IMO, what is needed to form the basis for the KC registration and to build up relations within europe is trust, plain and simple. and to attain this, both breeders and owners need to be upfront about their motives, past, present and future.

i don't think "ruling out" owners of mongrels will change much, because it is the owners themselves and their attitudes that will be the driving force behind the recognition overall. obviously pure bred CsV's are an important and vital factor to it all, but i dont think its right the rule out others just because they haven't got a pure CsV.

i mean, take myself for example, i don't own a csv, therefore i have just as much of a standing as somebody who owns a mongrel, does that mean i am also not passionate about the breed?

Would you not welcome lovers of the breed who are not yet owners? I am not sure the kennel club stipulates that all members of a club MUST be current owners (although, I don't know this for a fact, so please correct me if I am wrong). The registry of dogs must only contain pure bred CsV's (FCI registered or not, as this is what your ultimate goal is). I agree on the non inclusion (clumsy, but seemed nicer than exclusion ;)) of current 'breeders' who breed mixes though - they will have to get their own settlement with the KC first, independent of the pure CsV club, or it will make a mockery of what you are trying to do. Your hardest bit is going to be trying to find the pure dogs without the help of these 'breeders', but I am not sure if your initial list needs to be exhaustive (once recognition is achieved, dogs can be added retrospectively - again, someone correct me if I am wrong).

By including people who hope to become owners in the future (near or distant), you are ensuring your club can continue to grow. You will be bringing in lots of varied experiences and opinions which can all be added to the 'melting pot'. You will also be able to address the breeding pool issue easier if prospective owners are planning to import from various kennels.

As for suspect dogs because of the CW issue - I don't think you can exclude them entirely at this point since they are still FCI recognised. It may be at some point in the future that some will have to be removed from the recognition, but that will be happening on a world-wide scale, so the KC cannot blame you for including them now.

Well done for getting the ball rolling and lots of luck :)

i think you took the post wrong....but tbf maddie it is important imo that the people behind this have the right motives(owning a mongrel and breeding mongrels are two different things imo),also if we want the dogs we already have here registered they can be no 'doubt' they are pure csv or it would be a 'mockery' and pointless.

Sorry, but I still did not make myself clear. "Active group" in my mind, in the future could become the core of the British CSV Club. Support such a club can anyone who's intentions are clear, and honest. If he is a owner of a hybrid, or a dog of another breed, no interferes. Shouldn’t be a member of a club, and his mixed dog / bitch cannot participate in reproduction. I know several people who do not have a CSV and are supporting CSV community really great. So I don’t think you are out.

Well said Maddie, pity not many are like this just yet...:(

Unfortunately, the current 'breeders' past motives have been to mix to make money (they are not doing it to preserve or improve a breed, so what other reason is there?) - and they don't see anything wrong in that :cry:, so if they now want to breed pure, who can blame others for being a bit suspicious of their change of heart, and the true motives behind that?

where has anyone said they would exclude non owners? that would be a ridiculous thing to do....its not a cult :lol:

i think i worry about the cw dogs as our csv population is so small,if there is any doubt i do not think they should be bred from...if it turns out they have to be 'removed' that would be half the population already 'mutts' and the whole thing would be 'laughable' imo :(

i agree totally about the owning a mongrel and breeding mongrels ... if a "breeder" is happy breeding mongrels and can't see the damage that they are causing then they have no right to form the basis of a breed that they are in effect ruining. whereas owners of mongrels may well own them for a number of reasons which doesn't include "wolfy looking".

i also agree with you when you say that there can be no doubt of the purity of the dogs that are registered for the KC recognition, as there needs to be solid and pure bloodlines present for this breed to move forward.

please dont take me wrong, im not trying to stand up for the breeders of mixes. i just dont think its right to rule out anybody else with involvement/a passion for the csv.

I was responding to Tassle's post ;)

I agree that suspect dogs should not be included in any breeding plans but, until proven otherwise, they can be in the list of pure CsV's living in the UK. Not all dogs/bitches on the list will be for breeding, they are just there 'cos they are pure bred and representative of the breed standard. For recognition you need a minimum number of dogs, so they need to be in there for that reason at least :)

im with you on that maddie...but u know that ;-) :)

agreed! hence why i put 'not be bred from' ;)....but sadly most csv owners here want to breed...and will do..regardless :(

sad times...:cry:

sad but true :(

How do we get this onto a new thread? People might be missing it since it is entirely off the original topic...

And this is why people who care for CSV future here need to be so careful. I'd like to trust them 100%

Need to ask Nebulosa to split it in two threads. Maybe "British Kennel Club Recognition?"

Aots of current owners want to breed but I'll think you'll find alot (hopefully most) of future owners are simply interested in the companionship of this breed.

Lets hope you are right, Murph :) It would be nice to think that the few real owners at the moment (ie non producers) will be joined by many more.

I've messaged her...

I know of three pups from three different pure and healthy lines and very interesting litters, that are coming to the UK early next year! For the time being the owners want to enjoy the puppyhood of their dogs and leave the question of breeding or not open for later, i.e. 3-4 years.

Great news :)

I don't want a csv to use for breeding, I simply want a pet...that I've no doubt will teach me a lot.


Taz

Oh yes!:lol: :banghead:daysmile:love:love:love

:kiss_2:Rose:bigok Faith is slowly being restored xx

Hang on guys....wasn't meant as 'people on this thread' want to breed :roll:

But let's face it it is true,pixie has mentioned breeding,as has orkwolf and a lot of novice owners I have spoken to,and not forgetting any dog bought from 'mr winder' is encouraged to breed from...and some of these dogs contain cw....that's all I was saying

I would only breed Pixie if she passed all the health checks, and it was to promote the breed here, otherwise i am not interested in breeding her and never have been. She was bought as a pet pure and simple, and that is the way she will stay, I have no intention of importing or buying any other CSV for breeding although i am tempted to get another as a pet lol because she is so lovely. I hope that clears up my breeding ambitions just in case I am an Owner not a breeder

thats still breeding ;-) and isnt your dogs sire a cw dog?

anyway its not meant as a 'slur' im just stating facts...a fact you posted on this forum before :)

Yes her dad is a CW dog, and i dont really have any intention to breed just stating the conditions that would make me do it, and I did'nt take it as a slur mainly because it never came across that way lol

I know, was just taking the oppertunity to make my position/intentions clear.


Taz

Why do we share our lives with dogs?!
That special sort of companionship that you don't have with people..that special bond ...thats what i'm looking with my csv......
...and seems it is that special something that csv owners are discribing when they say csv's are 'different' than other breeds.
I hope that is what motivates others....not the opportunity to breed

I do hope too. But supply and demand are dictating
other motives. And whenever money is involved, I am not so trusty any more..

i dont want to feel that way...but i do :(

Done, but I left here the posts talking about the mixes and old breeders too, because I think it could be a problem to the recognition of the breed at the british kennel club.
If you find better split it in one different topic (one only about the mixes and other problems related) please let me know.

I have no interest in breeding at all.

Although I own a Mix and would actually like a Saarloos - I like the CsV as a breed and would be interested in helping to get recognition in the hope that one day the Saarloos might do the same..

just a point i am 53years old and had dogs of various breeds over the years mainly GSD's i have only bred once when my border terriers mated by mistake and that now cant happen again (poor boy) hardly a novice owner

does anyone know when the next meet is in europe will try to get there and does anyone in Britain want to meet up to form a club it does not need to be straight away but we need to get a date organised

This is ,indeed, all that motivates me and I look forward to the day when I have a CsW pup of my own and may even be able to take to shows in the future:p

Yes I'm more than happy to meet up, but no, I don't know when the next Euro meeting is.

Taz

I think info about most of meetings you can find here, in this site.
Here is event calendar:
http://www.wolfdog.org/site/calendar

may be not very helpful as just realised names of events are written mostly in languages different than english.

Thanks


Taz

In the beginning of our club, we created a "Code of Ethics" and also a set of club bylaws. These can be used to oust people from the club (they were both finalized about a month ago, so we haven't had to enforce them yet). Although we haven't had the problem of mix-breeding here (well, maybe some Tamasken "variation" people, but they have no interest in our club or breed), we have had some other issues...but everyone is given a clean slate at this point, since there were no legally binding club documents prior to ours for the breed. If anyone messes up now, and we are aware of it, they will have their membership terminated...though unfortunately, this has no effect on their relationship with AKC.

At our core we have a board of 5 members who make decisions on voting people out, and takes on judicial duty if people violate the code of ethics or bylaws. We also have different types of membership - full voting rights are only given to adult CSV owners residing in the US, but non-owners as well as owners/non-owners can have non-voting membership and be fully involved with club activities. We plan to have a health testing scheme as part of our code of ethics, as well as a mandate on no cross-breeding. Maybe it is worth it for your club to look to other clubs (as we did!) - both CSV clubs in other countries, as well as "successful" (in terms of ethics and health) parent breed clubs within the UK. I would think the KC might be of some use also once they realize that there are serious people who are in things for the right reasons.

Here are links to our club documents, if they might be of some help:
http://www.czechoslovakianvlcak.org/codeofethics.html
http://www.czechoslovakianvlcak.org/...nstitution.pdf

can anyone translate

Thanks for that info.

I know that the beauceron breeders/owners/enthusiasts in the uk have only had their breed club up and running a year or 2. Perhaps they would be good people to contact for more info/advice on the process?


Taz

Thank you very much for your valuable advice. In fact, the club should have some internal rules. I also had a similar idea with five members constituting the core of the club, or "council". Definitely there is no reason reinvent the wheel again, the organization of the club can be ‘borrowed’ from others. In any case, we don’t need to hurry. I personally believe that if the CSV is to become a proper breed in the UK, it can happen only on the basis of new dogs from Europe, with FCI pedigrees. And we would have to wait a bit to appear more of them in this country. Then you have to wait even more if someone would start to breed. Like Rona said, a minimum of 2-3 years. And I also think this is a long term operation.

Regarding the club, in my opinion, such club's tasks would include close cooperation with breeders and clubs from Europe, as well as the community of this forum. We will not get very far without the cooperation with European breeders. We need to rebuild their trust. And I don’t know how we could regain that, if the club would promoted the further mating males and females from kennels before classified by them as "uncertain". I know that because of these words I will be very disliked by many of the owners / breeders in the UK, and I apologize for that, but just as I found it too risky to buy a puppy from one of the breeders in this country, same (if I would ever to be a breeder) I would consider risky mating my CSV with another SCV coming from one of these breeders. Many may simply be unaware of it, are sure their CSV is pure just because their breeder said so. For the same reasons I would hold back from breeding with the dogs in pedigree of which is Crying Wolf or de louba Tar. I do not know too much about the problems with these kennels, but such problems exist, so why unnecessarily risk, when this can be easily avoided. Perhaps there could be performed some sort of test (DNA?)in both cases? And dogs that would passed, could be considered "breedable" again. Then it would be possible to ask administrators of this forum to change a breeding status of such dog in database. Unfortunately, I think that rules should be very strict and rigorous, mainly because of the past, and I would think so on even if I was the owner of one of the dogs from British kennels.

Also, I do not know how the breeders from Europe could to "unban" UK, while in the British club forum would be the same man who was one of the reasons for banning UK in first place.

I would like to stress once again that these are just my personal thoughts based on my current understanding of the topic. Hope that I managed to explain myself clearly regardless of my poor english.
Now you can throw the stones :heul:help

......club aside,

i have no reason to doubt my dog is a csv just because he doesnt have an fci piece of paper,as far as i am aware there is one dog of 'de loubar tar' in his pedigree and he has not been marked as a suspect(correct me if i am wrong :()

i have met both my dogs parents,and even though my breeder breeds mixes she has always been open an honest about what she does and not been secretive about it in anyway,(and that is not meant to be an excuse for crossing ,just fact)in all the years she has owned/bred her csv's ,Tupac was from only her 2nd pure litter!(she has only had 4 i believe)i had known her from before(a few years) regarding a long story about a 'rescue' (not wolfdog)and the trust i have in her started then,as she was the only one that told the truth in the matter and actually helped!

i do feel it would be easier to use fresh fci imported stock....but i think its a little unfair to the pure dogs that are here....i do understand though

i love my dog no matter what,and love him no matter what he is........... but i do believe him to be a csv(albeit without papers)untill proven wrong.

now go on...throw the stones at me :( :( :(

I wont. I know it is unfair. I feel really bad to even think the way I have described :(. I believe you are right. But no other way to separate CSV from crosses comes to my mind. And whoever will be trying to establish this breed in this country, and will have purity of breed in mind, will have to do it somehow. This is really tough... Maybe other people will have other ideas.

P.S. Rona was right, that really looks similar to situation in Poland when Solidarnosc took over communists.

:lol: Especially, there were also some "good" communists and quite a few very corrupted anti-communists... :rock_3

Exactly....

It's a shame that the original dogs that were imported from mainland Europe were not DNA profiled (I think at least one has passed away?). In that way, you could collect DNA back to the original dogs. I have encouraged AKC to put a mandate on AKC profiling all CSVs that are bred. Currently, it must only be done for dogs that are imported, multiple-sire, or AI. I would like to see the same for all natural coverings of domestically bred dogs as well. :roll:

It has taken about 3 years to get to the stage that we are at in the US (26 club households, 3 registered litters on the ground, acceptance by AKC as an official club this past month). We had our first "meeting" (more of a meet-up) in 2008, but most of those owners weren't too interested in being very involved with a club, and are not currently involved with our club (one owner has passed away). I think you will find this as well - many owners are happy to be just that, and choose not to be actively involved with a club, for a variety of reasons. It seems to be the breeders (with varying motives) and the "die-hards" who are the driving (and shaping) forces. Dialogue is the key element initially - a strong set of leaders is great to build knowledge, redirect/resolve disagreements, and to help people find their niche in the club. We are hopeful that we will have an "official" meeting (as well as a breed specialty show perhaps!) in 2012.

In my opinion there is only one way to rebuild british population-start all over again but rationally.

One very important fact-none responsible breeder will use progeny of dogs with no dokumented orgin! If they will be use in so small populacion as british csv in few years after recognition they will be ubiquitous in population and hole UK population will be useless for FCI breeders for ever.
Moreover, if breeder have choose between owner from FCI country or disappearing his blood because of mixing with no dokumented dogs will sold more promising puppies to FCI. For UK owners stay only puppies that nobody else won`t buy. Do you want to start importing future breeding dogs from this worst position :?

ok i know im naive but.....

the kennel club accepted the breed originally then withdrew it because of defra's stance,so was it a problem with the dogs themselves? i would of thought if they had granted it the paperwork was there,so surely its about showing the kennel club that defra was wrong and have themselves changed their minds :?

I believe if we dont start something soon, then people will continue to breed mixes or buy dubious bloodlines to breed ,and this britain verses europe thing will continue, its possible to start the club then start importing breeding stock if that is what is required, with perhaps the club sponsoring imports, and i believe my dog is pure, but if proven otherwise she will still be special to me.

and dont throw stones at me they hurt

I think the term strike while the iron is hot is approrpriae here!

Go for it - you'll be amazed at the support there is for getting this going (some people like to keep silent until the ball is rolling :confused:). After all, you have everything to gain and not so much to lose :)

Once things are in motion, more and more different bloodlines will be available to you all, which has to be a good thing for what you want to achieve xx

Pixie, Murph - can't agree more
tupacs2legs - I remember reading the same thing...

Ok, I wrote it before, but will quote it again. This is one of requirements for KC recognition:
Then how many British pure CSV actually has official pedigrees?

with that in mind though the KC had as good as registered the CsV as a breed before defra stuck their boot in. so there must still be at least 20 dogs with pedigree's in the UK, unless people have exported?

Pedigree means family tree not registration document I thought,
U can see my dogs on here,only he and his mother are 'not registered'

we are not asking for the kc to recognise fci, we are asking them to recognise the csv... no?

If it was granted once and taken away because of defra...the kc must of had what they required to grant it in the first place.

Yes, but first thing, it was 9 years ago, many things could happened through that time. Second, if I am not wrong, most of these dogs belonged to Mr Winder and his friend, as they introduced the breed in UK. But someone told me he is not interested in getting this breed recognized again. I don't know.

Hmmm... I thought they mean by this copies of documents confirming pedigree of the dog...

We are asking KC to recognize breed already recognized by FCI...


Yes, it may be the point. However, not registered mating was happening during these last eight years. And there was no club associated with the KC to keep a Stud Books or something like that. I think, in KC perspective dogs born in the UK during that period of time are appearing simply out of nowhere. All Kennel Clubs are all about registering litters. But I'm not entirely sure about all of that, so this morning I wrote an email to the KC regarding re-recognition of CSV... Now I'm waiting for a response. Fingers crossed.

If any one has some ideas, or thoughts about it, please share it. It may help...

YEs hedeon I guess we will see....I feel its a slight vendetta against my dog....4 litters in all these years is not 'litters appearing out of nowhere' :roll:

Its funny how its a problem because they are british dogs,so many things equal 'farce' abroad about these dogs but if its britain included its guilty until proven innocent....that and mere snobbery!!

??? Layla, this is no vendetta, I promise. Just wrote how I think things can be seen from KC perspective. But what I know? I would like to have discussion here, I now I am probably wrong. Just want someone to tell "no, you are wrong, we can do it 'that' way, or another way". This no way mean I against something, or some one. Really.

Well, if it is who I think it may be - he lied :evil: His wife has just posted on FB that the male is going to be neutered (no indication of when), yet he stated that this had already been done.

Why can't people be honest and open in their dealings with breeders - it is no wonder that the suspicion lingers over enquiries from the UK :(

Aww..perhaps if you,d asked the gentleman in question instead of presuming..im
On his FB and you would know that his male had a medical problem
And they had to reschedule this opp, shame you prefer to make
Such comments and its his sister!!! You see not his wife who
Doesnt have facebook..ive advised him to join, the fact is still his dog would be
Newted before his new addition comes.

Wouldnt like to see him miss represented as he is a really
Nice bloke...hope that clears your concerns christine!

not wanting to butt in Christine, however it was rather unfair to give out incorrect information and divert the thread back to old and incorect news! especially when it was all looking positive and forum members were pulling together.

not having understanding this FC1 stuff although my girl is registered out of UK and spayed!! can she be of any assistance, I may be a novice to this site but having owned this breed in and out of the uk for over 10 years I may be of some help.. bit long in the tooth for forum stuff!! but may be of help in other ways as i am a mere owner and not breeder!

cheers

my names matthew if that helps you address me!

I really am not bothered what your name is

I have not written anything false - what makes you think we are talking about the same person anyway?

Because I have seen your emails and correspondance with the said person and also a friend on the same page you have seen the post small old world eh. I just think its only fair to comment with the full facts and yes you have given false info calling him a liar which he is not and his 'wife' who actually his sister its laughable really. but also very wrong to mis quote

I address you as christine but is it sadie? I am confused? Its such a shame you continue this on each thread and it irritated me enough to correct you.

if you post on a thread are you asking for a reply or is it just informational, I thought forums were for chat and reply? perhaps you dont like being corrected although I did try to reframe but felt It was a we bit unfair of you to share incorrect info IMO

Just having to hear about (much less deal with) unscrupulous @$$-clowns is really gut wrenching. In a way I'm happy I am not the only person who has encountered this type of person wanting our dogs, but I also sympathize all of you who are trying to do all we can for the benefit of the breed while simultaneously keeping our eyes open for these types. My best wishes for the intelligence to outweigh the ignorance of lawmakers and/or breed club officials in the UK...

Americani, Thank you from all of us who care xx

To everyone else, I posted the above as a warning to others that there are still unscrupulous people out there and that this is what we are trying to change. As everyone has been agreeing, trust is what is needed and this is a prime example of deceit in work. Luckily no pure puppy from Europe ended up in this situation (they have a UK bred one now), but breeders in Europe, and the lovers of the breed doing great work in the UK, need to be cautious. Trust is difficult to earn and easy to lose, and unfortunately the bad actions of the few seem to have a more lasting effect than the good actions of the many.

Keep up all the great work getting the club organised and - eventually - getting KC recognition.

If you really have seen the emails, you will know I am telling the truth (as it was put to me) and that I was very supportive towards 'said person' - who, I notice, you choose NOT to name and shame but seem to take great delight in doing it to those with whom you disagree ;) - so, forgive me if I am a little upset to discover that I - and others on here - have been blatently lied too.

This is my last correspondence on here with you - please stop using threatening behaviour towards others and get your facts straight in the future before you open your mouth.

Thank you.

Vaiva had let clear before that the "said person" is reading this topic, if someone is telling a lie he can register here and reply personaly, anyway it's mainly of his interess to convince Vaiva (and others breeders) that he is an reliable person to have a pup from her breeding.

This topic is a bit important to UK, as I could see here there are some problems for the future UK breeders and also the "breed lovers" to solve, if he really wants to breed pure CzW we expect him to at least help with it.

I agree that things need to be done sooner rather than later.

Maybe a core group of people who own a pure could get together and throw some idea around, including how to deal with the dogs already here (DNA profiling ect)
Maybe draft some correspondence to people already producing and who also own pure, stating the intentions of setting up a breed club, what specifications would be put in place for joining and a Code of ethics.

Due to how difficult it is for people to meet up, possibly a Yahoo group (private) could be set up to throw emails about, then when you have something down that everyone agrees with, things can be sent to the relevant parties and possibly meet from there?

I Am not sure how it works with breed clubs, but I think (under the law) you have to have 6 people to form a committee? (Or is that just if you have paying members?)

I guess the alternative is contacting DEFRA and the KC and finding out what was in place? Or the people who had set it up with the KC in the first place?

X-breeding
 

Is it really, HONESTLY, possible to be that naive to think it is OK to cross breed wolves into pure CsV's to make better CsV's?? Lets say I am breeding Beagles.... How in the hell am I going to think I have made the breed any better by making a mutt? It isn't OK...Plain and simple... Then there is the fact that anything including "wolf blood" is going to catch a small share of negative attention. To countries who are new to CsV's, this is a slap in the face of any potential, positive, attention to our breed. :?

its a statement that is used as an excuse to cross by people that do not know the first thing about the breed 'csv'

it could go both ways though,hopefully if the breed is recognised people will realise they are a domestic dog breed and not a pet wolf and the 'interest' of these numptys will dwindle...hopefully...maybe?

I think there is a documentary movie which can explain many of cross breeding excuses. Some time ago BBC have made a film "pedigree dogs exposed" which kind of shocked people in UK, and made Kennel Club to loose a lot of public respect. Basically, movie is about genetics problems and sicknesses of pedigree dogs in UK, caused by inbreeding. Public was terrified and shocked. So I imagine some breeders started to use a "care for breed, and health of dogs" as a excuse to cross. It could make good impression on shocked public, and put breeder in glory of animal lover. Problem is CSV ie relatively new breed, and from very beginning breeders are aware of problems caused by inbreeding. In fact CSV is one of healthiest dog breeds.

Link to movie (1 hour long):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhXHFOrBbEc

Most constructive post so far by tassle. There can always be another thread of crossing but how about moving forward from here with regard to the title of the thread?

We did have problems with the dog breeding here because of this video too.

People start to use it as an excuse to mix dogs, by us it was almost fatal, because really bad breeders as people who only wanted to show "the miracle of life" to their child and win some money with the selling of the pups found on this video an excuse to mate and breed mongrels.

yet we have people who use this video as support to make the things wrong pretending to be ethical, but breeders and principally owners gathered in an campaing explaining about "how wrong it this video according to our reality" or "according to the reality of the specific breed" at some of ours most well known internet spots for dog lovers.

CzW is an very unknown breed, tends to be easy work with the conscientization explaining that with CzW the situation is different and that mix dogs will only helps to ruin the breed also in health.

You have how to proof showing how many ills has been already found at the breed only because it does have GSD at its blood and how many new and unknown illness the addition of a new breed would bring.

oh god, not that bloody documentary again. *Sighs* and to think she's making a sequel.

Considering the woman responsible for it:

Blamed the kc and dog showing community for what was wrong, but used dogs as examples that were neither shown or kc registered.

Used an imported gsd as an example of unethical English show dog breeding.

Admitted to edditing the interviews in order to make it look like certain people were saying things they weren't.

Refused to include interviews with certain breeders/breed clubs because it would portray pedegree dog breeders/the dog showing community in a positive light. Clearly she wasn't interested in giving people a balanced view.

Made absolutely no reference to puppy farms/mills and byb's, who are the people most likely to produce unhealthy, untypical examples of breeds, with little or no thought.

Wasted a brilliant oppertunity to raise some important issues and fairly educate the public, in favour of sensationalism.

Gave the puppy farmers and bybs a brilliant marketing ploy for their mass produced littrs, pure and cross breed alike.

I don't think I'll be payng much attention to what ever she has to say next, unless she can prove she didnt in anyway, eddit, missrepresent the evidence or down right lie about the subject.


Taz

wow
 

This is amazing information, perhaps we should begin gathering up all of the mentally handicapped and burn them alive for being witches...:evil:
Some very important / valid key issues are brought up in this video, but you must have the proper paradigm to make efficient use of it. 500+ health problems brought about by inbreeding:cry:. Look carefully at these breeds!:shock:. Look into their history; at the time most of these breeds were being developed, inbreeding was also being practiced by royalties... Humans did not know they were causing such horrible issues until the 19th century! Our breed is young! Respectable / responsible breeding will give us a fighting chance at producing healthy dogs. When someone tracks and periodically tests various members throughout a pack of wolves for a generation or so, then you may just produce a wolf which may help our breed. We have enough diversity to only breed the strong and healthy, and adjust (only if needed) the standard. Our standard is "roomy" for selective breeding already. Every day, new genetic tests are being developed! We have the ability to utilize these wonderful tools to do wonderful things in regards to selective breeding, but we need more responsible breeders than all of those "TOP BREEDERS" on this video who said it was "rubbish" :roll: when these problems were brought to their attention..

When I was about 3 or 4 years old, my parents bred Beagles.. Epilepsy was a terrible problem with my dad's female... I use this as motivation to do the right thing!

whatever way we need to do it soon

well really,we need to wait for a reply to hedeons email to the kc.... will know where we stand and a bit more of what needs to be done.(mind u they never answered me a year ago :()

Well, I have received a reply, a bit strange... According to KC, CSV wasn't registered with KC before. Or in 2002. Any way I will quote evertyhing

My email

And her reply:
Is someone not telling the truth?

that is the problem, if we can get a group together and forward the names of the dogs with pedigrees to he kennel club, and start to make noises so they know we are not going away they may possibly answer. I doubt it but we have to try, I just believe less people will mix if we are KC registered, as then potential new owners wont be looking at 98% csv 2% whatever, because they will want the KC reistration papers

now why wouldnt that surprise me :(
i do not think it will stop them being mixed,i dont think it would stop them being bred without papers either,you only have to look at the wolf-alikes and the designer-breed stuff going on to see that.

but all the same wont stop us trying...eh? :)

I agree about not stoping mixing, but the demand might fall when there are KC registered dogs and no it wont stop us, this march for recognition has started

Demand will fall also when we start to "advertise" European breeders, at least till normal breeding starts here.

Oh great so in 2 years we will have a massive influx of puppies hitting the
Market from novice breeders that have only owned this breed for
Short period, that may still not be KC registered.

All i can see here is disaster! Do you honestly believe that
All these puppies you breeders are selling to the UK in Jan
Wont be used as breeding stock? Rubbish each and everyone
Will I bet my life on it!

Seems to be a lot of pessimism ....How many people in the UK have bought a dog from a European breeder, with the agreement they would not breed and then went ahead and bred anyway?

Do you not think what is happening now is a disaster for the breed? Why is it a good thing to allow the breeders currently here to have a monopoly on these dogs with crossbreeding chucked in as a nice sideline for them?

Do you think things should be left as they are?? Are you happy with the breed as it is in this country?

If not what would your solution be? People are at least trying here to head in the right direction, a bit of positive input might be nice?

It is disaster now, at worst we will remain the same, but if we can get a big enough pool of purebreds then it might turn around if we dont try we will never know. we all know people will always crossbreed but so what we can ignore them and get our breed up and running, there are thousands of mongrels in every country in the world but also alot of people who cherish there particular breed get on the train as all help will ber needed

How about starting off with a Code of ethics?

Listing what would be the criteria for membership? Or possibly different levels of membership?

But who would do this and would we all agree thats why i think meeting up is the best thing to produce the code and membership levels i personally would be willing to ntravel anywhere and collect people where i could to get this srarted

I bought outside the UK and never crossed my mind to breed my dog, I wanted a companion not a money making machine! I do believe I am 'rare'!

Mine are from Europe and registered but I have not considered a breeding program ,so 'happyfeet' your not rare! theres a few of us out there who enjoy the dog not after a money making machine!:evil:

Like I said ...pessimism..
happyfeet..why do you believe you are rare?...who are these UK owners that are using CzW as a money making machine?!

maybe not as rare as you think, there are dogs that go for a lot more if i wanted just to make money, i just love this breed

you only need to type into google and theres 5 well known breeders of CSW and also the majority of these dabble in mixing the wolfdog breed.
Just by looking on puppy sale sites there are a number of 'back yard breeders' who are selling CSW and mixed, who dont have big websites but use such sites.

Throughout this thread U.K. non owners and mixed bred dog owners are eager to bring in pups to then form a breeding pool, however it still concerns me the number who dislike these breeders, rant on about them but yet are happy to line their pockets and buy their dogs. Double standards ?

On here out of the posting members other than tupacs who bought her dog from one of the said breeders has a pure CSW that is not from a british breeder? and doesnt breed, I ask?

I can only find a few which makes me rare IMO

I have a pure CSV but dont breed, Also I think people were importing to breed as the gene pool in britain was so small, in order to breed and make the gene pool bigger but yes some people mixed just to make money and IMO there was no other reason but now we are trying to do something about it,It would be great if you joined us as more knowledge from responsible owners like yourself would help, but if not we will still try

I know travelling is a huge issue to many people which was why I thought the Yahoo group might be best - that way you can find out who is really serious.

Personally I could not travel at the moment, as I said I am willing to help, but i have a cross and it is unlikely I will ever own a CSV, that does not mean I wouldn't like to help in any way I can.

£ € $ ₱
 

I am the 3rd breeder in America. I am a "Novice" because I have only had 1 litter - ever! However, what sets me apart from the likes of certain posters here is the fact that I abide by "ETHICS". Yes, people actually use them, especially those who genuinely care. I am not making money from my pups! I am still in debt from all of the health tests I have performed on my adults... I still have pups from March! I am not breeding again until I have them all in proper homes and also have proper homes reserving puppies from my next litter (after that, I will have to wait for my girl to go into heat again - NOT THE SAME BITCH!) I want to see the UK head in the proper direction. The government already has its eye on "Dangerous Animals", so wouldn't it make sense to not cross, but to focus on improving the "pure" dogs, at least in the beginning??

And a very nice x it is, At the moment I think all help and support would be appreciated. My mothers cousin owned, shown and judged Boxers for 30 years now she has a little yorkie/jr cross but still judges boxers, because she knows about them, and not owning one dosent mean she still cant be involved, or that she has a little cross means she feels less about boxers or is going to breed boxers with her dog, its just her personal circumstance dictates what she can keep, but the boxer dog world still recognise her value to the breed, and this is what I believe about some not all of the mix owners and breeders in this country, so IMO you should be involved

There are not 5 well known breeders... There are plenty who are crossing crosses with crosses, in the same way there is even more people crossing 'inuits', GSD's, huskeys etc.

We have organized / are organizing ours in the USA via internet. I have not had to travel. Marcy travels, but she shows a lot too. I plan on traveling and showing in the future, but it is possible to minimize travel.