True. Need a lot of arguments.


Most of petdog owner if you inform them well and tell them the true...
99 % of the owners of my puppies... so it is ok.

I just only told them "I made the test, and i know i am one of the only one who do it... so the results are there... Which warrantly would you have with the most of breeder whom don't do the test ?"

Jealousy is a secondary emotion and typically refers to the negative thoughts and feelings of insecurity, fear, and anxiety over an anticipated loss of something that the person values, particularly in reference to a human connection. (from Wikipedia)

The jealousy is, i suppose, the main reason that people give you a bad reputation, and put you in blacklist... even you know you work hard and in the good way.

"Make you duty to the breed as honest people would make it...", a safe way to think for me.

Totally agree with you.

I am experimenting some problems with N/N puppies, very weak...

I would highly prefer it is carrier... if better health of course !!

Chee'Yr-Wôck dit Mogwai de la Mollynière de Lo'Scale : N/N

(Merci à Carmen et Alessio, d'avoir accepté de faire tester leur chien....) Je suis contente pour vous !
Cordialement

test results
Pituitary Dwarfism / Genetischer Nachweis auf Zwergenwuchs - PCR

Aslan vom sturmwind
Ergebnis: Genotyp: N/N (free)

Cyntia spod dumbiera
Ergebnis: Genotyp: N/N (free)

Chyez Ddey de la Mollyniere de LoScale
Ergebnis: Genotyp: N/N (free)


Chogan von keschla
Ergebnis: Genotyp carrier

Chenoa von Keschla
Ergebnis: Genotyp carrier

idefix vom wengerhof
test results
Pituitary Dwarfism
Genotyp: N/Dw (carrier)

Hi to All.
I haven't been reading on this site lately, too busy doing other things.

Just a small update, for those who may be interested.

I made "unofficial" tests for my dogs Oliver and Lunatica.
Oliver is DM/N but I already knew it from his sons, one N/N and one DM/N and mother of litter N/N can only mean Oliver was DM/N.
This is a confirmation of the result.
As for Lunatica, she is DM/DM.
When in Slovakia Ina took blood from Lunatica therefore I believe it will be possible to make official results from her blood and hopefully make some research from a positive but still healthy (cross my fingers!) wolfdog.
Ina, can you confirm this? can we make official tests from Luni's blood and hopefully use it for further investigation?
Luckily Lunatica was castrated as soon as I knew about her displasia.
I strongly suggest her brothers to make tests too.

She has no serious movement problems, maybe just a little but I guess it is from her displasia, it's been like that since ages.
Oliver instead is already 8 and half years old and is healthier than ever, jumping, running, very goo dshape.
It seems Prague's cold winter is doing him better than italy's warm summers!!
I wish good luck to all the dogs, whoever the owner is, may they live a healthy and happy life.
Massimo

One last comment, then I will return to my long and healthy absence from this site.
I believe that a breeder that "produced" DM/DM dogs has nothing to be ashamed about, he simply wasn't lucky. On the other hand, a breeder who has only N/N dogs was just luck, not a cool breeder.

As already mentioned by Daniela, there is surely another factor than merely the SOD1 gene, and this factor has not been found yet. Let's call it factor F.
Only when Factor F is combined to SOD1 gene, the illness will occur.
It is therefore important, TODAY, from a medical point of view both the SICK dogs (DM/DM and Factor F) and the healthy but positive dogs (DM/DM but no factor F). So testing our dogs is important to help the research MORE than just avoiding to have sick dogs.

As for Breeding and Breeders, DM/N dogs should be used freely in breeding but with a careful attention, and I believe also DM/DM dogs should be used as long as we avoid to produce DM/DM dogs.
Don't forget that from DM/DM dogs also non positive dogs can be born, and with a correct breeding the DM gene can be even eliminated after the second generation.
My Jasna is PROUD niece of Baron Spod Dumbera and is N/N. I am glad he was used in breeding and that he wasnt STUPIDLY cut off.

I believe it is DUTY of a breeder, today, to do the maximum he can to avoid producing DM/DM dogs, but I also believe that it would be a CRIME and DESTRUCTION of our race if breeder used ONLY N/N dogs in his breeding plans or if owners bought ONLY N/N dogs and avoided the DM/N ones.

Goodnight!

Massimo, I hope Lunatica will be healthy for all her life!

As for you reflections, for example Spettro is grand grand son of Baron, Spettro's mother is his grand daughter and she's N/N too, so I am happy too the he's been used and I think that the right thing is to test as many dogs as possible without making a witch hunt. Testing is fundamental I still think. Research is too.

I still wish a healthy life without the F factor to every DM/DM dog.

Hi Massimo, I cross fingers for Lunatica for maximally health life.

Well said, Massimo. We narrow the gene pool far too much if we avoid using dogs because of a 'bad' result. People have been saying that an N/DM + N/DM breeding will produce 50% affected dogs. Surely, statistically, it would be 25% affected, 50% carrier and 25% free? So by avoiding these breedings, we deny the existance of healthy pups who can carry on the diversity of the gene pool.

PS Everyone. I have never studied genetics so please excuse me if I am wrong and let me know where I have gone wrong.

Love to Lunatica x

This was exactly the point Margo was trying to make. We don't know what the role of factor(s) "F" is in DM activation!
Until it's discovered (in the medical sense), all information can only be obtained from the owners and vets of DM symptoms affected dogs and it's a pity so few of them have the nerve to share it. :(

All the best to Lunatica. I'm sure she'll be fine!

Forest de la Mollynière de Lo'Scale : N/DM

Erratum : Son père n'est pas N/DM mais DM/DM ! (comme sa 1/2 soeur Thalia Crying Wolf)

Désolée de cette mauvaise information ....aucune volonté initiale de vouloir cacher, mais erreur de transmission orale de mon vétérinaire ...(justificatif reçu ce jour avec le couperet qui tombe !)


Translation:
Erratum: His father is not N/DM but DM/DM! (as his half sister Thalia Crying Wolf)
Sorry for this wrong information.. there was no intention to hide something but an oral transmition mistake of my vet.

Je suis désolé Lorry.
mais il précise aussi pourquoi la plupart de ses descendants N / DM

Translation:
Im Sorry Lorry.
But it also clarifies why most of his descendants are N/DM

re
 

Bonjour Lorry, je suis très déçue par ces nouvelles, cela ne signifie pas que Rambo va être malade ...;)
Tous ses enfants sont au moins porteurs, mais ne semble pas l'être par les résultats publiés ici .... ou il ya une erreur sur Rambo? N'est pas possible, par exemple Mogwai, Chye Z 'Ddey de la Mollyniere de Lo'Scale, Ckaa Mah-Loup de la Mollyniere de Lo'Scale ne peuvent être exemptés. Vérifiez à nouveau le résultat.
Cordialement.


Hello Lorry, I am very disappointed by this news, this does not mean that Rambo will be sick ...

All his children are at least carriers, but seems not to be so by the results published here .... or there is an error on Rambo? It is not possible, for example Mogwai, Chye Z 'Ddey de la Mollyniere de Lo'Scale, Ckaa' Mah-Loup de la Mollyniere de Lo'Scale can not be exempt. Check again the result.
Regards.

Bonjour,

Ayant reçu le papier hier soir, je suis encore sous le choc de la mauvaise nouvelle et j'avoue que je n'ai même pas réfléchi ni réagi au bien fondé de ce résultat ....

Votre raisonnement est en effet logique et du coup, je suis encore plus troublée et j'avoue ne plus trop comprendre ....

Pour ce qui est des résultats de Mogwai et Ckaa'Loup-Mah, effectivement ils sont annoncés N/N sur WD ....
Je n'ai pas vu les résultats de mes propres yeux, mais je n'ai aucune raison de douter des dires des propriétaires respectifs ....

Par contre, Chye Z'Ddey est N/N au niveau nanisme, mais n'a jamais été annoncée N/N au niveau MD .....(c'est sa mère Cinthia Spod Dumbiera qui est N/N)

Les tests ADN de Mogwai, (frère de portée de Chye Z'Dey - mariage de Cinthia Spod Dumbiera x Rambo CW ) certifient que les parents sont bien ceux annoncés ....
(je peux scanner le résultat d'Antagène si besoin)

Je vais me tourner vers les laboratoires Laboklin pour savoir s'ils peuvent avoir une marge d'erreur ....Et recommencer le cas échéant, mais de toute façon, ça ne changera pas la donne : Mon élevage est foutu !

Translation:
Having received the pappers yesterday, im still under the shock of the bad news and I confess that I haven't even tought neither responded to the validity of this result.

Your reasoning is logical and sudden, im even more confused and I confess dont understand even more.

About the results of Mogwai and Ckaa'loup-Mah, they are actually announced as N/N in Wolfdog.org, I haven't see the results with my own eyes but I have no reason to doubt of the owners' statement.
However, Chye Z'Ddey is free of Dwarfism and has never been tested to DM (is his mother, Cintia Spod Dumbiera, which is N/N).

The DNA test of Mogwai (brother of Z'dey Chye - mate of Cinthia Spod Dumbiera and Rambo Crying Wolf) certify that the parents are exactly the ones announced (I can scan the results if you whish)

I will contact the labs of Laboklin to see if they can have an margin of error and do it again is necessary, but anyway it will not change the situation, my kennel is... is... do have this problem ( :p )

Le fait même que vous exécutez les tests, cela signifie que ces chiffres doivent travailler à les améliorer, sans oublier que cette condition doit être surveillée, mais pas pour ce devrait être une honte pour tout le monde! Honorez ceux qui font les tests et appariés en conséquence. Toujours de bonne foi. J'étais vous, je pense que pour tester Quirinus et Sibir, si la situation est plus claire, vous agirez en conséquence.

Na taip, žinoma, rašykime visi savo gimtąja kalba, kam čia vargintis ir naudoti, pavyzdžiui, google.translate? :roll:

Sibir est prévu pour le test le mois prochain .... Quirinus est malheureusement décédé ...

Translation:
Sibir is planned to be tested next month, unfortunately Quirinus passed away.

Lorry, trai again the dm test of Rambo. alls italian MLS tested for the moment by laboklin are N/N. only Batsy et Baloo are non testet for the moment.
Belive me, if dog are carrier n'est pas une onte! Oublie ta idee de quitter l'elevage!!!!Commence a penser a tous les eleveurs FRANCAIS que n'ont pas testè aucun des leurs chiens et sans aucuns regret font de porté.....sense se poser aucun question.
Sei eticamente corretta, gli allevatori non corretti sono ben altri!!
Rifletti svp avant de prendre certaine decision!

Bonjour Silvanna,

Oui je vais refaire tester Rambo, Hanka vient de me donner de précieux conseils et la marche à suivre, auprès du Club Tchèque (merci à elle !)

Quant au reste ..... tu me connais, mieux que personne, tu sais combien je me sentirai vraiment mal dans ma peau de vendre des chiots porteurs ou atteints en sachant que cette fois-ci, je l'ai fait de façon volontaire .....
Ce que font les autres, ne me concerne pas ....
Chacun fait selon son éthique personnelle ...
Moi je n'arrive pas à m'y résoudre et pourtant j'ai 4 femelles en âge de reproduire ....

Bisous

Yes I am going to redo to test Rambo, Hanka has just given me of invaluable advice and the procedure, with the Czech Club (thanks to her !)

As for the rest, you know me, better than anybody, you know how much I shall really feel sick in my skin to sell carrier or affected puppies by knowing that this time, I made it in a voluntary

Way what make the others, do not concern me, each makes according to the personal ethics...
I not résouds me to it not and nevertheless I have 4 females old enough to reproduce....

Kisses

La marche a suivre pour faire le test?

Oh my Lord! I know it! My english is verry bad, but it is so bad? I understand nothing more! :blah
I have thought here is the english "Forum". French can not speak english, or is the french forum full? :p

Please Admin, make the french forum empty, so I understand here something. :gent

Greetings
Markus

Test is the same. Swab or blood of dogs. Lorry will send it in steril container to Czech.

Lorry, don´t be in panic. N/DM dogs are not end of World. In past we used DM/DM dogs too, but nobody knew it! We must take results of tests as "start point" for next breeding. Maybe in next 5-10 years we can have "clean population", if we will care about breeding and combinate parents.

Rocks'n Jewels Augite Dm/Dm :cry:

// Jimma

some results from russia (great thanks to daniela!):

Acti Lesny kamrat N/N
Gna Braterstwo wilcakow N/N
Ajsa z Chtelnických lesov N/N
Einar Girios Dvasia N/N
Cracovia Galicyjski wilk N/DM
Farn z Věrné smečky N/N
Kothar Girios Dvasia N/N

:cry: Not good, really really hoping for her best...

Very sad regards / Mikael

Having an affected dog (a/a or dm/dm) is never good but it is a good opportunity for us to learn about the affects DM has on the breed in general.

For those of you with older dogs who are affected - has the dog developed any symptoms? If so, at what age. What was the dog's life like (food, exercise / activity level, anything else that may be relevant).

For people with dogs who are affected but don't show symptoms - same questions (food? exercise / activity level?).

Have any developed symptoms yet (see above questions) or did they live a symptom free life (again, see questions above) if one has passed but not from DM related symptoms (and didn't develop symptoms)?

DM is being studied here and they are noticing that the diet the dog had may play a role in whether or not the dog develops symptoms.

Lorelei z Peronówki - N/DM
Wicher Cwany Wilk - N/DM (Owner agreed to display the result)

Daniela, :gent

Jabberwock z Peronowki N/DM
Anarchia Lalinok N/DM
Morrigan z Peronowki N/N
Czarna Dama Galicyjski Wilk N/DM
Gorthan Sungimanitu Tanka N/DM
Gorthan Maugrim N/N
Gorthan Mroczna Strzyga N/N
Gorthan Marrok N/N

Garuda z Peronowki DM N/N :)

Hi,

Uni od Úhoště and Crying Princess Chantal Srdcerváč DM N/N :p

Good news for all Eligo sons and daughters ;)

Eligo z Peronowki N/N

The same apply for our both foundation bitches...
Jolly z Molu N/N
Merry Bell z Molu N/N

And here comes the rest:
Alistair z Peronowki N/DM
Gibil z Peronowki N/N
Idun Imbus z Peronówki N/N
Juvart z Peronowki N/DM
Kaseya z Peronowki N/DM
Murmur z Peronowki N/N
Peymakilir z Peronowki N/N
Qilin z Peronowki N/DM
Qareen z Peronowki N/DM

More results will follow... :)

Cora von Keschla

Degenerative Myelopathie - PCR
Myelopathie:
Ergebnis: Genotyp: N/N

Lithuanian CSV results: now tested are this dogs:
Harmonia Eden severu N/N
Geryon z Peronowki N/N
Laudaj Girios dvasia N/N
Bite Pilkoji Girios dvasia N/N
Baziliskas Girios dvasia N/N
Elwen Girios dvasia N/DM
Body Vlci demon N/N
Kangee Girios dvasia N/N
Kenro Girios dvasia N/N
El Saygo Girios Dvasia N/DM
Walkiria Girios Dvasia N/N
Eshu Girios Dvasia N/N
Blezdinga Girios Dvasia N/DM
Staugűnas Sidabrinis vilkas N/DM
Larikin Girios Dvasia N/N

Thanks very much for ALL the results !!!

:gent

Regards / Mikael

Caltoo Waawanyanka N/N

Cara Mela Waawanyanka N/N

Emba von der Wolsfranch N/N

Z´Escila Lupus Ibericus N/N and all liter z is N/N because Amore mio is N/N

Enor Maly Bisterec N/DM

How many wolfdogs developed this illnes? This is the cuestion

Arimminum Last Navarre N/N
Arimminum Bahira N/N
Arimminum Krimhilde N/N
Arimminum Asha N/N
Arimminum Blaze of Glory N/N
Arimminum Amarok N/N

Litter Arimminum "O" N/N
(Ambra Vlci Nadeje + Eligo z Peronowki)

D'JUNE des plaines de l'est

Degenerative Myelopathy - PCR
Result: Genotype: N/DM


Pituitary Dwarfism / Genetischer Nachweis auf Zwergenwuchs - PCR
N/N

My girls:
Kalaratri z Peronówki N/DM
Clair de Lune Srdcervac N/N

:)

More from Finland..

Golden Eye De La Louve Blanche

Degenerative Myelopathy - PCR
Result: Genotype: N/N

Jenny

Dream of Darkness Srdcerváč N/N
Dingo Srdcerváč N/DM

Alien Srdcerváč N/N
Benjamin Ben Srdcerváč N/N

Xí od Úhoště N/N

Eyota du Clos des Guerriers

Dégénative Myélopathy - PCR
Résult: Genotype: N/N

Krásna Malý Bysterec N/N

Here are the results received directly from Daniela this day
( Oral and not blood takings)

Rambo Crying Wolf : DM/DM
Sibir Crying Wolf : DM/DM

Drooz de la Mollynière de Lo'Scale : N/DM
Forest de la Mollynière de Lo'Scale : N/DM

Ceci clôture l'ensemble de mes chiens, qui sont donc tous testés MD

Pity about the DM/DM results. Hope both will be healthy anyway...

Results received yesterday: £ycko z Peronowki said Shiro: N/DM

Yes it's a pity how you say !

3 dogs of the same breeding and every 3 DM / DM ! :(

Lorry - if they are otherwise excellent, I might consider them for breeding with N/N partners. But maybe only later, in 6-7 years, so that you know that they are not affected badly. But only if they are really excellent.

Watch the DM/DM (A/A) dogs' diets, too. They're finding dogs that have been fed foods that list a 'fat" in at least one of the first 3 ingredients tend to develop symptoms sooner and at a higher rate.

Can you post the source to this?

Let me see if I can find it, my wife said she came across the article while looking up bloat a few months ago.

Edit: I've done quite a bit of searching and I can't find it but I did find some things that make me **NEVER** want to use canned food again.

Owner of Hero wants publicate:
Hero od Úhoště N/N

Buck II Od Úhoště N/N

Dolga Maly Bysterec N/N
Arimminum Timber Wolf N/N
Arimminum Mike Zakk Wylde N/N

You must be really happy, Sarka - your kennel results are great :)

DI' Woody Wolf de la Mollyniere de lo' Scale: N/N

More DM test results Click HERE

Linky no worky, Mijke. Perhaps this?

http://www.wolfdog-healthinfo.org/me...DM_results.pdf

Nice sheet but it can be a little hard to find the data. Have you tried Excel (you can use Open Office?). If that is your document, perhaps I could try to make one in Excel if you can't?

Mijke's link worked fine for me! :)

He got sneaky and fixed it before anyone else clicked it. ;)

No, I am not sneaky and I did not change anything!!! :o
But now I did change and this is the new link :click HERE

And for the format in this pdf (instead of Excel) I have several reasons ;-)

Y-Hati od Úhoště N/N

Gunner Malý Bysterec N/N

Owner of Bengie wants publicate:
Bengie II Od Úhoště N/N

Hanka super, but others result You publish or not? Very interesing to know too. You have soo much litter and only a few dogs are tested?

Hi Daiva, I answered you on rossian forum. Why you ask me once again? Do you must attack somebody again and again?
If you can see, I write here only results what ask me owners of my pups. Results of MY dogs ARE NOT your problem.....

:) hmm strange antswer from breeder, why others published all results and DM/DM but You not can.

ok thanks - russian forum not all people read.:twisted:

Other breders are not my problem, I don´t care about strange people. But if it is your hobby......
I can, of course. But I don´t want. Especially if exist people which care to much about other people.
I don´t want know results of your dogs, so let me live too, please.
Thank you.

but why You afray published??
hmm strange antswer breeding commisions member when not interesing in breed statistic :)
Thanks You for antswer this very help to puppy owners too.

Maybe first have good info and later attack somebody. To my publishing is you NOTHING.

this same You are for my :) I have info and moore like You think :) not wory
but realy who You afray, if not want oficial published results?
I understand when people with DM/DM not want published results, or.. this same problem exist and in this case?

I tested 400 dogs now. Many of them not published. But owners and breeders can work with them and that's important. Please don´t attack between himself :roll:

daiva, i also can't understand why do you attack hanka. all breeders are different - some care more about health and selection, some care more about money or anything else... leave her :lol::lol::lol::lol: or you are jelous? then sell your pups for 1500 eur too, it's not forbidden to, even to non-fci kennels for crazy russians which don't ask about health tests :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

ok :) I
want VERY thanks to You Daniela for this who You make.
all lithuanian dog be tested ( i hope all) and this we can make only with Your help.

like it:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

do it, you live close to moscow :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

The result of our work can not be a reason to attack. If this situation happens again, we stop testing (dogs from abroad). Please you think about it ...

I understand and please, forgive my this posts.
Thanks Daniela for patiente

Thank you.

Siggi Od Uhoste : N/N

Also very pleased to note that the scope of the 9 puppies from Siggi Od Uhoste (Litter 2009 of Vom Keschla), all were tested, and 8 are also
N / N, as their father !

Thank you to all owners who have agreed to "play the game "

Hanka also happy for:))

Doàn des Plaines de l'Est N/N

Few minuts ago I received DM test results of the rest of your pack... :)

Botis z Peronowki N/N
Jaud Malý Bysterec N/N
Ibona Radov dvor N/N

So now all our dogs have been tested...
On our pages we publish also information about ALL test results which were made by our owners.... WE do not publish only the good results :rock_3 - NOTHING is hidden....

Yesterday I received this results of my dogs:

Ituborys girios dvasia N/N

Murad crying wolf N/N

Thanks You very much :) and congrats :)

Felon Eden severu: N/N
Areia Sotis: N/N
Clif Sotis: N/N
Desire Sotis: N/N

With the permission of the owners:
Anteia Sotis: N/N
Cessie Sotis: N/N
Cir Cleo Sotis: N/N
Corina Sotis: N/N
Dero Sotis: N/DM
Ecco Sotis: N/N
Eiko Sotis: N/N
Ellis Sotis: N/N

Forever Wolf Arctic Fantasy DM: N/N

Darwen de la Louve Blanche : N/DM

Carr Malý Bysterec N/N

I´ll be glad if the owners of dogs with clinical symptons of DM (tested or nontested) afford the blood or buccal swab samples. We´re making research about DM and it will be very helpful.
Daniela Čílová
CULS in Prague
[email protected]

I may o though this thread and put all the dogs posted in a database and try to look at family lines.

DM-Results D-Litter
(mating Altraz vom Dreiburgenblick DM N/N, ZW N/N and Chunami from Bandits World DM N/DM, ZW N/N)
Delphi from Bandit´s World N/N
Dunbar from Bandit´s World N/N
Djumana from Bandit´s World N/DM
Dynamite from Bandit´s World N/N

I was looking at the results' list of the official webpage and I wonder, who sent the samples of Iran to make the DM tests? :lol:
I also think he is DM/N but I hadn't time yet to even talk with Daniela about the possibilitie of send the samples of my dogs to make the tests.

Is it possible someone made an assumption based on his offspring? I am being lazy and haven't looked at the list just now.:p

But, for instance was he bred to a female N/N, and they made puppies who were both N/N and DM/N? According to DNA rules by many places, it is ok to make this assumption without a test.

yes : Jolly z Molu and Harmonia Eden severu are NN
Jolly have puppy with Iran DM/N ( who are tested) Harmonia have two NN, and Ibona Radov dvor are too NN.

Yes, I think so, but if's this who add is being unfair with my dogs! why only Iran? We also know in this way that Jezebeth is DM/N because Jolly is N/N and Baron DM/DM. :p
I will only wonder about Mona (which can be DM/N or N/N as her brother is N/N) and Oskar.
If we start to put the results like that Mijke will need to add a new classification at the list. ;)

yes exactly - maybe better make news signs like "this dogs can be this when hes - parents/child - are this or this N?