Stud dogs - IMPORTANT!!!!
 

New changes are coming... maybe even improvements..

Because a number of stud dogs increases rapidly - in some countries the requirements for studs are minimal (sometimes it's enough when the dog has pedigree - sometimes even that is not required). So in order not to loose breeders' precious time we decided to make their life easier and we did some "screening". So....

1**** from stud dogs listing we removed PERMANENTLY all dogs that contains unknow ancestors in their pedigrees. It means that wolfdog.org will NEVER advertise litters coming from ancestors of doubtful origin (it affects dogs that are registered with unknown origin).

It involves also 'MUTARA's (and their italian 'version') - NONE of their offsprings (even when 'Mutara' will be in 50th generation) will not be advertised. Also NONE of the litters where the breeder owns so called Mutaras (illegal wolf crossings) or Mutara offsprings. This will be programmed into the site.
In the future database every database card of EVERY dog that contains unknown ancestors will have notice that WARNS before its possible use in breeding... Wolfdogs are not a "natural" breed which was developing for centuries and you can't meet them in "nature". We know origin of EVERY wolfdog and we do not need unknown individuals which can bring potential faults in health, exterieur and character...

2**** from the stud dogs listing we remove all dogs that do not have HD results (Hip Displasia). This requirement is fundamental - every responsible breeder will not breed on dogs without HD results independently of requirements in their country.

At the same time all dogs with HD results that are not confirmed will disappear too. So if your dog has stud dogs status, has HD results and it does not appear on the list we ask you to contact us and send copy of OFICIAL HD results....

Great work Margo:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs:thumbs

I wrote it wrong way... 8) We have equality of rights for the same apply also to females... ;) Females with UNKNOWN origin and without HD-results will be no more marked as "breeding bitches".

IMPORTANT - breeders which own females without HD-check will DISSAPEAR from the kennel list... I verified the results by ENCI and removed ONLY females which are not in their database... So most of you do not have the reason to worry about... :)

So - if you have a stud dog with HD-check and he is NOT on the stud dog list 'Elenco dei riproduttori'
....OR.....
you are a breeder and you are not on the kennel list 'Allevatori'
please get in contact with us so we can fix it....


About the HD-results - you can submit them on three different ways:
1) You can scan the result and send it via email
2) You can make a photo of the result and send it via email
3) you can make a copy and send it as a letter to us

Is this "witch hunt" directed only at Italian dogs, or are you going to apply the same also on French, Belgian, German and other wolfdogs, who are being happily bred on without HD results? I think some equality in the countries would not hurt, either.

Right now, at this moment, Wolfdog.org has no problem to advertise Slovak litters with parents without known HD result:
http://www.wolfdog.org/ces/litters/702.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/ces/litters/707.html

In the fact the italian "witch hunt" has nothing to do with it... ;) Anyway it was not the reason... We had this idea already 2 years ago but first now we have finally the possibility to make the changes... More will follow... ;)

It is you fault - all Slovaks litters are made with HD-checked parrents... but we have problems to update the database frequently. It is the reason that by some dogs the HD-results are missing. The same with kennel names... :roll:

Why would it be my fault, that you have problems to update the database? That is your fault, guys.

For a person who does not know your troubles, there is no difference. The dog does not have HD results named, so the litter should not be there. Not everyone knows, what conditions are in Slovakia.

The same way, some Italian dog or other dog can have HD results, but the owner had "problems to update Wolfdog.org on the results", for example. You will kick that litter out. But you will not kick Slovakian one, because YOU know, the dogs are probably x-rayed.
No wonder, some people get seriously pissed about this.

No HD results, no advertisement. For everyone. That would be equal.

You are wrong, Mirka. There is no German breeder (listed on wolfdog.org) who is breeding without HD results.

Angelika

For italian dogs is very simple to verify : you can see official results published on italiain kennel club website ( www.enci.it)

For other litters I think that is simple too for the breeder to send a copy of HD results to WD to have this litter published.Even if the databsse is not updated !

I think we all should respect MORE the hard work of the webmasters of this site. (Is not to you Mirkawolf, but too often we read something bad about WD on italian forum :cry:)

I did not say, that that there was at the moment any German breeder listed, did I?

Considering the fact, that my husband is still technically one of the admins,
I have an idea about the hard work on this site and also the reasons, that made him to give up on it :lol:

there may be a misunderstanding so ... let's try to understand:
Margo, will litters WITHOUT official HD results, may that be in slovakia or italy or germany or lithuania or werever, be published in the near future?
Like the two mentioned by Mirka for example.
i believe that her statement is undoubtly correct:
"For a person who does not know your troubles, there is no difference. The dog does not have HD results named, so the litter should not be there. Not everyone knows, what conditions are in Slovakia. "
So, just a straightforward question:
I think, in this case, the luckiest of all will be actually the italians, because margo can check easily the HD results or we can just send a hardcopy of the official data on site.
Because, if i'm not wrong, margo said that NO HD will be considered official if the written proof is not shown.
Please let us know your position.
massimo

You wrote about Slovakian litters but the same is with litter of Michael:
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/696.html
and Helena:
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/678.html

You would like to kick both litter out only because publishing of litter advertisment goes faster than updating the database (both males are HD-checked, both HD-A but the results are not visible in the dabase at the moment)... :roll:

I really do not mean cases where I THINK the dogs have hips checked but dogs where I KNOW the dogs are checked...

But to be honest we speak about TWO things only at the moment - kennel list and stud dog list: there will be NO stud dogs on the list which are not x-rayed. And there will be no kennels listed which have female without HD (of course it apply only the breeders whic own one female).
X-rayed dog is not a dog which is PROBABLY x-rayed. But a dog where we have CHECKED information and proofs it IS x-rayed.

So for example we will not BAN dogs like Art because I have the COPY of the x-rays of Art (HD-A) and the only problem is the database is not updated... He is not PROBABLY HD-A but he is for 100% HD-A.... We will not punish people for the problems connected with update of the database.... :?

Exactly.... at the moment we are checking the dogs - to verify almost 10.000 wolfdogs will take a while but finally I thing the results which we get already are more than satisfactory. Leater we will verify the working certificates...

Not everything is working great, and not everything is wonderful and fine. Wolfdog.org will be NEVER finished - when we will make something we will find 100 new things which we will try to add here...
At the moment we will make two changes - I think for good. Maybe some more will come. But it is not about PUNISHING people... Sure we can already tell we will publish ONLY litters where the dogs have HD-check, ED-check, bonitation, PRA-check, 40 km run, some show titels and at last one passed working exams. But how many litters will be on this list? 8)

The idea for the changes was following - to HELP the people.
Which responsible breeder would use a stud dog without a HD-check? NOONE. So we removed the chaff from the stud dog list... 8)
This way we removed from the kennels list all 'accidental' breeders. It was not though to remove as many as possible... ;)
About the litter list: so far we didn't advertised litter of non-FCI kennels. And there are two more changes - we will not advertise litters from kennels which breed mixes of all kinds and dogs of unknown origin... We will not advertise info of litters from kennels which do not send any info about the puppies, which only are interested in selling puppies and make profits....

We have much more ideas, maybe there will be more ideas given by the users, maybe it will be possible to ad some of them... Maybe... anyway not at the moment...

Margo this is an ingenious idea. This will not only perpetuate Czw as a purebreed but, spread the breed across the world(even more so than now). People who want to buy a healthy purebreed Czechoslovakian WOLFDOG will have a place to come to and can be assured that there are no mix breeds. Plus a place to tell them everything about a Czw. This will make it easier for people to buy in turn making more money for the breeders. Even though i know most of you guys (and I) advocate learning about the breed before buying. I would already consider this fourm/website the centrifuge of the Czw. Now more so than ever. 8)
About the updating of the website. I think that you should wait for the breeders that havent had time to send you the new requirements. Maybe send a email to them all or posting a deadline. then after take a day-off work and situate this major task. I know more easier said than done.;)
Another thought about these Mix bred Czw, maybe you guys can make a SEPARATE forum and have a link in this forum. Stateing that they are MIX breeds. Im sure there are people that want something like a cwz but with maybe different characteristics. Probably the reason why the breeders began doing this.:)
Anyways i just wanted to say that this is a great idea. i cant wait till its done so i can buy a Czw. :) Keep up the good work.

Hello Margo, Przemek.
I have one question: you wrote, on the list of males for breeding will be dogs for breeding. Now I see on the list of italian males, there are 128 males for breeding. But I see, there are males without bonitation code, without X-ray results, with disqualificed bonitation code...... Really in Italy is 13 males for breeding only. Why are in the list 115 males more? They are not for breeding, they are wolfdogs only. (I know, maybe they are for breeding in Italy, but it is not what we want......) Not all exist males are good for breeding. We don´t want quantity, but quality.
But it is not situation on italian list only......
Thanks for your explain.

Please don't forget that "youth" bonitation code allows dogs to be present in this list but everybody knows that Youth bonitation code is NOT a bonitation code...many dogs from many countries, not only italy...would disappear!!
there was also the idea to publish on wd ONLY the litters from parents with all the requested data: bonitation (ADULT one...), verified HD results....
if this happens more than half of the published litters disappear....
massimo

hmmm, but only question.
if breedings in this coutry not demand bonitation to breed? and in this case this litter is...unlegal?

Good work !!!

But way don´t require HD and ED on ALL dogs that is used in breeding and sold on this lovely site ???

Best regards / Mikael

Stud dogs - IMPORTANT!!!!
 

What is needed for a male dog to be considered a stud dog/breeding male ?
Because in the stud dog list here on WD.org there are some dogs without bonitation and HD-results, so I was wondering what is needed to be considered a stud dog/breeding male ?

Greetings Rolf

Hello rolf,
I don´t know what you need in your country. Every country has a little different conditions for males- as breeding males.

Hello Hanka,
In Denmark is only needed 2.place in national or international dogshow in Denmark for CSW. ...But I was thinking on the list of stud dogs here on WD.org, maybe this was not the right place for this question ? ...sorry !

Greetings Rolf

Maby this link has the info you wont ???

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...light=studdogs

Regards / Mikael

But I just like you Rolf, wounder about the roules,
as there is still dogs in the "Stud dogs" now 2009,
whitout HD results or Bonitation results...

So I ask to...
What is the roules for a Stud dog, now 2009 ???
( as the quote is from 2007 )

Best regards / Mikael

One (Aron) it there because there is small mistake in the database which will be fixed during the next update. Diego has the German ZZL and X-rays already for longer time - the result will be updated soon....

Thanks :)

But are there any other roules than HD x-ray ???

Regards / Mikael

So if I understand it right, only official HD-results is needed ...not bonitation ? :shock:

Greetings Rolf

If it is so ??? I do not only go :shock: I go :shock::shock::shock: :stupido:stupido:stupido :heul:heul:heul

Regards / Mikael

The dog must be a FCI registered stud dog (+ must be HD checked also in countries where x-rays are not the part of breeding requirements).

No Bonitation on studs !!!
 

But way not require Bonitatio at least on the stud dogs ???

To me it looks crazy to let a stud dog produce allot of offspring to are breed,
whiteout knowing that the stud are standard like in more then the look…

And way not put a maximum offspring to ??? Since some breeder do take over 100 offspring’s !!! And clearly do not care that they are creating future problems in are very narrow gene pool.

50 offspring’s is allot to, but to me a good maximum limit even for a good stud…
If that stud is so very very good fore the breed, it will clearly pas this good genes to at least some of that 50 offspring’s and if not I se no point of continue breeding on that dog anyway, at least not fore the good of the breed.

Best regards / Mikael

Mikael, about ofsprings, i think if dog be good he mas have more litter, see in reality, we have interesing dogs but not have male to mate from this dogs, ok he cann have 50 pupps but when we have only 2 ... male from this same mothers to mate- for me this is bad, and better when dog have 100 pupps and more not 2 male to breed from others mother.
when i have bitch i see this problem, maybe when you have first breed steps and you see this problem.
better check not ofspring but dogs who have breed licenze - and you see others pictures.

about bonitaton- i think first mas make all with HD - later with this not all country cann this make when have 1-10 dogs, ok in LT i cann this make - have judnge category, but if not be, not all people cann travel like maniaks :rock_3 (yes we be ) to SK 1300 km only to make bonitation, or young club not have this money to pay judge to travel this same way.

make all in steps - first HD, latter ohers.

If a breeder can travel to mate they can travel to Bonitate !!!

The stud dogs are in my apenion to be Bonitateted as they are to be the future of are breed, do we really wont them to be P14 stud dogs :rock_3

And NO !!! I will newer think taking over 50 offspring is good on a breed this smal !!!

Regards / Mikael

Mikael, if only bonitated dogs' offsprings will get pedigrees, there will be a big threat to the breed. Yes, I also would like all the wolfdogs to be bonitated, but we have to be realistic... Maybe we need to wait for 10 more years or so... ;)

Mikael, ok make in this method-
i have bitch and me interesing this dogs: Tambury z Rosikova, Gaius Dor, Dark Trencan. I wish make linie with this males and mas have reproductor from not this same bitch.
ok thake me rep list, please say hes sohn names who i cann mate, or, ok grandsohn- please thake me name dogs who have breeding licenze.
i wait. :rock_3

and i say this same like Vaiva- mas make all in steps method, ok You now be pioner and fanat in your country, but when have moore people see others situation. I living more year with CSW and have new people like me friend who have CSW and know - I cann going to SK make bonitation but others not all cann. Think realistic please.

I do not mean that all CsV that get mated need to have a Bonitation,
I only think that the ones that are on the Stud Dog list here on Wolfdog.org are to be,
just like the Stud dogs in CZ and SL.

And especially the ones that take many many offspring’s,
and will effect the breed allot in the future...

Very best regards / Mikael

hej, not speak about "peace in world", but antswer in me concret question :) and speak about concret situation.
p.s. when i be younger and I think similar, but yet know who be real situation :)

I do not speak of a impossible thing here I just say I think ALL Stud dogs
are to have a Bonitation code, if you think differently it is up to you.

But as I did say, if a breeder can travel long way to mate I do not se any reasen way they can not travel to Bonitate, and now I´m talking about Europe (inkluding the UK) not N & S America, I understand they will not Bonitate and have there own list of Studs...

Best regards / Mikael

I agree with admin... 8) If we will add bonitation I think before we have to add as requirement also ED-results (because it is about health), any working results (because it is about the character) and SVP1 made with the excellent note (because it is thebest check if the dog has typical body). Can someone check how many stud dogs will be still on the list if we will make it? :lol:

Mikael - bonitation is a GREAT thing but ONLY if it made by an EXPERT. In the last time there are people (even if the are CzW club judges) which make the BASIC faults during the judgement and have not the brightest idea how to make CORECT bonitation measurements. Sorry but in many cases the bonitation code is a parody. Says NOTHING about the dog... I can show you dogs which by an EXPERT will be P14 (disqualified) but get P1!!!!
WHEN we have more judges which really knows what the bonitation is about and there will be no need to travel 1000 or 2000km to make it... no problem... But so far we have to set up the rules which everybody can fulfil in his own country.

OK, thanks fore your answer.

But I think that we must trust the Bonitation codes,
if we do not the Bonitation system vill collapse, and we will be left whit only show results :cry:

And I do not think it is so hard fore a breeder in Europe to go to a Bonitation on holiday if they wont to have a Stud dog in production...

But I also think ED is to be a good demand fore the Stud dogs...

Very best regards / Mikael