Is the Czechoslovakian wolfdog breed for me?
 

Hello!
I am very interested in owning a dog of this breed. I was wondering about other owners experience with working with them. I am looking to get another dog (I own a 4 year old 60lb female gsd). How are these dogs with protection work and detection(narcotics, fire arms, and explosives). I recently took a k9 training course and would like to have my own dog to train from the start. I have seen alot of videos on this breed and they seem like goofy, fun dogs. I heard that you can do this training but do not know how often it happens. I want a dog that will be a fun companion and workable. Does this sound like a breed for me?

Dear Lisa you can take contact to Marcy Goldstone, she can tell more about this breed and you can see CSW in real in her home. (lives in Virginai also)

same post taked away.

Well, for a person, looking for these features in a dog, I would better offer a Belgian, not a wolfdog... Wolfdogs are great dogs, yes, they are trainable, but if "protection work" comes very high in your list, it is not a best breed for you ;-)

I have thought about the Belgian malinois. I have worked with several of them.
I just don't think they are the dog for me. They seem to only want to work.
I should of mentioned that my main focus for training is detection and obedience. If i can get one to do some protection work thats just a bonus:).

lol I didn't explain enough how I feel the malinois behaves I was half awake when I posted the previous post. The malinois seem to only want to work. never want to just be a dog. I have a 4 year old gsd that i have done some work with(she was abused before I adopted her so she never could get her confidence up enough to complete her training). She is a sweet fun girl who loves every one. as soon as she sees her training equipment she knows its time to work. the malinois is always wanting to work, never calms down to just be a house dog. this is why I thought of the wolfdog. I would like a dog who is a great family dog but will get to work when its time. I could just get another gsd but I thought it would be nice to have opportunity work with this unique and amazing breed. But yes I am more focused on doing detection training and obedience. If I can get the pup to do some protection work then that's just a bonus.

Well, a CsV might not always want to work like a Mal, but it doesn't mean that they are calm in between..... :p

That's fine with me! :) when the dog is not working he or she will be in my very active life. I would take him/her hiking with me, dogparks, I work at a doggie daycare so they would go with me to work. My gsd is Czech working lines so I am used to the whole very high energy levels and I love it!

I love Belgian malinois' I havent had the opportunity to meet many though. If I wasnt set on a czech I would definitely consider a malinois.
Just how trainable can a cwd be?... I would be happy with an excellent recall and winning very cani-cross I entered!

You better get your running shoes on then Murph ;)

I like Malis - but I think you have to look carefully at the lines, there are some very hard and worky ones out there and there are also ones who are seriously laid back! I have a friend with one and she has had a devil of a job to get it motivated. She panicked I think and almost tried to suppress the drive when it was a pup and it worked a little too well.

I'm afraid I do not know enough about the CsVs to know if you have the same line issues.

Ok, so in this case you should really start thinking about CSV seriously :) just one thing - CSV might be not too friendly with other dogs. They are dominant and have a very expressive body language, this is why sometimes other breeds (who do not use this body language so much) do not understand them.

In my opinion its not breed for you. Mayby malinois have to much working drive but csv have nearly none. Next problem is motivation-low prey drive and i dont know the word-ofen they dont like eat too much. And next broblem they are rather too shy for k9 training.

:shock:
Ee, what?

Jefta,

Are you sure you are talking about the CsV? It doesn't sound like any that I have known...

I m talking just about that csv with I've seen-mayby 100 or more. I try also to train my csv for sport level. I cant put links here but on Czech forum is topic "trening fotki a videa" where topic author can see they work style. Persent of shy dogs you can see on you tube on movies from shows.

csv's dont eat much :shock: someone needs to remind Tupac!

and shy for training? are you talking csv or swh?

my Tupac gets very 'switched on' to training and when he is focussing he does it well...the trick is making it short and fun imo.

i am also concerned with the doggy daycare aspect or do you have a separate section for the staff dogs?

No we don't. The pup would be with me when I'm in the room. I will ask to always be in the small dog room while he or she is still a baby then once he gets older and goes into the big dog room I will still be with him. The dig day care isn't like most, we are very strict with the play. They can't get to rough and can't bark or run around like mad dogs. It helps reduce the excitement levels to reduce the risks of fights to slum to none. We take like 2 or three dogs at a time outside to run in the yards to get there energy out. it's a very good facility. I have work at some really bad ones where they let the dogs do whatever they want and they always fought.

The rooms are supervised 24/7 btw

i would still worry sorry :( especially as its mainly an indoor facility.

About 5 years ago I have dreamed about sucesfull training with this amaizing breed. Before buying I saw hunderds of csv on shows, meetings and training camps. I saw that everything is great only in internet. In real is much worst. I m from Poland not from USA so it was possible to see so much csv from varius coutries, lines etc. I had oportunities to make decision with knowlege all facts. After that I change my plans and I dont espect training sucses, but i decided to buy csv-very nice companion dog for activ people.

[quote=jefta;374826] i find that sad :( i see that as failure as a trainer not as a failure of the breed.

Why?.. If you are supervising your own dog?

[quote=tupacs2legs;374828]Its not so bad :) I want to train her for mayby top 10 of the breed. But in all its not high level :)


p.s high level for me is national or even world championship. Vaiva, Tupac, how much csv complete in national championship in any coutry and any discypline? Not much (any?) for so perfect working breed ;)

you are meant to be supervising your clients dogs ;-)

so the owner will be in the same room the whole time? ime a male wolfdog will need extensive training and watching for at least the first 2.5 years of life to possibly accept the sort of situation this would lead to,csv's are not always accepting of other dogs once they are fully mature ,of course they make friends as young dogs and they tend to keep these relationships throughout..but asking him to accept strange dogs everyday of his life in a fairly confined(indoor) setup could possibly be a challenge (that u may loose)and alot to ask of him..of course there are always exceptions.

Apparently you dreamed of a "nice" CSV :lol: Post 17: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17300

CSVs differ from each other a lot. Some individuals are better with kids, some - with sports, others - with tracking/trailing or guarding, etc.etc. If somebody wants a working champion he/she should get a more specialized, "nice" breed. ;)

I belive CSVs are more like kids in the family. While they're growing the owner should let the dog try various activities and watch which he/she is best at and then develop this particular talent. We found obedience boring, agility too "controlled", tracking OK, but trailing... most fascinating and interesting!

There was a discussion on this topic earlier, but many experienced owners found out that CSVs are best at "real" work activites - searching humans, guarding places, helping their owners in field work of any sort. However seriously taken, sport is always a "mock" activity.

Rona wrote that her Lorka is first not shy csv seen by her trainer. And you where so suprised when I wrote that they are shy...

same times ago I changed my opinion about training for similar to Rona.


just few csv works in reserching and traking. If as guarding dog you understand dog which is barking by gate but run away from figurant-yes they are good guarding dogs... I know much dogs this expiriend owners and my opinion about them is diffrent then owners opinion. I was thinking about it when I wrote that "internet true" is difrent than reality

I did mention that the trainer came from a country where there were very few vlcaks... I suppose this was the true reason of his opinion +
1. the fact that CSV training is much more challenging, time-consuming, and thus costly than of the "nice" breeds that do not 'think' as much as CSVs do.
2. the fact that one cannot easily predict and plan what kind of activity (if any) a vlcak would be happy and willing to do.

Well, I think vlcaks are very trainable, though not necessarily for exams designed for GSD, malinois and other "nice" breeds. 8)

First of all I do not know any CSV owners who would want to train their dogs for national/world championships. You must be the first. We have 400 breeds and mostly people who want sports or training also like other breeds. Admit - the ones who buy wolfdogs are very different from ones, who buy GSD, I have friends in love with GSD or Belgians and I find big differences between them and people having CSV, bull type breeds or hunting dogs. Most people who choose CSV are not so trainable themselves :roll: I myself find training boring and meaningless - I have my perfect dog, who can travel by train or bus, walk with me wherever I want, deal with situations and people - and she is much better in this when some training champions. Why should I want a dog who is good at protection if I am not working in police or army? :roll: Where will I use her ability to sit in one comand while we are walking? What is the use of jumping up the barriers?
In my "most beloved" breeds list come shibas, shikokus, salukis, bullterriers and now dogo argentino is coming to it hardly (because of one very special dog :rock_3) - not belgians, bordercollies, gsd. They are lovely and beautifull, but not the dogs that woulld be happy with me :)

When I got Brukne many dog lovers in Lithuania were totally sure that wolfdogs are "shy, psychically unstable, agressive, untrainable dogs" - but there were two CSV in Lithuania at the moment and people who were talking like that had never seen a wolfdog alive :D They simply decided, that a "wolf-mix" should be like that :D

Very good post, Vaiva! 8) Vlcaks are rational dogs for rational people :lol:

So in concusion csv is good breed for Lisa (obedience and k9) or not?


In Poland this is popular breed now. On every show people can see few csv from diferent lines and breeders. Its not opinion people which have never seen csv before.

I think Lisa will have to judge herself if the breed is for her or not, on the basis of what we've told her and what more she's able to find out about vlcaks. If training a dog for a particular sport is her absolute priority she should probably reconsider her choice, because when buying a CSV pup one has no guarantee he'll grow up to a smart working dog (though he might happen to, if she is lucky).

What opinion? That CSVs are not the best candidates for the top world working champions? I have never met anybody who would claim such a thesis. Have you? :shock:

My little opinion.. I personally think if you have preset sporting goals you'd like to meet with the dog, and if you don't meet those goals you would be very disappointed in the dog, then a CsV is not for you.

If you would like to find a dog in which there are possibilities, and whom you can learn and train together, and be happy with that, then it may be the dog for you..

Well What I think I need to do is meet some wolfdogs and see them for my self. If I end up with one and he/she turns out to not be a good working dog, its not going to make me dislike the dog. I got my gsd for working purposes. she turned out to not have enough confidence there for not being a good working dog, this did not change the way i feel about her. I love her, she is my girl and i wouldn't give her up for anything :). When it comes to training for detection work. The dog needs have no fear of small spaces, dark areas, obstacles etc. and of course high pray/ball drive. Does this sound like a wolfdog?

I suppose this varies from one dog to another.

High ball drive rather not. But there are exceptions ;-)

High food drive :D
Today I wanted to remind Brukne some ring training, but understood I have no treats at all. You know, frozen sprats work just fine for her too :D

Rona, opinion that Lorka is first no shy csv come also to me even that I live 300-400 km from you and we spend time with difrent type od doglovers :)


my beagle hate csv but she loves going on csv meetings-there is so much food which they dont want to eat :)

Hmm, ok, what do we call "shy"?

Your signature pictures don't look like this is true...

and if Shadow were around, there would be NO food lying for your beagle, she is a canine vacuum cleaner :roll:

:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

I understand this is a joke? :rock_3:lol: I may assure you that out of 11 CSVs that live in or close to Krakow, which I occasionally meet on various occassions including trainings!, one is (or rather used to be) a bit shy, and one is very shy. It's a beautiful dog and very much loved by his "pack", but the owner hardly socialized him, so the dog's shyness hasn't surprised anybody. :(

I'm afraid I don't follow... what do you find strange or unusual with CSVs not eating more than they need?:?

Well, I would find that highly unusual, but from the completely opposite experience. Both my wolfdogs ate as much as was available. Both are/were food thieves. All my pups (the healthy ones) would almost inhale their food just to be sure that they don't miss any. I know only few wolfdogs that would not eat much and most of them would start eating as soon as in company of other wolfdogs as they knew that nothing would be left if they hesitated.

The only wolfdogs I know that are not eating and are not persuaded by competition are dwarfs, and there it is part of their disease... For some young ones it may be a distraction from much more interesting things like chewing and fighting/playing.

I would say that high pray/food drive is a typical trait in wolfdogs. But you have to know how to utilize it.

The no fear of tiny places and dark and whatever is more difficult - you need to pick the right pup (inquisitive etc.) and then you need to socialize it a lot and make a good partnership and then you need to be lucky so that it does not have a bad experience... And because it is very active you need to bring it up properly, teach it to behave and obey. But than you'll have a wolfdog that is not afraid and trusts you enough that it would endure such unpleasant things.

I'd say wolfdogs are not for people who take the dog as a means to achieve something. If you want to get to a top of a big mountain, and you take a wolfdog, you may reach the top and see the beautiful sight, but you may also get to the top of the tree line and see that there is just too much fog and bad weather, and you just cannot go further, but you still have a great companion with you. So wolfdog is a way, and if that is what is important for you, go and get one. If the goal is more important, then wolfdog is not for you. You can take a wolfdog on a lift with you, but the wolfdog will not be the lift to the top.

I admit that I have a hard time finding training treats for Ghost - he is not interested.. Mostly because, he is spoilt on his regular raw food. Things like 'doggy treats' don't interest him more than his regular dinner (which is not convenient to train with)... :lol::lol:

Finally, I found the answer - I stopped buying ready made 'dog treats' and simply started to dry my own meats.....

Sashia I will be very happy for same movie with csv working on prey drive.


Rona I dont see nothing unusual but I see problem with training/motivation.

Tina always ate all she was given, but Lorka leaves food when she's not hungry. When I want her to perform well at dog school she gets ... late dinner.;)

Very wise words, Sashia. I agree 100%. :cool3

The most important thing when getting a wolfdog is to keep patient and humble. I really appreciate the approach of our present trainer. She says that teaching the owner how to work on the good relationship with a dog is far more important than training a dog for exams. If the relationship is correct, the exams (whatever one understands under this term) will be easy. 8)

Jing, I'll send you a recipe for training treats I got from Margo. They work like magic ;) 8)

Can i get it too? ;)

Thanks! Look forward to it!! :cool3

Sorry, but it's simply not truth about the BREED itself, it's your own experience and of most of people who never depended on a real guarding dog.
If my dogs had run away of bandits I would be simply not alive right now.
My dogs would bark one or two times in a very different and low way if they want to warn me about something different that's happening, but when they need to enter in action they are completely silence, the most interesting thing is that at pack they work in a very organized and planned way.

:shock:Or your wolfdog have a very atypical character or you did something wrong in its developement.
Wolfdogs have a HUGE prey-drive, much more than common working breeds, the little difference is that they are mature and often too inteligent of what we expect a dog to be, these features turn almost impossible for you to convert prey to play, and that's the point which makes harder to train a wolfdog.

About "dont eat too much", it's very particular of each dog, but if you mean that by "they dont accept food as trait" then perhaps you havent found yet the right trait.

By my experience, all my dogs are very trainable with a piece of cheese. :p

It will all depends on the socialization work that the breeder and principally you will do with the pup.
if you socialize him with all that in a right way he will have no fear at all, but if you fail you will have a harder work to took away this "fear".
Play drive not, if I play a ball to my dogs they will only stand looking at me with a face that could be translate as "what's the point of it? if you wanna it back go and catch it by yourself, im not your slave", well and seems most of CsV are like that.

Well, mine has little interest in food. He doesn't have competition since I don't have other dogs, but he only has the bowl for 15 minutes top, and if he doesn't eat he will see the bowl again the next day, with half its habitual content. And if he does not eat again he will see it the day after, with a quarter of its content, and so on. I also feed him only kibbles (I only use meat during training) an I don’t add anything to make it more tasty if he refuses the food in the bowl, and he knows it. But he often eats just enough to satisfy his hunger and leave the rest, or he won't eat at all if he is not hungry. He’s not even particularly interested in the meat I use during training sessions. Sometimes he accept it, other times he munches on it slowly, somewhat reluctantly, sometimes he just plainly refuses it and spits it out. And I can assure he is pretty healthy, he has always been like that with food.

On the contrary he has a high prey drive on balls and tugs, but I worked a lot on him to get him interested in playing with them since he was a pup. So I often use toys to reward him during training.

jefta, i don't have any videos so no help from me. But my first wolfdog was the first wolfdog ever to do agility (in 1993-4), and she was working purely for treats.

So yours is an exceprion maybe? But I think that if he got competition, and food he likes, and maybe a lot of excercise he would eat differently. For example, i went hiking with a group of wolfdogs, one of them was a female that did not want to eat normally. But when she was on hikes with us, she ate quite well, especially after the first meal, which the other wolfdogs stole pretty soon (we let them to teach her). But when she returned home she stopped eating again. But when her owners moved to a house, she started to eat much better and even got a bit fat... So she was like Lorka maybe, not eating more than necessary.

Frei was raised on barf, so she does not like granules too much. So I used it when she had false pregnancy - she was ravenous, but the granules she did not like too much, and when I switched for low-calories granules instead of barf she stopped eating so much and was able to lose the weight soon without much more exercise.

But still, if I hold a piece of raw meat, she will try to anticipate my commands, just to get the treat as soon as possible. And if I have a peace of venison, her face tells "Please tell me to do something, so i can get the treat!"

But I am quite off topic now i think.

I believe that if a dog has the potential for a high pray/ball drive that you can develop it! My mom has border collie mix that will chase and kill squirrels but doesn't care about toys. I feel that if i had known about dog training when we got her, I could of got her to play with toys. I probably still could but she is 8 years old and it doesn't seem important.

It seems to me this thread has thrown up an interesting cross section
You May get a CSV who is Ball/toy driven
You May get one that is Food driven
You May get one who is Shy
You may get one going to work


...or you may not ;)

I (possibly becasue I am a trainer) see all dogs as trainable, however with some breeds (or even individuals) you have to think outside the box. Finding your dogs 'on' switch is always the first (and sometimes most challenging) part of any training (finding an 'off' switch is another!!).
So I guess it comes down to the kind of trainer you are, how much of a challenge are you up for and how much are you willing to change your training ideas to suit the dog? as opposed to trying to change the dog to suit your ideas?

(this is my overall impression from this thread - so far ;) )

Hahaha well as a trainer I am not set in one way of doing it. I feel that every dog is different and am open to all ideas and different way of training.
I am up for anything. The only thing that I'm not ready for training wise is a dog that is people aggressive. I was bit on the face as a child so I am nervous around super aggressive dogs (dogs properly trained in protection work are NOT aggressive, just for people who don't know ;) ). I will get over that at some point!

but the same with 'hunting' is the same as the ball problem ime.. my wolfdog will only hunt 'seriously' if he thinks he will get it,and with as less energy used as possible.

i find i have to use a mixture of treats and toys depending on what we are trying to achieve.(although food is his primary motive lol)

he is loving agility!

eta...and there is no way my csv would run away from 'intruders'

you cannot guarantee that with any dog let alone a csv :?

I'm talking about an obvious people aggressive dogs. Like previous offenders. Dogs that have already attacked and injured people. If some one comes up to me with a fear aggressive dog I can deal with that, these ones don't "look" for fights(that have seen).

Do you mean taking on an older dog? or a puppy with predisposed genetic traits?

Haha no I thought we were talking about dog training in general. I would want to get a wolfdog puppy to start with.

Yes he's probably an exception. I tried many different food, from cheese to raw meat of various kinds, to fish (which is the food he prefers) but when he is particularly concentrated on something or engaged in some intense activity he would refuse any food, he just brushes it off. Exercise is something he does daily, several hours a day, I don't think that's the problem. But yes, when we are with other dogs he does eat a lot more.

Anyway, in the end I find it difficult and unproductive to use food as a reward during training with him.

In a way I was - but more specifically with regards to the kind of dog you want.

Aggression issues can happen for 2 main reasons, environmental or genetic.

However - exceptions can happen with training. (For example, it is possible to train a dog predisposed to genetic aggression out of it, and is is possibly for a dog with no genetic predisposition to become aggressive through environmental factors.)

Whatever you want - if you are taking on a dog that has been bred for a specific reason or has been developed to do a job, you have to work very carefully through training, you have to bear that in mind when taking on the dog. As Tupac says - there are no guarantees.

That's what I was trying to say. But, if you want your dog to be trainable and be willing to enter tiny/dark spaces, you need not only good picking and persistence and out-of-the-box training technique, you also need luck, and that one no-one can guarantee. And, in my opinion, wolfdogs remember the bad things very well, so a string of bad luck can turn your well-socialized, inquisitive and well-behaved wolfdog pup to a shy and hysteric adolescent that you will need a lot of time and energy to bring back to what you had before. If one is not sure if wolfdog is the breed for them, I think it is better to anticipate bad luck and such, and be pleasantly surprised, than the other way around.

Maybe it is different in your country, but I am really sick of people who say wolfdogs are no good as working breed, just because they tried to get results in the same way as with GSD or, even worse, BS, and of course failed, and instead of trying different approach, they just got rid of the dog. And of people who tell you to get a nice breed if you come to a training with wolfdog. I mean, if you are willing to give away your present dog for a new one, just because this one is not progressing in the way you wanted, than wolfdog is not a breed for you. We have too much of this kind of approach here, so I rather scare a potential owners away. Wolfdogs can be taught to obey different people and to spend time with strangers and whatever, but they are essentially a one-person dogs.

i agree :(

although i would say,anyone with that mindset should not have any breed of dog. :(

your dog should be a companion and friend first and foremost, 'sports' or 'jobs' is an added bonus imo.

I don't like this approach too, but for some people dog is a dog, not a partner. I do not judge them, they have their reasons, but such people should avoid wolfdogs, IMO.

I agree - I am learning about these dogs daily (on here). I do not count the Mutt I live with as I believe he takes after his 'other' side!

The time it takes for training has to be a factor - they do not seem to be a dog for people who want instant gratification (months) with regards to training, you would be more looking at long term (years).

CSVs are still rare over here, and (to my knowledge - although Tupac would know more) there are no pure bred who are actually working.

Maybe it is different where they are 'popular' but I guess the looks baring the passing resemblance to the GSD/BSD people assume the trainability will be the same.
From what I have seen they are intelligent - which should mean they can be trained. They have an athletic conformation which also sets them in good stead. However - their development seems quite different, the maturing time and sensitivities?

When I spoke to my old boss (a guy who was in the Czech Army in the 70's) and told him what I had - his instant response was very dismissive. He pretty much told me it was a waste of time, based on his experiences working with them in the Czech army, but I am guessing they were very much in their infancy at this point, and he was used to dogs who were 'easier'.

I agree!! Sometimes I think people [want to] assume CsVs are just "wolf grey" themed GSDs.. :shock::shock::shock:

Besides.. there aren't two 'looks' to a Vlcak.."more GSD" or "more wolfish". The standard says 'similar to a wolf' - anything else is simply a Vlcak with not much type.

Who believes this?

Oh, I didn't mean you said that!

Simply just that I have seen things like "My CsV is more like its German Shepherd roots and............" mostly in response to appearance.

:lol: - I joke that my guy has GSD days and Wolfy days (but he is a cross)

Haha I really like this. It seems these dog really have a lot if personality!! I love this. I think hat I will probably end up doing is get a nice working gsd pup and then later on get a wolfdog. This dog seems like a lot of dog to deal with so I will get my nice working dog and after he is an adult I will look into getting a wolf dog in a few years so I can have more time with the pup. I am not a one dog person btw. I don't think I could only have one dog:)

I do have another question. I know with other breeds of dogs, they are better off with the opposite sex when living with another dog. For example I have a female gsd, and I get a male wolfdog will they get along better or would it be better to get a female wolfdog?

Wolfdogs might have hierarchy issues with other dogs of the same sex, so opposite sex is preferable, but not required (lot of same sex pair live happily, you just need to take the possible ranking into consideration). For wolfdog, you don't need to be a one-dog person, they love to have larger packs. And it is actually good for teaching a young wolfdog to have a dog teacher, they learn amazingly by watching other dogs. It is especially good for teaching commands that are not their strong point - like fetching or barking on command... But, if a wolfdog is your second dog, you need to remember to socialize it also alone - in the absence of the older dog.

Okay so my gsd is a pretty dominant female. We currently are living at my parents house(I am looking for a house to buy right now) she gets along with my moms dog one is female and one male. The thing about her is that she has NEVER gone looking for a fight and she gets along with other dogs but if a dog runs unto her and jumps all over her she will "pin" them down. It's not violent, she just never gives a warning and does it. She has never hurt a dog doing this. I looks scary to other owners but in my eyes she is just stating her dominance. I take her to the dog park once in a while and she does fine there as long as other dogs are in control of them selfs and walk up to her and do a "normal" greeting.

I was told when I got her that she doesn't really get along with other dominant females. That's why I asked. I would prefer to get a male so that they would likely get along better. Getting a puppy would ofcourse help. I was also told that she had a litter of puppies before and so she has a strong maternal instinct. I have witnessed this my self and it's really cute. Lol

I personally don't see this as "dominance".. just her way of expressing how little she cares for rude introductions/interactions.

None of my four like other dogs jumping all over them.. I gather that MOST dogs wouldn't care for any dog doing that, unless it was mutually initiated and that's their play style.

Then it's a dog for you 8)
They also tend to show their 'demo version' to visitors, rememeber about it when you go to Marcy :lol:

A few days ago Lorka pretended she was a "nice" dog when a couple became interested in the breed. She first licked delicately their extended hands for a welcome, then did 'sit-stay' for over 10 minutes when we were talking, when running unleashed, came to every commad and sat in front of me like a well- trained GSD :p I was impressed how skillfully and mischeviously she advertised the breed ;-):lol:

What?? Is this true?! Lorka, I feel neglected..:(;-)

Jing, you were a special visitor - you received a "full-love" welcome as if you, your sister and Dan were members of our pack ;-) It's much more than just a plain "demo" :lol::lol: