The CSV - a working breed?

Per Olav · 21-09-2006, 16:38

Hi.

Please view this article:
http://tinyurl.com/m3yaj

Regards
--
Per Olav

nanouk · 21-09-2006, 17:28

don't think the writer of the text knows anything about the SWH or TWD but i can only agree on this bit of text :

Quote:

Breeding GSDs to accommodate the minimal demands of suburban life is like manufacturing a BMW with the engine of a sewing machine. It will certainly look good and give its owner's ego a boost, but the essence is gone. If a pet owner is not willing to provide the training and exercise this breed requires, there are many other breeds, including several listed here, which would be more appropriate.

Hanka · 21-09-2006, 18:46

Hello Olav,
I know this page. And do you know, what wolfdog is on picture???

Per Olav · 21-09-2006, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Hello Olav,
I know this page. And do you know, what wolfdog is on picture???

No, sweetie, I don't

Feel free to inform, please.
Love
--
PO

Per Olav · 21-09-2006, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by nanouk

don't think the writer of the text knows anything about the SWH or TWD but i can only agree on this bit of text :

Quote:

Breeding GSDs to accommodate the minimal demands of suburban life is like manufacturing a BMW with the engine of a sewing machine. It will certainly look good and give its owner's ego a boost, but the essence is gone. If a pet owner is not willing to provide the training and exercise this breed requires, there are many other breeds, including several listed here, which would be more appropriate.

In my humble opinnion it's most regretful that such information is spread on the net. I've taken the liberty of adressing the author and informed her of this site.
--
PO

Hanka · 21-09-2006, 22:33

It is my Ali Reolup

) But it was very young dog about 1 year.
Sometimes are very bad informations about our wolfdogs. In articles, in books about wolfdog

( But it is "fight with wind mill". Bye Hanka

Per Olav · 24-10-2006, 17:05

At last I received a reply from the author. It goes like this:
--

I had a look at the web site. It is a good site, and they are very nice looking dogs, but at this point in their development, I saw nothing to change my mind regarding working ability. I found no advanced working titles. The bitework was adequate, but not impressive, although still pictures can be deceiving. The obedience did not show a lot of good attention work, although this can be just training. The working dog fraternity is very quick to utilize dogs with real talent, and so far no, or very few, Czech Wolfdogs have been competitive, as far as I know, at the top levels of sport. Nor are they making serious inroads in service. The Czech bred German shepherd is one of the most popular service dogs in the world because there is a large market demanding good dogs. The Malinois was very uncommon in North American only a few years ago, but its working ability was quickly recognized around the world. I have yet to see a Wolfdog in North America in any service capacity.

If Wolfdog breeders seriously want to produce working dogs, they need to select more on the basis of ability and less on looks. Bring in top trainers for seminars. Get involved in DVG and compete with the best dogs, not just each other. These are nice dogs, and it would be good to see them on the podium, and working in the mainstream. In the meantime, they simply do not rank anywhere near the GSD, and my comments stand.

As far as crossing dogs with wolves, I assume the crossing in CW was many generations ago, and is no longer being done. In that case the wolf influence can be muted, although a trainer friend who has seen these dogs observed quite a bit of skittishness. The wolf is not a good cross if you want a working dog, as the nerves, pack drive and dominance can all be adversely affected. It’s hard enough to breed stable temperament in dogs, without bringing in the skittishness of wolves. If you want a good working dog you have to select for the dog characteristics, and away from the wolf temperament. Physically, it can be an advantageous cross, if your dog lines have problems. Strong dog families have no need of “improvement” with wolves. I remain of the opinion that crossing wolves with dogs is not a good idea, especially if you want working dogs. Better to breed top working dogs and go from there.

Regards

Linda Shaw

--
Per Olav

Pavel · 24-10-2006, 20:33

The authors have really not information about dogs. Not only about CsW or SWH, but about GSD as well. The "DDR line" and "Czuech line" of GSD looks little bit other. The basic difference is, that they are really working dogs and cant be so angled, like the show line of GSD, which is on the pictures.
And am not supriced, because its a US page and as we all know, USA cynology is on the top

(its a reason, why they buing the working dogs in Europe and in eastern Europe especially).

Sky · 26-10-2006, 19:53

Salutes are Alessio and I write from Italy, I apologize me for my English!!!

If I can say mine, respect this article? I think of him.

The our breed is a race that you can work in different fields of the cinofilia. My SKy has gotten the IPO1 and stà working for IPO2, certain it doesn't learn with the speed of the German shepherd, but with experienced people you can reach good levels.
In Italy we also have subjects that have entered to belong to the civil protection, thanks to the extraordinary smell that this race possesses.

I would say that if selected well could get job dogs, certain not tomorrow! But among a few years we could have excellent subjects.

Regards Alessio Tabacco from Venice Italia

dogman1971 · 27-10-2006, 19:37

Hi,
I recently joined to post a reply on this subject.First I want to say I admire the people of your country and others that work with their CZWD and I wish more people would work with WD's in my country,the USA.
I am a former military dog handler,then trained and handled area security dogs.After retiring from the military I started raising wolfdogs.When I saw their physical and mental ability I started breeding to create one that will work.I saw a animal that everyone who handled dogs in the vietnam war had a desire for.I crossed a wolf with GSD but the pups were still weak nerved.I than crossed one with a very dominate Alaskan Huskey bred to work and the pups have very strong nerves.I protection trained two of these pups and they do very well.They will bite if they feel threatned or the handler is threatned.They have a very hard bite but they must know it is for real.No sport.
I than took a male and bred it to a dominate female wolf.Now I have 71.5% F1 pups that are very trainable.These pups are fearless and I have found nothing that spooks them.I am training one female for search & rescue.She has picked up commands faster than any dog I have worked with.In the woods she is amazing,Silent,slow and very serious she misses nothing and has airscented and found human decoys over a 1/4 mile away in thick forest.I say no dog can match a wolf in scenting,tracking or trailing.
I would like to address the statement:"Science is now revealing the domestic dog has evolved a genetic capability to recognize humal gestures and intonations of voice,an ability not possessed by the wolf".I say this is a false statement.Anyone who has wolves or high % wolfdogs will tell you different.They are in tune with their owners more than a dog and many believe they have a extra sense.We don't talk about it much because people who do not know these animals can't understand.They are experts at reading humans or other animals.
In my country there are many predjudces against wolfdogs,Rabies vaccination,kid killers,can't be trained,It is like fighting a windmill.
I have found they must be trained and handled different than a dog.
Rick

21-09-2006, 16:38	#1
Per Olav Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 395	The CSV - a working breed? Hi. Please view this article: http://tinyurl.com/m3yaj Regards -- Per Olav

21-09-2006, 18:46	#3
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Hello Olav, I know this page. And do you know, what wolfdog is on picture???

21-09-2006, 22:33	#6
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	It is my Ali Reolup ) But it was very young dog about 1 year. Sometimes are very bad informations about our wolfdogs. In articles, in books about wolfdog ( But it is "fight with wind mill". Bye Hanka

24-10-2006, 17:05	#7
Per Olav Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 395	At last I received a reply from the author. It goes like this: -- I had a look at the web site. It is a good site, and they are very nice looking dogs, but at this point in their development, I saw nothing to change my mind regarding working ability. I found no advanced working titles. The bitework was adequate, but not impressive, although still pictures can be deceiving. The obedience did not show a lot of good attention work, although this can be just training. The working dog fraternity is very quick to utilize dogs with real talent, and so far no, or very few, Czech Wolfdogs have been competitive, as far as I know, at the top levels of sport. Nor are they making serious inroads in service. The Czech bred German shepherd is one of the most popular service dogs in the world because there is a large market demanding good dogs. The Malinois was very uncommon in North American only a few years ago, but its working ability was quickly recognized around the world. I have yet to see a Wolfdog in North America in any service capacity. If Wolfdog breeders seriously want to produce working dogs, they need to select more on the basis of ability and less on looks. Bring in top trainers for seminars. Get involved in DVG and compete with the best dogs, not just each other. These are nice dogs, and it would be good to see them on the podium, and working in the mainstream. In the meantime, they simply do not rank anywhere near the GSD, and my comments stand. As far as crossing dogs with wolves, I assume the crossing in CW was many generations ago, and is no longer being done. In that case the wolf influence can be muted, although a trainer friend who has seen these dogs observed quite a bit of skittishness. The wolf is not a good cross if you want a working dog, as the nerves, pack drive and dominance can all be adversely affected. It’s hard enough to breed stable temperament in dogs, without bringing in the skittishness of wolves. If you want a good working dog you have to select for the dog characteristics, and away from the wolf temperament. Physically, it can be an advantageous cross, if your dog lines have problems. Strong dog families have no need of “improvement” with wolves. I remain of the opinion that crossing wolves with dogs is not a good idea, especially if you want working dogs. Better to breed top working dogs and go from there. Regards Linda Shaw -- Per Olav

24-10-2006, 20:33	#8
Pavel Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,190	The authors have really not information about dogs. Not only about CsW or SWH, but about GSD as well. The "DDR line" and "Czuech line" of GSD looks little bit other. The basic difference is, that they are really working dogs and cant be so angled, like the show line of GSD, which is on the pictures. And am not supriced, because its a US page and as we all know, USA cynology is on the top (its a reason, why they buing the working dogs in Europe and in eastern Europe especially).

26-10-2006, 19:53	#9
Sky CLC per sempre!!! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: VENEZIA Martellago Posts: 211	Salutes are Alessio and I write from Italy, I apologize me for my English!!! If I can say mine, respect this article? I think of him. The our breed is a race that you can work in different fields of the cinofilia. My SKy has gotten the IPO1 and stà working for IPO2, certain it doesn't learn with the speed of the German shepherd, but with experienced people you can reach good levels. In Italy we also have subjects that have entered to belong to the civil protection, thanks to the extraordinary smell that this race possesses. I would say that if selected well could get job dogs, certain not tomorrow! But among a few years we could have excellent subjects. Regards Alessio Tabacco from Venice Italia

27-10-2006, 19:37	#10
dogman1971 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1	Hi, I recently joined to post a reply on this subject.First I want to say I admire the people of your country and others that work with their CZWD and I wish more people would work with WD's in my country,the USA. I am a former military dog handler,then trained and handled area security dogs.After retiring from the military I started raising wolfdogs.When I saw their physical and mental ability I started breeding to create one that will work.I saw a animal that everyone who handled dogs in the vietnam war had a desire for.I crossed a wolf with GSD but the pups were still weak nerved.I than crossed one with a very dominate Alaskan Huskey bred to work and the pups have very strong nerves.I protection trained two of these pups and they do very well.They will bite if they feel threatned or the handler is threatned.They have a very hard bite but they must know it is for real.No sport. I than took a male and bred it to a dominate female wolf.Now I have 71.5% F1 pups that are very trainable.These pups are fearless and I have found nothing that spooks them.I am training one female for search & rescue.She has picked up commands faster than any dog I have worked with.In the woods she is amazing,Silent,slow and very serious she misses nothing and has airscented and found human decoys over a 1/4 mile away in thick forest.I say no dog can match a wolf in scenting,tracking or trailing. I would like to address the statement:"Science is now revealing the domestic dog has evolved a genetic capability to recognize humal gestures and intonations of voice,an ability not possessed by the wolf".I say this is a false statement.Anyone who has wolves or high % wolfdogs will tell you different.They are in tune with their owners more than a dog and many believe they have a extra sense.We don't talk about it much because people who do not know these animals can't understand.They are experts at reading humans or other animals. In my country there are many predjudces against wolfdogs,Rabies vaccination,kid killers,can't be trained,It is like fighting a windmill. I have found they must be trained and handled different than a dog. Rick