British Kennel Club Recognition
 

So now all I need to do is to find a breeder that trusts me not to cross a csv.....half way there to importing one :)

May be even that having ability to import one, people who really like CSV will have a choice, will not buy from dodgy breeders in UK, making their business less profitable, and eventually to stop it. All we have to do is to convince potential owners to rather get their dogs from trustworthy breeders from continent than from unsure in UK.
Well, I do not know situation here that well, but it makes sense to me.

Just got a letter from UK - a man looking for a wolfdog female for his CzW-inuit cross :D Wants to "bring in a fresh line" :lol:
Maybe I just had to tell him to look for suitable dogs in France? He would find some friends among breeders there :rock_3

:badbad:evil_2:banghead:huh:chainsaw2:pissed :snipersmilie

Well, everything is ok - I think before selling puppies to "doubtful" countries, breeders should first consult some people we all know and trust here. Like in case of UK I would first maybe try to contact tupac2legs for example and ask if she knows anything about the concrete person :roll: This time the person was open about his plans, next time he might get smarter...

Good tip Vaiva :) Tupacs2legs is a good contact and will give honest opinions (I don't know her personally, but have read a lot of her postings here and elsewhere and she only speaks common sense and good practice)

It's a bit like contacting breeders in the other country, except that there aren't any trustworthy ones (that I know of) in the UK. I know of one 'breeder' who sells Pure F3 CsV's in the UK... :?

She would take responsibility for that person this way, you never know what he is going to do later on. But it is better to check with some one, than to not. Tupacs2legs is a good guardian of CVS purity :lol:

how very nice of you to say so :lol:

yes,i hide no secret of loving and wanting to 'protect' the breed,its something that has 'upset' quite a few people :(

back to the topic....but im sooo happy,i would not of entertained importing under the old timescale :)

You can't imagine how happy I am. Once I felled in love with this breed, I have read more and more about them, just to find out there are very few pure CSV in UK. I said, it is not so bad, I can import one from homeland. Then I was told about 6 month quarantine. I was so ruined. Then Rona light up a little spark of hope, saying someone told her something is about to change :happy

It is great news - I would love a Saarloos - but no-one in this country will breed pure as 'people cannot cope with them'....

Its a line used as an excuse fro crossing the CsV in this country as well and makes me SO mad!

....one day......
(Dream on!!)

Eh?!
Does it mean they tell people that an FCI recognized breed with standarized character are less suitable to people than an mix with unpredictable character?! :roflmao
Gosh... why do I breed pure dogs!? We should all start to only re-home mongrels then! Easier, less expensive and we end up saving lifes.

I can't laugh much of UK breeders while in here we have yet people who swear their molossers are free of HD because such ill "does not exist in the breed", that's why make the X rays would be only a waste of time as all dogs are naturaly free, even if it's an Bulldog or an Labrador. :errr

a breeder and i have gone over this possibility (in jest only)... she would send me mutts from the european countryside and i will market them here as something exotic... :twisted::twisted::lol:

It's a pity you're not a breeder, Layla! :( Think about it! :rock_3 :)

...No - you can Laugh at the UK breeders.....its either that or cry!!

I got quite offended when they called my pure bred dog (not a Vlcak) an Inbred cripple!!.... because of course the other reason for crossing is that they (crosses) are always healthier.....

One might fear what they would call a pure vlcak? :twisted:

I mean I have nothing against mixes or mongrels, we all know they make great pets! But I don't see any reason why producers of mixes call themselves breeders? The word "breed" indicates certain level of predictability of what one might expect from the dog he/she buys.

Probably more like lottery

Vaiva, please tell me ... do you have the name of the person?
I might get a similar email from UK. I'm almost certain is the same guy asking how he can get a puppy from Romania ... he also mentioned that he has a inuit/czech wolf ... but off course doesn't reveals his intentions this time.

Regards everyone,
Beatrice.

Well, this person just contacted me again, shouting that he read this topic and he feels I am writting about him. He states the his male is neutered and he is in fact looking for a purebred female for purebred breeding. Anyway, before that his answer to my long e-mail about the meaning of pedigree dogs and about the importance to widen breed's genopool but not to make mixes, was "interesting point of view" :D So... everyone can make ones own conclusions. I invited him to register here and tell his own possition.

Very well.
I understand that he contacted other breeders too ... so it's obvious he has access to this database. I'm also waiting to find out what he really intends to, but that will be off course just personal conclusions of everyone of us.

i find it very annoying and very sad,that people want to breed first and foremost,rather than living with and learning about the breed.

to buy a rare breed for the whole attention of breeding means only one thing to me :(

i agree completely! or even 'better', people who don't even know much about dogs in general (in addition to not knowing the breed) but wanting to create more.. :(

Are you actually sure that the person asked you of this as I have seen those emails, passed on to me today and I see no mention of your claims? :roll:

Think that could've been me.

I didn't want to get my hopes up when I first found out, knowing what DEFRA can be like. But now its official...brilliant.

Taz

Yes, it was you.:) Though honestly, I too, was more than sceptical at first. ;-)

yes that is true is that why ronnie winder refused to sell you a CVS and you then went to another breeder and got one, if this guy refused you a cvs he must of had dam good reason for when he vetted me it took 6 weeks and he even came to see my home and where i was going to keep my dog......

Whats a CVS??

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

you are definately new to uk, there are over 60 pure bred CVS in uk, but they are not fci registered, but they are pure bred 100% guarenteed, dont bite your nose off to spite your face, you may need a uk breeder one day, dont forget all you people if it was not for two people fighting Defra you would have no wolfdogs in the uk, as all the help from Europe dried up after 2 years and the people had to finnish the job themselves,,not one thank you was every recieved from Europe......

you are definately new to uk, there are over 60 pure bred CVS in uk, but they are not fci registered, but they are pure bred 100% guarenteed, dont bite your nose off to spite your face, you may need a uk breeder one day, dont forget all you people if it was not for two people fighting Defra you would have no wolfdogs in the uk, as all the help from Europe dried up after 2 years and the people had to finnish the job themselves,,not one thank you was every recieved from Europe......

the guy who introduced the cvs to uk sold his home in uk to go live in europe to learn and be with wolfdogs, he owned pure wolves in Ireland from the age of 15, when he got the cvs to uk he had to move house and hide his dogs from the authorities, he risked twice being sent to jail because he hid his wolfdogs and would not tell where they where, he took a cvs to crufts in 2003 and got it in the back door to try and promote the breed, his home has been raided by the authorities 4 times over the years trying to get his dogs, he took on defra and in 2008 got the law in uk changed so now you all can have wolfdogs, all this was done so this guy could own a CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOG, you just you just nipped down the road when all the work was done and purchased one from another breeder because the guy would not sell you one,,, are you a trusted person to contact in uk????

lol yes i wanted a csv not a cvs :-)

is what why?

i still have his emails,and i have nothing to hide...he kept changing his mind as to why(i have my own conclusions).....but also,the breeder i went to i had known previously for a few years,knew i was telling the truth and i would stand by my word..and i have...and i couldnt be happier with my dog :-)

why the animosity?

i know the history thanks :)

wot ,so its 'your dogs better than mine' because who bred it? lol you know nothing about me or my dogs...........you have to trust the breeder as well as the breeder trust the new owner,goes both ways.so what i went to another breeder,that does not make me untrustworthy.

anyway...sound jealous much?.

sorry my mistake is it csv not to worry bit like your wolfdog bit of a mix up,,,,,,,,,,,,:lol::lol::lol::lol:

I don't have a Wolf dog - I have a Mutt ;)

the saarloos that are in the uk only 4-5 are 100% pure, saarloos are not a difficult breed at all but getting a pure is hard and you need to go to breed club in Holland and talk to Gosling Mast

I am aware of this - thank you.

And for that I trully thank them. But what was real motives behind that is not so obvious. And if one of them is crossing CSV with other breeds, doing his own experiments, own projects I wont buy a puppy from him (it may be one of his experiments) only because he fought with DEFRA. It doesn't make him any more reliable breeder.

Maybe. Maybe not. There is a risk of getting cross instead, and it is too big for me, to take a chance. The risk is always, it just can be bigger or smaller.

If I am about to support someone I would like it would be a person with clear reputation, and motives... If there is any doubts about it, I will go to next one. Same with breeders, why I should support someone who may be in fact ie. hurting animals? If everyone would do the same, doubtful breeders soon would be left out of business, right? I am not saying every breeder in UK is bad. In fact I am sure many of them are wonderful breeders, but their CSV may come from not so wonderful kennels, or maybe they are not really aware of their CSV is in fact a cross. Risky, risky. No, thank you, I will not take chance.

??? I thought that person did it because of his love for breed, because he wanted these dogs to be in UK, make breed more popular in this country, not for thanks and applause. But I can be wrong... Otherwise why to demand it so many times on this forum?

Any way, this discussion is getting a little bit off topic.

When someone is banned from forum is it ok so make another screen name to post under? :vampv

Dont you wonder why?
The same heroic breeder who fought to save the breed from the evil DEFRA law was able to sell a dog mixed with her American Wolf to Germany not long ago.
He introduced the breed in UK with De Louba Tar & co dogs for after a fight (and only after it) he comes up pointing the finger for this breeder because of abused dogs due horrible conditions of the kennel and mixes by her.
But the best was the history of Tamaskans & Northern Inuit dogs, some friends of this reputable heroic UK breeder showed up at this forum or let its footprints at his webpage, we soon realize that they were all breeders of the most pure and with no wolf content Tamaskans and Northern Inuit dogs, even if we all suspected that some of these "tamaskans" were or mixes of CzW and Saarloos or even pure animals, soon after DEFRA change all these breeder - before completely against wolf content in their dogs - changed their webpages to breeder of multiple breeds, including SWH and CzW, togheter with wolf mixes, Tamaskan and some other "wolfy breeds".
We can imagine the size of the problem it caused not only to CzW and SwH but to Tamaskan and Northern Inuit Breed as well.
Without comment about the behave of this very heroic and reputable breeder at this forum.

As you can see it was a quite "magical" and "funny time". At this forum we were gifted with some pearls coming from the madness of this heroic breeder. :lol:

At the end wolfdog people had enough of him at the point to whish DEFRA never had changed the law.

Thanks to him good breeders are mainly reluctant to send dogs to UK.

PS: The funny thing, if not deceive me, is that the same heroic breeder said to everyone that he had special license to have these dogs and mixes. :lol:

you are new i spoke to ronnie winder on the phone, his advise to me is forget about the anti uk people on wolfdog.org, he said he only wants to know why everyone is so happy and glad that from 2012 it is easy to get Czech wolfdog into uk, he won his case in November 2008 and the czech wolfdog are legal in uk from that day, so why three years later is it still only him and 1 other breeder have imported any, the answer is easy they are alltalk and no action, they want lifted and laid,others to do the work, if they love the breed so much why has only these two people imported, ronnie has two new wolfdogs coming in before christmas, he has shown me how it is done and he has told lots of people how to do it,,,,,,but again no one imports, TO MUCH HASSLE,,,,,,,ronnie has asked me to ask you, he says you are from Poland he has great friend in Poland who breeds Czechoslovakian wolfdogs, he will help you get a wolfdog to uk anytime you want, he openly online via me invites you and some friends to his kennels as you live close to him, he will pay for all your transport and supply lunch for all, come and see his wolfdogs, email him at > Dont mail him, it's so good breeder that needs to create a fake user to post in this forum, as he knows everyone have tons f unreply questions which he will avoid to reply in quite fun and mad way< , when you read things on this site and all the money made from x breeding, why is it so very hard to get wolfdog from ronnie,,,,, big money breeder?? he has only bred 4 litters the first was in 2003,,,,,,,,so 1 litter every 2 years,,,,,,,,hardly a puppy farmer pumping out wolfdogs,,,,,,,so what have you to loose free transport,free lunch, meet a man who has bred dogs for over 38 years, has owned wolves, and high content wolfdogs for over 25yrs,,,,,and breeds the most beautiful wolfdogs you will ever see in uk or Europe,,,,,,if you come i will met you there for the benifit of one very suspicious person from USA, i am not ronnie winder and i was definately not born in the uk,,,,,,,

Is it OK to post breeder solicitation from WD-unlisted breeders too?

Or maybe they were more interested in having a young puppy, to form a long and lasting bond of trust with, than to bring in an older dog and breed with it almost immediately??

Most reasonable people choose the breeder they do because they trust and respect that person and their motives and the way they protect the breed, NOT because they get a free day out, with lunch...

It seems to me that most of the breeders in the UK are responsible for the situation they are in - you(r beloved Ronnie) included. Cross breeding (often secretly) and not continuing the push for Kennel Club recognition have put the breed in a very bad position, not to mention the crossing with wolves and reintroducing them (again under cover) into Europe. Most on this forum want the breed to be a success the world over, but it seems the UK is maybe beyond help :( - and slagging off UK owners of dogs from other breeders is just petty and demeaning, so STOP IT!

:cool3 !!!

Why if they loved the breed so much and went through all that effort fighting to have them removed from the DWAL, would they then cross them with wolves etc?

What possible good could/has it had for the csv breed, both here in the uk and as a whole?

Or, is it just a case of supply and demand?

Oh and has it occured to you that perhaps the reason why other people haven't imported already, is because they might want a puppy, as opposed to a juvinile or adult.

P.s.

Tupac's owner is the kind of person I want to see breeding in this country, there might be some hope for the breed here then. As it stands, all I see now is a mess, that needs cleaning up.


Taz

You're on the same wavelength as I am, Tazer :)

Are you now encouraging tupacs to breed her cross in the U.K. forgive me but I was sure you was against this?..why encourage breeding why not just encourage more understanding of the breed and instead of slapping cross owners on the back for their opinions,good work and so called protection of the breed {however how you can say they protect the breed when they have bought a crossed dog from the very breeders you all dislike is beyond me} this forum seems very much if your in our gang your ok even if you by buying a crossbreeded dog you are promoting this further each time you walk it and tell people about your dog..I think that shadowlands is correct I would hope that people feel that from Jan 2012 they can buy a puppy,develop an understanding of the breed and develop a bond with a life long companion and not just see the breed as a money making adventure!!! I moved to the uk for work with my family pet! I had to leave her in quarrentine and its was the most horrible thing ever to do...she isnt a status symbol,she isnt a breeding dog she is loved adored and I am constantly learning from her. education and promotion of this breed is most needed here in the UK but remember that all UK owners are not all breeders! dont intend to do so ! most of us just want to promote the breed and develop our understanding of them along side you all...and not as some of your forum members are doing holding court with their inuits in wolfdog clothing!!....

So we agree on one thing. 'Happyfeet' about encouraging understanding of the breed.

....Oh so now my Tupac is a cross is he...how convinient :roll:

And where have I ever said I would breed him?

I find it very sad and cannot understand why fellow csv lovers are attacking me? For what? For loving the breed and loving my dog?surely we should unite?

What do u know about Tupac? He is an unregistered csv.....yes I do have two 'mutts' as well that I love dearly...your point is?

Let me see, let me see... no paragraphs and tons of (,,,,) or (....) , oh, I was so happy you were being able to avoid shaking your fingers at these keys that I tried to ignores the warn of Yukidomari about your possible new account. :lol:

As you can see they have double (or more) personality, but one thing they clearly fear most is some kind of "competition" in their unetical breeding of mixes, then they are scared about the possibilitie of you breed like them without being one if his nice little friends.
Acting like they do, the last thing you can call them is "CzW lovers".

Well, say 'thank you' from me to mr Winder, for his generous offer. Don't want to be rude, but don't really see a point of such visit, as I don't think I need a help with importing puppy. I already took my decision.

Tupac is not a MUTT - only his mother and himself are non-FCI and this is simply because the UK Kennel Club do not yet recognise the breed; as soon as they do, he will be registered - he is a CsV, pure and simple. We should try to see round the cross breeders in the UK and recognise that there are some (albeit only a few) real CsV's born in the country. At no point has Tupac's owner said she will breed (in fact has expressly told me she does not wish to), so please get your facts straight before launching an attack.

You know how horrible it was to have your baby in quarantine :cry:. These new rules make it possible for people to bring in young puppies that they can form a lasting, loving bond with, the same as you have with your dog and I with mine :). Now they can bypass the UK breeders (which may hit their pockets, and hopefully some will stop tampering with the breed when it is no longer financially profitable - fingers crossed!) as long as they can convince a European breeder that they have the correct intentions for the puppy and breed in general, and that they will not breed until the UK Kennel Club enters the 21 century and joins the AKC and the FCI in recognising the breed.

Lets all pull together here and stop slinging mud to see where it sticks. It is essential if the breed is to have a future in the UK.

LIKE IT!
This is exactly what I hope for.
I even contacted KC to find out what is needed to get CSV recognized, but it looks more complicated and much more people have to be involved.

Marcy from Galomy Oak has achieved it in the States, so don't give up hope. Well done you for contacting them and asking, now we just have to find you some support and you'll all be on your way to getting the breed recognised :thumbs

Well, in the end we completely changed the topic from new importing rules in UK to UK breeding, old UK breeders and some histories related, I will work on it soon.

But I want to let clear here somethings, the breed in UK had a wrong start, unfortunatelly real CzW lovers trusted in the wrong person at UK, and after years thinking that was all right the truth starts to pop out, we had several fights and several unreplied questions.

In every country we can meet good and bad breeders and people, we only were unlucky enough to have as our first contact an bad exemple in UK, it's quite common to happen in CzW breed, it was the same in several countries and it didn't prevented people interested in move on to work and change the situation of the breed in their countries.

Im sure that if you want to change the situation of the breed in your country, and is willing to do it in way to help the breed with a really serious work, several people will be happy in help you in all possibles ways, after all what most lack in all breeds are serious breeders.

1. Tassle is the only one who has mentioned owning a csv cross here and I didn't mention her at all.

2. Tupacs2leg's attitude towards the breed here, for example wanting them to be bred pure and to be established as a breed in their own right, was what I was refering to with the remark I made. If you had bothered to stop and think that the comment had more meaning than the one you assigned to it, you would've understood that.

3. She knows what I think of her boys breeder infact, there're probably few people who've got me on the subject who don't understand what I think of it.

4. I absolutely agree with you ref education and understanding of the breed being most needed here and yes, not all owners want to breed thankfully. Its just most unfortunate that the one's who do, seem to want to breed them with what evers easiest to get hold of.


Taz

I saw an ad earlier today. The sire was a pure csv apparently, the dam was a csv x northern inuit.

Males were 750 quid
The female was...1000 quid.

Absolute madness.


Taz

What on earth has my comment about my crossbreed got to do with Tupacs dog???

That was nothing really difficult abut it. But, not so fast. I am a new comer to the breed, I don't even own a CSV yet. I have seen CSV in real time just two weeks ago... So I can't really call myself a beginner. Maybe in the future when I will have my dog, get know breed enough, dogs, and their owners... I can quote initial requirements from KC reply for CSV recognition.

And what has it got to do with my post, which was what he was responding too.


Taz

I was led to believe that there were a group of people who had organised and got the paperwork sorted to submit to the KC - however - I was told this by someone who, after swearing she was not intending to cross-breed her CsV, went ahead and did just that! So I doubt the validity of what she says now...

Possibly the saying 'Clutching at Straws' is applicable in this case.

very strange your hostility to me,as clearly we sing from the same hymn sheet(or so it seems) i think maybe you need to at least get your facts straight before attacking me for no reason.

Wow you have taken a great deal of time to edit my quote!

I asked a question to the whole forum, I have not attacked you in anyway, you stated in other posts you had 'crossed dogs ' and other members also have these crossed mixed look a likes with your dog coming from what I would class as a puppy farm that breeds 'crossed' dogs and now crossed czech with timberwolfs would it not concern you to your dogs history, because it would me?

Many of the forum members over and over keep saying that you should breed, I didnt say you had ? I think you can read whatever you like into my posting and make more from what you see!
This seems to feed the forum.

I think that it would be irresponsible to encourage breeding these dogs without KC reg in the UK {my view}

Would I trust anyone to breed these dogs in the UK...NO I WOULDNT! until and its a long until KC registration is give!....IT WILL BE A LONG LONG WAIT!!

I had no idea this forum excisted till I met a person on the tube who mentioned her friends dog and then got chatting... Seems to me that a few of you have a bee in your bonnet about the UK and to be fair in part I agree.

Forum posts are each persons individual perception,ideas and thoughts and we are all free to take part in them, whether you decide to like a comment or dislike one, read extra into them or change words to make them sound different is up to you!

I don't remember any post saying WHEN Layla should breed, she doesn't even have a CSV female :), so don't you worry. The suggestions about breeding were just forum members' appreciation of her attitude to her dogs, to the issue of breeding mixes, and of her views on the breed, health testing, training, etc., which she has been expressing on the forum for some time now.
From saying: "In my opinion you'd make a good breeder" or "I'd buy a pup from you, because I feel I could trust you", to actual breeding is a loooong way. ;-)

I hope I've explained this misunderstanding clearly enough.8)

Will it be irresponsible only to encourage breeding or to breed at all? It doesn't stopped many breeders, like mr Winder for example. Does it make him irresponsible breeder then, or is he an exception from this point of view?

As I dont know him or have never heard of him before the forum post
I couldnt comment on him or his practices!

I think {in my opinion } any breeding or protential breeding of these dogs should only be done in the UK once KC reg is gained....by perhaps registered vetted breeders if that is at all possible?

Ive seen 2 'breeders' websites one in devon and one in orkney I have not seen his until today

It did make me wonder ..if he is such a terrible person and had no care for his puppies why he would go to such an extent to vet everyone he sells a puppy to and even rejected members of this forum? Strange... conflicting messages really!

There is obviously a demand for the dogs in the U.K but worries me that people are buying into something that they may not bargain for!

One would hope that people thinking of buying this breed would do research and find forums like this to make themselves aware before purchasing!! one can dream!!

..however I also didnt know this forum or website excisted either!

if I was to consider another dog I wouldnt buy from the UK until the breed was registered...{in my own opinion}

furthermore even after owning a czech wolfdog for over 10 years and living in the UK for a few years I wouldnt even consider breeding dogs!
I still think I am learning more and more everyday!!

hmmmmm..ofcourse not Rona?

For example he could reject someone from this forum (why not? If demand is so high he will find another buyer no problem) just to say in future "look how wonderful breeder I am, I've rejected one of you, because I really care about my pups." Or if a cross would be sold as a pure CSV, someone from this forum could actually find out that, and make a lot of unwanted noise on the forum. Explanations may be many, so I don't think these messages are conflicting really. I never said he is a terrible person. He just crosses CSV with others breeds, and I don't really like to get my dog from breeder who does that. That's it.

yes ! and thankyou :)

happyfeet... my crossbreed dogs are not wolfdog crosses by the way.

and the 'orkney' breeder does not breed pure.(but does own pure)

and the conversations via e-mail (3 in total i think) to mr winder were not as exciting as u would wish.....one of the reasons was , 'quote'....he 'would not risk a female to be spayed as they are too valuable to the breed at the moment' hmmmm........ is that me encouraging breeding with unregistered dogs ???.

hmm.. but couldnt any of the breeders? I dont think that many prospective owners use the forum and there are quite a few forums, to be fair I've never seen the forum until 3 months ago and was put off registering as its quite anti UK on many threads. So what you have to say on here surely makes no difference to the breeder, but who knows!! we dont know why he rejected members of the forum I find it highly unlikely it would be because they are members?

I still think that its all conflicting... would I buy from him..NO, Why? Because I would need to know more,see more and speak with a breeder first to make my own mind up whether he or she is fit and responsible in my own eyes..be it UK/EUROPE

Being a member on here and a breeder doesnt in my mind say this person must be good as they post on a forum?

Does he care for where his puppys are going well he seems to ? and we agree on one thing would you buy from a breeder who also breeds crosses? NO too risky!

Did I say that you had said he was a terrible breeder? I think not!!!

Its a shame that he isnt able to respond to the treads and quotes and voice his own opinion as we all can do.
However I dont know the history of the breeders etc so perhaps there is a reason he was blocked from commenting?

This is exactly what I meant: that a person like Layla would make a very reliable and trustful breeder.

You might not be aware of the fact that usually it takes a few months to recognize "the pup market" - sometimes it takes a year or more to get a pup from a litter and kennel one is interested in, not to mention the necessity of raising (saving) funds for the pup and its transport. After the pup is imported it takes at least two years to raise, X-ray, train & bonitaite the female (if somebody wants to follow the ethical breeding principles, naturally). Sometimes CSV females are not on heat until they are two or three years old, and then there is still the matter of finding a suitable (tested X-rayed) stud and registering the kennel etc.

As you can see there's a long way from "thinking about breeding" to "breeding", and the Kennel Club might be recognized in the meantime, which I hope will happen.
Besides, I don't even know if Layla will ever take my advice seriously. She might have some other plans for her life. :roll:

To me your concern about her not breeding seems a bit .... weird :? As far as CSVs are concerned, I think there are many more worrying problems in the UK.

As my original reply was to the whole forum, I think my concern was fair and I did say origninally it confused me. I think the other post from the friend of a breeder was much more thought provoking than my reply and questions..and I didnt attack anyone just asked a simple question...

I dont think that KC will allow registration of this breed in the UK for quite some time so dont hold your breath!!

I am an owner not a breeder, the process I am fully aware of, however be it in jest or not you still encoraged it on this forum! which lead me to ask the question and thankyou for your reply

Well, good prospective owner will do a research on breed before even deciding does he want to be a owner of such breed, right? Well, assuming he is able to use internet, that will be one of first places to do such research. When typed "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog" into google, wolfdog.org came up on second and third place in search results. I think if someone never heard of wolfdog.org, never really searched anything about CSV in internet.
I never had problem registering on this forum and I am from Uk, and I never initially stated that I am Polish in fact.

100% agree.
Regarding Tupac as breeder, I think Rona has such opinion about Tupac not only because she is a member of this forum, and she posts.

Oh, really? I'm in touch with somebody from DEFRA, and this person has a different opinion on this subject. It's all a matter meeting formal requirements, and since importing pups with good pedigrees from different and interesting lines will be easier soon, they may have been fulfilled sooner than you think. 8)

Why don't you ask a couple of European breeders how many enquieries about selling a pure bred CSV pup to the UK they have recenty had....:)

You presume that eveyone has internet? and that eveyone has knowledge of searching...I dont think this is actually a true reflection. I have access but very limited experience of the internet and forums....so for me its been an eye opener? perhaps thats my age!!
many of my friends hardly use the internet and are not very techno savvy....

Its good to hear all about your experience on the forum and nice to be able to share my own!

One would hope that all the people enquiring about puppies are going to push for registration and acceptance of the breed with the KC? perhaps something breeders could promote?

I dont need to ask breeders as I am not interested in having a puppy I very happy with my own dog , but thankyou for the information I am sure its good advice for other readers considering importing too the UK.

Indeed, though I believe the someone in question stated they gathered all the paper work from the other people, who they then stated were never actually interested in getting the breed recognised in the first place.

Jmo, but I believe they just didn't want to work with each other. It would mean they'd have to put aside their differences and work for the betterment of the csv breed, rather than for the betterment of themselves and their pet projects.

I'm of the opinion that the future of the csv in the uk, lies not with those currently breeding (unless they change their ways) but with the owners of the pure csvs they've produced and with future owners/importers providing they've the right attitude. I'd go as far as saying, that those currently breeding have lost their right to any future involvement with the development of the breed here. Unless of course, as I said earlier, they change their ways and are able to prove it.

Possibly, or they've just got their wires crossed.
Yep, that's it exactly.

I hope so, wonder which group they'd be put in. In other countries they seem to end up with all the herding breeds, which they aren't, I'd think working or utility would be a better choice for them.


Taz

hello i am james i own a Czechoslovakian wolfdog bred by ronnie winder, i live only 3 miles from him, i have visited his kennels many times, he breeds Czechoslovakian wolfdogs and he breeds other wolfdogs, he has never told any lies, he has bred a czech wolfdog to a wolf, but he has never bred a czech wolfdog to any other bred of dog, he bred the czech to the wolf as this is what he does with many breeders in European countries, Ireland and USA, i can assure you it is very hard to get a wolfdog from this man, 101 questions, he googles your post code to see where you live, he wants to know all about your life style, kids, animals, as i work and am away for 5 hrs a day he insisted i build an outdoor kennel and excercice area and that i also got another dog to keep the wolfdog company when i was at work, i have a labrador as well which he insisted i got castrated,,he treats everyone the same when vetting and only sells to best homes,,,,,,,,,,if you live in uk then email ronnie he wont eat you, and you can arrange visit to see his dogs and you can go into large enclosure with a pack of wolfdogs it is an experience you will never forget,,,,,,,james.

And mixing Czechoslovakian wolfdog with a wolf is NOT a purebred breeding. It is making of hybrids and none of decent CsW breeders will ever do it or say it is ok to do it.

i am james friend of ronnies or as he has told me you will know him as paul,,,,,,LOL suprized to see you on hear talking wolfdogs, but he did laugh when i read your
never arque with an idiot
they drag you down to therelevel
then beat you with experience,,,,,,,,,,

his reply
only an idiot or half witt
would try and act like they know it all
then try and take on someone with experience
you learnt a good lesson i hope.......

maybe you need to look closer to home and see who does the same in your country because it has been done many times by many breeders over the years, the big difference with ronnie is he does not defruad people not like breeders in Europe who register x bred czechoslovakian wolfdogs with FCI............YOU KNOW IT HAPPENS AND SO DO WE ALL......so dont slate him for something he does and loves, look at his dogs they are out of this world, people from Europe own many of his wolfdogs, dont mix the jealousy of some people with people who dont like the fact that the czechoslovakian wolfdogs are in the uk,,,,,,,,ronnie complained about a bitch owned by Alunimum kennels in Italy,that had been used for breeding 10 times in 11yrs, first litter at under 1 year and 4 litters by the time she was only 2.5 yrs old, he was told to mind his own buisness and that the laws in Europe where different to uk, but this is not breeding its abuse of an animal, ronnie was banned for he would not let this matter drop, RONA was the main person think it was because ronnie said if all the litters are here on wolfdog.org then why did the moderators or people who do the data base not report this matter,,,,,,he was also called a liar by Rona years ago about de louba tar kennels ,,,,,,so happens ronnie was correct and de louba tar puppy mill was shut by authorites ,,,,,,,,,,dont condem this guy because he wants new bloodlines and used mother nature and one of his czechwolfdogs, the joke is he done it for breeders in Europe,,,,,,,,,,,:lol:

you seem very sure of things Rona, for your information there where enough Pure bred czechoslovakian wolfdogs with FCI export pedigrees in the uk, to meet the uk kennel clubs requirements three years ago and seven of them belonged to your favorite Irishman ronnie.........
;-)

Following this way of thinking - I can shoot people on the streets. Oh, yeah I can. It happens everywhere, right? No one can point it out against me because others are doing so as well....
Well, I see Mr Winder had used this argument many times before, so he thinks that gives he right to cross. I prefer to compare myself with people better than me, not the worse ones...

Could you PLEASE use at least commas?... It is totally impossible to understand what you are writing...

But startingwith your first sentence - what CsW breeders in "my country" are making CsW/wolf hybrids? :lol: We would all be very interested to hear it.

you are very correct PATRYK and ronnie doesnt live to far from you my friend and he knows everyone in uk with wolfdogs and the people you have been contacting,,,,,,,,buy the way how do you like the uk? small world Patryk isnt it,,,,,,,

...........lol!!

yes, it's been done by others and it has also been similarly condemned by all lovers of the PUREBRED BREED called Czechoslovakian Vlcaks. perhaps you would care to look at the other threads on here in which others who cross breed have also been criticized? I suppose this 'breeder' has received like treatment.. is there something odd about that?


Even if Ambra at Arimminum was bred like that, it was still under the auspices of the Italian Kennel Club which did register her litters. And as they are the holders of the pedigrees of purebred dogs in Italy, if they say it's OK then by the rules of purebred breeding it is OK, whether or not you personally agree with it.

last i knew, Mr. Winder was banned for using foul, abusive language on the forum..

I see no provisions under FCI for breeding purebred dogs for the type of breeding Mr. Winder prefers?

they are not 'new bloodlines' and not helpful to the breed when the pedigrees will not be accepted and they are not authorized crossings. for whatever reason it was done, it was not done to support the futurity of Czechoslovakian Vlcaks.

What Are you actually trying to say? What the message is? World is small because you know my name?
I like UK very much thank you.

He uses commas (better saying, he overuses it), but in wrong place. :lol:

Now we have an veeery close friend of Ronnie, who knows so deeply his history and mind that arrived to the point of even write like him 8)

Sorry, but it must be a mistake. I have nothing to do with breeding nor abusing dogs! I have ONE female, who lives in our flat as a family member, and I have never bred, nor intended to... so I don't even know much about breeding regulations!

I'm afraid Mr Winder must have misinformed you, see the posts beneath:
I only politely asked for explanation:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...2&postcount=29
Thanked for it:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...7&postcount=38
supported Mr Winder against attacks of some French forum memebers:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...6&postcount=52

and finally refused to be involved by Mr Winder in the "kennel war"
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...&postcount=184

I've never called anybody a liar on this forum or any other!

Your surprised and I'm amused, well isn't this thread just full of emotion.

Only one with a weak or non existant counter argument, would respond with such...immaturity. I was warned that such would be the case, though I still find it disappointing that someone who claims experience, by their actions would to an outsider appear unable to argue against my words.

I'd expect that if someone was being accused of acting like they know it all, the accused would have written their statements as fact, not opinion. Which, as you should have noticed (though if you didn't, look again) I clearly state (more than once) that the written content is opinion,not fact.

Just my opinion of course.


Taz

Am I the only one who finds this a bit threatening?? I think Hedeon needs to take out a restraining order against these idiots :). Exactly the wrong type of people to be owning - and certainly breeding - CsV's, imo...

Watch it, you'll be next lol. But no seriously, it does come across as a bit...stalkerish. Again, that is jmo, you know just to make that absolutely clear.


Taz

I find it.... hmmm.... pathetic would be a polite word :lol:

No, you're not. Well, I will leave it with no comment. Just let it to speak for itself.

Hello James

Thankyou for the info on the way the breeder vetted you.

I am not in the market for a puppy as I have a 6 and half year old pure laid at my feet and hope that I have a good few years yet!


I dont mind your dots and dashes, I dont really think it matters in the whole scheme of things , I see many spelling mistakes etc from a few members but just think its because english is a second language to some and over look it. I put my spelling down to age and limited keyboard skills!
I sometimes do it myself as I am thinking and hit a few extra keys.

Your examples are totally inapropriate !! JUST MY OPINION....

I see this and think should I read on this is a terrible example!:roll:

he was blocked because he kicked up about this czech wolfdog being abused by top kennel as breeding machine, look it up, AMRA VLCI NADEJE or go to data base and find kennel ARIMMINUM 10 litters of pups producing 69 pups breed 3 times to same sire, first litter was born when bitch was just 1 year and 3 days old last litter bitch was 10 yrs and 5 mths old when she had last litter,,,, but this is not the only kennel breeding like this is it,,,, also in data base put in non fci, you get some non fci czech wolfdogs but the site has removed many many of the x bred ones,,,,,,ok for europe but not for uk,,,,,,,ok for european breeders to x breed, ok for european breeders to mix in wolf ,,,,,,,,,,,,in uk they cant and dont try to register the x breds in europe many back street breders do,,,,,Admin please put up all non fci wolfdogs for all to see,,,,,,Rona you and other condemed mr winder for his comments on the breeding practice of Arimminum kennels i have read old posts,but you did remove a lot didnt you,,,,,question to MIJKE can you give people of uk full list of all health defects found in this breed Czechoslovakian wolfdog, it would be nice to have them all,,,,,,,,

I feel responsible for my words and I have never ever removed ANY of my posts!!! Not to mention that not being a moderator I simply could not do it!

Neither have I ever approved breeding many litters from one female, and even once asked Edit (Crying Wolf) on the forum how it was formally possible for her to register 3 litters of the same bitch in 2 years. Not that I was satisfied with her relpy, but what can we do if Hungarian KC accepts such practices?
Nevertheless, I would never support such a kennel and buy a pup from them, though somebody told me, you(r beloved Ronnie) did so :( IMO an experienced and responisble breeder should research a kennel well before getting a dog, so lack of knowldege does not justify such a step.

I see you, just like Mr Winder, seem to have some obsession with me, but I could not have abused my female because I have never bred any pups, so leave me alone, please.

Younger forum members might not know, but when I first joined wd in 2004 I was really trying hard to help Mr Winder struggle with DEFRA - signed petitions, wrote several letters, even organized a small pressure group: my family an friends in the UK supported the case by e-mailing DEFRA! I also took and forwarded photos showing how "normal" dogs CSVs were etc. etc.

Believe me or not, but I was probably one of the most disppointed members of this forum when I found out that Mr Winder was mix-breeding CSVs with a wolf, thus IMO - abusing the breed! In my country, if a registered breeder is found to have done so, he's banned from breeding for good: his kennel is closed and he cannot ever become a National KC member and show his dogs in dog shows. 8)

And please don't tell me that breeders in other countries break the law or code of ethics - just like Hedeon mentioned - this is not a valid argument, because it does not give one any rights to do the same.

We all know that it's not truth, also I knew you would come back and try to use this excuse for explain why you was banned at that time, and that is exactly why I did this topic at Administration forum.

How you supposed she did that, if she clearly isn't Admin or an Moderator?
Uuhm... There is some kind of Daltonism which have exactly this effect, to mistake yellow and blue, have you ever think about visit an good ophthalmologist?!

It isn't ok in any country ruled by FCI. Haven't mr Winder, which lived long time in Europe to learn about wolfdogs and breeding (as you said), told you about that?

Mr. Winder contacted me personally on Facebook, telling I am wrong not to be happy about CsW/wolf hybrids in UK, because people in Europe do the same. I asked for names of dogs again, and Mr. Winder dissapeared :|
Anyway, I have an idea which Lithuanian bred dogs might look like wolf hybrids for unexperienced eye and this makes me really happy :D