Hasn't Mr. Winder ever heard the expression 'two wrongs don't make a right'? :|

This is since a long time for everybody to find on the Wolfdog-Healthinfo site :)

Why all the bitching, anybody in britain want to meet up to organise a strtegy to get the CSV recognised by the kennel club

Well there is the facebook page but its always pretty quiet on there!

Accidentaly I got accross that kennel webpage, (or a similar one ?) I found some sections really humorous:
:shock: :lol::lol:

Brilliant idea.

Taz

Yes, it's really good to see that they know the history of the breed that they are bastardising... If it is the one I think you mean, he does not even know who the dam of one of his breeding bitches is - class breeder :?

Which FB page is that Murph? The only one I could find has died a death due to the infighting of the breeders... Maybe a new one needs to be started up to get a database of pure CsV's in the UK started?

I wish the best of luck in getting CsV recognized in the UK. According to Hedeon's post on page 4 regarding recognition, the KC rules states the following info must be included:

- Names & addresses of UK owners/importers
- Total number of dogs of the breed in the UK
[ideally at least 20, preferably unrelated]
- Copies of pedigrees of UK dogs – at least 3 generations
- Proposed breeding plan and indication of available gene pool

Hopefully there will be some breeders in the future who can fulfill point 4, because surely a proposed breeding plan acceptable by the KC can not include cross breeding or mixing.

Excellent idea!

Nice idea, but why on FB? Maybe here it is possible to name at least the dogs, then the breeding plan could be made by experienced CsW breeders together?

Well, I fully agree. One person is not able to do it, owners need to unite and cooperate to get CSV recognized. I am no owner yet. Hope that I will become soon. But I am willing to help any way I can.
And we will also need help of more experienced people from this forum as I dont completely understand what KC mean by "Proposed breeding plan" and "Gene pool".

By FB you probably meant this group:
https://www.facebook.com/group.php?g...3469887&ref=ts

I fully agree Vaiva, but maybe FB is less daunting at first to those in the UK (I have had many comments about anti-UK feelings on here - I personally don't see it, the comments are directed at individuals who, imo, deserve it not at UK owners). Once they have made contact via FB, they can be directed onto here. Another issue UK owners have is the way the new database describes their dogs as ''(possibly) a wolfdog from a non-FCI kennel'' - I'm sure there is a more diplomatic way to put it :) After all, it isn't their fault that the KC doesn't recognise the breed...

We all need to help the core of true CsV lovers to thrive in the UK - that way the existing 'breeders' with bad practices will be shamed and (hopefully) find themselves out of business.

I don't think it is insulting. It just says what it is, dog not registered with FCI. Which is true. I am sure that most of those dogs are pure CSV, but some are not. When they get registered with KC they will be allowed for breeding. How to separate them?

I would be very careful joining the above group the admin one named sandra curry is a main promoter of crossing czech and she has just breed czech with german shepard and is selling these as 'anglo wolfdogs' and many on this site are actually not breeding pure they are mixing them!! In my opinion this is truely shocking and the more I look the more shocking it is...

This is her website and links to all the other ones!!

http://www.sansorrella.com/breed%20information.htm

I see you are a member and post on here? same as the breeder that is mentioned throughout this link

I agree it would be great to find a like minded bunch in the uk that are not mixing this breed .... I THINK from what little i've seen its going to be hard to find breeders who dont dabble in mixing this breed in the UK...as each and everyone i've seen mix breed......along side 'pure breed'...hmmm lots of dabbling going on!!

You need to look at this anglo wolfdog site!!!!!!!!

sorry to those who dont like dots and dashes i was thinking allowed via my keys again...old age! forgiveness is required!

I'm sure there are many in the UK who would like to keep the Czech pure. Yes, hybrid vigour is a good goal in general but not to the detriment of the breed i.e. temperament and behaviour. Please don't tar all in the UK with the same brush - there is a future for the breed here and now that the quarantine laws have been amended, things will change!

Perhaps rather than trying to find the needle in the haystack wich is a breeder that doesn't mix, enthusiasts may be better off starting over again. Importing new bloodlines etc, not relying on the breeders here, even if they own a dog from one. I don't think the kc will take any application seriously, if those applying include people who actively pointlessly cross breed.
Yo

I too maynot own a csv yet, (though hope to be able to some day) but I'm prepared to help in anyway I can, to insure the breed gets the fresh start it deserves here.

Ref the anglo wulfdog breeder;

So you can see the sires a gsd cross to then? She wasn't happy when I mentioned it, she was sold him as a tamaskan,which annoyed the genuine tamaskan breeders, as he isn't and looks nothing like one. I genuinely thought she knew as well, after all, I recall the litter he came from had a pup in it, that was marked exactly like a black/silver grey gsd puppy...I've seen plenty of tamaskan puppy pics and not one has ever looked anything like that. But then, the parents of him were imported from a puppy mill in NC, so god only knows what they really were a mix of.

She swore she wouldn't use her csv to create mixes too and got all annoyed when I asked why...Why? she knew my opinion of those who mix their csvs, I wasn't going to make an exception for her.

Incase you didn't realise, I'm a member on her forum, though I've not posted since my temp ban ended. The above situation being the cause of that.


Taz

I am curious if the cross-breeders cite "hybrid vigor" as the reason for their mixing?

Mijke posted a link to all the known CsV health issues - if a person is mixing with CsVs, they should be testing for all the diseases CsVs are known to carry too.

Can they post the results the health testing they have done on the mixed dogs, so to say objectively that such breeding is actually making the dogs healthier? :?

:cool3 Agree and if any support needed, I'm sure there are many breeders and owners (including myself) who will try to help.

My advice to British solid owners and potential breeders who want to honestly develop the breed in the UK: go to CSV summer camps, meetings, bonitations with or without your dog and let yourself known to European vlcak community. Meet other owners and breeders, watch the dogs, compare, learn how they're trained and socialized, what problems are faced when raising them, etc. Not to mention that at such events you'll have the chance to learn things which are never put on-line. Lots of people speak English now, so there is no language barrier and cheap airlines are really conveniant for such purposes, especially that the events are announced so far ahead. Alternatively a few breed fans might share petrol costs and visit a couple of kennels on their way.... It often happens that wolfdog owners put up other wolfdog owners/lovers or help them find conveniant accommodation ;-) so the expenses do not necessarily have to be high, but the non-material gains IMO are huge.

This is exactly how Hedeon started his journey towards his own CSV and I think he does not regret it. 8)