Breeders in Australia?

[ligerwolve]

Hello everyone, Im new here too and have also been looking at this breed for a few years now. I live in Australia so its safe to say there are no breeders here. I would like to know any information thats relavent aswell and I would like to ask the dreaded question, What price would a person be looking at to purchase a CW dog. I dont ask because there's a limit to what I would pay for such a beautiful animal but because I might have to do some more saving Its hard to talk to breeders overseas as they are warry of people who might not be suitable owners.

[Angelika]

Hello Heather,

I think you have to ask Margo and Pavel what kind of dog Kaiya is. Letty and Pacino too should know more because they are breeders. I am only a layman so I cannot answer this. But anyway she is very handsome.

Regards
Angelika

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by ligerwolve

Hello everyone, Im new here too and have also been looking at this breed for a few years now. I live in Australia so its safe to say there are no breeders here. I would like to know any information thats relavent aswell and I would like to ask the dreaded question, What price would a person be looking at to purchase a CW dog. I dont ask because there's a limit to what I would pay for such a beautiful animal but because I might have to do some more saving Its hard to talk to breeders overseas as they are warry of people who might not be suitable owners.

The prices normally are between 600 and 1500 Euros, depending on which country the breeder lives in. In Germany they are about 1000 Euros. But for you there will be some money added to this because you live overseas and your country has a quarantine regulation. And as far as I know not every kind of animal is allowed to be imported to Australia, there are some dogbreeds that are not allowed to enter the country at all.
I wouldn´t have problems with sending a dog to a country overseas when I know enough about the person who gets the dog. But I wouldn´t send a dog for 6 month into a quarantine kennel, especially not a wolfdog and definitly no puppy. The dog would live the first part of it´s life under circumstances that are horrible for every dog, even adult ones from less sensible breeds and you wouldn´t be a very happy owner with such a dog.

Regards Ina

[ligerwolve]

Thankyou Ina that wa really helpful, Im so glad I registered. I am looking into "puppy passports" which I think would be best but not all countries are part of this program. I have already spoken to the authorities about importing and as long as the animal is 5 generations removed from a pure wolf then that is ok. I own a Czech shepherd already and I think everyone here knows that life isnt the same without a wolf dogs constant companionship. My dog is unfortunately getting old and having a "natural" type dog helps me with my work. I am studying to be an animal behaviourist and my passion is the language of dogs and wolves. My dog is my missing link so to speak, so any information on anything relivant is very important to me. Thankyou.

[slarman]

Hi Ligerwolve,
I'm also in Australia and have a deep interest in importing some CzW's here.However,you must first obtain a license from the Dept.of Natural Resources and Environment,in order to do this you must first provide the Scientific name of the breed(which I am trying to getfrom the FCI),you must provide evidence that the dog(s) are no less than 6 generations from a pure wolf(they are identified on the pedigree).I have spoken to the dept.of nre and they see no problems YET.Also,you must get a permit from Aust.Quarantine Inspection Services and have all the blood works approved.Now a word of caution-the RSPCA will try and stop you,as will the gov't.Wolfdogs are considered a dangerous dog,but are not illegal to import as long as you can satisfy ALL legal requirements.BE AWARE that the type people who will want one of your pups MAY want them for illegal purposes and may not treat them well.Also be aware that the KCC here may not allow you to register them and nor might your council and if the council has any doubts may seize your dog and destroy it even though it hasn't committed any sin.
[email protected]

[Ori]

Hello Ligerwolve!
I am not a breeder but I know wolfdogs are much more cheaper in our part of Europe. So it is about 400 - 500 euros. So mayby it is worth to import a puppy from Poland or from Czech. But mayby you will have less problems if you take it from Germany, France....
buy
Ela

[Koos]

Hello Ligerwolve,

About a month ago, there was the same discussion about the prices for puppy's in the West part of Europe and the East part. Of course the puppy's in the East part are lower in price then in the West part because of the living standard is also lower then in the West part of Europe. And not only the living standard. What, do you think about veterinarian costs, pedigree costs,(her in Holland over Euro 50 pro puppy) chipping cost are exra, and then I don't speak about raising costs for the puppy's. I think, that is for every breeder the same. That costs a lot of money. There is a big difference between West Europe puppy's and East Europe puppy's.
And what Ela wrote is true but we here in West Europe, don't earn a lot of puppy's, so we are not the big survivers in this case.
About shipping a puppy into Australia, I wrote some time ago, the same solution to another person, which is very interesting in CW's. Mayby you can find it on the forum.
there is a possibility to let the puppy stay at the breeders place for half a year. That means, the puppy can get his Rabies vaccination after 12 weeks, then after a month you can take bloodsamples and these have to send to a special laboratorium. After they give you the results, if the dog is free of Rabies, then he has to stay for half a year.After this time, it can shipped to Australia . So if you can welcome your dog, he/she is about 10 till 12 month old and no puppy anymore.

I hope, I have give you some more information about shipping a dog. If you want, you can buy an older dog, that is a difference of 3 month. Also this dog have to do bloodsamples and stay after the results for half a year at the breeders place.

Many greetings,

letty from Holland

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Ori

Hello Ligerwolve!
I am not a breeder but I know wolfdogs are much more cheaper in our part of Europe. So it is about 400 - 500 euros.

As Letty wrote, this has been discussed before. Apart from the lower costs of living- these are the prices for people that live in those countries, for people from the "western"countries they are higher, sometimes up to 800,-- and higher. What I think is correct, because of the extreme difference in salarys.

Originally Posted by Ori

But mayby you will have less problems if you take it from Germany, France....
buy
Ela

That may be, because there are only a few recommended laboratories for the blood tests, not every country has got one, I don´t know how the situation is in the new EU-countries.
As far as I know, the dog has to go through quarantine in Australia, even with a high enough Antibodytiter.

Ina

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

As Letty wrote, this has been discussed before. Apart from the lower costs of living..(...)

That's right but I also understand Ori. I don't think there are many people even in West Europe which spend so much many for their dog as she for Amber... The prices of living are in PL lower (but not much lower) that in West European countries but if you will count all fees for the training courses, competitions, exams, summer camps, meetings and dog shows (for Slovakia or Litva we pay sometimes even 70 EUR for a dog!), of you will take into consideration that dog food is in Poland is more expensive then in West Europe (for example Eukanuba in in PL 40% more expensive than in Germany) than you will see that the country of living doesn't matter because the prices have nothing to do with expenses... :P

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

these are the prices for people that live in those countries, for people from the "western"countries they are higher, sometimes up to 800,-- and higher. What I think is correct, because of the extreme difference in salarys.

OK, there are differences in salarys. But do you really think if it is correct if the breeder do not ask a the same higher price for all people from abroad but he/she checks how much money you will be able to pay for it? And the price have really nothing to do with quality of the puppy or the breeder but only with you (if you are not good informed about the prices you will pay sometimes 50% more that someone who know the real value of the puppy)?

I also agree with higher prices recommend by the clubs in the origin countries because it stoped the salesmans from Italy and other West European counties which buyed even whole litters. And it was the only reason for the different price for different people. In that time it had nothing to do with differences in the salarys in CZ and EU countries. The only reason were puppy producers which were interested in selling puppies to abroad. That's why the Czech Club decided to do someting with it...

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Margo

OK, there are differences in salarys. But do you really think if it is correct if the breeder do not ask a the same higher price for all people from abroad but he/she checks how much money you will be able to pay for it? And the price have really nothing to do with quality of the puppy or the breeder but only with you (if you are not good informed about the prices you will pay sometimes 50% more that someone who know the real value of the puppy)?

No I don´t think that is correct, it should be the same for all people from abroad. I just think that for a Slowakian person with a avarage salary the 200-300€ they pay for a dog are even more than the 600-800€ Westerneuropeans pay for it. If you look at the prices for good dog food and so on the 300€ are to low but have to be so low because nobody could afford a wolfdog if they would be higher. But for Germans 800€ is a normal to low price for a purebred dog, so I think if they get a good puppy from a good breeder they should pay a normal price for it.
To rise the prices from the Clubs to stop puppytrading was absolutly the right decision.

Regards Ina

[Koos]

I also agree with you all, but it seems to me, that we, here in the West part of Europe ask a price, with is soooo much higher then in the coutries of origine. Of course when you will visit dogshows (normal price in Holland at this moment mimimum Euro 55,--), you want to go to the summercamp and so on, and so on, that cost a lot of money. And also for us.

In the discussion before, I wrote also, that a puppyprice about Euro 500,-- is a lot more for the origine coutries and people then Euro 800-- for West europian people.

When we bought Bacardi Eden Severu 6 years ago, we haven´t any idea what the price of a puppy was. We also paid DM 800,--. So that is in this moment about Euro 400,-- for us. Then that is the same price in this moment in the origine countries now what is mentioned.

And it a good idea that the origine countries, have a price for foreign people coming from the West part of Europe. And that was also 6 years ago the same. So what is the difference???

Greetings

Letty

[Rona]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

No I don´t think that is correct, it should be the same for all people from abroad. I just think that for a Slowakian person with a avarage salary the 200-300€ they pay for a dog are even more than the 600-800€ Westerneuropeans pay for it.

It seems the prices of the Czechs puppies is a very sensitive issue here. However, I don't think much can be done towards rationalising it.
There will always be excellent , avarage and indiffirent breeders, honest and dishonest sellers, conscious and naive buyers, etc. In the market economy a puppy, like anything else , is worth as much as a buyer is ready to pay for it. I'm not saying that this is positive, but as long as there are differences in salaries, prices and living standards in different countries, unification or standardisation of puppy prices would be difficult if not impossible. And even in the future, when economically 'the East meets the West' and the clubs perservere in doing their best- differences will probably exist due to the basic factors - described above....

[slarman]

Hi,
Really the discussion about European prices is not relevant to us in Australia.The exchange rate is though.At the moment one Australian dollar is worth .50 Euros,so when asking about the price we must double it,of course the exchange rate varies day to day.Also,for a dog the size of a CzW,I have been quoted about $3500US,or about $5000Australian to ship from Germany.Lets not forget price of blood tests,which varies,and may have to be repeated,also a dog,regardless of it's test results must undergo a MINIMUM of 30 days Quarantine in Australia,more if required,at a cost of $1000+.BUT we also need a licence from the Gov't to import any dog and a different one for Wolfdogs,which must be at least 6 generations from any pure wolf blood.All up to import a dog from Europe should average $10000(these are my estimates based on more expensive figures).

[Rona]

Originally Posted by slarman

Really the discussion about European prices is not relevant to us in Australia.All up to import a dog from Europe should average $10000(these are my estimates based on more expensive figures).

I understand -under these circumstances $500 one way or another does not make that great difference... Maybe several people interested in importing CzW to Australia could oragnise a joint venture to lower the costs of transportation, medical tests etc.? A kind of discount for a bulk purchase ?

[slarman]

I guess the real discussion about importing CzW's to Australia should focus on whether it should happen at all and the importer is fully aware of the personality of the breed.It's all well and good to want a dog like this but a potential owner should ask every possible question of the breeder,and if the breeder becomes annoyed or can't honestly answer a question,regardless of price or looks,then the buyer shouldNOT buy from them.Also a person should read EVERYTHING about the dog and about wolves,should have experience in training and know how dogs communicate with each other and humans.An owner should also know about problem solving and how to react in situations of aggression,submission and be able to react instantly in these situations AND be prepared to get hurt IF such situations arise.YES I said BE PREPARED TO GET HURT!!! I am a certified Dog trainer,I have been bitten in the most innocent situations and in dangerous situations.I was also a security guard with dog and have had to defend myself and my dog in some tough situations and have been bitten,WHY? Because all dogs are still 75% wild in their brain and react in a kill or be killed way in a threatening circumstance and even though your a dogs owner,if your in a dogs way YOU PAY.I just want people to know the truth,I am NOT implying only wolfdogs are like this,all dogs can be,I'm just saying to fellow Aussies be aware that before you commit to any body that you do your research

[Koos]

Not only the buyer can ask all the questions he want to know, also the breeder has to ask several thinks. And as the answers are not the answers the breeder want to hear, then he can refuse to sell a dog. And in this way there are many questions to ask over and over, because the distance is very long. The breeder cannot go to the buyer. He can only answer the questions from distance but cannot overlook the situation and in which situation the dog handle.
A German Shepherd to import and selling oversea is mostly not a problem. He will accept the new owner mostly in a short time but a CW is another story. It is not a dog for a beginning dogowner and certain not when he is about 10 month - 12 month before he can shipped.
Asking and asking again is the best way and there are NO STUPID questions.

Letty

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by slarman

Really the discussion about European prices is not relevant to us in Australia.

Oh, it is.... Because there is something else behind it. As you wrote: it will be very expensive to import CzW to Australia. So it make no sence to import ordinary, "middle quality" dogs but it is better to buy typical dogs which can be good start for this breed in Australia. By many other breeds it is pretty easy to buy puppies from outstanding litters or puppies of promise - if you pay more you will get better puppy. But not by Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. There are CzW breeders in "West" and "East" Europe. In East Europe the puppies are on average 50% cheaper than in the 'West'. But in many cases there are not worser but even better than more expensive puppies (it is also not surprising because we talk about origin countries).

So the main point is not "buy the puppy in XXX because it is cheaper". But "don't pay attention to the price because it do not garantee anything". The only chance to find good breeder/litter with good puppies is to check their parents, their achivements, show and working results, aso, aso. And Wolfdog.org offers all this information and good overview....

[Mirkawolf]

I completely agree with Margo. There is really big difference between wolfdogs in "the West" and in "the East". And the price is just a little thing, when compared to the quality and characters of the wolfdogs from different places!
If you want a wolfdog just as a companion, then you probably do not care much, from where you get your dog. But if you want to start to breed or get a quality dog, then it would be only normal to search in the countries of origin.
I find it quite normal. If I want quality English bulldog, I probably import one from England. If I want a quality wolfdog (both in look and character, which is very important), I go get it in the countries of origin too, ie Czech Republic or Slovakia.
Myself, I just made over 1400 km to Slovakia to get me puppy from a good litter, because I want to have good wolfdog with excellent character and perspective new breeding female. And the costs all over were pretty much the same as if I would buy puppy in "the West". Just the quality could be very different.
Because wolfdogs are close to wolves, they require proper socialisation and training to grow up in a fine, stable character and self-confident dogs. Part of that work starts already at the kennel and the breeder himself is responsible for a good life start of the puppy. He has to pay lot of attention to the puppies, pet them, play with them etc. And that is possible only if he has time and will to do that. My opinion is, that the kennels that appear more like "puppy factories" with dozens of wolfdogs at their yard, simply can´t do this properly. Ending up with a shy scared puppy is the last thing, you want, since it is lots of troubles, nerves and usually also additional costs (broken things, harmed people or dogs etc).
So I´d suggest, more then to the price, pay your attention to choosing the right kennel and right puppy.

Mirka

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf1

I completely agree with Margo.

Me too. It's better to be a reasonable, conscious buyer who knows the purpose of his purchase and to select an excellent breeder who cares for his puppies and who is an honest seller rather than to economise on relatively small sums of money. Especially in the light of the huge expenses which puppy transport to another continent involves. Besides, Margo is right, the whole venue would make more sense if a few puppies of different sex, genetically versatile were imported. Otherwise, the costs of breeding would be immense? On the other hand, if one just wants a dog-companion, the price for a CzW puppy from Europe would be VERY extravagant