"no, it doesn't mean that they aren't pure, but it means they shouldn't have been bred without slovak club approval" Well if that doesn't mean that they're not pure, then what basis do you have to say that these dogs aren't pure then?

Go back and read. He said the male MAYBE a mix, and he only said that after multiple people who see themselves as all knowing authorities said they weren't pure. If you look at the original posts you'll see he has both listed as pure.

if they have FCI VDH pedigree and all generation back are clear without others dogs, they are CSV. If not sory, only pets, but not can call a pure CSV.

Well obviously every word is too much here as you are not able to understand the point. The maybe should be enough to do a DNA-Profil on parents and if necessary grandparents or grand-grandparents. If you would sell them in Germany and it would be proofed they are not pure you could be sued for fraud. If this is how the CSV-breeding is gonna be founded in Australia, Australia really isn´t ready for it. Just sell them as Australian Wolfdogs and everybody is happy.

Well all dogs are clear in this case. But wait they're not Czechoslocakian Wolfdogs because they're not registered with a particular organisation? I'm sorry but that's complete rubbish.

Alright let's just make things clear. If anyone doesn't understand things here it's you, first you thought my pups were the first generation, secondly you thought I was breeding. You clearly have no clue, whatsoever.

These pups have a pedigree, which shows they are pure. Are you trying to claim the pedigree if fraudulent? Because in Australia if you make claims like that without evidence, YOU could be sued for liable.

To be honest you've being going round in circles, and haven't been making much sense at all. I advise you to think carefully before you respond.

in this case they not are CSV, only CSV type dog, sorry but this is true.
p.s. and IF german oldest breeder speak about problem in this dogs purity I think you mas lissen who they say, and not play "but but I' moore right"

So given your logic, a lion isn't a lion unless its registered. As I said before, you're talking rubbish.

Also "Germans oldest breeder" has not given any proof, so I don't care what he/she says.

not important- you make this who make, when for you is nothing a breed and others people work.
old breeder, judge, people who know better breed like you say who is who, but ... you not want see this. Sad, not moore

"not important- you make this who make, when for you is nothing a breed and others people work. old breeder, judge, people who know better breed like you say who is who, but ... you not want see this. Sad, not moore"

^I'm sorry I have no idea what you're saying. Can you reply in English?

if not want "not understand"

There is no sense in talking with somebody who is convinced he knows everything best and is sure that everybody except him are ignorant/silly. Especially if such a person has vague idea about genetics and no idea of the prinples of breeding ethics/good practice.

There is no sense in wasting time on exchanging arguments with somebody who, though a novice to the breed, does not appreciate the knowledge, experience, expertise and authority of people who spent many years dealing with vlcaks: on judging them, bonitating, breeding, etc.

There is no point in talking to somebody who is arrogant, impolite and lacks willingness to educate himself in what he is talking about.

No wonder people went mute. EOT for me, too.

I'm delighted you're not going to reply. Your above comment is baseless, you've provided nothing to back up your statements.

You say I'm arrogant, but don't explain why.
You say I know little of genetics, yet don't explain why.
You think my dogs aren't pure, yet don't provide any evidence.

Where did I say EVERYBODY is ignorant? I called one person ignorant as they clearly have not being reading anything, they even thought I was a breeder.

Also, I think it's pretty ignorant to say an animal isn't pure because it's not registered with a particular organisation. Yukidomari at least has the intelligence to realise that.

I think it's far more arrogant to think because you have a history with the breed, you can say that someone's dogs aren't pure without backing it up with evidence. And then to insult someone because they question your statement, is just ridiculous.

Do you sell your pups with genetic test results? Because if not, how are we supposed to know that the actual parents are the dogs that you have listed on the papers? How do we know you're not mix breeding?

Call me impolite if you like, but unlike you, I don't make statements without providing evidence. I don't insult people without evidence. As I said, I'm glad you're not replying, you haven't said anything important anyway.

Let me explain why it makes difference under what body a CSW is registered: The current more or less unified compliance of the CSW population with its standard has been achieved throughout many years of work - achieved by education of the breeders and owners and above all, by SELECTION of individuals approved for breeding. Member organisations of FCI were the first and still have been the leading ones in introducing the breeding rules, such as health tests, bonitations, trials and hopefully DNA tests very soon too. Too often the owners of the dogs that were not approved for breeding instead of accepting it as a healthy decision for the breed decided to have their dogs registered elsewhere and cheerfully commence the breeding, with no checks, rules, conditions. I see it as a step back, if not against... That's why dogs with pedigrees either issued outside FCI or unfortunately even by FCI but coming from a questionable kennel are not a choice for a responsible breeder. The conditions for having a CSW approved for breeding are meant for a desired development of the breed and avoiding or even bypassing them usually is fishy...If those pups here in Australia are disexed, most probably it is better. But as a principle, once again, I would love to see CSW introduction in Australia as transparent, positive and with the best potential to become as popular as anywhere else. This is not a personal war against one breeder or one litter, this is a deep concern about the future of this fantastic breed, can' t you really see it?

Hi Sona, yes I understand what you're saying. I know it is very important to establish the breed with dogs from FCI registered breeders, that have been approved for breeding.

Th dogs here in Australia now aren't going to be used to establish the breed. They're just pets. My main argument was that people on this forums have been saying that they're mixes, but they haven't provided proof. Then I've had people call me irresponsible for owning them and accusing me of not caring about the breed.

Also I don't know if you've seen their pedigree. But it's not that bad, there's only a couple of dogs on the fathers side that aren't registered. Definitelely not enough to say that they're not pure, given the non registered dogs have registered parents.
Pedigree- http://www.wolfdog.org/site/dbase/d/14945

ETA: Sorry I was talking to the breeder here.

Well said!

In Australia they are now making breeders liable and yes you ARE a breeder as you have had a litter. New laws mean that say a pup has HD the breeder is now liable and a puppy buyer can take you to court to recieve compensation for medical costs. Having had a pup returned with a ruined elbow I can tell you that her op was quoted at $10,000. If a pup you sell has behavioural issues like aggression yes you can be held partially liable. That could also be a shy pup that hasnt been socialised yet. Im not exaggerating either. People are dropping out of breeding like flies. Talks of all breeders having to undergo backyard and kennel checks. Some states will also fine you for having entire dogs without a permit.

Now I agree totally with what Sonja has said here. You have sold puppies (lets say for a moment they are "pure"). So you have just introduced the breed to Australia. You sold them as pure which if there are parents which are not in the pedigree again you have opened yourself up for a law suit if someone decided they wanted to take you for false advertising. Pure means 100% of the dogs pedigree after closed books is CsW. So lucky you, you have introduced the breed. Have you added to it or damaged it? That should always be a question we ALL ask. breeder or not.

If you want to understand the system better and know what you are required to do dont hesitate to PM me and we can go through it. If you truely dont want to breed one dog must be desexed or what about chemical if your against the actual snip. Your dogs are mature so you do not need to worry about changes in their temp.

What Im wondering is what do YOU want? Im a little confused. I hope though that you will take me up on my offer of some info. They really are changing the laws here to stamp out puppy farms, and BYB. Dont get stung! Even if without a pedigree if you want to breed please take the correct steps. Both parents (regardless of what parents have had done) need the appropriate health tests. A bitch should not be over bred and should have a vet check before any litters. Puppies MUST be vet checked, socialised, microchipped (by law), wormed and should go with a basic puppy kit. Pedigree or not you should be doing this. You should also be careful advertising pure CzWs and the first in Australia if you do not want to be a breeder or making a mark on the breed itself. This is what you did so Sonja has every right to ask what are you contributing. This is the way of the dog world Im afraid and you will have to get used to being held liable.

Sorry replied but missed some earlier posts.

Wolves, thank goodness you at least got a male and female PHEW! Hope you are desexing one though?

Actually while WSS and GSDs select for brown eyes amber is not that uncommon. Nor such a large fault that you wont see it at shows etc.

Yes you can actually see entire litters looking similar whether a mix or not.

I hope your dogs are pure. I really do but the breeder NEEDS to find out. Even just to protect themself since they have advertised as such.

How exciting for you to have some puppies :D You will not be able to tell hips and elbows untill after a certain age and ONLY by x-ray which needs to be sent to specific people to read. Many vets will tell you they can just "tell" or that they can read the x-ray. Thats absolutely bull. They CANNOT! Because Im assuming the parents havent been done (correct me if Im wrong) you really should for peace of mind and you can actually help with severity perhaps if you know its going to happen.

Eyes again a specialist is needed. I think I have the contact details for one in Sydney and they travel to Canberra. I think they suggest you wait till after 12 months for these tests but I will leave that to CzW breeders here to confirm.

You will also get certificates for these and then no one can argue with you ;)

I wish you all the luck with your two and hope you have put in place a solid socialisation plan.

It only takes one dog to snap at someone and its all over the news. That "pure" CzWs are viscious and a call WILL come to ban them.

Then because people couldnt be bothered or wait no one will be able to own them and all the dogs here will be required to either follow DD laws or be PTS. Not just that but in VIC a person has to PROVE their dog isnt a pitbull. Anything that is like a bull breed is being targeted in the most horrible way. They will seize a dog without asking and you will have to provide proof which without papers basically you cant.

PLEASE be responsible!

Also even with lions a zoo wont breed without knowing whats in the DNA (no you cant do that by looking and saying looks like a nice lion). No matter how endangered they wont breed till they see that DNA.

I know a white lion who is just magnificent, beautiful! He will never sire a litter as they SUSPECT he carries back problems. They cant prove it but they will never risk it.

Thats how good responsible breeders work.

One more post I promise!

Do you know the PTS rate for Australia of unwanted dogs?

Yeah.

With eyes I know there are cases of GSDs with amber eyes, but it's rare. I've never seen a WSS with amber eyes, but I'm sure some do. But these cases are few and far between and they're a fault. Most would put it down to weak genetics in that area making the eyes have less pigmentation then they should. But given these cases are so rare, I think it's far more likely the amber eyes in these dogs came from Czw.

Both my male and female were desexed last week, haha. The breeder was responsible and made sure no one bought a pup unless agreeing that they wouldn't breed them with any other dogs, other than another czw if there are more imported in the future.

I think they're pure. The pedigree definitely proves it. But anyone who claims they're not pure, should support that with evidence. And if they have none, then they really should be quite, because if these dogs are proven pure, which I think is a high chance, anyone who claimed they weren't pure, is open to being sued for defamation.

My main point with the lion analogy was to point out that a lion is a lion, it's not a lion because its registered with a particular organisation. It's a lion because of its genetics, and the only way to know that fully, is genetic testing.

Also in answer to your question, the czw here in Aus now definitely haven't damaged anything, I cant speak for the other pups, but I know personally our two dogs create widespread interest in the breed wherever they go.

Its not rare at all. Common and considered a minor fault so a dog with pale eyes can still win first place IF they have more going for them. I can say this first hand. I breed GSDs. Amber eyes is not perfect but construction, temp etc is more important.

I wont say the dogs arent pure BUT I think the breeder really should find out for sure. Especially since they advertised them as pure, not as maybe.

It would really go along way.

I think our definition of a responsible breeder are very different. Im glad you have two puppies you love and you want to speak out on their behalf BUT there is lot to be desired here.

I hope they are just inexperienced. From what I understand quite unprepared. So there is a lot to be done and I really hope they do. I really hope they do the right thing.

No breeding without putting in the effort is simply adding to the number of PTS in this country. No I dont think they are putting in the effort especially with screening potential puppies or taking responsibility for the impact they are having on the breed.

Just putting two dogs together and then selling them for that kind of price with no work is NOT responsible. Telling people they should desex unless putting to another CzW even though these have not been concluded pure is not responsible. Its called "backyard breeding".

So perhaps you can tell me, what tests did he have done and with who? What was his program to produce happy puppies and were they microchipped vet checked, vaccinated and wormed before you recieved them? What age did he sell them and the parents what has been done with these?

What is his goal in breeding?

Any breeder worth their salt can answer these.

Actually given the breeder admitted to a dog possibly being a mix and then advertising as pure is liable. Nothing wrong with anyone saying they could be crosses given this admission. Not only that but I believe on that site they specify people advertise as mixes or pure. One must know for sure their dog is pure. Knowing there is a chance its not is false advertising and the company will pull the ad.

You can "think" they are pure but cannot be said for sure and in this country thats a mix.

Have you ever noticed pounds, RSPCA etc always say cross even when its almost certain its not? Do you know why? Because they have and will be taken to court, bad mouthed etc if it turns out otherwise. Unless an animal has the PROPER papers it is not pure but seen as a BYB or cross.

So again its a REALLY good idea for them to do something. Get the dogs recognised with proper papers, DNA test what ever. Untill then these dogs are unfortunately regarded as crosses.

Wouldnt you love to see your dogs papered? Then you can say without ANY doubt they are pure. No one could argue with you!

Again a small amounst of WSS generations ago to most people would make no difference in looks. Absolutely they could be crosses and if I were you Id listen to those who have so much experience. Yes people can be very defensive of the breed and annoy the heck out of you but you should still be listening.

Why I brought lions back up as yes they are lions (although you may not be able to tell what kind of lions without DNA) but NO zoo would EVER breed UNTILL DNA had been done. No breeder in doubt should EVER breed untill they know for sure. The number one reason being they would want to know the genetic history health wise.

The dogs are pure. As I've said, the pedigree shows it. Genetic testing? Does every other breeder do genetic testing? Why should these dogs have DNA tests, when they've got a pedigree that shows they're pure, just like any other pure czw has. I don't know why you still put "pure" in quotes in reference to these dogs, when they've got a pedigree.

"Im glad you have two puppies you love and you want to speak out on their behalf BUT there is lot to be desired here." What do you mean by that?

The breeder said MAYBE the male was a mix, but that was only to the people on these forums after they'd being saying they were mixes. There is no reason to suggest the male is a mix. I've seen him and he's a beautiful example of the breed.

As I've said time and time again. I'm not going to listen to anyone unless they have proof. I don't care what experience they have without proof they're points are meaningless. It's very arrogant of them to say that someone's dogs aren't pure without proof. They're also setting themselves up well to be sued if these dogs are pure.

I remember when I was getting my pups, I noticed more slanderous talk about them on the DOL forums, where you talked about your wolfdog.

"The people that were breeding them are pretty private about them and dont sell to the public. Basically they used some of the foundation dogs for the CzW but breed for temperament and not looks. Its not a official breed. Czechoslovakian Shepherds was the term they were using. Many years have passed though so I have no idea what they are doing now"

Firstly, "Basically they used some of the foundation dogs for the CzW but breed for temperament and not looks" CzW weren't bred for looks either.

The breeder was very private? That doesn't sound very legitimate to me. Why were they so private? Were they even registered? Did they have pedigrees?

But then again pedigrees to show they're "pure" wouldn't even matter anyway as there is no such thing as a Czechoslovakian Shepherd.

Also from what I can gather you said they were Wolfdogs, but their name was Czechoslovakian Shepherd? A shepherd and a wolfdog are two different things.

Seems to me like nothing but a scam. I wonder what your definition of "responsible breeder" is...

Why dont you answer my questions first?

Second, nice lol. Ok Im not going to give out sensitive information of where my dog came from but yes she is what people refer to as a wolfdog. As in a breed that was a cross of wolf to GSD. They have been breeding for nearly as long as the CzW but for working dogs. You are aware that there is a working dog register here in Australia?

Yes they are very responsible. They have to be. More responsible than most breeders and certainly put in more effort than the breeder of your pups I can assure you. Careful genetic testing was carried out.

You wont find anything about them online by the way. I wouldnt bother. Whether you believe me or not is besides the point. You know there is a term for people who defend their own actions by redirecting. My dog isnt in question. My dog was never bred from EVER. I never claimed her to be anything then what she is. I have her papers that detail everything but no I wont share them with you :)

I dont need to. Im not breeding.

If you would like to ask about the GSDs I do breed go ahead.

Slander LOL. You keep throwing that around but you cant take some one to court over repeating what you said publicly. The breeder said they COULD be crosses. The breeder said that and has not said otherwise. So yes they could be pure but they may not be.

I think you have 0 understanding of breeding. Or of the sheer number of dogs PTS every single day. One stat says 20, 000 animals. A responsible person cares about where the pups end up. A responsible person cares about the dogs they breed and the suffering an animal can go through because of genetic disorders.

Yeah you should listen because all you have demonstrated so far is that you dont care where they came from only that you got what YOU wanted NOW. Your dogs do not have papers. You cannot say they are CzWs for sure. Only cross. Thats what happens when you rush and put your desires above the dogs you claim to love. No better than buying a pup in a pet shop.

If the dogs are pedigree where are the papers? From what I understand there are non.

There is alot to be desired and I suggest you go read DOL a bit more. I dare you to go there and ask the same question LOL. Ive tried to be nice to you but what ever :)

It's ravens spirit in Germany that can sue as they've been publically accused of fraud and mixing by some people on this thread WITHOUT EVIDENCE.

My dogs don't have papers? Yes they do. How would you know anyway. The info has even been posted onto the wolfdog database.

Also your so called "wolfdog"/"czechoslovakian shepherd" is nothing but deception. I'm experienced with these so called Czech shepherds, all they are is German shepherds, probably being exported out of Czech Republic or Slovakia. I don't know how you think they have foundation Czw stock in them, were breeders of them supposed to have gotten the stock from the military? If its not lies it wouldn't be so private. There is nothing "top secret" about dog breeding unless you're trying to hide something.

I find it very arrogant of you to constantly question me. When I've provided photos, I've provided links to the pedigree and explained myself. You however claim to have owned some possible mix or just normal German shepherd, called it a wolfdog, said the name was a czechoslovakian shepherd (which doesn't even exist) and then won't even show pictures, or tell any information about them because its "private". Well making it so very "private" seems like a good way to not let people know about yours or the breeders lies.

Also I understand you enquired about owning one of these Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs and it never went through? I guess the breeder was just selecting for responsible owners.

Simply because this thread is about CzWs and breeding them in Australia. I do not have one or have any to breed.

You havent answered a single question of mine.

What you have as I understand it is a printed out pedigree created on the computer of the breeder? Yes or no?

Do you have the ACTUAL papers. Not peices of paper. Because there are non registered here. So your puppies cannot have pedigree papers. I would geniunely like to know if the the parents do. Honestly Id like to but considering neither you or the breeder have shown this I dont know what you expect people to think?

I never said she was a Czech German Shepherd. They are just a particular line of GSD - who you may not know this but they too were actually called Alsation wolfdog im Australia lol. So even if she was just a GSD yes I could call her a wolfdog and be correct lol. I have always said I loved my beautiful wolfdog (RIP) and that I wanted a papered CzW. Because they are SIMILAR to her and the closest I will ever get to anything like her. I am doing the right thing. Are you?

When did you ask for a photo?

What does my dog have to do with breeding CzWs in Australia???

Ive been nothing but co-operative with your questions how about you be a bit forthcoming and honest and try the same.

Actually I never asked for a pup. I emailed some questions that were of course ignored.

Also a number of people called to enquire because they were interested and the only questions the breeder asked were about money. Then they sent me messages asking if it was legit since that was claimed. I said actually there is doubt.

So called Czech Shepherds LMAO. ROFL.

You would know I emailed the breeder I said so myself on DOL. I also emailed when they contacted ME about the litter.

Here is my email:

Hi XXXX

Thank you for letting me know about your litter.

Id like to ask you a couple of questions.

What health tests have the parents had?

Are the parents available to view?

Also what screening process are you using for puppy buyers?

Do you have both bitches and dogs available?

Will they be desexed or not?

Sorry to be upfront but its important information before buying a pup.

Regards.

As you can see I never asked for a pup. Had he bothered to reply and give reasonable answers that is what I would have told people. People who may have wanted a pup. However no one that asked me bothered because his behaviour screams BYB. Im glad they didnt either.

There is no such thing as a Czechoslocakian Shepherd, end of story. I know German Shepherds were at one point called Alsation Wolfdogs. But a German Shepherd is now more correctly a dog as there is no recent wolf heritage in them, well not as recent as CzW anyway.

I haven't asked for photos, but I saw people on the forums have asked multiple times and you never produced them. Again, seems fishy. But why are you so private? What are you hiding?

I'm simply bringing this up as you quite obviously are liening or making out you owned something that was related to Czw, when its wasn't. If you're going to do that, atleast don't call them a Czechoslocakian Shepherd, when Czechoslocakian Shepherds are known to be what misleading breeders call they're German shepherds that were born in former Czechoslovakia. You claim they have czw in them, which is most likely lies, not only because I know what Czechoslocakian Shepherds are, but because there is no record of the military supplying czw stock to breeders, so they could basically breed them back to German Shepherds thus basically creating German shepherds again.

Also regarding the email you sent to the breeder, if I'd been him I would of ignored you as well. You asked if the pups would be desexed! obviously you know nothing about the breed, the best time to bring home a pup is 8 weeks, as this is when they are at a good age to leave their parents and settle in to a new family. If they leave later than that, you'll have all sorts of fitting in problems. We got our male at 8 weeks and our female at 4 months and I can tell you now, if we hadn't already had our male there, she would not of fitted in well at all, atleast not In the short term. So to suggest that the breeder has the pups desexed before 8 weeks clearly shows how ignorant and irresponsible you are. Good thing you were ignored.

ROFL. So basically Im reading "I cant answer any questions of your so I will attack your dog even though you are not breeding her and not relevant to this discussion at all but I need desperately to redirect".

If you knew anything about breeding you would know SOME breeders do desex before 8 weeks so it is absolutely important to establish this before enquiring after a pup. Non of my dogs have been desexed at 8 weeks and you pointing the finger only shows how desperate you are.

You could at least enquire what my point of view is before accusing me of it LOL.

I bet you are Mystic. Funny they only joined after I joined in here and thats the only post.

Oh and your wrong I have posted photos of her on DOL and my FB. Perhaps you ought to get some kind of facts.

I have been upfront about my dog.

I see no point discussing her further. Me owning her has nothing to do with this breeder in the slightest. STAY ON TOPIC!!! Im allowed to own different breeds by the way :roll:

I still hope the actual breeder comes on here and clears things up. Id still like to believe its just all some sort of misunderstanding and they do infact care. You are only making me believe everyone else here is right and something not quite right is going on here.

Oh and incase anyone is actually interested MY DOG LOOKS NOTHING LIKE A CZW AND IT WAS ONLY THE SIMILARITY IN BEHAVIOUR THAT IM LOOKING FOR.

SHE IS NOT A CZW OR A CROSS OF.

THE DOGS THAT WERE USED WERE FAR REMOVED AND OTHER BREEDS USED.

THEY WERE BRED TO WORK WORK WORK AND BE INDEPENDANT ENOUGH IN PARTICULAR SITUTIONS.

ITS A ONE OFF THAT I GOT HER AND I WILL NOT DEFAME THE PERSON WHO GOT HER TO ME SO YOU WILL NEVER GET ANY MORE THAN THAT FROM ME.

SHE IS NOT A GSD.

Hope that clears it all up for everyone not that its relevant. I simply was looking for a dog like her years ago and the CzW is the closest (which makes sense) to her personality which is why I would like one.

I have zero interest in cross breds. I do not care what the dog looks like. Its the temp. Im after.

The fact you even needed to ask if they would be desexed shows complete ignorance. No responsible vet would desex a pup before 8 weeks. Even EAD which is normally between 8-12 weeks is a very rare practise in private clinics, and it should be taken with great caution.

I'm not breeding either, yet you ask questions. Stop using that as an excuse. You can see the pedigree of my dogs, lets see the pedigree of yours. Post the pedigree and the photos as an attachment if you have nothing to hide.

Also forget about the whole "they have csv foundation stock in them", CZECHOSLOCAKIAN SHEPHERDS ARE NOTHING BUT AN INCORRECT TERM FOR GERMAN SHEPHERDS. Like I said, there is no record of the military giving csv stock to breeders so they can breed them back to German Shepherds. So unless you can prove that, it looks like your lying.

You ask questions about my Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs? I'll ask questions about your German shepherd who you liked to call a wolfdog. If there was something not quite right going on here, you'd get me saying "I'm not telling you any information, it's private. I won't defame the breeder." But clearly I'm not trying to hide anything like you.

We have history with breeding, showing and animal welfare. Everything the breeder did was proper. However expirience tells me any breeder that's very private and demands owners to not tell any information about their dogs, is not a reputable breeder.

*The questions of yours that I've ignored, are stupid questions. You asked me what the PTS rate is currently for dogs in Australia, how is that relevant to me?

No. You want to discuss my dog start a thread. Your redirection isnt going to work here anymore.

Frankly I dont care if you think Im lying.

Do your dogs have FCI pedigree certificate? Do the parents?

Oh and I worked in the animal industry for many years. Vets absoultely will desex at 8 weeks.

Yes your are right in that I personally think its not good for large breeds to be desexed before 12 months. However its considered a personal view. There is plenty of arguements for and against.

So you my friend are incorrect. Vets will desex at 8 weeks. Many registered breeders choose to do this. Not me so I like to ask.

You lied on the DOL forums, you said there was a fair amount of doubt with both dogs. If you bothered to see the name of the the female, you'd she was Spirit of the Wolf. Which is FCI registered, and is one of Germany's most well known Czechoslovakian Wolfdog breeders. Are you accusing Spirit of the Wolf of mix breeding?

Secondly, there are only 2 dogs that aren't registered on the males pedigree (all dogs on the females are) but those 2 dogs have registered parents. So there is definitelely no issues of purity as far as the pedigree is concerned.

I'm still waiting for the photos and pedigree of your German Shepherd. :rock_3

No. You want to discuss my dog start a thread. Your redirection isnt going to work here anymore.

Frankly I dont care if you think Im lying.

Do your dogs have FCI pedigree certificate? Do the parents?

Haha, I see you've decided to ignore the fact that you openly lied. Claiming that Spirit of the Wolf are in doubt.

Why don't you ask some of the Czech or Slovak czw breeders what they think of your "Czechoslovakian Shepherd"?

If she ever existed, by the way you're acting (refusing to show photos and papers) suggests you made it all up.

You want to see registrations, check the wolfdog database, the fact you even need to ask that question, clearly shows you haven't even bothered search them on the database.

Ive asked you a question.

No. You want to discuss my dog start a thread. Your redirection isnt going to work here anymore.

Frankly I dont care if you think Im lying.

Do your dogs have FCI pedigree certificate? Do the parents?

Last time I looked the sire and therefore your dogs are listed as possible crosses.

Once again I see you've decided to ignore the fact you lied. I also see you've reverted to being immature and repeating your exact same comment, completely ignoring the fact that you can see registrations on the database.

The sire was not registered, neither was one of his parents but after that, all are registered. If you'd looked you would of seen VDH numbers. Seriously how do you think a dog is a mix, when both parents are registered?

I simply brought up your dog to show the credibility of someone like you, who's questioning my dog. But if you want me to create a separate thread for it, I'll do it, what should I call it? Ligerwolve2's "Czechoslovakian Shepherd"?

What do you mean "both" parents are registered but then both sire and grandsire are non registered?

Sorry you lose me here.

You brought up my dog to redirect. My dogs and myself have nothing to do with you, the breeder and the dogs involved. I find it quite amusing you have reduced yourself to the level of personal attacks because I dared to ask questions. I think its something you will have to get used to.

I wouldnt get angry about it. You have two dogs you love dont you? So why not be happy and honest and just explain? You will never get people to look at them as pedigree without papers. Pure ... maybe. I think that depends on the information offered.

Like I actually said on DOL I dont know the dogs involved only quoted other people more in the know. I said I was not sure what the truth is. The only thing you can accuse me of is not liking the lack of information coming from the breeder.

How many of us would be suspicious of a breeder who would not answer questions? Rings alarm bells for me and Ive said as much ALWAYS adding that its purely my opinion and without further information I cant say more.

If you would like I will go back there right now and clarify using the information you gave me that the bitch is FCI registered but the male is not and therefore all pups are not. Happy to do it. Im happy to pass on anything else you would like too. Infact why dont you go and introduce yourself?

I dont know why you want to drag up my dog. If I was trying to buy a pup sure there would be grounds to ask how much experience I have. If I was talking about what CzW are like from my experience....well I havent own one yet and freely admit as such. Ive only ever talked about what my dog was like for me. I never bred her, showed her or anything else that requires me to prove anything. If I did breed her Id expect people to ask.

You can start what ever topic you like. Thats between you and the Mods.

When I say both parents, im not refering to my dogs. I'm referring to Esaya, who was the first non registered dog in the pedigree, but both her parents were registered. Now I'm fully aware that many in the purebred world would classify a dog as a cross, just because it's not registered, even if both the parents are. But genetically that's false, and as far as I'm concerned it's stupid. From a genetic point of view, pure breeding has nothing to do registering, some people need to understand that.

Name calling? I've haven't said anything without reason. Bringing up your dogs wasn't a distraction. I'm within my rights to question you, when you've constantly being questioning me.

Now originally I was debating the purity of my dogs. You've come and tried to change the subject to the practises of their breeder. As I've said, everything was done properly. But if you would like to ask the breeder go ahead, don't ask me because I don't care. My dogs are fit, healthy and happy and that's what matters to me in the end of the day, not wether the breeder was registered with the FCI or not. I came back to post some pics, give my reasons for them being pure and prove some people's ignorant (i feel like i have to use that word a lot here) speculations wrong.

I was joking about creating the thread, I don't have the time nor the concern to. But I don't understand why you're so private about it. I've already given my reasons to why they're is no such thing as a Czechoslovakian Shepherd, so lets leave it there.

Thats your reasoning. Fully understandable. The reason people who are passionate about dogs will be skeptical like myself is that when there is no registration the breeder themself has filled in the pedigree and thats all there is. No outside unbiased body. So someone who is dodgey would say yes they are pure when infact they did not register the litter is the sire was a different dog.

I know this isnt perfect. I know there are other ways to register and keep pure lines BUT when someone does it, questions are raised.

You have made personal attacks, you did not need to do when exlaining your reasons would have sufficed. Im questioning this litter and its parents as I think the truth here is important. Lay the card out on the table and let people make informed choices. Your questioning of my dog is off topic.

My first post was to the breeder and I think I made that clear. I question you about your dogs because like it or not you are an ambassador to the breed. I think its something you are going to find happens alot. Will you question every person the way you have me if they ask you some of the basic questions.

I have also questioned the way the breed is being introduced here. Im passionate about the breed and want whats best so yes I will question.

Photos give us a clue not proof of anything. To have proof you need one of two things neither of which you are interested in. Which is fine, you just wanted pets. The breeder I still think would be best to think about this if they want to continue to have more litters.


The only thing really clear is that the male and pups are not registered. I personally would like some more information. Why were the original dogs not registered. What was the breeders reasoning?

What is the breeder of these pups doing? Will they be breeding more? Are they being ethical? Is this damaging for the breed here?

I just honestly want to know what is going on. No judgements. I just would like to have that information.

YOU dont have to answer my questions. Other people are allowed to speak up. Besides I do not think you have any interest in my last few questions BUT you could give your exerience with them.

I would like to know why people think the breeder uses a cross?

Thats your opinion. You can have it. Its not mine, nor the people who work with them, nor that of the people who have met her.

Going back and reading over my first posts I think I was nothing but polite to you and said a few times I was not saying if they were pure or not.

However there is a question I asked that I am genuinely ineterested in. IF you would answer of your own experience, please.

Were you shown or recieved copies of the health tests recommended for the breed, from the parents?

Im not asking to insult you or anyone else Id just like to know.

We know that from betrayed puppybuyers and from advertisements the breeder made herself:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...+spirit&page=2
http://www.dhd24.com/archiv/index.ph...t=raven+spirit

I am sorry it is on German but I don´t have the time to translate and I am not responsible for the dogs anyway.
She sold a lot of people dogs as purebreds that weren´t and she seems to have made a crossing between daughter and father as well.
Even IF the male is from the Dünnerntal ancestor , Dünnerntal belongs to Roland Homberger who has been thrown out of the German Kennelclub long time ago, shows up every now and then and dissapears again owing money and abandoning dogs. The Dünnerntal ancestor was born by a mother that has been bred in the age of 10 month. This is one of the very few things that are likely to be true. Shortly after Homberger dissapeared again leaving a very young women with a very small child and a lot of not very well fed dogs of doubtfull but not purebred origin.

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...land+homberger

IF this puppy found it´s way to Raven Spirit and IF it is the mother of the dog, they might be purebred but from parents without healthtests. And as the only other dog with prooven origin anybody knows of Raven Spirit owned, is one male of Spirit of the Wolf (called by her Fenris) that was used for every litter we know also that the mothers are mixed and as written before we know this from puppybuyers that have been there.

Fact is, that neither Raven Spirit nor vom Dünnernthal can be trusted with anything nor did they undergo any controles by officials, but by themself have advertised mixes with TWHs several times.

So no responsible breeder would use them as a founding stock for a breed newly introduced in a country.

Ina

Ina, you've allowed the possibility that they're pure. Now from what you're saying, the Dunnernthal breeder may not be very reputable. But that's not any evidence to say that my dogs aren't pure, and so far no one has provided evidence, everyone's opinions have just been based on speculations about the breeder.

I just like to point out that Czw here in Australia aren't being used to establish the breed. The breeder probably isn't going to be breeding again. But what these czw have done, is develope a wide interest and admiration in the breed. I even know people who are now considering importing czws, as they can no longer buy any in Australia. The most damaging thing to the breed in Australia, has been the attitudes on this thread, rather than any constructive comments, it has been an attack on the Australian breeder. I'm very greatful for the expense that the Australian breeder has gone to, to bring these beautiful dogs here, and I'm disappointed in the unfair criticism on these forums.

As I said the intention wasn't to establish the breed here, I'd like to remind you it would be impossible to establish a breed fully in a new country with only one breeding pair. But what has been done is establish wonderful ambassadors for the breed, for when people do import and establish a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog kennel here.


Ligerwolve, you appear to be forgetting who started this thread. I did.
The title is Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs Australia. It is in no way related to my dogs in particular, I started this thread long before they were born. Therefore my dogs aren't the point of discussion of this thread, sorry I decided the point of discussion here, not you.

You claim to of owned a "wolfdog" that has "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog" in it and called her a "Czechoslovakian Shepherd". Given my title, your dog is most definitely able to be questioned here. Where's the papers? Where's the photos? Where's the genetic test results? I want to see the proof of Czw in them.

Sorry, your attempts to deflect my questions won't work here anymore.

But also equally (if not more?) possibility that they're not?

Look, I don't live in Australia, I don't even breed, and since you say your pair is sterilized anyway, it really doesn't matter, but logically speaking when reading this interesting thread, how can they be 'wonderful ambassadors' for the breed when it seems likely the dogs were irresponsibly bred, recorded, and only may (or may not) be purebred?

By the way, the correct translation of vlciak is not wolfdog.

The important thing is that you can never say if the dog is pure or not as both Raven Spirit and Homberger have lied more than said the truth in the past. And have very often sold mixes as pures. Fact is you will never know as describing them as being not very reputable does only show that you are not able to understand the point of breeding.
To be an ambassador for that breed it would at least have to be a member of the breed and we all can only hope that future importers and breeders care more about where to get their dogs from and aren´t ambassadored in do it the same way.

It´s useless to continue this discussion as you are not able to understand what several people tried to explain. I can only hope that people that got interested and might have a look here learn out of it not to buy the first dog available and ask some of the very important questions about papers, health and kennel controls and not in the least breeding lines. In this way this thread can be of great benefit.

Ina

"By the way, the correct translation of vlciak is not wolfdog." What does that have to do with this conversation?

You have clearly misunderstood what I've been saying.
"Fact is you will never know as describing them as being not very reputable does only show that you are not able to understand the point of breeding." I was trying to be reasonable and see your point of view, I don't see how you're trying to use that against me....?

Yukidomari, how are the dogs irresponsibly bred, ligerwolve has been saying that without evidence and she clearly has no credibility what so ever. The breeder of my pups wouldn't even talk to her.

Registration is a piece of paper, if the dog is purebred, it's a czechoslovakian wolfdog, registered or not. I understand that the FCI attempts to control breeding, but just because a breeder is not registered does not mean they're not responsible by any means. There is no evidence to suggest my dogs aren't pure, MOST LIKELY they are pure, and are the only ones in Australia. They have received nothing but admiration from members of the public and have sparked a lot of interest in the breed. That surely would qualify them as excellent ambassadors. They are representing the breed here wether you like or not.

Again I will say. You're making claims without evidence. I don't know if you understand here, every argument you've put forward is based on gossip and hearsay. There is no evidence, we have a pedigree that shows they're pure, are you claiming that is fraudulent? Let me remind you that in many countries, especially Australia, if you make claims like that without evidence, you could prosecuted for defamation.

Actually, I wasn't referencing Ligrewolves' comments at all. I was actually talking about the links that Michael and Ina Eichhorn posted about the Dünnerntal dog & others which don't seem to be responsibly bred at all.. And actually, yes, non-registration of a litter does to a certain extent mean a breeder is not responsible, since most purebred dogs are not existing in nature (excluding some, very few landrace breeds of which Czechoslovakian Vlcaks are not) - they are bred by humans and exist only because of that, and accurate record keeping is paramount to their preservation.

And, if a breeder doesn't care about that, then I can hardly call them responsible.

I was originally talking about wether my dogs were pure or not. I was not talking about the responsibility of breeding. However I will say that organisations are merely a bureaucracy that attempts to control breeding but can not guarantee that breeders registered with them are breeding responsibly.

My credability is just fine thanks :) Oh and actually that breeder did speak to me, and other people up untill health tests were brought up.

She isnt a CzW so nope :) Why dont you try worrying about your credability.

As far as I can see there is enough to "suggest" they are crosses. Especially since the breeder HIMSELF said so about the male. Which in turn means yours. If you wanted "pure" CzWs you should have waited and done some research.

If no health tests have been done the chance of illness is much much higher. If that happens how can they possibly be "wonderful ambassadors"? Yes they will stir up interest. Which is why the best examples would have been better. Healthy, good temp dogs would get alot more attention. If they end up in shelters it will actually go against them. Thats why its wise to be careful who you sell to.

I actually think you know very little of what goes on with registered dogs. You dont just send off for a peice of paper :lol:

No you're credibility isn't fine, and the fact you think it is, is quite hilarious to be honest. Firstly you claimed the mother of my dogs was in doubt, which means you made no effort at all to check the pedigree, even though it's been up there for years now.

YOU CLAIM YOUR DOG HAD CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOG IN IT, which you thought gave you the right to call her a wolfdog, but it's a complete lie anyway and you know it. It's my thread, I'll ask whatever questions I like. You don't decide what's talked about and what isn't talked about here.

YOUR ATTEMPTS TO DEFLECT MY QUESTIONS WON'T WORK HERE ANYMORE.

"Healthy, good temp dogs would get alot more attention" So you've seen my dogs and know about their health and temperament do you? You have absolutely no clue about my dogs. Thanks for showing your ignorance again. See I don't make insults without reason, anyone just needs to go back and read what you've said to see fine examples of someone who arrogant, ignorant and immature. Stop trying to sound as if you know what you're talking about, it's not doing any good for your "credibility".

Sorry I forgot to thank you for posting that. I will be having a good read when I get the chance.

Wolves you can harp on all you like Im not explaining my dog anymore to you.

My credability is fine :) Im a registered breeder and worked in the animal industry a long time. Im afraid that although your opinion is not good I do just fine thanks :lol:

I asked you if your dogs parents had any health tests done. You didnt answer but I do know that your pups are too young at this time to have proper gradings done.

Also Id really like it if you stopped putting words in my mouth. I said a while ago that the "parents" were in question. I never said that either dog was a cross only that there was speculation. Which at the time there was talk on here of the "parents" not being pure. You like to leave out the bit where I said that I just had warning bells going off for me and that people should do their own digging. I also went back later and said it was the sire and grandsire. So you have no case there Im afraid but good luck :roll:

:lol: You can rant all you like but you cant force me to discuss anything. Perhaps if you were polite Id be inclined. What a breeder thinks is between them and me. Id happily link them to the variety of photos if they wanted. I would show them papers if they needed. However I would assume they would treat me like any novice since I have not owned a CzW. Anyway thats a long way off and Im not concerned. Any breeders who do come here will probably get a chance to meet me anyway if they exhibit their dogs.

Personally Id like to see the quarantine reduced to 10 days instead of 30 first. Crossing all fingers that happens as it will certainly be better for any dogs arriving here.

I'm not putting words in your mouth and you're lying again. You posted that both dogs were in doubt this year, not once has anyone said this year that the mother was in doubt. Stop trying to cover up the fact you lied.

I don't think the Czw wolfdog community will be interested in your "Czechoslovakian Shepherd" given she never existed. I've already told you that Czechoslovakian Shepherd is a misleading name for German Shepherds from former Czechoslovakia and I'm sure they'll agree with me.

There is no record of czw foundation stock being used to breed back to German Shepherds, and it would be a stupid idea. The main foundation stock would of been in breeding stations at the time!

I know from first hand knowledge what you're saying can't be true. But your continuous attempts to ignore my questions, solidifies my idea that you're lieing. As I said why don't you ask some of the Czech or Slovak breeders what they think of your "Czechoslovakian Shepherd" with "foundation czw" stock in her who looks like a German shepherd, but is called a wolfdog?

Also you said the breeder was FCI registered, what were the dogs registered as when there is no such breed as a Czechoslovakian Shepherd?


Yeah, you're credibility is nothing but a joke. I'd just like to say that everyone here despite what they've said, has managed to present themselves in a mature and adult manner, you on the other hand I have no idea wether I'm arguing with an adult or a 12 year old. If you want to be taken seriously don't start using childish Internet abbreviations such as "LMAO" and "ROFL".

I'm glad you're going to have a good read. Seriously why are you so interested in my dogs and their lines? There are plenty of other dogs in Australia to be interested in. I can understand the other people in the thread, but you're not even affiliated with the breed.

Ive been interested in the breed for over 10 yrs. I was almost at the point of importing before a personal matter stopped me.

I have been passionate about them for a very long time and want them introduced properly. Id like the chance to own and show one but if people dont take care they will just be banned.

Im interested in this litter because people who know my wolfdog thought maybe I might know about these dogs. Some people even know I love the CzW and wanted my take on it. I gathered that one dog was at least unregistered but wanted to see what the breeder would do. I think registered is better but the MOST important thing to me is how the breeder operates. There are ANKC unregistered dogs for example registered with the working dog register. They are just as ethical as the ANKC breeders. They do everything the same almost. So I wouldnt tell people to steer clear of them say if they wanted a top working kelpie. That would actually be the better place to go. So what Im getting at as I reserve judgement. They are open and clear though about what they are. When the breeder wouldnt answer my questions I said as much and directed people to read the threads here and make up there own mind but that I wouldnt. Keep in mind Id prefer a registered animal anyway. Ive got small children (so Im not ready to take on another dog anyway right now) and would want to really be sure of lines. Any kind of suspect is too much for me.

Its my opinion that this isnt the kind of breeder Id recommend (given you wont tell me about your experience) but if they never have another litter it doesnt really matter does it.

Ive worked in the animal industry a long time. You may not want to hear my opinion but I know how quickly these things can snow ball. Im not trying to rain on your parade so to speak. If you were talking about how cute they are, funny things they do Id be in there agreeing. If you asked me a question Id answer it to help you. I think we need more of that in the dog world! However I think you miss the point some of us have tried to make and Im not sure its worth explaining again. A closed mind is a closed mind.


I dont mind answering any reasonable questions but Im growing tired of personal attacks. Im not a liar, thats just your opinion. Like Ive said Im not going to discuss my dog anymore. You are not interested in my dog at all. You dont have any first hand knowledge of my dog or her breed. How can you when you have never met one or met my dog.

"Yeah, you're credibility is nothing but a joke. I'd just like to say that everyone here despite what they've said, has managed to present themselves in a mature and adult manner, you on the other hand I have no idea wether I'm arguing with an adult or a 12 year old. If you want to be taken seriously don't start using childish Internet abbreviations such as "LMAO" and "ROFL". " - Seriously? Honestly I dont know what your point is. There are a number of members here that do exactly the same. You never bother to point that out. Oh thats right I asked if you knew of any health tests. Ahhhh I see totally means you can be insulting. :)

Anyway. Unless you are interested in actually offering some info - even just telling us what good experiences you have had with the breeder or the breed, Im going to stop replying. I dont see the point of it.

I still wish you all the best with your two.

I've mentioned many times we were satisfied with the breeder. My family were registered purebred breeders for decades, vaccinated, registered and health checked and we did our best to ensure they went to the best possible homes. Also had best in show winners. We've also been involved in animal welfare, in conjunction with the local vet and newspaper, we had a program where we would re home lost and abandoned dogs. So don't try and make out that we're not experienced.

The breeder stopped talking to you, therefore it's not my place to discuss it with you. Perhaps if you were on better terms, you could try asking the breeder again? I doubt it would get anywhere given the unjust remarks you said about them since.

"Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:14 PM
I wouldnt trust this breeder at all. There is a fair amount of doubt with both dogs." - Now not once this year did anyone say the mother was in doubt, as you can see, I showed you posted it at sep,2012. The pedigree, showing the female is spirit of the wolf has been up for years now. So ok, you may not of directly lied. But you made that statement because of what people falsely said years ago before the pedigree was known. I wouldn't trust anyone who doesn't bother to check their facts before they attempt to defame someone.

You aren't in a position to judge the health and temperament of my dogs, you know nothing about them and never will. But given the way you talked about your "wolfdog" eating your TV, there seems to be something strange and dangerous going on there. I was expecting my dogs to be hard, but they're intelligent and learn extremely quickly. Not hard dogs to own at all...maybe that's just my dogs in particular. They're not as devoted to working for you as a GSD, they get bored and will do there own thing after a while, but teaching them is easy.


"Im not trying to rain on your parade so to speak" Ha, what are you even on about?



"You dont have any first hand knowledge of my dog or her breed. How can you when you have never met one or met my dog. " I don't claim to have first hand knowledge of your dog, like you do with mine. But I know that Czechoslovakian Shepherds are German Shepherds. As for her breed, I know a lot about German Shepherds, so yes I do know about the breed.

It's funny how you think this breeder was registered, when they hadn't even bothered to get the breed recognised here in Australia. Probably because its impossible to register a non existent breed.


Like I said ask anyone here what they think of your dog, and they'll most likely agree with me.

Here are some more quotes. My last reply on DOL - Incase anyone is interested its been confirmed (as you can read for yourselves) that the sire and grandsire are non registered which given there has been crosses out of that kennel before is a bit suspicious.

I will leave you all to make up your own minds :)

And here is one from you - The sire was not registered, neither was one of his parents but after that, all are registered. If you'd looked you would of seen VDH numbers. Seriously how do you think a dog is a mix, when both parents are registered?

- When I say both parents, im not refering to my dogs.

So you can use the term parents in a general manner but you use it as some kind of evidence else where?

Here is another from you - I would hope that in the case of the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, that owners would be required to have some kind of permit. Many people buy them for their looks, and although they have done research, they don't realise how much of a challenge the dog is untill they buy one.

I recently got a Wildlife Permit, as I intend to own a dingo in the future, it's a free permit. Just I had to build a large enclosure and demonstrate that I know a lot about dingoes in order to recieve it.

I don't think they will put a permit when it comes to owning dogs like the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog in Australia, as they're a domestic dog unlike the dingo. But it really would help, as they're not like a normal dog.

But the first step is actually getting the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog recognised here....

Thats an interesting read dont you think. So your dogs are so easy but here you talk about how people should have to have a permit?

The last line made me laugh. Or should I say LOL.

Here is another quote by you which says you dont understand breeding very well - These pups have a pedigree, which shows they are pure.

Its not like a breeder has it on their computer and edits it themself or anything...

bla bla bla bla bla

Very fine, but I´m really sorry, Ligerwolve2 and Wolves.

I think, everyone else here is really bored.

Cheers and bye
Angelika

You also said earlier your dogs had been looked at already so were fine, yet an experienced person would know to wait to they are mature enough to test.

Amber eyes are rare in GSDs? Yeah again I think you have had little to do with them.

You think a dog teething in dangerous? Now that made me laugh. She was 5 months and had a chance to chew something up SCARY!!!

So its ok for you to say you did xyz but give no name, you wont say if YOUR dogs parents were health tested (which most people would be happy to say that so its very fishy you wont). However you want me to share every single detail of ONE of my dogs.

AND YOU are in no better boat to judge my dog. Since you know nothing about her - which you have said yourself.

Your now bringing up points about my dog Ive already covered - go back and read if your interested.

Yeah you are right Angelika - and so am I! I dont think there will ever be any clear answers coming. So Im going to go sit on my hands :)

"I'm going to stop replying. I don't see the point of it"...obviously you're not confident enough to stand by your word.

Firstly you're showing your ignorance again. The grandsire is Aragon Spirit of the Wolf, and is most definitelely registered. Even now you clearly haven't seen the pedigree. Stop making statements without checking first.

From doing research into the breed, I had the impression czws would be a challenging breed to own, but now I own them, my first hand expirience tells me differently. Although I am an expirienced dog owner. Also I was saying they would need to be recognised here before you could consider anything such as permits. Please improve your comprehension skills before trying to pick me out on points like that.

You say your dog ate a TV! I'm not saying your dog is dangerous, I'm saying you're a dangerous owner. No responsible owner would allow their dog to eat electronic equipment. She could of choked on something, or worse been electrocuted.

I know what a Czechoslovakian Shepherd is. So I know you're a liar. You still haven't mentioned why the breeder didn't attempt to have them recognised here by the way..

My dogs regularly go to the vets. For their age they're very healthy.



You haven't answered one thing about your dog. You haven't even shown pictures.


Yes I do understand breeding. Maybe you don't understand English. The pedigree shows they're pure, you cannot argue with that. Now unless you have evidence that the pedigree is fraudulent, then they're pure. Where's your evidence, because right now...what you're doing looks a lot like defamation.

You need to apologise for the multiple false claims you've made.

Loooooooooooooooooool I´won´t .

Please, wolves, SHOW us your FCI papers.


Cheers
Angelika

I never claimed to have FCI papers.

I don't make false claims, unlike some people here. Why don't you ask ligerwolve to show FCI papers?

Sorry, Sona. My post was not meant to sound like an attack and I certainly was not looking for a quarrel (whatever came afterwards.......). I just wanted to point out that I'm sure that there are SOME people here who can be fantastic responsible breeders. I guess the internet can make things sound out of the contecxt they were meant in.

You make some excellent points that I did not think of. I in no way condone the representing of the breed with dogs that have murky lineage, however lovely that animal is. And we certainly do not want to frighten people with this scary new "hybrid" (I can see that occuring if not enough care is taken).

I truly respect your opinion and experience. Most of us here are babys when it come to CzW's so all thoughts, opinions and experience simply must be considered.

An he has yet another litter looking for homes. However he says now both parents have papers? Don't suppose anyone can clear that up? Would be great news if he now had hold of proper papers at least.

Although I have heard he still hasn't bothered to health test his dogs.

CZW Wanted
 

Hi there, This is my first time here. I am looking to get two Czech Wolfdogs here in Australia. Can anyone help?

Hi there QLDphil. I would suggest you do a bit of stalking on here and find a reputable breeder to import from. Quarantine starts at only 10 days now which is so much better for importing but its still a costly affair. Have you ever imported before?

Woolfdog Australia
 

Hi there,

No I haven't imported a dog before, I heard it was horrifically expensive. Do you have any breeders you recommend? Also do you know what the likely cost is? I had heard that you can't get them till they are over 9 mths old?

I would suggest you do some stalking on here to find a breeder you click with. Just be extremely careful. Lots of shady people ready to take advantage of you.

Its been a while since I did the sums. They have shortened quarantine times but increased the daily amount. Last I looked into it you would expect to pay between $10 - 14,000. It could be cheaper now.

If memory serves me its around 6 months of age before they can leave. they need shots and blood tests etc. Then flights etc. plus the minimum 10 days quarantine.

So as you can see you would want to be really sure you are getting the best.

Sorry I cant be more helpful. If I remember I will pop up some links for you when I'm next online for quarantine information.

Found some info for you. http://www.agriculture.gov.au/biosec...ne-faciltities

Thank you
 

Thank you for all the information, very helpful.

No worries :) Always happy to help. Plus it was hard to find a starting point years ago when I was trying to find information.