Thank you, tony :):) ... especially for the dog on the left. I thought there´s only one with this "trademark" 8)

Hach... you mean the right angle carried half above the back is a registred Trademark??? Of whom? :lol: Looks funny....

@elf thanks for digging out these pics. I totally agree that I need to look at wolves more often to remember my dog being just that: a dog ;-)

What I'm saying is that genes are always combining and changing into something new with every generation. With GSDs being so different to wolves genetically (in comparison with other breeds) it only makes sense that CsVs might fall farther away than some other breeds, despite the difference in recent genetic addition. The more people breed selectively and move the breed towards a cohesive standard, the more the genes are going to mutate into their own general group, neither wolf nor GSD. If you look at the breeds closer to wolves genetically vs. the breeds farther away, the differences aren't in when the last wolves were actually introduced, it's in how much "interference" humans give vs. nature. The breeds near the top of the list developed mainly without help, where the breeds near the bottom are more biddable and more "touched" by humans. THIS is why I'm curious where the CsV stands, it's quite possible the dogs are further from wolves than people want to admit.

Supposedly, one of the founding ancestors of the GSD (grandparent of Horand) was a WOLF, so I am not quite sure about the genetic "study" that says GSD are the breed "furthest away" from the wolf... I would say they are one of the ones that, aside from CsV and Saarloos, have the closest traceable link - most recent ancestry to the wolf. And there are also whispers of wolves being brought into the GSD early on in it's development, not to mention the whispers about the wolf blood in the Czechoslovakian strain of GSDs - word is that the Pohranicni Straze breeders kept some of the wolf-dog crosses in their GSD breeding program, which may be what accounts for the morphoogical and behavioral differences between the Czech GSDs and other lines...
Also I just wanted to say that Bezinka really looks (to me) like our Eastern Coyote, as opposed to the North American wolf. She is gorgeous. I, personally, have always had an admiration for coyotes due to their intelligence, resourcefulness and adaptability. Heck, they EASILY live in our urban areas - from downtown Chicago to NYC's Central Park! Whereas wolves need specific habitats in which to live... Clever Coyote, the Trickster, seems to be able to live right alongside us here and not get noticed much...

Vicky, I am sorry to say but I can not follow your arguments. It make no sense having a wolf in 6. generation in front of my for example Myla Crying Wolf and you try to say that she is far away from wolf? Did you ever tell that in the US to the people who made beast out of hybrids which they definetly not are? Your arguments would be the same.

But what is much more important is, that in 2007 in germany (poland) they made genetic studies, at the place where they researched the genes from germanies wolves, with the genetic material from csw and saarloos. And what can I tell you, the result was, that csw are wolf mixes!

From logical point of view your ideas can not match.

Bob Wayne even find out that under 85 pure breed dogs there are ancient breeds like Basenji, Saluki, Akita, Malamute, Siberian Husky, ChowChow and a few others there is wolf in them! He calls ancient breeds the ones who are older than 500 years. So if you notice that you can imagine that they will find a lot of wolf in the breed like csw.

Christian

;)

More Besinka pics, beautiful:

http://alissea.rajce.idnes.cz/Arya%2Csmecka_a_vlk/

http://alissea.rajce.idnes.cz/csv_Ar...ka_a_borderak/

http://alissea.rajce.idnes.cz/Arya,_..._vlcice/#album

Ouuuff ... thanks, tony ;):)

I think you are right: mutara seems to be only the visible part of the iceberg.

Did he wrote this - iceberg - here in the thread?

There is no iceberg, only a small mountain like in the northern part of germany where there are no mountains.:shock:

Hi everybody !

I often read some other country forums on WD, but i'm only active on the french forum. But this time i'm comming out of the shadows (it's a translation of a french expression, don't know if you understand it :) ).

Besinka is absolutely beautiful and i have just discovered those pictures.
When i see pictures it's seems that in it's head it's more a dog than a wolf (i might be wrong... but that's what pictures inspires me) and this is the first time i see a wolf so close to human and dog (except some wolves in US).
Is there somewhere i can learn more about Besinka and it's story ?
A blog, a website, whatever...

I love wolves, i love wolfdogs, (yeah i'm sure i'm not the only one here ^^) and... i'm really curious ! :roll:

Thanks ;)

A wolf with a head of a dog???? Besi is a two year old carpathian wolf. There is no website to see. Sometimes she is in the czech republic in summer camps. But you do not seem to know how a wolf look...

There are lots of wolves who walk with people!

Christian

Hi !
This is not what i said !

I said she seems to be more a dog than a wolf IN her head.
I think this is a problem of translation... What i mean is when i see pictures and how she intreacts with human and with other dogs i don't see the wild side of a wolf, but more the "dog side".
This is my feeling after seeing her on some pictures, and as i said, i might be wrong. That's why i wanted to know if there were more informations about Besinka... just curious. That's it

Hope it's more clear now :?

US wolves yes, but this is the first time i see an european wolf like this with people and dogs (one more time: only based on some pictures i have seen)

Ok sorry, I missunderstood.

We had in germany legendary Inge, she died in 1998 with 14 years, she was in lots of movies and documentary stuff. Sure it is true these animals are exceptions. In the US are more of these animals, every wolf rescue station has such wolves. Because american wolves are more tame.

I met Besi one year ago with two of my puppies csw 4 month old, Besi was 11 month old and they played together. She is fantastic. She is used to people other dogs. But we will see if she will stay so, when she matured and becomes adult wolvin. Let us cross fingers. She is very well socialized by her owner. They are very experiened people in wolfdogs and wolves.

Christian

Fine to meet you here, r0d :)

I don´t think you´ll find a blog or something else. People who own such animals normally stay in the shadow :rock_3

Hahaha, Angie that is absolutely not true!!! These people live in the outskirts of Prague in a Reihenhaus, do you can translate please, and everybody knows that they have wolves and csws. And as I wrote Besi is many times in summercamps. And Besi is walking in the streets where the people live. These people have the allowance to have wolves, all people and authorities know it.

By the way, Angie are you going on thursday to the worlddogshow or on friday to the denish clubshow? I am looking for someone who can hold Tala during I show Myla... hehehe. But only in the clubshow. For the worlddogshow I was too late.... hmmm

Good night
Christian

Hahaha, hanni. I spoke about a "blog or something else", didn´t I?

Thought you wanna eat among wolves tomorrow. It´s time to prepare yourself.

Thank you for your answers, both of you !

I was wondering if there was a blog or website, because when i saw these pictures, i thought "Besinka doesn't seems to be top secret so what's her story ?".

But of course i can understand that people who own a wolf or an hybrid illegaly want to keep this as secret as possible.
It didn't seem to be the same with Besinka and you just have confirmed this ;)

"Voilà" :)

(Edit: just to be sure... i have understood that they have allowance for Besinka. No more missunderstood with my bad english please :lol: )

"People stay in the shadow" you wrote. That means for me that they are not open. Sorry, if I did missunderstand you and you meant "only" a blog pp.

Rod, they have an allowance because they have 4 wolves and they live direct at the street and everyone who passes by can see them. And of course not only see them but they howl from time to time. So there is nothing to hide.

Maybe they will come over to me in july or I will go over there. These are very nice people and they are "older" that is why they do not have a homepage or blog. I am 47 so you can imagine what I mean with older.

Christian

I don´t know, r0d. And I´m sceptical of people who own CsW and wolves. There is always someone who wants to refresh the "calculation of wolf blood".

Voilà :)

They have some csw, but they don´t breed them longer time.
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/dbase/o32.html

Thank you, Hanka :)