European Wolfdogs
 

Hello!
I just came across this site, I guess the inevitable has happened :/ high content wolfdogs from Netherlands, one line with north American timber wolf blood, and one line with European wolf blood. I can't help myself wondering if they used Saarloos wolfdogs (the breeder being from Netherlands) or even our Vlcaks. I have to admit but I would really like to meet a high-content wolfdog, but I'm completely against this project because I'm certain some of these animals will suffer in incompetent hands. If american wolfdogs and their owners are anything to go by... then these pooches are screwed :/

http://www.europeanwolfdogs.com/

http://www.facebook.com/EuropeanWolfdogs

Pitiful animals and unscrupulous people...

As far as the csv is concerned if I remember correctly they do not like the breed. Don't have much interest in the breed either ;)

I wonder how it's possible to get EUROPEAN wolfdogs from AMERICAN wolfdogs. Miraculous metamorphosis? :rock_3

Ok, the black and white wolfdogs are really beautiful, though as Rona said not quite European :twisted:, but the rest of the pack? The female looks like a vlcak, though I guess not so wolfish as they would like her to be and the male looks like some sort of variation on saarloos. I don't get it :( but their web site is awesome :p

No I think the name "European wolfdog" suggests they're trying to market wolfdogs to people from Europe (and be the go-to breeder of wolfdogs in Europe) and not to name the "breed". In the USA they are easy to obtain, now I guess they'll be easy to obtain here also. The two bloodlines serve to differentiate the product - larger american wolfdogs being more exotic and probably higher priced than the european wolfdog that is smaller.

Exactly

Yes, and their european wolfdogs are not as wolfish looking as their american

a little confused since they seem to be breeding mixes of the two types? :|

I suggest elephants. Even more exotic and much bigger :p

Good one :lol:

Hahaha, then they would be called European elephants, and people would be confused and complain - there is no elephants in Europe! :D hehe

As far as the 2 bloodlines go, for now it seems they are not planning to mix them (only breed american type with other american type wolfdogs etc.), so the american and european "look" stay different, ...makes more sense.

That's not what it says here about their 'American' boy: http://www.europeanwolfdogs.com/English/Polar.html

'He likes to play with Raven and Faust and we hope to pair them up in the future'. Faust is one of their 'European' females...

Damn, I only saw the planned litter for this year Raven x Polar. It would make more sense to me to keep the lines separate, but what are you gonna do... :/

See your point. ;-) Why not bizons then? There are both, European http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_bison and American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_bison :rock_3
Definitely bigger!

This is about 2 dutch men (Robin en Willem)living together in the Netherlands,who have Saarloos wolfdogs,

http://www.exumbrarumsilva.com/Ex%20...um%20Silva.htm

And I know they have 1 American wolfdog,I hope they don't mix the Saarloos with the American :evil:

Rona, it is very simple why some people like american wolfdogs more, they are not shepherd like the czech wolfdogs, they are absolutely calm and some people think, they look more beautiful. I would say, these are reasons enough to go for an american wolfdog!

And yes Smokey, these Robin and Willem are the same guys and it seems that you posted their old website. I do not believe that they will mix the americans with the europaens. By the way, they do own only Raven. A Polar does not exist. It is Knuth from Jos de Bruin. If you look right on the website, you will notice that, where you can see "Polar" and Knuth, Photoshop does his work, lol.

Christian
www.wolfdogs-siouxtala.de

Chistian, sorry, but I don't belive you :(. You stronly claimed that adult CSV cannot befriend and play with other dogs of the same sex, but from my perspective this is not true. I still take my girl (4,5) to dog park twice a week and though she does not like each new female as she used to when she was a pup, she has still made friends with several ones. I can also trust he 100% with humans, including children. If you were wrong with this issue and has never bothered to admit that, why should I believe other things you're saying? :?

Dogs, wolfdogs and wolves (elephants and bizons too) are each individual creatures with particular set of physical and mental features and it's a huge simplification to make generalizations like you do. The fact that your CSVs are always aggressive and ALL your wolfogs placid does not mean that ALL CSVs are aggresive and ALL wolfdogs placid. By making such statements you mislead and disinform people and wether you like it or not, take responsibility for possible misfortunes of disppointed owners and abused animals.

Rona, it is an gentical issue. 4 wolves - 1 two times - and about 50 military working line german shepherds were the breed founder of the csw. Correct? This is the basis of the breed. And as everybody knows military working dogs are the most aggressiv working dogs - no matter if in czech or in germany army. I mean the average and not the specialist under them who are only educated for searching or bomb fndings.

American wolfdogs are founded with german shepherds too, but not military and not working ones. But mostly Siberian Huskys, Alaskan Malamutes and Alaskan Huskys were used.

Nobody must be any specialist to see, where the difference is. I must admitt that in the meantime where the csw is mostly F 10 there are more and more "friendly" dogs. But still they are nervous dogs, are very noisy.

Rona I get almost every two days a mail from young csw owners, who asked me for help. The reason is, because people like you do not tell the truth. Your dog is an exception but not the average csw! I am every year at csw, Saarloos and American wolfdog meetings. The most noisiest meetings are the csws and msot of them are chained! That is different to Saarloos and American wolfdog meetings. You will hear anything! And most of them can run lose.

I am always wondering about people like you, who never met an american wolfdog, that they do write about them.

Yes in comparison to Saarloos and American Wolfdogs, CSW are aggressiv! AndI guess, you know that I know about 500 different csw, because I am traveling a lot.

I can only repeat, because of people like you people buy csws and get rid of them mostly in the first year.

Christian

I'm not hiding the truth from people, nor have ever lied about CSVs! I've talked several people out of getting a CVS, because they aren't easy breed, + require much time, energy and work. I know quite a few pretty agreesive vlcaks, but also several "normal" ones. The latter usually have particularly good contact with their owners, have been raised at home with the family and well trained.

I'm only saying that not all vlcaks are the same, unlike you, who claim that all wolfdogs are.
And believe me: there are people who are not at all interested in wolfdogs nor attracted by them. ;) I'm very happy with my vlcak! For me there is more to the human-dog relation than wolfish appearance and placid/shy character :)

Rona, I am always taling about the average behaviour of a wolfdog! There are of course exceptions, good ones and bad ones.

And please watch my blog, watch the videos. Shy animals? I can not see any. They are sometimes timid. But you can see too that they are workable, Tatanka doing mantrailing, it is a pup from Noomi. You will find pups from Noomi who go along with horsesand other things. My from me bred male Izzy on Christmas market on a saturday in december, full of people and he was for about 8 month not in the center of the City, because he is normally my sport dog - and he did it!
http://siouxtalaperrolob.blogspot.de...&max-results=7
Have fun

Oke Christian ;-)
Yes they are the same guys.
They mix the Saarloos Shadow with a Czech wolfdog.

http://wolfsblut-vom-burgstall.de/e-wurf-planung/

I don't know what the pups are called than?
Pups are mixes than.
But I understand the pups are more expensief than a pup with a pedigree?

No Smokey, the breeder used another wolfdog but not Shadow.

And yes, in germany, people may more for "mixed Wolfdogs than for a pure bred FCI pedigree wolfdog. People check out the pairings and see/think that these combinations are maybe better than a pure breed for example czechoslovakian wolfdog.

But so far I know, the mother was a csw/malamute mix. Father from last litter - pups got just to their new home - is american/csw mix.

Oh, I see, it is another "new" litter, you meant Smokey. You are right csw female, and pure Saarloos? It shall be a F 3?! Yeah maybe from the french Skog Saarloos line.

I think you didn't get my point. I'm simply NOT INTERESTED in wolfdogs. Just in dogs. :|

They just did, there is an announcement on facebook. Polar x Faust, "accepting deposits now". The same sentence that you find on most Hybrids-sites....

I hope it's not serious? There is a sufferer of cataract in line with Faust.Ik would not dare take the risk for the puppies.

but this not interesing :))) have this mix HD ED DM DW PRA? I think not, when they are 101% healty

The prices for wolfdogs are around 2500 Euros and a lot of people simply want a big wolfish looking dog, as exotic as possible. That it is possible to visit the peripher areas of a market with a dog lying under some shelter or to find a family member on an emty area seems to be enough to dream the dream of a pet-wolf.
According to the amount of money that can easily be earned without any kennel or health controles advertising is allready starting. Deposits for the Dutch kennel can be made and Sioux Tala is planning two litters this year and the so called "calm Sport Dog" has mated three females - I doubt for free.
This is a very special world with a lot of money and illegal actions involved those of us who are interested in DOGS will not understand.

Ina

I've got a question because I don't understand some things.
Are they saying that these wolfdogs, will have great character? Will be amazing home pets? Is it even still possible when they will mix the american wolfdogs with so called european ones which clearly are something between vlcaks and saarlooses. Will these mixes also give great characters ? Or is it just playing on human's stupidity to have something wild at home or in their yard. I would love someone to explain that to me :)

If you get a closer look you will find that what you think is a great character is something very different to what they see as a great character and calm. On the video I see an animal that is able to watch a slightly crowded area lying next to a known dog under a shelter with a steadily preasing owner, without panicing but without selfconfidence but slight signs of stress (the black one). It gives you something to think if this is something seen as being great and a sign of good charakter, for me this is nothing to mention. I did put in a video here of some crosses on an exhibition. The owners see perfect behaving dogs, everybody else saw terribly stressed fearfull animals.
On the other way round a normal CSW is terribly aggressiv for them because it will not run away on the first sign of anything potentially threatening.
So in conclusion a CSW is not a good family dog but a whatsoever American or European Wolfdog is.

Ina

So they see what they want to see, this is just sad. Mainly because there are plenty of people who would love to have something wild at home, but do not really know that it may have dangerous consequences.

It is mainly sad for their animals. We will have a very huge Hybrid-Problem in some years and no sanctuaries to keep them as they don´t fit in normal shelters.

Ina

Quote (There is a sufferer of cataract in line with Faust.Ik would not dare take the risk for the puppies. )
Is there any, just any line with no illness at all????Most dogbreeds carry about 300 till 400 genetic foult's mister so get real.
And what did anyone suggest my Knut made love to an European? Christian get real, stop telling these lies. And just give back the stolen property that i've bin asking for. It is not yours so youre a thief and i gave you an oppertiunity to make it right. And what do you do? Spreading roomers and lies around.
Jos

And may i remember that it is nothing new an American Wolfdog is earlier bin bred to an tjechisch wolfdog. And even Christian himself just give his black stallion to an Ami tjech wolfdoh mix.
But so what, what is an Amierican wolfdog? It is bin bred with husky and German shephard's. German S you know German from Europe. So what is an American wolfdog? Answer, it's an wolfcross with European dog!!! lol
Jos

From what I understand, this breeder (European Wolfdogs) now has two black phase (male and female) , as well as one arctic type male American wolfdog, from Mace Loftus' lines. I have no clue though about the Saarloos/CsV crosses/mixes that they did have previously, I think they still have them but seem more focused now on the Mace line N. American wolfdogs.

I don't think they had a litter of puppies yet from any pairings with their own high contents, but are always planning to...

But I have not been paying attention to them for a while now so maybe I have missed something... :P