Hybrid?

I believe any Wolf/CSW mix would pass "initial stage" and even bonitation or win dog shows. It would not be enough for me.
Today it is not allowed to introduce new wolf blood into the breed without permission of the owners of the standard (slovak club), this is a fact whether you like it or not.

Do you really know who is father of VORSS?? is there any chance that he could be a real wolf? or another breed, not CSW?
Massimo

facts please, not only rumours!!

hello, as regards Vorss, indeed it is of initial title, but between us I doubt that this dog is a direct hybrid ..... but that is normal that people put the question, but the question arises for other dogs then, the lines Crying Wolf, some between them like to me much, very lupoide,but ........, a dog in Italy also Dark (http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/1534) in any event we will never know, therefore useless to launch rumours…. each one is free to have its opinion of sound with dimensions .....
Martial

Lupis, perchè non ti firmi come tutte le persone civili che scrivono in questo forum?

looooooool

Lorry, ne t´inquiètes pas - lupis est peut-être un troll :rock_3
amitiés
Angelika

(Lorry, don´t worry - maybe lupis is a troll :rock_3)

vorss
 

Please Massimo, help me to translate , my english is'n perfect et now a'm a short of time.
Conosco Vorss molto bene per averlo visto di persona e conosco anche la sua storia . Dissipiamo subito i dubbi: non è un ibrido di lupo. E' la solita storia delle foto su WD. La foto é vecchia e puo' trarre in inganno.
E' un bellissimo esemplare di cane lupo cecoslovacco.
Esatto la confirmazione francese é come il LIR italiano.
Il TAN (test d'aptitude naturelle) é una prova a cui sono sttoposti tutti i CLC proprio per constatare la corrispondenza allo standard e non nell'aspetto fisico ma nel CARATTERE. Si tratta di una serie di test a cui corrisponde un relativo punteggio. Si tratta di una prova molto interessante a cui proprio l'anno scorso sono state apportate delle sostanziali modifiche dal nuovo direttivo del club francese.
Circa il DNA,lo si fa ai cuccioli e ai loro genitori per verificare il grado di parentela.Personalmente trovo che sia la miglior garanzia per chi acquista un cucciolo.
Non sono tecnica , ma penso sia un poì'difficile fare questo con Vorss.
Perdonatemi una considerazione. Leggendo WD é facile capire come poche insinuazioni possano nuocere al buon nome dei vari allevatori e diffamare il loro lavoro.Personalmente ne conosco molti in tutta Europa e non solo in Italia e posso sinceramente dire che se tutti lavorassero con la serietà della signora Lorry Leclerc molte delle situazioni che abbiamo oggi sotto gli occhi non sarebbero esistite.
Grazie per l'aiuto a chi vorrà tradurre.

Silvana

Hello, Silvana! And, which is his story ?:roll:
He seems a beautyful csw, could be nice to have more info about him and his parents.

Tout d’abord, je tiens à préciser que si je poste en français, sur le Forum anglais, c’est simplement parce que je ne maîtrise pas suffisamment cette langue à l’écrit et que le sujet est trop important POUR MOI pour que j’écrive avec précision et non approximativement .

Pour ma part, si j‘avais besoin de vous parler personnellement pour critiquer ce que vous faites, je ferai l‘effort de parler dans votre langue, soyez en sûre !!!!....

Dans le cas présent, je sais pertinemment qu’il se trouvera bien une personne sur le Forum anglais apte à traduire mes explications de façon correctes et réalistes ! .......du moins je l’espère !:roll:

En ce qui concerne Vorss, je ne vois pas d’inconvénient à donner un avis favorable à votre demande et faire procéder à un test ADN, mais sachez d’ores et déjà que les résultats seront incomplets car il n’y aura que SA carte génétique personnelle avec ses propres marqueurs......


Sachez que j’ai pris le temps ce matin de contacter les laboratoires Antagène de Limonest (69) pour leur expliquer la situation :
Ils m’ont confirmé ce que je pensais, à savoir que :
Les marqueurs d’identifications génétiques sont spécifiquement aux chiens (ce sont des marqueurs canins) et axé sur la vérification de la lignée parentale qui confirme à 99% que les parents sont bien les bons ..... (encore faut il connaître les parents !.....)
Ce ne sont pas des marqueurs de race : ils ne permettront pas de déterminer si les parents de Vorss sont des loups à 100 % ou des hybrides.......


Comme je suis une personne obstinée, je vais prendre contact avec le Service de Recherche et Développement, pour demander si l’on peut obtenir d’autres informations complémentaires par un biais différent.....

Je m’engage publiquement à vous faire connaître leur réponse.....




Salutations
M.L.S.

But is Voors wolfdog? In Italia Fabio registered LIR real wolf mixes and was no problem. It must be not czech wolfdog to register with LIR. You can register all dogs look similar like czech Wolfdog. Why you breed Vorrs - can you show it is REAL czech wolf? Is is ok to breed not pedigree dogs?

Here http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7817 is one dog i hear it is LIR dog (I do not know why parents are in database but i hear Amber is with no pedigree). I can ask but i do not remeber names. I can ask.

Amber is a pure bred wolfdog out of FCI-parents that is offspring of an accidential mating. This can be proofed with DNA-tests what was offered to the VDH.
Before you get excited about people and dogs you don´t know you should start to inform yourself by getting to know people and dogs yourself and not repeating things you just heard.

Ina

i think in this english NOT frenc forum troll is this people who wright frenc and this due special.

massimo help :)

Ok, i will not translate word by word..., just generally:
Silvana wrote in Italian:
She knows the story about Vorss and he is not a wolf hybrid. Problem is the photo on wd may make him seem such.
Tan is a character test, not morphological.
DNA test may not help in case of VORSS as the parents are unknown.
By reading on wolfdog it is easy to understand how small doubts and "no facts" can compromise the good name of some breeders.
Silvana says she knows many breeders in Europe and she believes that she would be glad if most of them worked as Mrs Lorry Leclerc seriously.

This time small condensed translation of what Mrs Leclerc wrote in French:

She writes in french because doesn't know english well enough to reply to certain statements which regard her directly.

For what Vorss is concerned, she has no problem to authorize DNA control, although it is not useful as there is no information about his parents. Info would be incomplete because we do not know his personal "genetical" info

SHe contacted Limonest genetic laboratories: they replied that the genetical identification markers are those of dogs, but they do not identify the breed, so they do not allow to know 100% if Vorss parents are hybrids or wolves.
She will contact "service for research and development" to ask if she can get further information and publically engeges herself to let us know their reply.

This is my small personal comment:
I am positively surpised to see such open discussion from a breeder about how she workes, usually breeders reply to do your own business and to gain experience before critisizing or even commenting their work.
This doesn't mean I agree with her work of course, I find it risky to breed on dogs who's parents are unknown.
Surely the "goal" of Mrs Leclerc is totally different from that of the "mutara project", although a process for LIR has been made...and after LIR there is LOI, meaning official papers and freedom to breed within the breed itself.
This scares me a bit and make me think and suggest to all others to look very carefully at what dog you are purchasing, to be very careful when you see dogs with tricky or not 100% known ancestors on Pedigree.
Massimo

We have been discussing, discussing and the result is:
Brno (Cz) 28/06/2008

CAC, CACIB - Sangria Passo del Lupo (in the front)
http://eury.zperonowki.com/galeria/d...2/P1110663.JPG

http://eury.zperonowki.com/galeria/d...P1110662_2.JPG


end for example - CAC: Eury z Peronówki (in the back of the first picture) and here:

http://eury.zperonowki.com/galeria/d/3997-2/E01.jpg



.............

but if Vorss is not real wolfdog - not cann breeding hem and say - "i breed wolfdogs."

maybe i cann this make - i have very beautiful.... animals in me frend zoo and cann his registr like wolfdog not know pedigree and breed like wolfdogs and have very wolfish dogs.

but this NOT BE wolfdogs- this is mix. and this is all dogs from this breeding is not wolfdogs but mix- wolfdogs x ? not know who.

Il est trés dangereux de parler sans savoir, c'est même une profonde preuve de bétise humaine !......
Tous les chiens de mon cheptel ont des origines connues, (seul Vorss, n'en possède pas)
Il ne faut donc pas généraliser à l'ensemble de tout mon élevage !!!!

Sachez Mme que si j'avais voulu faire du business, sans réfléchir, avec Vorss j'aurai fais de multiples portées .....ce qui n'est pas le cas !....sur les 4 chiots de sa descendance 3 sont stérilisés et 1 vit chez moi sans reproduire !.....

Alors un peu de prudence dans vos propos !

Please, dont write here other language. Its a english forum. Its seriously warning. In other case I must close the forum for person, which dont care our rules.

don't worry Lorry, they are not objective ! they said that only for getting you some trouble ! ;-)

OK ! I shall not speak any more on this English Forum.

You speak about rules to be respected ???: OK !

I, my personal rule : it is to speak always openly, not to take advantage of the language barrier to speak ill on a person without knowing how to, and respect the freedom of expression!!!!

Then please respect this rule, there also.....

On the French Forum, there are often interventions in English and that raises no problems :rock_3

Lorry de MLS

I too think if someone is attacked and only can reply in his own language and wait for a translation he should get this possibility.

Ina

Thank you for your stand in this sense....
Initially nothing obliges me to have to justify me on the question of Vorss, his only litter, or other subject concerning my breeding.
I make him, by respect for others ,and parceque I consider that it is important, to have a dialogue openly

I admit that I am going to revise my position and my way of reacting to any piece of news story "attack"

Lorry de MLS

Hi lorry
The problem wasn't your reply, but the lenguage you write when you know english properly to read.
You can see that english isn't the mother lenguage for the most part of the participants, and biggest part of then are from different countries so, this is a international forum, you can find people here from Spain, Germany, Brazil, France, Polish, Czech Republik, Slovak, Lituans, fell people here write english perfectly like one USA or UK person, if someone missunderstand you, is only you explain again, and, if this isn't enough, so won't have problem in write in French in this case and wait for a translation.
But... can you imagine if Wolfin start to write only in Lituan because maybe she not write perfectly english? or because maybe she fear be missunderstood? We will get crazy trying to translate and almost nobody will understand! We will need wait a good hearthed Lituan translate it. :p
I know that we can find some different lenguages reply in one specific lenguage forum, that's common and sometimes isn't a problem, because different of the english forum, French forum as exemple isn't sooo international, almost all participant's live in France, talk or write french, so will be only someone translate and end of the problem... is a french forum anyway... but here if you can write in French because is more easy... Wolfin can write in Lituan too... :twisted: ....is only an exemple. :p

Excuse me Pavel but each post by lorry has been translated, is that still a problem? if she can express herself best in her own language doesn't she have the right to do it?
If you are so strict (but allow trolls to write Idiocies and spreading shit all over people's reputation without signing themselves) not to allow somebody to protect their image although in their own language, I invite Lorry to send her posts to me directly, i will translate them in English for her.

...life is ridiculous sometimes...
massimo

I know that the forum is english ant that it is the common language in wich it is necessary to speak, BUT the presented subject in a public way, with my quoted name, is too important for me.
I explained why I wanted to give my point of view in my own language...

I already have to undergo the judgment (sentence) of others, read that I make crossings and I am inescapable to defend myself and to answer in a language that I not mastery not ????


You speak about Wolfin? OK!
If I had to be interested in what she, makes, to criticize her, or to speak about her, I shall make him, in HER language so that she can objectively answer me.
The big difference, between us 2 notably, it is because my past of jurist, drives me to accuse never or to speak about what I ignore that is to French breeders or not!.....

Slts
Lorry de MLS

ooo labai malonu, kad Tamsta noretumet su manimi kalbeti mano kalba, galim pakalbeti apie Voors ir kitus Jusu sunis.

if You will speak with me lithuanian i am very happy and cann this make :)

i know and to me is better speak in me language but if not have massimo help i and others have little problems- not unterstand who You will say. only this make problems. others - is others diskusions.


regards

Thank you M. Massino ......Very kind ! .....

The difficulty writing in English is a thing......
But, for what I blame you more particularly it is to write false assertions on my subject.....

You have already asserted on WD, in public, that my dogs were not radiographés, now you say that I make croisiements !!!!

You come to my breeding ? You know me personally to speak so about me ?
I take charge of you ? I critque you? ......

hmm i see Yours work - cann this name Yours breeding and this information is for me alls who i mas have to know You whe breeders.
i not mas cann't Your and drinking with You martini :)

p.s.
this is not problematic make - i see data base and see- dogs have or not have HD ED exam, have or not have bonitation, have or not have working exams :)

p.s. i see in WD - You have 11 wolfdogs with pedigree and 2 eeee... dogs.
You have litters and parents from Your kennel not have HD, ED exam and sertificate, but have puppies.

maybe - dogs have only in WD not be results. but now- i see only this - dogs who not have ED have pups.
ant this is ok? this is to breed good future?

Your certainties with regard to me almost make me smile so that becomes stupid as behavior.....

Know dear Madam that on 11 dogs which you evoke, 4 are not even any more for my breeding ......

Be kind, stop asserting things without being safe(sure) of the fact that you advance(move) and do not take for ready cash what is noted on Database who is far from being up to date, as for me !.....

when WD data basa is falsh - this is only Yours problems, when Yours not wish make this Ok.

but me question and whe You say "atack" is about HD ED exams.

maybe You have 1 or 100 dogs i see not HD ED results :)

Many times Margo wrote in english into the italian forum (and his messages were very appreciated), so I think you can be more...flexible ;-)

(sorry but this is ENGLISH forum and please wright english - not french people will this read.

or maybe i mas lithuanian wrigth all :twisted:)


Sorry but your English is very BAD !!! it s difficult to anderstand you !

Felicitation Lorry for your English :rock_3

i know :rock_3 but i wright english not lithuanian :) :twisted:
and me english is bad wheil i have only germany in me life. but not see problems :)

i know this is other situation about frenc language - but ..... i not say :)

I've visited Lithuania twice (Vilnius, Kaunas, Raudone, Jurbakas) and all I know is :
Labas,
Ah tave Miliu,
Alus,
Saltibarciai,
Achiu
Prashau
Atshoak
and my favourite: " kam miegoti iei galì balevoti"

Not enough for translating i'm afraid Daiva! :lol:
massimo

this is GREAT :))) YES YES YES - You mas comming to II CSV club show in this year - and we make - kam miegot jei gali baliavot :) :rock_3

I am really surprised about your position of ruler and judge.
Also you never incite properly more moderation in your remarks and, especially reflections and clearness on the WD’s database.

I ‘m only one simple Frenchwoman’s breeder and yet a long time ago that I noted, that the base of information, even if it is very instructive and interesting, swarming with errors, carelessness, oversight ,oblivion on all topics.

You would undoubtedly be surprised for a number of anomalies which I found on my own livestock !

1ER POINT /
I repeat it to you : it is not because the results are not indicated on the database that my dogs are not radio graphed ! .....
Exactly to the contrary !!!!

At one time, Quirinus, Vorss, Vhor' Gaal, Cyntia (just to one small example without forget the others) was noted in the base ...... but they has been removed and never admit again on the database. .....
I am not responsible and guilty for that……!!

For my side, I am really wearied to ask always corrections of errors , results of expos, error on the photographs of my dogs, their age, their sex ....... and never have received an answer (even by simple courtesy and politeness :roll:).

I took for a certain time already to my side ,the VOLUNTARY action, to never point out the anomalies, and also the results of expos of my dogs !

(for a simple recent example ? : the results in Sweden (Word expo!) concerning my dogs are erroneous and incomplete)!!!

Also I do not take any more the trouble TO TRANSMIT the results of the hips of my dogs .....
It’s so easy , so simple for that! And that does not means that my dogs are not radio graphed!

Overall in evidence, they are the many gaps of W.D which you can observe and note that there aren’t due to an absence of control of my share ...... the nuance is of opposite size !

2EME POINT /
You speak about the Bonitation which my dogs did not pass ....

If you are a little bit much knowledge about what occurs now in France, you had to learn that all 1st Bonitation will take place this year (2008) at the time of the NATIONALE D’ELEVAGE (the most important French meeting of CWS) programmed for this august ,2008.

If you talk about bonitation until now, you are in right !! Yes! it is exact!! My reproducers never passed their bonitations , ( like the major part of the French reproducer) because in France, it is not recognized as such ..... and that we do not need to pass this examination on the regulations of reproduction !

Until now, only the Confirmation on the standard level of the race is obligatory (with the TAN and the RX-displasye to approve the French Champion Titles and to allow the prestige of the dog).

I am not therefore against this stage of Bonitation and I belong of the people who spurred Mr. Imré Horvarth (the new President of the CBEI) for this 1st Bonitation in France ......

3EME POINT/
You speak about tests of work :

In France, the attack is not authorized (for CLTS) ......
The RCI, the Mondio-Ring, the are totally forbiden .....
Agility, the dog-cross, country race tracking, Obedience, (which however asks for a true daily work ) are not recognized to enrol dogs in working class.

Just the endurance test could open the door for workink class !!

If you want all to know, is for this reason that I work with my dogs in this direction, with the project to present them this and the next years in a foreign Eastern countries.
This because for this moment in France no body organize this kind of tests !!!!! (for CLTS).

What mentioned above, and moreover, the fact that in France does not have the same rules of the Eastern European countries (for example the level of Bonitation ) does not means that my dogs are the fruit of crossings as you seem to think it! .....
AND WORSE OF ALL, THIS HAS BEEN WRITTEN IN A PUBBLIC SITE !!!

Your position of judge would push you with more neutrality on a public Forum, because that manner and the language used gives your personality an painful impression......


note personnal : Like a judge, probably you are recognized as such (I cannot certify it because I never had expos with you .:roll:......)
like as human person , I found you rather arrogant and especially bluntish of your certainty ...

Greeting

Lorry de MLS

hmmm, thanks from beautiful antswer. but konkrets facts i not see.
i see Your web site and not see who i wish.

but ok - i now have good humor. :)

many??? You find out only one: Amber - an excellent CSW. Your friends are simply jealous :mrgreen:

Seems your intent is to denigrate French and Hungarian breeders and German CSW - and to support someone called Fabio. Just for grins you started a little dispute between M.L.S. contra G.D. - with Italian, Polish, French ... side shows.

Pure waste of time to talk to you.

Angelika

Full agree with you Angelika!! This Forum is an opportunity to talk about experiences but not for spread slander.

Silvana

Leclerc, please antswer in only me question.
have Your dogs HD?
i see You have new litter and.. dog have A - super :) but mom ???

Believe you that Mr . GAITI for the quite 1st projection of his stallion would especially have wished and accepted a female not radiographéee ?????

It is very bad to know him !!!!......

Even the tests DNA of the relatives(parents) were made BEFORE the projection.....

Mme Leclerc


PS : Be kind, stop spy on what I "make", or do not "make", with my dogs ......you have no other activities to be made in your day ?:cry:

hmm You see problem ? i not - i normal quest about HD and 3 page in this temat i not have antswer. only this :) i not atack You i wish only have konkret:
Yes she have HD and hes have HD? or
Not she not have HD.

regards :) and i not atack You :)

No !!!! it is not normal that you ask me these questions!!!
It is the unhealthy curiosity of your part and you know it !
stop this small stupid game (set,play) !

I do not have to justify myself to you !!!!, think of what you want .

I am already very pleasant (kind) to have made the effort to answer you (in english !!!!!)


This is the last e-mail of answer of my part, to your attention.....

hmmm interesing think.
but not only i have eyes and see what is good and not good.

You cann not speak with me. and this is not problem to me. only for You. when You not love wolfdogs and not wish have good and healt dogs. but whe i say - is not me problems but Yours.

regards and beautiful days.

and i thinks this is latest post about this french.

I think the French admin translated it on the French forum some time ago but again:
We removed all not verified results because of some breeders which sent us false results of some dogs... So we learned not to trust breeders even if some of them call themself on this forum "serious". :|
If you want to have the HD of your dogs listed in the Wolfdog.org database you have to send us the copy of the official HD-results - please just scan them and send them to us...

Hot disscusion - I hope I will finish it... 8)

Because of the problems with Mutaras, 'S' Passo del Lupo and some other breeders which do not understand what "purebreed dog breeding" means the Slovakian Club decided:

It will be not possible for Slovakian breeders to cover with males or register ANY dogs where there is no full pedigree till the beginn of the breed on the 80-ties.
What it means? Slovakian Club decided that the dog writen on register in Italy (LIR), France ("titre initial"), Germany (VDH R) or in any other country are considered to be not PUREBREED Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. For example all "S" Passo del Lupo offsprings will be banned by the Slovakian Club EVEN if one of the S-Passo del Lupo dogs will be in 20, 40 or 50 generation.
We have rumors that the Czech Club will make the same steps...


Because we also think it is the only way to protect the breed we will help the people (breeders and owners) to "separate the wheat from the chaff" - in the new database ALL "register" dogs (and ALL THEIR OFFSPRINGS) will be marked red and the information will be showed that according the Slovakian CzW Club there is big doubt if the specific dog is purebreed CzW...
So if you are thinking about buying of one of the "mixes" - please think twice about it before it is too late...

Even if a DNA-test can prove clearly, that the registered dog stems from purebreed parents?

Petra

8) this is surely good luck ;-)

Bye
Silvia&Gusie PDL

If a DNA exam proof that Y dog have parents with pedigree, commonly the breeder or the owner can make the pedigree of the dog.

If the owner does it, before or when the pupps are born, yes. But it is not possible later any more...

That depend a lot of the rules of your kennel, in CBKC and some others too, this is completly possible.

Unfortunately not at VDH - the German Kennel Club. Here you can only register - even if you can prove parentship by DNA.

Hello
 

Hello,

Sorry, but I don´t understand what you want to explain. Could you give us more explanations about your statement, please.

it is not true. I hear some dog in germany not have parents in the pedigree. Have nothing in pedigree. if write in you country you can make DNA test and proove dog has parents purebreed why some dogs have nothing? it means if dog has nothing (no parents) in pedigree it is sure not czech wolfdog because DNA show no normal parents?

The reason is that those dogs have registration pedigree. The VDH refuses DNA-tests for paternity in registration dogs. All registration pedigrees are without ancestors. The owner of Amber wanted to do DNA-tests to proof the pedigree of her dog it was refused.

Ina

Some more for you:

http://www.wolfdog.org/fr/dbase/d/6283
http://www.wolfdog.org/fr/dbase/d/6347
http://www.wolfdog.org/fr/dbase/d/6284
http://www.wolfdog.org/fr/dbase/d/10385
http://www.wolfdog.org/fr/dbase/d/5118
http://www.wolfdog.org/fr/dbase/d/7881
http://www.wolfdog.org/fr/dbase/d/7424
http://www.wolfdog.org/fr/dbase/d/7343

You have also mistake, this one http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/10432 is a Saarloos.

How do you know?

But before you have any comment :rock_3: the more I know and find out about some west European breeders the more sick I become…

I know the owner, I don't know why this dog is in the DB. I know some more dogs like this, it is not the only one Saarloos in the DB.
This to say that the DB is a great tool, but as everywhere else you can find mistake, so one need to take care using the DB and jump too fast into conclusions.

We found two so far... Such dogs were added because the owner used the form "Add a dog" and there was nothing suspicious (in this case the breeders breeds Saarloos and CzW).
And there are more cases where information given to us was not correct. But we found a solution - in the database we have two "levels" saying if the info is correct or maybe not. 8) Now it is not visible but in the new database you will be able to see if the data of a dog is "just added" (someone send info about this dog) or if it is already verified (we make the verification basing on the official publications given by the kennel clubs or breed clubs).

Great job, this is the only way, verified part Vs not verified.

@Elf:
Maybe you can arrange that also in your country the kennelclub or breedclub will publish all the offical data ??

It would be great help for verifying CsW info, also to have the offcial publications of for example the French and Belgium Kennel or Breed club

Will check what's possible to do.