About wolfhybrids
 

Here a picture from some trained wolves who know 20(!) commands and are feed from hand! The wolfscience center in austria proves that it is possible.

It is also possible to train Tigers and whales, but I don't recommend it to 99% of people... and certainly I don't think those are safe domesticated animal to live in regular homes and cities with children and other animals.

Please read this first scientific research about wolfdogs, which a russian Prof. Dr. called Iljin made in the 1920ies. He published it in 1941. The funny thing is that he mentioned a lot of german researchers of wolfdogs in that paper! But it is more genetic and morphologic and almost no behaviour like.

http://www.wolfdogforum.com/forum/vi....php?f=11&t=89

By the way, did you knew that in russian in that time already black wolves were seen? And not only black, but there was an area were blue wolves were! I only know american blue wolfdogs.

Sorry, but if this guy is really serious about that, he proves himself not a very competent person (at least on this topic).
But it may probably only be credited to his lack of experience (at least on this topic).

Hi Yukidomari,
I've been to that institute in Austria.
Marvelous work!
But it's just a matter of training and pure positive reinforcement.
They are no pets or dogs in a wolf's shape at all.
The main difference between dogs (and a CSV is a dog) and wolves is, that you never can force a wolf doing things he or she doesn't want to do.
No matter how tamed the animal is.
And no matter were the animal was born and raised.
Either in the wild or in a sanctuary.

Kind regards,
Michael

That is the difference between Michael and me, I understand these animals and he doesn´t. That is why I am able to work with them and he is not. There are a lot of people who have a lot of knowledge about dogs and the pure breed wolfdogs, but are not able to notice the difference in handling high content and pures. But that´s life, not everybody can all. And I am not a dog trainer and I never want to be.

I never said that a wolf or high content is a pet like a Labrador. I would never say that a Ferrari is a family car either.

In this thread was the question, is it possible to cross in again a wolf for new fresh blood in the breed csw.

The wolves from the wolfscience center are american ones. They are mostly easier to train than europaen ones. But of course you find under the europaen ones wolves who are able to be trained like this.

The way how they train their wolves is a way how many dog trainers train their dogs! I am really wondering why a person like Michael, who claims to be a dog trainer too, seems not to know it. So it is a way how to train! That is his problem, he mostly wants to "force" a dog to a thing. Therefore he is well known not only in csw world but in the meantime also in wildanimal park world, because they had the experience how he does act with his dogs.

There are a lot of dog trainers who train in that way like he does. Ok, it is a way. But it is the wrong way if you want to be successful with wolves and high contents. In the US and Canada are a lot of dog trainers who train wolves and high content wolfdogs without any problem. But of course they are not german shepards!

But listining to 20 commands is much more than the average dog is able to. 5 commands is normal.

I can only say, talk to your animal. If you don´t talk, it will not understand. If it will not understand you, it will never do what you want. And one thing is for sure, they are much more intelligent like a dog and therefore they learn faster - if they want and if you have the bond to them.

Beside herding dogs are almost untrainable, there are some pure dog breeds who I would say are more difficult to train than a wolf or a hc. Remember, I do not talk about a shy wild wolf! To the difference I gave you the link to my website. I know it is very hard to understand. Legions of biologist did researches wolves and did not find out the difference, because for them one wolf was like the other. They seem not to realize that wolves have different characters like dogs and we as human beings do have of course too.

Have a nice weekend.

Christian

I would rather say the main difference between you two is that Michael is able to see the animal in itself instead of projecting his own wishes and emotions on it.

Nobody denied it is possible to cross a wolf into the breed, the question was if it makes sense. And if you are not able to see the difference between an animal no matter if Northamerican Wolf, European Wolf, Orca or Tiger showing learned behaviour in close sight of a treat in it´s normal surrounding, and a working dog that will work concentrated for several hours in no matter what surrounding every day just for the benefit of working for his owner and will do that amidst traffic, people, massive noise over and over again, there is no use into discussing this matter with you at all. Cause what you obviously don´t seem to be able to understand is that though the way an animal (inclusive our own dogs by the way) learns a command per se is the same it has nothing to do with his ability to show this command obediently under all circumstances. And if you think that any real working dog in this world has never in his live a moment in which it will not have to be asked to do his work instead of something it would rather like to do instead you have never seen a working dog.
And by the way the founder of the German Shepherd did understand this fact very, very well, as well as the scientists in Austria.

Ina

Is it so, that working dogs work for the benefit of their owners?

As far I know from professionals, like the police in my country - the chief of them is my friend and expert in front of courts - they teach their dogs with toys for confirmation, well done. A few with food. But the same way they do teach the wolves in wolfscience center. Only in a positive way. Of course there are dogs who do it without any positive treatman only for their owner.

It must be said that the wolfcenter does not look especially for characters of wolves. They only wanted to have american ones. And because they were and are new to the americans they listened to Monty Sloan. The next wolves will be hopefully some "dog" wolves. But that shows and confirms again although they did not choose if their wolves have the abilites to work, they were able to teach them.

I do not know if you understand, but as a dog breeder you look for a breeding male who has the abilites and character to make the puppys better and if your female has a fault, the male should make it better and not worser. So you look for the "special" male. And that must be done of course with the wolves too, when you want to work with them. And it is possible because their are lines in the US who proved to be able to.

It was not the question, if the wolf will be able to work in the city center with loud noise. But even this the founder of the german shepard wrote, that the wild court adult wolves he knew were able to live in the city with all his noise, trains and people after socialization. I will send you the link, now where we have the english version here too. I only knew it from the german version.

So Ina, it is much more possible than most people thought. But that is old stuff from almost 100 years ago and seems to be forgotten.

Thank you for reminding me not to feed the troll, I apologize.

Ina

Hi hi, right smiles Mikael :thumbs

http://books.google.com/books?prints...page&q&f=false

On page 11 in the middle, it starts with:

"It is well known ...."

The founder from the gsd von Stephanitz confirms, yeah that it is well known that it is not a problem to get used "wilddogs" for example wolves to live in the city. By the way the question mark, which is in this american version is in the german version not existing!

That it is objectively possible, to live with wolves, von Stephanitz confirms more than 100 years back. That it from a certain point does not make sense in a pure breed used for specific work is obviously. He claims in his book too, that he did it and found the right "mixture" and that there is no need for other breeders to cross in more wolfblood.

For me is the point that you people understand that a wolfdog F 1 - F 4 is nothing else than a wolfdog and not a unpredicable beast. If you can not read a csw F 5, F 6, you will not be able to read a F 1. But it is nothing special for the engaged dog owner. You all would help the breed csw if you do not talk about things which are simply not true. Because it is always a reason of genes how a wolfdog behaves and not which generation after a wolf he is. And all people I know who owns F 1- F 4 have less problems with these dogs than most people have and had with their csw, especially when they were young. As I wrote already, no wonder having these hyperactiv "high quality" working german shepards in them. Every breeder in the US and Canada knows if you breed a wolf to a german shepard, people will get problems - like most people with csw had and have. So you can look to France, like I already wrote too, there are a lot of csw in shelters. People were badly informed from money making breeders and getting huge problems. And the bad thing is that these animals are well known being aggressiv. It will get over to all csw - hopefully only in france - that it is an agressiv breed.

I will remind you all while comparing the Vlcak with the typical american "wolfhybrid" some important distinguishing points:
1. Most wolfhybrids are misrepresented with their wolfblood percentage.
2. Most real high-percentage wolfhybrids are not kept as ordinary dogs, but have special made enclosures and are not let free running in the park! They need special care and during such circumstances a lot of them behave well. This cases cannot be compared to the ordinary CWD
3. Lots of the male hybrids are castrated to prevent difficult bahavior.
4. All high-percentage wolfhybrids are pulled from their mothers as early as 10 days old and hand-raised and bottled fed by humans to prevent shyness. Not like a dog who is nursed by their mothers. This makes a huge difference.
5. Wolfhybrid enthusiasts tell you about the good examples, but forget to tell you about all the animals put to death because they couldnt be handled or became aggressive.
6. High percentage wolfhybrids have much stronger prey-drive than dogs that can not be suppressed by training. One or two examples of the opposite doesnt change this fact.

I want to emphasize this facts since comparing a well bahaved wolf who is cared for with the special requirements needed to keep such an animal with a Vlcak that is supposed to behave and act like a dog is a little naive!

You don´t need to remind us all - just one of us ....

Fenris, do you are experienced? Do you have contact to owners, breeders, trainers, scientists? Please tell me your name and where you have your knowledge from?

There are in comparison to the number of wolfdogs much more dogs in shelters! Scientific proved that dogs bite the double than wolfdogs!

What you are writing here, is simply gossip! That what all people write who are not in the "business". You better should get contact with the many people who rescue adult wolfdogs from low ove mid to high content without any problems. Watch my website. I got Nuno with 21 month. I did not bottle feed him. He lived for 17 month only in enclosures, the last 12 month, before I got him without any people contact. They threw the food over the fence. He was not leash trained, nothing. And now? Now he is leash trained, he loves every dog, woman and man. Visitors can come with their dogs without any problem in my garden. meeting dogs during walking no problem. And he is not the only one where it is so, I know a lot of these animals who all are the same.

You can look in face book and you tube over 20 clips proving and confirming what I wrote here. Last week a finish film team made a documentary about wolves and they shot a lot of walking leash scence with my animals with a finish politician in the greens. My dogs did not know these people. They were much nicer than every average dog. Sorry, but I can not hear these old phrases from people who know nothing, except repeating things from people who are spreading gossip.

Better you take your time and watch you tube and facebook than you maybe will understand what I am talking about. These old stories are boring!

Apart from your problems with statistics, do you really want Daniel from Lobo Park to state here about Nuno, how you got him and how he lived before. No problem, he will love to tell everybody.
So don´t think twice but better three times about this!
Sorry the rest of you but this is incredulous.

I prefer real life and real experiences to "facebook and youtube" . If virtual reality is your recommendation for learning about this matter it explains everything about your position. And I do have real first hand experience on this matters. That is the reason why I make this statements. The danger lies in the fact that some people might beleive you and buy a highpercentage wolgdog and keep it with their small children and neighbouring cats. Often everything runs smooth with a young wolf, but then surpassing 3 years old things start to change. I would like others on this forum with real experiences (not facebook and youtube) to tell the truth about this matter.

Well Michael und me agree 100%, Daniel from Lobo park will do so, Tanja Askani caring for the wolves in Wildpark Lüneburger Heide will, Erik Zimen did, need some more, no problem?

Ina

Thanks for the support. Btw I didnt know about Nuno and Lobo Park, but here is what is written on Lobo Parks homepage about the wolves in Lobo Park where this Nuna is supposed to come from:

"Almost all wolves that you observe in the Lobo Park were raised with the bottle by the owners. This is necessary, in order to take to the wolf’s instinctive shyness of humans and ensure the possibility for stress-free observation by visitors. Since the wolves are accustomed to humans, they are not disturbed visitors and offer outstanding study possibilities of their social behaviour."

hahahaha, Fenris, come on, tell me your name and your experience. More gossip you spread. I invited you to watch my website, my blog, I invite you to visit me. That is real life! It seems, you never saw real wolfdogs. Sorry, my animals are real life, lol!

Daniel, who? Eichhorns, everytime you have no arguments, you start escaping from the case, we are talking about. Daniel did already wrote in german forum. He went to the police. And what happened? All were laughing about him and it was confirmed that he is a liar. As always, you have real bad information! You better should live in real life.

I have a world wide net about wolfdogs and to the best researchers. Tanja Askani? Is that the woman who got a male csw from you, Eichhorns, and gave him back because she had problems? That woman is not able to talk or read english, so do you really want to tell me, that she knows about the real life in wolf and wolfdog world? Writing this here, Eichhorns, shows me, that you still know nothing. It would be so easy to read my literature list on my website, that you can learn from. It is the biggest list in the world about wolfdogs!

I feel always sad for you, because you live in the past and are not able to develop.

Fenris, it is here a unwritten law, that everybody, who writes here, has to tell his name! I just saw in "about me", that there is written nothing. Oh sorry, there is written country NO = I guess it means Norway. And what do we know from Norway? Wolfdogs are strictly forbidden! Even the csw. Only Saarloos Wolfdogs are allowed.

So I understand more, that you know nothing. Why people like you are discussing here about thinks they do know nothing about? You can have an opinion of course, but please don´t tell me that you have any experience.

But I always like to teach people like you. So please tell me where you live in Norway. I was this year a few times over there. And I can suggest you to book a flight with ryan air to Bremen! I will pick you up so that you can get to know real wolfdogs! And than we can talk again. In germany we say: "Give some butter to the fishes." I really would like you to have you here. I mean it honest. The best ambassadors are my animals!

Tanja never got a wolfdog from us and so never had to give one back, welcome to reality.
She raised several wolves for which she still takes care and surely doesn´t deserve to be called "that woman" being much more competent than you ever will be.http://www.tanja-askani.de/
I did just send Daniel a link to your statements he can state here on his own if he thinks it worth it, after nobody inclusive the police did laugh about him I doubt he cares enough about you.
Get a grip on yourself this have been more than enough lies now.

Yeah, come on, let us hear some more gossip. I guess he will like when I upload some picture of his wolves in horrible conditions because of misstreating! These pictures are already with the police.

I feel very sad for you Eichhorns, because you are not able to discuss in an objective way.

I can only agree with this :)
Could anyone be more exact about the story with the police? It is getting more and more interesting. We all read and feel kind of stupid without knowing what are yoy exactly talking about :roll:

You better ask Eichhorns, why they start with a topic which is not in here. Because they do not understand, that my american wolfdog is so nice to everybody and everyone can see in facebook about 20 clips from him being with other dogs, people, even children. It does not confirm that gossip they and fenris are spreading. Over years I am following this gossip. First I only had two csw than I had one and now two american wolfdogs and know 30 personally. And none of these animals confirms what Eichhorns and Fenris are writing here. I put in links from the founder of german shepard who confirms too, that there were around 100 years ago in germany people who did live with wolves.

But that is not the point, I can only repeat, they are not beasts and they are not dangerous. They are more calm than dogs and some are timid, but some are very open and friendly. And I do know 8 year old animals. I am not talking about young ones. I am talking about true mature none neutered adult wolfdogs. Of course they are not for everyone - like herding dogs, some gsd, some Rottweiler....; like a Ferrari is no family car. It is very simple.

And so I only say, better all are working together and cross offcially new wolfblood in the csw, when people think that there will be healthy problems. If not, there is no need. I do not care. But I can not understand when people are crying for bad planned litters and lack of genetic variablity. So than do something. Of course there are already bred in wolves. But in other recognized breeds there are bred in dogs who are not the ones who are written in pedigree. This fci world is odd...

I worked with wolves for 2 years in college - mostly with pups, but also got to see the experienced handlers with the adults in an educational park. They are not dogs. I have had many experiences with "American" wolfdogs. They are more difficult than CSVs - not always aggressive, but some are, and as stated above, even if not aggressive, most high contents have high prey drive - not unlike many dog breeds, but in combination with the impossibility to train like a dog, it's where danger comes in for unfamiliar people, especially those who don't have good judgement (like small kids). So okay, they are their own entity, I feel neutral to this in some ways. A big problem for me living in the US is that many wolfdogs are bred illegally - frequently in very cramped confinement, so the authorities don't detect them. They are bred only for profit and as hobby/pets, since they have no kind of working purpose. There is no standard to aim for with breeding. I seriously doubt there are any high contents that have earned obedience or working titles. I currently have a Czech bred GSD staying with me...he is hard, dominant, drivey, and with very high prey drive - difficult to handle if you aren't experienced. He is much more similar to my CSV than the grey wolves were. But he is fine as a pet with the right family - he understands people, even with no food to work for. He can live indoors, and understands things such as voice inflection. Here are some experiences of people who spend a lot of time with all kinds of American wolfdogs - but a few of the many rescues here. Notice, they say "full/waiting list". Ordinary shelters/rescues are often obliged by law or policy to euthanize wolfdogs, and it's always the case if they bite someone. It's a sad situation here...:oops:

http://www.nevercrywolfrescue.com/media.asp
http://www.texasblessings.com/WOLF_DOG_RESCUE.html
http://www.wharwolves.org/adoptionreality.htm

In the US you have 78 Millio dogs. 4,5 Mill are in rescue/shelters. You have around 700.000 wolfdogs. But only around 20.000 are in rescue. If here is a mathematic, please give us the percentage. But over the thumb 6 % from dogs are in rescue, but only around 2,7 % wolfdogs are in shelter: the half number.

As I wrote, wolfdogs are not for everyone and of course they are no working breed. But you are wrong when you do think that it is not possible. Do you read wolfdogs magazine? Then you maybe know Ann Dresselhaus. She got 14 titles in akc companion exam and even Schutzhund with wolfdogs. Ann is a friend of mine. She bred Noomis relatives.

But please read here in google translated version from what I wrote about wolfdogs http://translate.google.com/translat...de&sl=de&tl=en

Have a look at the pictures. For example Maya, 8 years, F 1 90%.

And please look at the side from wolf and wolfdog rescue near LA in California http://www.wolfconnection.org/ from my friends Teo and Renee. Watch what they do with their animals.

And of course, it is not enough to have wolves to tell, that someone has knowledge, like Eichhorns wants to make believe. We have in germany 120 zoos and wildparks with wolves. And from these all around 100 have problems with their animals because they do have the wrong packs and the animals fight to each other - til death! Lack of knowledge. And even Tanja Askani lost a grey wolf after fighting. So if someone has a Ferrari in the garage, that does not mean that he is racing driver.

You have to have practical knowledge and of course theoretical.

By the way the same is valid in lobopark. I was there 3 times in 3 years. And everytime I was there, they do only have young wolves... And everybody knows that wolves in captivity get very old. I know 19, 17 years old wolves. So better not to ask to deep in the matter of these wolfpark. It is as always, Eichorns are sitting in a glace house and throwing with stones.

I think maybe there are no statistics on the number of wolfdogs that are not given to rescues...as I said before, normal dog/cat shelters accept wolfdogs, but they do not adopt them to new homes. They are euthanized. It's the case over and over in my local shelter. Most owners don't relinquish their pets as wolfdogs, they call them "husky mixes" or "malamute mixes", since they know with 100% certainty what will happen if they tell the truth. But most of the time, the shelters make their own determination. I'm curious how they come to the statistics anyways? :cry:

In my time with wolves, none died or anything bad, nor in the past 9 years since I left. The trainers were licensed, and everything was very well maintained in accordance with federal regulations. They educate thousands of people daily about wolves in public demonstrations. They also participate in national initiatives for wolf preservation. The wolves lived better than many people. 8)
http://www.buschgardens.com/Bgw/Expl...ls.aspx?id=426

It's cool about your friend, and I don't necessarily have a fight with American wolfdog owners. But, I try to see the whole reality, and we see a lot of it here - of course to everything there are exceptions - one only has to look at the polar bear video in the other thread to see that.:)

I am curious how your friend was able to get AKC titles, since it's forbidden to exhibit wolf mixes in any AKC event or test?
Here is the form for dogs which are not registered breeds (mixed breeds) to register for events:
https://www.akc.org/mixedbreeds/listing/index.cfm

P.S - what happens to dogs here is horrible to with regards to the statistics. Many (most?) Americans have no business to own dogs, let alone a wolfdog (including CSV!). Our culture is pathetic about the care of animals compared to many European cultures. Animals are a commodity here. Unfortunately, our kennel clubs make money from this, so they keep very loose regulations - for care, health, or temperament - the regulations are rarely involved, except for in very, very bad cases...

There is no statistic how many wolfdogs are in shelters. But there are not so many shelters and they are in contact with each other and I am in contact with some of them. Very easy, if you use internet and are able to talk to people, you get the information. The total number of wolfdogs is written in Dave Mech´s book from 2003, and I got the number from the scientist Prof. Dr. Ray Pierotti and from the biggest breeders. So I made a middle number. And as I wrote in facebook are in the meantime hundreds wof people having wolfdogs and rescue shelters and breeders. And I am in contact with all. It is a far bigger community like the csw. Of course having only about 5.000 csw world wide it is nothing to compare to 700.000 american wolfdogs.

And I am of course in very good contact to the scandinavian wolfdog owners. Most live in Finland.

Ann created her own breed the "Alaskan Noble Companion Dogs". It is very simple. She is trainer too and takes from other people the exam. She is very experienced. But that you can read on my website I put the link here in.

Buschgardens, I know, that are animals from Lorraine. The wolf/wolfdog world is very small. And because of my animals and I am one of a handfull people who imported an animal from the north america, write for the wolfdogs magazine, have a good website, have the contact to the most important wolf researchers like Dave, Bob, Ray and Greg it makes an all in all for me and people do know me. And it does not often happen that Monty Sloan visit private persons. But he did with me, we are friends.

And I am friend too with Mark Rowlands "The Philosopher and the Wolf". So I have experience not only with my own animals, but I get all important information first hand! And so I am wondering that a person like Fenris, who even does not have a csw means to know about the wolfdog world.

"CsV that is alive today is about 7500 (2009-01-01)"

And as I know "American Wolfdog" is not a breed but a way of breeding, and it´s therefor very hard (or impossible) to say they are like this or that...

Very best regards / Mikael

PS, I like all Wolfdogs, but not all owners and breeders. DS

And whit that I do not mean you ;)

I talked with Margo in may in germany about the overall number and we both thought about around 5.000. Of course it could be some more.

I am not against wolfdogs or wolfhybrids, but am alarmed to "blow the whistle" when some gives the impression that highpercentage or even pure wolves are easier to to keep than a regular CWD. Wolves and high %-age wolfdogs can be dangerous in the hand of the lay-man and the ignorant and every experienced wolf behaviorist or wolf scientist or wolfdog breeder will agree. I hope I misunderstand the self-acclaimed specialist, but to prevent other without experience who has the desire for a highpercentage wolfdog or a desire to mix more wolfblood into the CWD I feel an obligation to react to her claims.

Hanninadias close friend who makes special private visit to her, the photographer Monty Sloans has published this about the wolfdog:
"Wolves and high-content wolf-hybrids should never be regarded as pets"
See his whole article here:http://www.wolfpark.org/Images/Educa...Guidelines.pdf
W However , of the animals that I`ve seen or heard of that are good with children, most are low in content or young". See this whole article here: http://www.wolfpark.org/Images/Educa...dsChildren.pdf
I would also recommend Erik Klingenhammer , the mentor wolf behaviorist from WolfPark, article on wolfhybrids: http://www.wolfpark.org/Images/Educa...ionHybrids.pdf

Ann Dresselhouse dogs, the Noble Alaskan Companion Dogs, are accordinig to herself a mix between at least 6 dog breeds. Sighthounds, collies, shepherds, white siberian huskies &.c. This amalgam of dogbreeds is very specially developed for their trainablility although wolflike in appearance. Maybe this explains Hanninadians experience with her dogs.

I did not say that wolves and high content are pets. You remember, a Ferrari is not a family car?! But csw are too no pets. Because of the gsd in them they are much more hyperactiv and aggressiv than hc and wolves are! I can experience everyday here with visit from dogpeople with their dogs. With my american ones it is no problem, with the csw it is and it is with all csw! I guess you do not have any experience with csw too living in Norway. And my csw are very friendly - to people, you can see this in the video when you click the pic in the tv studio. I can take them in a bar with loud music and hundreds of people walking over them.

I have no experience with Ann her dogs. Noomi is family, yes. I have experience with a lot of different lines because I go to the meetings and visit the owners. Ann is for over 20 years in business. I talk only about her wolflike dogs. I will get to know them next year, because she will get a pup from me and I one from her.

Monty is only in wolf business. That paper is over 10 years old. He does not know the breeders, only the old ones. Monty had a wolfdog for his own, but a low content. He does send all people who have problems to Nicole Wilde - Living with wolfdogs from A - Z. So do not believe everything you read or see in tv. Than you must believe that the csw in germany are beasts after all what was shown this year!

Again, please come down to germany, I invite you. I would be very happy, if you would meet my animals and make your own picture! You are welcome.

Christian

Thank you Hannidiana for inviting me. I trust you have good intentions. But I will wait a few years until your dogs have become a little older and you have collected some more experience with wolfdogs.

Your friend Monty Sloans article is maybe a few years old, but he still has the same opinion. Just make a phonecall to him and ask him. And now you bring up Nicole Wilde as a more experienced person. Well, Nicole Wilde has exactly the same opinion as I have. This is what Nicole Wilde writes:
"Welcome to the reality of having wolfdogs. Again, these are not dogs, and no one without specialized knowledge of their behavior and needs should be working with them, period." And more from Nicole Wilde: "Wolves as a species are afraid of humans. Wolfdogs, especially the higher-content individuals (who generally look and act wolfier than dogs) tend to be on the shy, skittish side. They have special needs as far as early socialization if they are to be workable “pets” and live in the world rather than spending their lives in an enclosure. They can be very sensitive and require an extremely gentle approach in training. One false move and the bond of trust between wolfdog and owner can be broken forever. Behavior modification with wolfdogs requires plenty of patience, and one should never push these animals over threshold."
So you must understand that you cannot compare this animals to normal dogs. It is dangerous. Its lots of ignorant people out there whom will beleive you and buy themselves a wolfhybrid and raise them as normal dogs. Also CWD owners who beleive that their experiences with a CWD makes them competent to own a wolf or cross their wolfdog with a pure wolf and sell the offspring. You like to compare them to a Ferrari automobile. OK - do that, but remember that if you drive your Ferrari at 230 km/h on the local road in the neighbourhood and survived is partly driving skills, but mostly pure luck. And understand how stupid it is to recommend the public to drive 240 km/h on the local roads because you did it yourself and survived.

I only judge what I personlly see and live with. Of course there are enough people who do not inform well. The Ferrari example is simply, no one drives with a Ferrari on a gravle road. The 240 km/h is in german normal. On our highways you are on most parts allowed to drive as fast you want. The people do not die on these highways but in the cities mostly.

Wolf- and Wolfdog rescuers are getting almost only in contact and touch with people who have problems with their animals. Like in germany the normal dog shelters get in touch with people who have problems with their dogs and gave them away. But they do not get in touch with the majority of people who do not have problems. I put in here the link to the wolfconnection, you can easyly watch the pics where they are hiking with their high content wolfdogs, leash trained dogs and even with kids. Monty and Nicole know for example Mace Loftus from the wolf crossing and know very well that they do have no problems for over 20 years. Monty of course knows that I do have no problems as well. Noomi did have already two heats, she adult and adult. And guess what with every heat she is more friendly to me and becomes more open to people.

The problem is people like you read this and think oh wow, all wolfdogs and owners are like this. But the truth I told here, only 20.000 = 2,7 % in shelter! This is the truth. So please do not turn around the facts. And again, I have experience with 8 year dogs, I went with them to McDonalds met small dogs and children without any problem.

Better you come now and than in 2 years again, so you can make a good comparison. That is always funny, people like you who are only knowledge because of reading, will not come. All these open people come and will be convinced immediately.

You mentioned a lot of dog breeds in Ann her wolfdogs. Where did you have it from? Here is a pic from Noomi´s aunts and grandma. Do you really think that there are all these dogs in you mentioned?

Yuko you mentioned that a lot of people have highly working gsd in their families. But do you know that for example in germany 80% of biting from dogs to people happens in their own family? So it says nothing that there are gsd in families because 80% in germany of all bitings happen in these families.

coming to the comparison with cars and what Monty and Nicole wrote over 10 years ago. People are able to develop. 20 years ago we drove with a VW Beetle. And today in germany you do not found cars which are not able to drive 190 - 200 km/h. So things develop.

And nowadays the good breeders take care who will get a wolfdog. But of course there are always bad ones who do not select.

When you are from Norway, you maybe know the wolfdogs from Finland. In the moment there are mostly F 2 45%. They are so cool and calm even the young ones. I met several a month ago in Helsinki. You would never believe that they are F 2. They are offspring of Alaskan Tundra male wolf Boogie and Siberian Husky working line female Blondy.

This doesn't make sense because 80% of bites from family dogs doesn't mean all 80% is from German Shepherd Dog as not 100% of German families keep GSDs..

Also, nobody reports dog bites from small dogs, everyone knows that bite statistics aren't accurate due to reporting rates and trends.

I know animals at Busch Gardens are from Deborah Warrick and Mace Loftus has two there also. But i was unaware of Lorraine having any there.

For those of you who are in facebook can now see two short video clips from Wolfscience Center which I took last week during my three day stay there. Please look under my profile or wolfdogs magazine.

Christian Berge