[quote=jefta;374826] i find that sad :( i see that as failure as a trainer not as a failure of the breed.

Why?.. If you are supervising your own dog?

[quote=tupacs2legs;374828]Its not so bad :) I want to train her for mayby top 10 of the breed. But in all its not high level :)


p.s high level for me is national or even world championship. Vaiva, Tupac, how much csv complete in national championship in any coutry and any discypline? Not much (any?) for so perfect working breed ;)

you are meant to be supervising your clients dogs ;-)

so the owner will be in the same room the whole time? ime a male wolfdog will need extensive training and watching for at least the first 2.5 years of life to possibly accept the sort of situation this would lead to,csv's are not always accepting of other dogs once they are fully mature ,of course they make friends as young dogs and they tend to keep these relationships throughout..but asking him to accept strange dogs everyday of his life in a fairly confined(indoor) setup could possibly be a challenge (that u may loose)and alot to ask of him..of course there are always exceptions.

Apparently you dreamed of a "nice" CSV :lol: Post 17: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17300

CSVs differ from each other a lot. Some individuals are better with kids, some - with sports, others - with tracking/trailing or guarding, etc.etc. If somebody wants a working champion he/she should get a more specialized, "nice" breed. ;)

I belive CSVs are more like kids in the family. While they're growing the owner should let the dog try various activities and watch which he/she is best at and then develop this particular talent. We found obedience boring, agility too "controlled", tracking OK, but trailing... most fascinating and interesting!

There was a discussion on this topic earlier, but many experienced owners found out that CSVs are best at "real" work activites - searching humans, guarding places, helping their owners in field work of any sort. However seriously taken, sport is always a "mock" activity.

Rona wrote that her Lorka is first not shy csv seen by her trainer. And you where so suprised when I wrote that they are shy...

same times ago I changed my opinion about training for similar to Rona.


just few csv works in reserching and traking. If as guarding dog you understand dog which is barking by gate but run away from figurant-yes they are good guarding dogs... I know much dogs this expiriend owners and my opinion about them is diffrent then owners opinion. I was thinking about it when I wrote that "internet true" is difrent than reality

I did mention that the trainer came from a country where there were very few vlcaks... I suppose this was the true reason of his opinion +
1. the fact that CSV training is much more challenging, time-consuming, and thus costly than of the "nice" breeds that do not 'think' as much as CSVs do.
2. the fact that one cannot easily predict and plan what kind of activity (if any) a vlcak would be happy and willing to do.

Well, I think vlcaks are very trainable, though not necessarily for exams designed for GSD, malinois and other "nice" breeds. 8)

First of all I do not know any CSV owners who would want to train their dogs for national/world championships. You must be the first. We have 400 breeds and mostly people who want sports or training also like other breeds. Admit - the ones who buy wolfdogs are very different from ones, who buy GSD, I have friends in love with GSD or Belgians and I find big differences between them and people having CSV, bull type breeds or hunting dogs. Most people who choose CSV are not so trainable themselves :roll: I myself find training boring and meaningless - I have my perfect dog, who can travel by train or bus, walk with me wherever I want, deal with situations and people - and she is much better in this when some training champions. Why should I want a dog who is good at protection if I am not working in police or army? :roll: Where will I use her ability to sit in one comand while we are walking? What is the use of jumping up the barriers?
In my "most beloved" breeds list come shibas, shikokus, salukis, bullterriers and now dogo argentino is coming to it hardly (because of one very special dog :rock_3) - not belgians, bordercollies, gsd. They are lovely and beautifull, but not the dogs that woulld be happy with me :)

When I got Brukne many dog lovers in Lithuania were totally sure that wolfdogs are "shy, psychically unstable, agressive, untrainable dogs" - but there were two CSV in Lithuania at the moment and people who were talking like that had never seen a wolfdog alive :D They simply decided, that a "wolf-mix" should be like that :D

Very good post, Vaiva! 8) Vlcaks are rational dogs for rational people :lol:

So in concusion csv is good breed for Lisa (obedience and k9) or not?


In Poland this is popular breed now. On every show people can see few csv from diferent lines and breeders. Its not opinion people which have never seen csv before.

I think Lisa will have to judge herself if the breed is for her or not, on the basis of what we've told her and what more she's able to find out about vlcaks. If training a dog for a particular sport is her absolute priority she should probably reconsider her choice, because when buying a CSV pup one has no guarantee he'll grow up to a smart working dog (though he might happen to, if she is lucky).

What opinion? That CSVs are not the best candidates for the top world working champions? I have never met anybody who would claim such a thesis. Have you? :shock:

My little opinion.. I personally think if you have preset sporting goals you'd like to meet with the dog, and if you don't meet those goals you would be very disappointed in the dog, then a CsV is not for you.

If you would like to find a dog in which there are possibilities, and whom you can learn and train together, and be happy with that, then it may be the dog for you..

Well What I think I need to do is meet some wolfdogs and see them for my self. If I end up with one and he/she turns out to not be a good working dog, its not going to make me dislike the dog. I got my gsd for working purposes. she turned out to not have enough confidence there for not being a good working dog, this did not change the way i feel about her. I love her, she is my girl and i wouldn't give her up for anything :). When it comes to training for detection work. The dog needs have no fear of small spaces, dark areas, obstacles etc. and of course high pray/ball drive. Does this sound like a wolfdog?

I suppose this varies from one dog to another.

High ball drive rather not. But there are exceptions ;-)

High food drive :D
Today I wanted to remind Brukne some ring training, but understood I have no treats at all. You know, frozen sprats work just fine for her too :D

Rona, opinion that Lorka is first no shy csv come also to me even that I live 300-400 km from you and we spend time with difrent type od doglovers :)


my beagle hate csv but she loves going on csv meetings-there is so much food which they dont want to eat :)

Hmm, ok, what do we call "shy"?

Your signature pictures don't look like this is true...

and if Shadow were around, there would be NO food lying for your beagle, she is a canine vacuum cleaner :roll:

:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock: