Is the CSV dog right for me???

nask · 19-02-2013, 18:28

Hi All,

Please excuse me if what i am asking is very basic information, this is all very new to me but i would like to make the right choice for me, my family and the dog i am looking for.

First of all i am not looking to buy for at least a year, maybe longer, so i am researching for the time being. From what i have gathered on various on line pages is that this dog can be hard to handle, especially for novices or someone who has not had a dog in the past like me......

I think a lot of this is down to the training and socialisation given to the CSV and my thinking is that as long as you get the CSV as a pup then it will grow with you and become the dog you want it to be. I have always wanted a German Shepherd dog for its intelligence, my friend mentioned a Chez Border dog, and i stumbled upon the GSV and well it was love at first sight

.

I guess id like to know if you guys think i can handle such an animal? i have never owned any dog before, this can be an advantage im told???? u see im quite an active person, so the dog would be with me first thing in the morning for a 30 min jog, then returned to its kennel (which is a large shed outdoors, the shed is approx 20ft in length and 10ft in width) whilst i am at work, my partner would feed it whilst i am at work. Upon returning from work i would take the CSV for a stroll in the park for an hour or so. this would be the routine from Mon - Fri, during the weekends i cycle approx 10k so again the CSV would be with me whilst i cycle as id like to make sure it gets enough exercise. I would change the routes i take as regularly as i can to make sure the CSV does not get bored.

can you guys advise if the environment i have described would be suitable for the CSV or would it require constant attention each day, all day, every day?????

I would appreciate any advise you guys can part with.

Many thanks

Nas

Nebulosa · 19-02-2013, 19:17

First of all I consider that CzW needs an experienced owner.
Newbie owners tend to make several mistakes that would end to be only a bothering situation if you own a small/medium sized dog, but that can be catastrophical if you owns an CzW.

They need an wise and patient owner, one kind that will be able to arrive at his home tired, find his own house with even the windows cracked and smile for the situation, clean, fix it in a way your nice pet will not be able to do it again and dont kill the dog because "it was too late for correction".

Stubborn owner able to maintain a "No" because "No is NO" independent of how nice face your dog is doing.

Experienced enough to know what your dog is thinking much before he do it.

Wolfdogs are extremely intelligent, and it's not a good thing for an experienced owner, much worst for a newbie, they will learn everything fast.. everything you dont want to teach him, like how to open doors, open windows, run away from the kennel, open refrigerator and so on.

Someway we can compare them with cats, they will study your personality and behaviour, they will see your weak points and strong ones, and if you dont pay attention they will use it to manipulate you.

You should never underestimate a CzW, they can do things you consider impossible, that kennel you thought he would never jump, that window you thought he may never brake, he will. And you will get him to not do things you dont want by respect and love, and it will take time.

After adulthood they are the best dogs i've ever had, but till they mature they are like storms in our life, even for an experienced CzW owner, the new pup/young dog will be a challenge.

Perhaps you're willing to try to have a CzW accepting all the problems he will cause to your life and to your goods... but are the people who live with you also willing to it?

Also, I see that you live in UK, you know that there are no behaviourists able to deal with CzW because CzW is a new breed in your country, the same way as find a new owner in case of regret will be hard. You might think of yourself all alone with this dog, yet do you think that without experience, is it a dog for you?

I think you should first get a dog, a normal dog for be your pet and notice how challengeful a normal dog will be for you, later, after having experience with this dog, then think about a more hard breed.

nask · 19-02-2013, 20:19

Hi, thank you for your response, my main concern was the well being of the dog, i wanted to know how often i should take it for a walk????? some peole say they need to go for 6 - 10km walk everyday!!! this i cannot commit to because i am at work on Mon, Tues + Thursday. I dont work on wednesday or friday or the weekend.... so i would make sure it gets the right amount of exercise.. in response to your question about it breaking stuff and me being angry at it, NEVER!!! an animal has its own personality and thats part of the animal, yes it will behave badly like a child does and that is where you MUST be firm with the animal, firm but fair...... Like i said i am researching the dog for at least a year before i even consider getting one... i wnat to learn about the mannerism of wolves as well as the German shepard in the same way as this chap did, i find his blog very helpful.

http://raksa.certik.cz/english-1/first-year

The only other dog i would consider is the German Shepard or the Czech Border dog, again for the intelligence of the dog, its obedience and the fact that they are good with family members.

I guess you will never know about the animal until you get one and as long as you treat it right give it the love that it needs as well as the discipline then you should be ok?

Do you mind if i ask how many dogs you had before you got the CSV? and what you thought were the differences between your previous dogs and this one? the more i research on the magnificent animal the more i love and respect it.......

Tassle · 19-02-2013, 20:37

I am fairly knew to the breed - my boy is a cross, but I am a trainer and have a fair amount of experience with different breeds and types.

Knowing what I do about these dogs, I do not think your home situation sounds best for a dog of this type. Living as an only dog in a Kennel however many days (first post was 5 - second 3)a week could be your first big potential problem. These dogs like company and would not do well (IMHO) left to their own devices in a kennel.

Nebulosa · 19-02-2013, 23:13

I had 4 dogs of my own before I get my first CzW, my first dog was Beagle who died with 10 years, I had a Rottweiler for 9 years and when my wolfdog arrived I had a Beagle with 2 years old and a Buldogue Campeiro with 1,5 years.
I've worked as dog behaviourist for years dealing with what we can call "problematic dogs", with real traumatized animals due bad owners or accidents, I also worked with some of the few wolfdogs (mixes, not CzW) living in my country that time.

Even being an experienced person with dogs I had hard moments with my CzWs, I have them for about 5 years right now, having 6 of them yet I have hard moments with this breed. We can say that each dog is unique, but I can tell you without fear of being wrong that CzW are more.
A dog changes your life but a CzW changes much more, mainly you will not have several options, that you would have with a normal dog, with a CzW. You will travel who will stay with your dog? A normal dog you can let in a dog hotel and a CzW? You cant, there are huge chances of them to jump the fences and run away searching for you.
It's only a simply example of differences, because it extend even to some veterinary procedures, like in anesthesia, sometimes even feeding.

When I talked about house breaking I think you had a quite simplistic view of it, and I dont guilt you for this, people will only believe what CzWs can make after see it with their own eyes, before it all breeders are liers who does not want to sell a pup to someone else trying to make people scared telling mere stories about what a CzW could do in dream world...

but it's not like that, they are real beasts if you dont pay attention, they will not only destruct your shoes, but they will destruct a whole wall or put a door down. They will not only dig the garden, they can make real galleries bellow your house trying to enter. You can take it when they are starting to do it or even when they are studying a way to do such things and avoid problems, as you can simply dont see what's going on and not be able to avoid a tragedy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nask

The only other dog i would consider is the German Shepard or the Czech Border dog, again for the intelligence of the dog, its obedience and the fact that they are good with family members.

And here is when I confirms you're doing the wrong decision even in think about CzW as a possibility of a dog for you.
As I told you, CzW are very intelligent dogs, but it goes exactly in the contrary direction of being obedient. Why the dog would obey you? what is the sense of he make that command you're asking for? what he will win doing that? That's the difference between an inteligent dog and an obedient animal.

Why dont you start with a GSD, and after you get some experience with him, training and living with the dog, then you start to think about CzW, even giving a time for you to know personaly some animals of this breed to really be sure that it's one CzW you wish to live for the next 15 years.
Meet the breed personaly is completely different of only read about it.

tupacs2legs · 20-02-2013, 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassle

left to their own devices in a kennel.

There wouldn't be a kennel! (Shed)

nask · 20-02-2013, 11:50

Hello, i see ur based in london and was wondering how much space you have in your garden for the CSV to roam free? lol yes the shed, made of breeze blocks and not wood + with double glazed windows, its more of a pimped out room then a shed

saschia · 23-02-2013, 18:05

Since the beginning of this thread I found some things I cannot agree with, so I'll touch them before reading further:

1) experienced / inexperienced

Wolfdog was my first dog ever, I got a large and dominant bitch, I was 16.5 when I got her and managed to do defense training, agility and hiking with her without any great difficulties. Yes, she drove me almost crazy sometimes, but I think experience with other dogs may not get you ready. Either you have it in you or you don't and any amount of labs, GSD or other dog breeds will not help you much.

2) kennel and leaving dog alone

They can stand it. Some have bigger problems, some have no problems. You just may not raise it as a companionship junkie, than it will have problems staying alone. My first dog grew up in our yard, sleeping in my bedroom when small, but only having occasional entry to the house when adult. No problem. My dog now I took to work everyday until around 5 months, then she learned the hard way (at summer camp) to be left alone (she had a wolfdog friend very close, so not completely alone) lot of the day and most nights. Then she lived in a kennel outside our house, being allowed in the yard and garden when we were at home, but only occasionally allowed inside. Now she lives with me in tiny apartment, while I spend at least 9 hours in work daily, she is OK with that. She even goes to other room when I work on the computer, to lie on the couch and sleep alone.

3) dog hotels

Well, no any dog hotel, I am sure. But since she was young, I left Frei in dog hotels when I had to travel because of work, and she is used to it. I just make sure the hotel is able to actually take care of her, meaning that they have good kennels and allow her to play with other suitable dogs, or pay her enough attention themselves. Since she is used to strangers she has no problem obeying people I leave her with, even when they speak other language (she now apparently understands Slovak/Czech, Catalan, English and French).

I am not saying that wolfdog is or is not right for nask, I am saying that the arguments which I mentioned until now are not really valid.

Rona · 24-02-2013, 10:32

Saschia, I think this is a common approach to potential new vlcak owners

To present them the worst options possible. If they are determined enough to make their dreams come true, they will. However, they will be better prepared to what they might expect, more open, creative, philosophical, etc.

It's similar to our wolfdogs meeting new dogs. Adult vlcaks tend to threaten (test) almost every new adult dog they meet for the first time. If the new one isn't afraid, displays respect without agression, he is accepted in the pack but if he trembles of fear or shows agression and strong dominance... - not necessarily

We don't only teach our vlckas, we also learn from our pets.

saschia · 24-02-2013, 10:47

Oh Rona, I understand completely the thing about saying the worst stuff about them. But it is simply not true that you cannot leave them alone and that they don't stay in the hotel etc.

Yes, they do destroy everything when they get in that kind of mindset, and they are strong and intelligent enough to be able to get to destroy things other dogs wouldn't dream about. Yes, they need great amounts of time and energy given to them. Yes, their howling can drive neighbors crazy. Yes, they are able to escape better than Houdini. Yes, they will steal your steaks and then come ask for their dinner.

But the things I wrote about were stated in way, that responsible person will think that oups, I am not able to give a wolfdog what it needs, as I didn't volunteer in tortured pit rescue and don't have time 24/7 and have a family and friends and life in general so I better get something easier, like working line Huskie... And irresponsible person will say eff that, I'll get one anyway. Do we want responsible people to get wolfdogs, or the irresponsible one?

yukidomari · 20-02-2013, 01:03

when one properly owns a vlcak, they quickly realize that they are actually owned by one, instead.

it's a breed that more than others you have to tailor your life around - a breed requiring a lot of management in almost all facets of their life.

prior to my first CsV I had 4 different breeds of dog before, including Dobermann and also fostered a number of German Shepherd Dogs. I can tell you now that Vlcaks are way more difficult in a myriad of ways. And one thing that i don't think is emphasized enough is that at maturity, Vlcaks can and are selective as to which new dogs they will tolerate socializing with, especially with the same sex. many people here have young dogs now coming into maturity and are suddenly completely shocked that their dogs have become 'dog aggressive'......... i would say they are again.. selective. and one must exercise a lot of precaution and management..

i agree it would be good to have experience. whether that's keeping another breed first, regularly volunteering at a shelter to train and socialize puppies, working with dogs, joining a training club.. or something.. or even attending a few breed meet ups to meet the breed too.... all of these would be very useful.

nask · 20-02-2013, 11:42

Hi, Thank you for your insights, i shall continue researching this breed for many, many years and settle for the GSD for now.

It seems the CSV breed is very, very intelligent but i guess it gets this intelligence from the GSD genes, so my next question is would the GSD behave in a similar manner, in terms of studying my behaviour? My understanding is that the CSV was bred with the wolf to try and increase the health of the dog without compromising on the intelligence. so should the CSV not be as obedient as the GSD? in terms of why the CSV would obey my command, id say because it sees me as the leader/alpha dog and of course for the reward associated with obeying my command? As i have said before i dont think i will get the CSV for now, mainly because of the lack of space i have in the garden and the fact that i do not have a whole lot of time to dedicate totally to the CSV. with these shortcomings it would be unfair on the CSV, so my next question is how would a GSD respond in the same environment? i would walk the dog first thing in the morning ( i have a large open park 1 min walk from where i live, very handy

) every morning and then again in the evening after work. on Wed, Fri, Sat + Sun id be with the dog the whole day.

and finally please can someone tell me how much exercise the CSV would need on a daily basis?

guys THANK YOU, THANK YOU, AAAANNNNDDDD THANK YOU again for ALL your feedback, through feedback from you guys and learning about the CSV myself i will prepare myself (as best as i can) for the day i can get one, probably a number of years away for now, i guess when i have a lot more time on my hands and a bigger garden

TimoleonVieta · 05-03-2013, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by nask

Hi All,

Please excuse me if what i am asking is very basic information, this is all very new to me but i would like to make the right choice for me, my family and the dog i am looking for.

First of all i am not looking to buy for at least a year, maybe longer, so i am researching for the time being. From what i have gathered on various on line pages is that this dog can be hard to handle, especially for novices or someone who has not had a dog in the past like me......

I think a lot of this is down to the training and socialisation given to the CSV and my thinking is that as long as you get the CSV as a pup then it will grow with you and become the dog you want it to be. I have always wanted a German Shepherd dog for its intelligence, my friend mentioned a Chez Border dog, and i stumbled upon the GSV and well it was love at first sight

.

Nas

I can tell you two scenarios, & hopefully they will be of some help in your choice of dog that will suit your lifestyle.

there is a puppy, she can go to anyone whatever fates decide for her. I buy her, I travel to the Czech republic collect her & spend many weeks driving around with her in a foreign country until she is old enough for her jabs & to return to the UK. In this time she is with me around 22/23 hours a day. This is until 4 months old. In this time MY work stopped, contracts were put on hold, family commitments were shelved & loving partners were left at home while in sub zero temperatures my new dog & I bonded. The bonding took several weeks until she began to really trust me. You see when you get a CSV trust is more important than running, cycling being left alone for hours to wait for you. Trust is not easily gained with a very intelligent animal. This will need to be forged in many different situations & scenarios before your dog realises that the world with you at least is a safe place to be.

When we returned home, I went back to work. My dog came with me & when I downed tools for lunch, she came with me. When I went out in the evening, sometimes she came with me sometimes I left her with my partner/friend or father. This took a long time for her to be comfortable with. Sometimes she would bite my partners ankles or cry for an hour. She would attack my fathers curtains & be in a state of anxiety. We persevered though but the willingness of others was key to my dogs happiness. Sometimes people would say, "why do you expect people to help you look after a dog?" I would say, I don't expect it but when she is older please don't come patting her on the head & complimenting her behaviour if you couldn't be bothered to help her when she was young.

Everyday the dog craves to be taught. It is a pleasure to teach such an intelligent willing learner. So I would sit at night often & work out what we would learn in the days & weeks ahead. Like a child what would it learn with a bicycle ride at the weekend & half an hour walk in the morning when it spends this half hour in anxiety because it knows everyday you leave it alone in a shed?

How will the dog learn to accept young children running by it screaming in the park, or men in the pub howling at it & woofing at it & generally getting in your dogs face. How will it learn as it is becoming dominant day by day that the lone man on the track with a stick is not a threat.

Because it takes time, that's your job with a dog like this. It is naturally cautious but capable of understanding & learning to be comfortable in most situations. Hours of time each day & each month that pass by. What you taught it at 7 months may not work now at 15 months because your dog will change dramatically & you will need to teach & help you dog cope with things again & again.

I spend perhaps 30 something hours with my dog per week interacting in someway. My partner spends perhaps 10 hours & other people perhaps 5 hours interacting with her. So has this made her a dog that is comfortable in most situations & a dog that I can trust that trusts me. Sometimes yes sometimes I feel I should've done more. Should have been more intelligent on her behalf. Taken her to a few more football games down the pub rather than given up for 3 months because of the constant distractions & sometimes horrible comments from people.

The second scenerio is this;

Do things your way & let the dog live around your routine. Expect it to somehow understand why it is not being mentally nourished daily & expected to behave impeccably in the park at the weekend. When you come home & it doesn't respect you until you have to shout at it or put it in a cage until it settles. You will have a shy & confused dog I assure you.

By all means get any dog you want, but if you have a job where you will need to be at work all day, when you are not at work you will need to work double hard when you get home. A cycle ride is great, but I would suggest walking & taking the dog into different situations & change the routine alot in the city/countryside. I suggest you take a big holiday from work within the 1st 4 months of it's life to do some serious bonding with the puppy.

A bored CSV is an unhappy CSV. Routine can be good but it also can be terribly boring for people & for dogs.

I suggest you meet a few & you will perhaps see what I mean, to me it is much closer to bringing up a child than a puppy. Sometimes I envy my sister with her little boy, who doesn't have a 500lb bite force, or can clear 8 foot fences to get away from someone he doesn't like!

If you are not going to change your routines I would get a husky or other high energy dog that like running & working around your routine. But it sounds like you do love dogs so maybe you can take heed of peoples advice & have a happy CSV of your own. The fact that you have never had a dog before might inhibit you a little but this can be overcome with your research effort you eventually put in. There are very experienced dog owners that have their dogs on Preloved at this very minute. A 16 year old could own a dog like this for sure if he or she put in the time, love, understanding & effort.

tupacs2legs · 05-03-2013, 22:27

My 'other breed' is the siberian husky..... They are NOT easier dogs and have their own 'quirks' that involve thinking 'outside the box' and take particular management like wolfdogs! Just without the added trait of guarding instincts...

touched by twh's · 08-03-2013, 19:43

I agree definitly
!

TimoleonVieta · 12-03-2013, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

My 'other breed' is the siberian husky..... They are NOT easier dogs and have their own 'quirks' that involve thinking 'outside the box' and take particular management like wolfdogs! Just without the added trait of guarding instincts...

Yes I am sure they are a difficult breed with their own quirks. My bad

Fede86 · 14-03-2013, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimoleonVieta

You see when you get a CSV trust is more important than running, cycling being left alone for hours to wait for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimoleonVieta

Everyday the dog craves to be taught.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimoleonVieta

A bored CSV is an unhappy CSV. Routine can be good but it also can be terribly boring for people & for dogs.

I agree, and from what I can see this is a breed that needs to be educated by living through experiences and bonding over them with the owner. Real life experiences give you a chance to prove your dog you know what you are doing and also give the dog a chance to learn how things have to be done. They allow your dog to develop self awareness and self control and to learn how actions have consequences and how to deal with them. I find that this teaching/learning/bonding process works very well (at least for me) but it is extremely time "consuming". But also a lot of fun

Anyway I think the hardest part is not to "handle" them, but to make them happy...

19-02-2013, 18:28	#1
nask Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 9	Is the CSV dog right for me??? Hi All, Please excuse me if what i am asking is very basic information, this is all very new to me but i would like to make the right choice for me, my family and the dog i am looking for. First of all i am not looking to buy for at least a year, maybe longer, so i am researching for the time being. From what i have gathered on various on line pages is that this dog can be hard to handle, especially for novices or someone who has not had a dog in the past like me...... I think a lot of this is down to the training and socialisation given to the CSV and my thinking is that as long as you get the CSV as a pup then it will grow with you and become the dog you want it to be. I have always wanted a German Shepherd dog for its intelligence, my friend mentioned a Chez Border dog, and i stumbled upon the GSV and well it was love at first sight . I guess id like to know if you guys think i can handle such an animal? i have never owned any dog before, this can be an advantage im told???? u see im quite an active person, so the dog would be with me first thing in the morning for a 30 min jog, then returned to its kennel (which is a large shed outdoors, the shed is approx 20ft in length and 10ft in width) whilst i am at work, my partner would feed it whilst i am at work. Upon returning from work i would take the CSV for a stroll in the park for an hour or so. this would be the routine from Mon - Fri, during the weekends i cycle approx 10k so again the CSV would be with me whilst i cycle as id like to make sure it gets enough exercise. I would change the routes i take as regularly as i can to make sure the CSV does not get bored. can you guys advise if the environment i have described would be suitable for the CSV or would it require constant attention each day, all day, every day????? I would appreciate any advise you guys can part with. Many thanks Nas

19-02-2013, 19:17	#2
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	First of all I consider that CzW needs an experienced owner. Newbie owners tend to make several mistakes that would end to be only a bothering situation if you own a small/medium sized dog, but that can be catastrophical if you owns an CzW. They need an wise and patient owner, one kind that will be able to arrive at his home tired, find his own house with even the windows cracked and smile for the situation, clean, fix it in a way your nice pet will not be able to do it again and dont kill the dog because "it was too late for correction". Stubborn owner able to maintain a "No" because "No is NO" independent of how nice face your dog is doing. Experienced enough to know what your dog is thinking much before he do it. Wolfdogs are extremely intelligent, and it's not a good thing for an experienced owner, much worst for a newbie, they will learn everything fast.. everything you dont want to teach him, like how to open doors, open windows, run away from the kennel, open refrigerator and so on. Someway we can compare them with cats, they will study your personality and behaviour, they will see your weak points and strong ones, and if you dont pay attention they will use it to manipulate you. You should never underestimate a CzW, they can do things you consider impossible, that kennel you thought he would never jump, that window you thought he may never brake, he will. And you will get him to not do things you dont want by respect and love, and it will take time. After adulthood they are the best dogs i've ever had, but till they mature they are like storms in our life, even for an experienced CzW owner, the new pup/young dog will be a challenge. Perhaps you're willing to try to have a CzW accepting all the problems he will cause to your life and to your goods... but are the people who live with you also willing to it? Also, I see that you live in UK, you know that there are no behaviourists able to deal with CzW because CzW is a new breed in your country, the same way as find a new owner in case of regret will be hard. You might think of yourself all alone with this dog, yet do you think that without experience, is it a dog for you? I think you should first get a dog, a normal dog for be your pet and notice how challengeful a normal dog will be for you, later, after having experience with this dog, then think about a more hard breed. __________________ Last edited by Nebulosa; 24-02-2013 at 06:38.

19-02-2013, 20:19	#3
nask Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 9	Thank you!!! Hi, thank you for your response, my main concern was the well being of the dog, i wanted to know how often i should take it for a walk????? some peole say they need to go for 6 - 10km walk everyday!!! this i cannot commit to because i am at work on Mon, Tues + Thursday. I dont work on wednesday or friday or the weekend.... so i would make sure it gets the right amount of exercise.. in response to your question about it breaking stuff and me being angry at it, NEVER!!! an animal has its own personality and thats part of the animal, yes it will behave badly like a child does and that is where you MUST be firm with the animal, firm but fair...... Like i said i am researching the dog for at least a year before i even consider getting one... i wnat to learn about the mannerism of wolves as well as the German shepard in the same way as this chap did, i find his blog very helpful. http://raksa.certik.cz/english-1/first-year The only other dog i would consider is the German Shepard or the Czech Border dog, again for the intelligence of the dog, its obedience and the fact that they are good with family members. I guess you will never know about the animal until you get one and as long as you treat it right give it the love that it needs as well as the discipline then you should be ok? Do you mind if i ask how many dogs you had before you got the CSV? and what you thought were the differences between your previous dogs and this one? the more i research on the magnificent animal the more i love and respect it.......

23-02-2013, 18:05	#8
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	Since the beginning of this thread I found some things I cannot agree with, so I'll touch them before reading further: 1) experienced / inexperienced Wolfdog was my first dog ever, I got a large and dominant bitch, I was 16.5 when I got her and managed to do defense training, agility and hiking with her without any great difficulties. Yes, she drove me almost crazy sometimes, but I think experience with other dogs may not get you ready. Either you have it in you or you don't and any amount of labs, GSD or other dog breeds will not help you much. 2) kennel and leaving dog alone They can stand it. Some have bigger problems, some have no problems. You just may not raise it as a companionship junkie, than it will have problems staying alone. My first dog grew up in our yard, sleeping in my bedroom when small, but only having occasional entry to the house when adult. No problem. My dog now I took to work everyday until around 5 months, then she learned the hard way (at summer camp) to be left alone (she had a wolfdog friend very close, so not completely alone) lot of the day and most nights. Then she lived in a kennel outside our house, being allowed in the yard and garden when we were at home, but only occasionally allowed inside. Now she lives with me in tiny apartment, while I spend at least 9 hours in work daily, she is OK with that. She even goes to other room when I work on the computer, to lie on the couch and sleep alone. 3) dog hotels Well, no any dog hotel, I am sure. But since she was young, I left Frei in dog hotels when I had to travel because of work, and she is used to it. I just make sure the hotel is able to actually take care of her, meaning that they have good kennels and allow her to play with other suitable dogs, or pay her enough attention themselves. Since she is used to strangers she has no problem obeying people I leave her with, even when they speak other language (she now apparently understands Slovak/Czech, Catalan, English and French). I am not saying that wolfdog is or is not right for nask, I am saying that the arguments which I mentioned until now are not really valid. __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

24-02-2013, 10:32	#9
Rona Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kraków Posts: 3,509	Saschia, I think this is a common approach to potential new vlcak owners To present them the worst options possible. If they are determined enough to make their dreams come true, they will. However, they will be better prepared to what they might expect, more open, creative, philosophical, etc. It's similar to our wolfdogs meeting new dogs. Adult vlcaks tend to threaten (test) almost every new adult dog they meet for the first time. If the new one isn't afraid, displays respect without agression, he is accepted in the pack but if he trembles of fear or shows agression and strong dominance... - not necessarily We don't only teach our vlckas, we also learn from our pets. __________________

19-02-2013, 20:37	#4
Tassle Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall Posts: 137	I am fairly knew to the breed - my boy is a cross, but I am a trainer and have a fair amount of experience with different breeds and types. Knowing what I do about these dogs, I do not think your home situation sounds best for a dog of this type. Living as an only dog in a Kennel however many days (first post was 5 - second 3)a week could be your first big potential problem. These dogs like company and would not do well (IMHO) left to their own devices in a kennel.

20-02-2013, 11:50	#7
nask Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 9	Hello, i see ur based in london and was wondering how much space you have in your garden for the CSV to roam free? lol yes the shed, made of breeze blocks and not wood + with double glazed windows, its more of a pimped out room then a shed

24-02-2013, 10:47	#10
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	Oh Rona, I understand completely the thing about saying the worst stuff about them. But it is simply not true that you cannot leave them alone and that they don't stay in the hotel etc. Yes, they do destroy everything when they get in that kind of mindset, and they are strong and intelligent enough to be able to get to destroy things other dogs wouldn't dream about. Yes, they need great amounts of time and energy given to them. Yes, their howling can drive neighbors crazy. Yes, they are able to escape better than Houdini. Yes, they will steal your steaks and then come ask for their dinner. But the things I wrote about were stated in way, that responsible person will think that oups, I am not able to give a wolfdog what it needs, as I didn't volunteer in tortured pit rescue and don't have time 24/7 and have a family and friends and life in general so I better get something easier, like working line Huskie... And irresponsible person will say eff that, I'll get one anyway. Do we want responsible people to get wolfdogs, or the irresponsible one? __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

20-02-2013, 01:03	#11
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	when one properly owns a vlcak, they quickly realize that they are actually owned by one, instead. it's a breed that more than others you have to tailor your life around - a breed requiring a lot of management in almost all facets of their life. prior to my first CsV I had 4 different breeds of dog before, including Dobermann and also fostered a number of German Shepherd Dogs. I can tell you now that Vlcaks are way more difficult in a myriad of ways. And one thing that i don't think is emphasized enough is that at maturity, Vlcaks can and are selective as to which new dogs they will tolerate socializing with, especially with the same sex. many people here have young dogs now coming into maturity and are suddenly completely shocked that their dogs have become 'dog aggressive'......... i would say they are again.. selective. and one must exercise a lot of precaution and management.. i agree it would be good to have experience. whether that's keeping another breed first, regularly volunteering at a shelter to train and socialize puppies, working with dogs, joining a training club.. or something.. or even attending a few breed meet ups to meet the breed too.... all of these would be very useful. __________________ "Learn to do well; seek judgment." www.greyfarer.com/

20-02-2013, 11:42	#12
nask Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 9	Thank you :-) Hi, Thank you for your insights, i shall continue researching this breed for many, many years and settle for the GSD for now. It seems the CSV breed is very, very intelligent but i guess it gets this intelligence from the GSD genes, so my next question is would the GSD behave in a similar manner, in terms of studying my behaviour? My understanding is that the CSV was bred with the wolf to try and increase the health of the dog without compromising on the intelligence. so should the CSV not be as obedient as the GSD? in terms of why the CSV would obey my command, id say because it sees me as the leader/alpha dog and of course for the reward associated with obeying my command? As i have said before i dont think i will get the CSV for now, mainly because of the lack of space i have in the garden and the fact that i do not have a whole lot of time to dedicate totally to the CSV. with these shortcomings it would be unfair on the CSV, so my next question is how would a GSD respond in the same environment? i would walk the dog first thing in the morning ( i have a large open park 1 min walk from where i live, very handy ) every morning and then again in the evening after work. on Wed, Fri, Sat + Sun id be with the dog the whole day. and finally please can someone tell me how much exercise the CSV would need on a daily basis? guys THANK YOU, THANK YOU, AAAANNNNDDDD THANK YOU again for ALL your feedback, through feedback from you guys and learning about the CSV myself i will prepare myself (as best as i can) for the day i can get one, probably a number of years away for now, i guess when i have a lot more time on my hands and a bigger garden

05-03-2013, 22:27	#14
tupacs2legs rookie Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: london Posts: 320	My 'other breed' is the siberian husky..... They are NOT easier dogs and have their own 'quirks' that involve thinking 'outside the box' and take particular management like wolfdogs! Just without the added trait of guarding instincts...

08-03-2013, 19:43	#15
touched by twh's Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Opfikon Posts: 18	I agree definitly ! __________________