i know when and where the parents of all my dogs where bred why would i need dna test, i have proof of brix biss de louba tars breeding, i trust the person who was present and was witness, all our dogs are health checked, if we thought that the dogs we got from europe were not correct we wouldnt have bought them, all our dogs originated from europe, you must now ask corrie keizer, rob de jagger ,koos and letty de graff and Annie montines for you are asking me are there lines correct,, the litter i bred from koos and letys stud dog give me an excellent litter and i have no need to question there breedings or there lines, so why have you?? nor have i any need to question the von rijnecker hof lines, so what is wrong with these lines i need to know? also if there is anything wrong with the lines from Annie montines? all our stock came from europe if you know of a problem please contact the breeders youself, as i said before we have no problems in u.k. with our breedings,,,and i would not insult any friends in europe to send proof of there breeding via dna to me, i trust these breeders, do you really think that koos and lety would have let me use there stud dog had they not known my bitch was correct? they are very respectable breeders and good friends, and i trust them 100%,,, i am sorry i can not answer your questions on my breedings, the breeders in europe who i get my dogs from you must mail them and ask for dna test, as for me i am happy and trust them, i know the parents of brix but to keep you happy please contact corrie keizer for dna test WE WILL PAY FOR ALL VET BILLS, what more can we do to help you? send the vet bill to
mr r winder cwcuk
station farm
station road
kent
tn262dg
england..
we at the czechoslovakian wolfdog club uk are very greatful for people like you who are concerned with dogs we have bought and used from europe and now we wait in anticapation on the dna results for brix bis de louba tar
the club will also pay for any other dna test you wish done on any of our dogs from europe or dogs we have used, if the money is required up front please send amount and details and we will do immediate transfer, thank you regards mr r winder on behalf of the CWC u.k

hi, as you can see we have asked nanouk to contact the breeders of our founder stock and stud dogs to ask for dna tests, our club will pay for all vet bills, what more can we do to help, we trust the people in europe, who bred our dogs, we trust the people whos stud dogs we use, we used one dog who carried the de louba tar affix but is bred from dogs not of de louba tar lines, we trust the person present at matting which produced brix, we health test all our dogs, we now have premission from local councils to keep our dogs with no licence ////,, that has taken 6 yrs, we keep record of all breedings so when breed gets recognition we can have kc pedigrees, we keep photos of matings and for the benifit of NANOUK we dna all dogs,, just Nanouk never asked , but we dont need to tell all we do, when my bitch was mated in Holland Koos filled in all the proper forms and registered the mating even though the pups where born in uk. it was still done correct, for the benifit of Nanouk tomorrow i will put copy of uk kennel club registration for my first litter, it was not the clubs fault our dogs where removed as many keep reminding us about in there arrogant mails, sad some people still think its funny,,,,, so now our club give Nanouk the oppertunity to get dna tests on all dogs we bought from and used from europe, our club pays for it all, then no one has any need to question our dogs, further more any time we decide to get or use dog from europe we will of coarse give Nanouk oppertunity to get dna for us and again we pay for all, what more can our club do to help, best regards paul

hi i know where brix came from and i know he is from the dog and bitch on his pedigree, but to keep you and others happy we ask nanouk to get dna test on brix who is at de louba tar kennels our club will pay for all, we know what went on at the de louba tar kennels, hence i used brix,,, we await results, paul

Hi Paul,

Do you test your breeding dogs for HD?
I couln'd find any HD results here on wolfdog.org which got me a little bit curious.

The reason why i'm asking is that my dog Shadow has HD-D rating which is not that great as you can imagine, and when i look at his breeding lines i see the name Brix Bis de Louba Tar come popping up.

well, i am flattered that you use and remeber my name!
But i don't know why I should arrange dna testings?

I asked a simple q following on one of your statements.. (as a remimder, this one: It is good to know you are doing dna testing. puzzles my why you had to make such a fuss around it, or was that all a scheme just to get your shot at getting back at a closed topic!
If you want dna testing done on dogs, you can if you have doubts, go the official way by contacting the kennelclub, which you , with all your experience should have known, and not via a privat person like myself, who is not even involved in breedclubs or anything!

Furthermore, i don't see the need of mentioning other breeders,when a q is directed to you, i did not insinuate anything, certainly did not judge your breeding, cause i have never been at your kennels or have seen your dogs other than in pictures and stoeries deliverd by others and certainly, unlike some others, won't spread unbased rumours !! What i personally do frown apon is breeding dogs without official FCI papers, same as the promise that those dogs will one day will be registered.. But that is MHO

Well that at least is an answer. Paul you yourself set doubts about Louba Tar breeding in this forum. You yourself suggested that Cory Keizer is not a trustworthy person. You can´t expect people to believe you on one side and don´t ask for your own Louba Tar used in breeding. There is absolutely no reason to feel insulted.

Ina

hi all our breeding dogs are tested for h/d ,they have eye test Every year is required in uk, we hip score at 2yrs of age, the dog is mature by then, some people hip score younger but our club decided 1 yr or 18 mths is not old enough, all test results can be sent if required, paul

people adding comments to this thread also have no h/d test results on wolfdog.org, all breeding dogs in u.k are h/d and eye tested. as are the stud dogs we use in europe.. paul

how can a dog in uk have FCI papers?? as you stated we should do things as in europe, the dog brix bis de louba tar is in europe as are his parents, so our club asked you to help, as you told us that our h/d test results dont mean anything in europe, would are dna tests? i dont agree with people cross breeding saarloos but they do and the offspring have FCI PAPERWORK, so its not hard to get things past breed clubs or Fci in europe,,

Amazing reaction, Paul. I used nothing else but your own words: "I can assure you all my Czech puppies in UK are very safe and well out of harms the sas couldn´t find them.....as for unexpected surprises.....for fear of persecution from Defra the puppies have all been moved to secret locations....." (see www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=690 ).

Lost their mother too soon, hidden from Defra - proper socialisation of puppies indeed.

It´s not my fault when you forget your own words. - For me: end of discussion.

Angelika

looks like you missed info at some stage, this was a while ago, czechoslovakian wollfdogs have been excepted by local councils in u.k. for many months nows, you look after your dogs in Germany and leave the uk dogs to our club, funny all the arogant mails arrive from Germany, thank god its end of discussion, we get all this for what, because we wanted wolfdogs in u.k, they are here and here to stay with or without any help from you or people like you, END

hi i think you have been in hibernation for a while, we made it public 9 mths ago that local councils had excepted the cws in u.k, the mail you are talking about was in 2004, its 2007 HELLO any body there? Lynx Legend there mother was killed in tragic accident but thanks for bringing it up again, but what else would one expect from you, you have two dogs and know it all, here endeth the lesson MANDY Winder, very pis..off

Looks like the Winder family think that they and their friends in Europe are the only ones who know what is right voor the TSW!!??

Very arrogant people in my opinion:roll:

About being on a high horse, I don't think there are horses that big :)

Regards,

Bert

mr van straten you are a friend of a good friend of mine so i will not write the reply your mail merits, you are as everyone entitled to your opinion, you can say as you like to me its not a problem, but my family is a different matter.

You should see the PMs some people here recieved just for asking normal questions :evil: .
Wasted time anyway...

Ina

Pacino's Kennel
 

hi i have been reading these posts, we kept three of our pups from last litter two bitchs and one dog, of coarse czechoslovakian wolfdogs are little terrors thats what makes them more fun than normal type dogs, i think a lot of problems are comming from owners, possibly not enough time for pup or pups, my husband spends so many hours with the pups, he even sleeps with them a few nights when they are young, he plays as they like it very ruff,, he will spend time with all the pups playing then after few hours they will calm down, this is when he will spend about 10 minutes with each pup training them, one at a time, pups together are always up to mischief, its there nature, its the fun of owning wolfdogs, if you can not cope inform breeder its there responsability for the welfare of there pups, so Malgor as it is obvious you can not cope with the pups i suggest you return them to breeder before these pups are beyond training, forget about yourself and wanting to own a wolfdog if you think anything about the dogs do them a favour they have a life to live as well as you but they need help quickly, this is why we have only bred 2 litters in 6 yrs, its hard to get the correct type of people for this breed, often people will tell you all you want to hear as they have read up a bit on this breed, but lots of people tell porkies to get a pup.we have owned big dogs, had difficult breeds,,, no these are czechoslovakian wolfdogs and are completely different , and are the best breed of dog we have ever owned, mother nature herself with a bit of dog in there,,,,,, please contact us at [email protected] we will give you help and advice but you must at all times be completely honest with any questions we ask , my husband is due home on friday please contact him, regards mrs m winder

Quote:

Originally Posted by solowolf (Bericht 126094) so Malgor as it is obvious you can not cope with the pups i suggest you return them to breeder before these pups are beyond training,

Hmm... That's rather presumptuous of you, is it not? Actually, I have a fair bit of experience with dogs, large and small, and I was simply pointing out that people (including previous posters) were not exaggerating the difficulties of bringing up these dogs. Yes, I *am* having problems with them, and they *are* turning all my expectations of training upside down - but to say that it is "obvious you can not cope" is (to be polite about it) presumptuous and arrogant. I am coping fine, thank you very much.

You know, I am repeatedly amazed on this forum that people who shout so loud about wanting to advance the breed (as all owners should), are so keen to attack newcomers - especially if those newcomers need some help. I simply wanted to know what worked for other people, to see if some of the answers could make life easier for me and my pups, and help the original poster - but I guess that was too much to ask. I guess the elitist csv 'experts' don't want anyone else to have one, since the general advice seems to be 'take them back, you can't handle them!'

Why, also, are you, Mrs Winder, so quick to assume that I am selfish?

Quote:

Originally Posted by solowolf (Bericht 126094) forget about yourself and wanting to own a wolfdog if you think anything about the dogs do them a favour they have a life to live as well as you but they need help quickly

Perhaps you are afflicted by feelings of superiority, but I honestly wanted to get CSV's to help the breed grow in this country, and hopefully get them recognised by the KC. My, my, how selfish of me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by solowolf (Bericht 126094) often people will tell you all you want to hear as they have read up a bit on this breed, but lots of people tell porkies to get a pup

Actually, no, I don't think I will. I have, in fact, already spoken to your husband, and it was he who directed me to the breeder - a fact which I appreciate. However, after speaking to him before, I was struck that he often puts himself across very poorly on forums, when in fact he is a very knowledgeable and pleasant chap on the phone. That said, having now been the focus of one 'solowolf's posts, I doubt I will deal with either of you again. Respect is hard to gain, but very easy to lose - and implying that I am a liar is a quick and easy way to do it. On that note, it is worth mentioning that it is the breeders responsibility to vet potential owners of their puppies.

For those who may be interested, our two puppies are now doing fairly well, and have started to settle in a bit better to training - though the dog is still a little on the dense side :)

Neesk, if you are still about (and repeated calls to give up haven't forced you to do so), I hope you are doing well with your pups. Feel free to PM or mail me, if you want, and I can tell you more about how I am coping with my 2+ a toddler.

-Malgor

you are very witty, lets just see how you cope, remember we and others have seen these dogs put to sleep because they did not get correct upbringing, you will learn more when these pups start to mature and loose respect, you mail worries a lot of people who are concerned for your dogs, people that have seen the results and dogs having to be destroyed. these are not ordinary dogs and dont ever think you can treat them as such you will loose, i think Andre wants to speak to you urgent why do you not answer the phone to her ?.m.winder

uk pups back with breeder
 

hi i have just returned from holland last night i read the post by Malgor,,, just to let you all know, people from the club drove 900kl last night and picked the pups up, so they are now back with the breeder, we can all make mistakes homing pups but just to let you know in uk, we put it correct as soon as we learn about it, Andre is a very reasponsable breeder and has now got pups back, they have been vet checked this morning and are fine, the injuries Malgor talked about when he got the pups must have healed up super fast as no sign of lump on nose or lip were evident at vet check, as i said none of us are perfect we do on occasions make mistakes and Andre and the club have learnt from this one, but we did correct it very quickly, thank you for all your concern about the puppies regards mr r winder.
have to log in on my wifes pass as mine is not working yet again LOL ...