Sorry Guys, but you haven't convinced me. The argument that something is OK because other people do it is not valid for me: having been an academic teacher for many years in Poland and in the UK, I'd heard it ever so often! :D Neither the benefits for the breed PR appeal to me - but this is probably just a matter of priorities! (Per Olav, I understand your detremination in the breed promotion and will help you with the webpage if only you wish, despite my doubts. :) )

Besides, I want to stress, that my views are not the views of all Polish people as opposed to Czech or Norwegian, but my own, personal opinions. I can assure you that you can find all sorts of articles in Polish magazines which does not mean that everything that's written or shown in them is accepted by everybody. Mirka, do Czech journalists really believe that people have the same attitude to something just because it was published? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink: (This is just a joke, of course, so take no offence)

One more question to Ela: I've read somewhere that dogs that were trained for defense are formally not allowed to work in dogotherapy. Is that true? Because I remember seeing photos of Amber being defense trained. Or am I mistaken? I know that Amber is exceptionally amicable and sweet, but wasn't that a formal obstacle towards his certification?

This is just a plain question asked out of curiosity, so don't treat it as an attack on Ela, please. 8)

Honestly, most of Czech journalist cares only to write about things, that will make people buy their newspapers or magazines! And many of them will adapt the real story to make it sound better (or worse) just to make it more interesting. What they themselves believe, is not relevant at all.
But I think this is the case for many journalist in every country.

Believe it or not, this not the way I write. But that´s another story.

Oh and just like you Rona, what I say here is only my personal opinion and my personal experiences. Of course different people can have different opinions on the thing.

I strongly believe, with many foolish obstacles for the breed in Norway, UK, USA etc. we should only support any kind of good propagation for the breed. Not to make it popular like labradors, but to show they are no wolf-hybrids, but normal dog breed able to work in all kinds of situations.

My frustration it relatet to the fact the Norwegian ban of the csv as a breed, despite the favourable information from among others the Slovakian club of breeders, was based on accusations communicated from our Ministry of Justice to our Government mentioning the breed as a dangerous one and hardly to handle by man. I'll suppose it's in the interest of the breed to show our new Government that the ban of the csv was based on desinformation provided by individuals having specific interest of having the breed banned ?
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Per Olav

It is true. But he wasn't train to defence. Several times he took part in an execices which could be a beginning to defence training but we didin't develope this.
Except of it - he worked with childrean 3 months, now Beti is working. I wrote it on my page - Amber will not be used any more. It is too big stress for him.

To conclude the above discussion I think it would be fair to write only about the first attempts to train CzW for dogotheraphy, not that they are already in in, because this may be misleading: CSVs have not proved to be good therpists yet, though of course they might in the future if people like Ela, Mijke or Daniel (Andariel Wolf's owner) put a lot of effort and heart into it.

Per Olav, I really understand your frustration at the ban of CSVs but remember that handicapped kids are sometimes unpredictable, they may hit, bite, scratch, pinch etc. the dog and he must be fantastically well trained and socialised in order NOT to react instinctively. I have a friend who is a therapist (not dogotherpist, though) and she told me that during the sessions sometimes things happen in fractions of seconds and however well she controls the situation she cannot fully anticipate the reactions of kids.

If only one stupid guy hurts only one handicapped kid by offering him only one unqualified dogotherapy session with a CSV, it would be an additional serious argument AGAINST the breed and may spoil the work and efforts of many people. Imagine the uproar in the media and all the "catchy" headlines about wild wolfish beast that attacked poor, sick kids, not to mention the feelings and reactions of the parents. In such a case nobody would mention the fact that the kid first "attacted" the dog! These are simply very, very serious and sensitive matters, especially that they involve the element of unpredicatbility of both sides: the kids and dogs.

Personally I'd rather concentrate on the CSVs' versatilty as companions and friends of people of various ages, professions and lifesyles, as well as friends of other animals and NOT ONLY their working abilities, however great they might be.

Hi Rona. I do fully agree with your conclusion. Until the usability of the csv as therapy dogs are proven it's better de-emphasizing on the subject. However I think it's worth mentioning?
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Per Olav

Sure! :bigok

Hi Rona,

I would never take any risk with dogs and kids or probelmatic youth. I agree with your conclusion because not everyone knows what is his dog like (in Holland there are even frightened CsW)

But..... when people have experience with (even "probelmatic" dogs) for years, I can say they can judge a bit :cheesy:

And then I can tell you even a CsW is able to do such a difficult work! :D
So I think Per can tell everyone that also a CsW is a normal dogbreed who can also do such things :D

But like all other breeds also in the CsW breed not every dog is the good type to show this :D :roll:


Mijke

Mijke, I full agree with you. See my post from April 20th:
Though I suppose there are probably breeds that are better predisposed for this particular type of jobs, which Ela mentioned earlier.

CSV breed was initially "created" for working in tough conditions, for running, tracking, searching for people etc. I suppose they have such abilities/skills in their "blood". But that doesn't mean that that they cannot do any other "jobs" which other dogs can. It's just the matter of how, where and by whom they've been brought up. :D

I don't know how many certified therapy dogs we'll find in my country, if any at all - but I suppose working with children with different disabilities requires dogs with an excelent character and temper. I suppose that's why we don't see a large number of trained and certified therapy dogs?

Therefore I must admit that even thinking of the csv as a therapy dog will astonish those who was in favour of banning the csv i Norway as well as our legislative authoryties. The first one will certainly refuse any allegation of the possibility, the second who followed the advice from the ignorant desinforming opponents of the breed will maybe start some rethinking on the subject.

Anyway I'd like to have information of training and usability of the csv as therapy dogs. I'll promise to communicate the information down-to-earth :)

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Per Olav

Of course it's true. We had such situation at our school.
Amber used to touche with his tounge childrean's faces (I don't know English word - lick? :oops: ) and one day a girl bit him at his tounge. It was a terrible pain for him and he jumped 1m high and cry. He didn't make an agrresive thing, but for a long time he was affraid of this girl.
A situation hard to control. Even though we have one adult person for each child.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
He must have a fantastic personality!

I believe that the dogs can feel that childs and "special persons" is "harmless" for they, depending on the personality of her, he will have a different reaction.

Amber IS a very special dog, a real darling! :bussi

My friend, the physiotherapist, almost lost her eye once, when working with a very young spastic kid with ADHD. Of course the little girl had no idea she might hurt the person trying to help her, but the blood and pain were still the same, really hard to bear.

I suppose not many dogs were able to behave like Amber in similar circumstances. Unless they were brought up to such 'work' from puppyhood, and even then it sometimes might be too hard for them. 8)

Today BETI passed an exam (for puppies) to be a theraphy dog!
She got a grade - excellent and was one of the better dog starting in it :)

A few words more about CsV in dogotherapy.
There are two kinds of dogotherapy:
AAA - Animal Assisted Activities
AAT - Animal Assisted Therapy

AAA is more easy, and many CsV with good character and socialization can do it (like Andariel or Mijke dogs).
They can go to schools, camps and more... They can educate people (specialy childrean) and work with people with dogo-fobia. They can visit hospitals and houses of special care.

AAT needs a special selection of dogs, training, exams and a big knowlaged (a person). It is a work of a group of people: a therapist, a doctor, nurse and more... and also a dog.
In AAT we should be very cautious using CsV.
This breed was not creating for this. But it is possible...

Congratulations!!!!!!! :klatsch

Mijke

Congrats from Norway too :cheesy:
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Per Olav

Many congratulations - it is fantastic both for you and Beti!

J.

Exactly!

That make one dog good or bad for this is not the breed, color or size, but the personality of the dog (and the knowledge of the owner too) :D , this is different in all dogs, like in humans, is only, I believe that is impossible find 2 dogs with equal personality, same.. can but equal never.




As I said, this go depend on the personality of the dog, that is only 8)

What you find about this? :mrgreen:

Congratulations!!!


Paula

Great news! Congratulations!!!