Wolfdog.org forum - DM Testresults

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Quote:

Originally Posted by elf (Bericht 347928)

This is very likely what's happening, this is the case for many many other diseases or gen traits, i.e. genetic regulatory networks expressivity pattern.

As plausible, there are several research groups are studying the thing that does not take any responsibility to make assumptions like that. Scientifically still speaking about a " Unkonow trigger" If i'm well informed, the DNA of both brothers are at one of these research bodies, leave to speculate where it is due. Speculating on these assumptions is the best ground where they sprout the witch-hunts.

We are going to have our girl tested for DM soon - are there other tests we should consider at the same time (one trip to to the vet to take blood for sending to Laboklin is better than several). What is ED? Are there known eye problems PRA/PLL?

You need blood for DM and Dwarfism and please also to send for the databank in Bern.
ED is Ellbowdisplasia, that is an x-ray to take when you x-ray for HD.
There are more genetic eye diseases than PRA, normally the specialists (and it should be done by a specialist) check for all of them at once but this should be done in regular terms, we have to do it on a yearly basis in Germany.

Regards
Ina

Thanks Ina.

We are based in Bulgaria so it may be difficult to find somewhere to do the regular eye checks you describe, but I will look into it. The ED scan will be done soon and I intend to send blood to Utrecht to scan for Dwarfism. I was thinking of sending extra blood to Laboklin for DNA storage - is this the same or different to the databank in Bern (if different, please can you let me have the details so that I can organise this too).

Laboklin might also be able to do the dwarfism test, as it is the same test as for German Shepherds. Laboklin stores 2 ml of blood that stays in your property. Bern is doing research on DM and will start a research on our breed as soon as there are enough samples. They store 5ml and more (as much as you send in) that are the property of Bern but will only be used for this project and they do also send blood to other labs if you ask for it. As the storage in Bern is for free I would ask you to send blood to them as well. The storage is cost free.
Sonja Bognarova will publish everything the next days (she promised!). If you need the forms earlier just send me a mail I will send you the forms.

I'll ask Laboklin about the Dwarfism test but I thought I had read that they sent the samples to Utrecht. I will certainly send blood to Bern (maybe instead of Laboklin since they want 33 Euros to store the sample - I'd rather spend that on a test than just for storage...)

Idefix vom wengerhof

DM N/N

Quote:

Originally Posted by z Peronówki (Bericht 347841)

I could tell you the names of several DM/DM dogs which are over 10 years old (one is even 14 years old) and still walk good (compared to their age)... Unfortunately the owners do not agree...

...

Thank you for your answer. With not so many dogs tested yet, were these old dogs tested for a specific reason, like a 'suspicious' line or are the owners responsible and think testing sensible? Too bad they don't want to make the names known, because imho knowing that indeed dogs do not get ill is important information!

I would urge those owners to at least submit blood or tissue samples and a pedigree - if not now, perhaps when the dogs die... it would be invaluable for research to know what "triggers" disease symptoms... it would, in theory, save other dogs from suffering...

Quote:

Originally Posted by z Peronówki (Bericht 347841)

I could tell you the names of several DM/DM dogs which are over 10 years old (one is even 14 years old) and still walk good (compared to their age)... Unfortunately the owners do not agree...
What I can do - I will travel to visit some of them in May. I can try to take some videos of them (the videos will not show the heads but the movement)...

And it is no wonder - Wolfdogs are different in this case...
Just look - DM is not a NEW illness. It has been in the "blood" of your dogs since founding of the breed because it came from German Shepherds... The DM tests are avaible for a long time... Vets know this illness very well - many GSDs suffer from it...
Why for many years there was not even one case of person who wrote about such problems by his/her dog? Why nobody wrote that Wolfdogs can have DM?

The answer is simply: because even if there are pretty many CzWs which are "carriers" and "affected" only VERY small amount of DM/DM dogs show serious symptoms... In the 12 years I saw hundreds of Wolfdogs. But not even one which had such problems as Forrest.
Sure that DM appears by CzWs too - but it appears when the dogs are already old (8+). And the symtoms are not so good visible... It is why the illness was "hidden" for so many years: many people, even if they saw a DM/DM dog though (because of the age of the dogs) that they walk "different" because of their age... Nobody though it can be symtom of any other "illess" than the most known: old age....

Falco is not CARRIER (N/DM). HE is AFFECTED dog (DM). Carriers do not get ill...

But here you forgot one thing - Falco is brother of Forrest (the dog from the video). Both are DM/DM, both get ill in the (pretty) early age and by both dogs the illness develop very fast...

It doesn't mean it apply for all other "affected" dogs... It means only that exactly by this "family" there must be something in the genes what "activate" the illness... And exactly all breeding dogs from this line must be tested.
It doesn't mean other dogs do not need to be tested. It means only that by the dogs with similar ancestors a DM test is a must...

I keep thinking about your post, and sorry but can shake the feeling you and i are getting smoke blown upo our ....

suddenly an 8 yr old twd is an old dog, people have known about it long, but you've never seen one, and the one, one of the few mentioned in public, is a different strain in your opinion, one that does show early. It is so unclear to me why people would test their dog to get the dm/dm result, a dog long beyond breeding age, and than keep those results under cover, even when these results would show that dm/dm dogs do indeed not have to get ill before the age of say 10.
I have only had Saarloos for 11 yrs, and have heard of both SWH and TWD with symptoms that could have been DM. (could have been, because first time i heard of it, little information was found, and the dna test is only recent)
So sorry, still don't by dogs getting old all healthy with this disease

Hello Nanouk,

Are you looking for examples of just wolf-dog DM affected?

Our Doberman is A/A for DM, he is almost 13 years old on January 31st.

He has no problems.

A Doberman is of course not a wolfdog but DM is the same genetic marker test.

I got today a nice information
Jasna Zlata Palz N/N for DM.
...I will never thank enough Ina and Michael for this Diamond!!

As for my Oliver, it is very probable that he is a Carrier like his sister, because
Ariminnum Upstream is N/N too.

At least I am sure that none of his sons are DM/DM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z Peronówki (Bericht 347841)

It doesn't mean it apply for all other "affected" dogs... It means only that exactly by this "family" there must be something in the genes what "activate" the illness... And exactly all breeding dogs from this line must be tested.
It doesn't mean other dogs do not need to be tested. It means only that by the dogs with similar ancestors a DM test is a must...

Quote 100%, the more dogs possible tested and with results, the better.
Studying the dogs who are DM/DM but also Ill should be a must.

Résultats officiels de Laboklin :

Ckoo Mah Ook de la Mollynière de Lo'Scale : N /DM
Di'Sun Shy Inn de la Mollynière de Lo'Scale : N/N

Je suis en attente des résultats des 3 chiots, issus de ce mariage ....que je communiquerai également quels qu'ils soient ...

J'ai malheureusement fait les tests de DM, des parents, après la naissance des chiots ....:x
Histoire à suivre

Anechka du Clos des Guerriers

Result: Génotype N/N ( Free )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorry - MLS (Bericht 349959)

Résultats officiels de Laboklin :
Je suis en attente des résultats des 3 chiots, issus de ce mariage ....que je communiquerai également quels qu'ils soient ...

Les 3 chiots issus de cette portée sont N /DM (comme leur père)

2 nouveaux chiens, vont être testés à la fin de ce mois ....identité et résultats seront communiqués

Art z Viktoriinej zahrady

Degenerative Myelopathy - PCR
Genotype N/N (sain)

Great News!! Great for Art! (I know two of his children: Penelope and Vladimir Arimminum, and I just love them :D)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enid Black (Bericht 353468)

Great News!! Great for Art! (I know two of his children: Penelope and Vladimir Arimminum, and I just love them :D)

Oui ça fait plaisir. Je les adore aussi.

Amber Wolf z Peronówki - N/N