traineble CSW in scandinavia ???

Juniorwolf · 08-04-2005, 13:00

Hi ! I have plans of buying a CSW pup in end of 2005/start of 2006 and trying to find some one who have experience in training CSW in scandinavia,to get some advices cause I am new in competition/sport-training and in ownership of CSW ! ....but most people I have talked with (in scandinavia) do not think of them as traineble or do simply not have any interest in training,witch I think is bad for the future of the breed cause in time if nobody in scandinavia is training there CSW they will all (in scandinavia) loose there trainebility if keept as "wild wolfs" I mean that the difference in haveing a pure wolf and a wolfdog should be in my opinion that the wolfdog hopeful will be more traineble/socialized or am I just totally wrong ??? ....hope to hear form some one with experience in this ! ....Rolf (denmark)

Per Olav · 08-04-2005, 13:29

http://www.woolf.dk

slarman · 09-04-2005, 06:04

Hi,
Go to 'Best Training Method for CSW' in this forum.

Juniorwolf · 10-04-2005, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by slarman

Hi,
Go to 'Best Training Method for CSW' in this forum.

Hi Slarman !

I am following the discussion on "best training method for CSW",but this is not my problem .....yet

I was hopeing for contact to some who have experience with training CSW in Dk/Scandinavia, cause everybody here tell me that CSW is NOT traineble ??? I only know of one guy who tryed to train he`s CSW for IPO and it got "out of control"/too agressive ? but one bad incedent will NOT stop me for trying.... maybe my CSW is more traineble,maybe I have a better way of training-method/reading my dog or maybe NOT ??? I do not know yet,but I WILL try !!! .....sorry for my bad english

slarman · 11-04-2005, 12:20

Rolf,
Best thing to do is contact as many owners/breeders of CSW and go from there,I am trying to import to Australia,so I have the same problems in that there are no CSW here.I have received alot of good advice and made good friends with a couple of people.Also read dog training books,esp. How to raise a puppy & How to be your dogs best friend both books are by The Monks of New Skete who raise train and breed German Shepherds.Whilst the CSW & GSD are different in alot of ways these two texts will give you good grounding.
Simon

Juniorwolf · 11-04-2005, 13:27

Simon !
thanks for your response

I am in contact with breeders in different countries to hear different ideas/oppinions and I have plans of going to wolfdog-meeting in DK and to different summer-camps in czech republic to meet more owners/dogs !
I have read almost anything I could find about wolf/dog behavior since I got my first dog 11 years ago (a GSD) and hopefully I will start on education as animal-behavior-counsellor with dogs as spec. (exam. KYN.) in start of 2006 ! I think there is about 15-20 CSW in DK but only 3 members of spec.club for CSW in DK and non of them is training there CSW as far as I know.....
Rolf

Mirkawolf · 11-04-2005, 16:54

Hi Rolf,

of course, that CSW´s are trainable! Do not believe to anyone, who tells you they are not. Such people are usually just lazy or do not know how to train with their dog and so it is easier for them to say, that the wolfdog cannot be trained.
CSW´s are working breed and as such, they should be training. It does not really matter, what you do with your wolfdog. You can train obedience, tracking or defense (kinda hard, though, the defense), you can do agility, you can do with your wolfdog bikejöring, canicross, coursing, whatever you wish. But the wolfdog should certainly have a "job", unless they get bored and can be destructive at home or garden. Also, by training your wolfdog, you simply improve your relationship with the animal and he respects you more as a master.

When you have a wolfdog, first focus on proper socialising of the puppy. Then, sign him in in some good puppy class, so that he meets other puppies and can play and learn how to deal with them. From puppy class, it is easy to start basic obedience training etc. Agility and other sport activities you can start to train after 1 year of age of the dog, when the skeleton and the whole body of the puppy is well build.
Regarding a good training club, try to choose such one, where is wide variety of breeds, not a club, where is 90% of dogs German shepherds

Clubs that accept all breeds, will be likely more tolerant to your wolfdog.

Good luck,

Mirka

Juniorwolf · 15-04-2005, 14:16

Hi Mirka !
Thanks for your positiv response of the question : is CSW traineble / workingbreed ? I think maybe people in Scandinavia just got "not-traineble" CSW`s and do not think of them as an workingbreed in general but as the closest possible to wolf you can have without special permition (if possible they rather wanted pure wolf) and they do not have any interest in training ! the way I see this breed is kind a like similar to border collie at some points,it NEED to exercise it`s brain a lot cause of it`s high intelligence and it have big stamina so it can run/play/work for a long time without getting tired,the challenge is to keep it interested in the play/work, cause it will only work for you if it get something out of it (food/praise) .... but this do not mean that the CSW is not traineble,just that you as trainer/owner have to be more kreativ and be more aware of reading it`s emotions/needs

.....nice pic. at your website !!!

saschia · 15-04-2005, 16:39

Hi Rolf,

I think you got it very well in your last response. Good luck!

Mirkawolf · 15-04-2005, 17:53

Hi Rolf,

you got it perfectly! And there are no CSW´s, that are "not-trainable", only owners, that don´t know how to train or are lazy.
Myself, I bought my second CSW from a kennel, where the mother is a bit shy and none of the parents passed any training tests. But the puppy was perfectly socialised by the breeder and then by me and now she is 5 months old, knows the basic commands and even barks at command

Also she guards the house all by herself, without any training.
So it is really not about the wolfdogs, but only about their owners

Good luck to you!

Angelika · 16-04-2005, 12:52

Hi Rolf,

we have two CSW: Danja (11 months) and Fajdal (2 1/2 months). Fajdal is in a puppy class and Danja started agility. I don`t know if I continue with agility because Danja gets bored by the time she has to wait until she can work again *g*. Perhaps we will start tracking.

By the way we are 60 km away from "scandinavia".

regards
Angelika

Juniorwolf · 16-04-2005, 13:27

Thanks to you all for makeing me more confident in that CSW IS meant to be a working-breed

....and NOT just a wolfy like "normal family-dog" ...like sarloos witch has no working-purpose arcording to breed-standart ...not to say that some induvidual sarloos`s can not be trained,but it was not the purpose with the breed ...unlike CSW witch purpose was/is working-dog !!! ...they look so much a like

,that the biggest different is in the purpose of the breeds ......I think ?

Mirkawolf · 16-04-2005, 22:26

Hi Rolf,

I am no Saarloos expert, but from what I´ve read, also Saarloos was in the origin meant to be "working" dog. Mr. Saarloos intended to train the wolfdogs to be "seeing-dogs", ie help dogs for blind people. And he managed to train some of them actually to do the job. So the start was all fine, but then apparently somewhere something went wrong and the Saarlooses ended up being what they are now. (I was just today on a dog show and there was Saarloos female so shy, that the judge could not approach it, could not get closer to the dog than 2 m and of course, could not touch it, control the teeth or anything else.. )

Maybe Christa aka "Stenka" would be able to tell you more about Saarlooses.

Per Olav · 18-04-2005, 14:47

[quote="rolf"]Hi Mirka !

Quote:

I think maybe people in Scandinavia just got "not-traineble" CSW`s and do not think of them as an workingbreed in general but as the closest possible to wolf you can have without special permition

Hi

For your info I've been training my dog by the clicker method for several years. This method works perfect for "learn to earn" dogs like the CSV

Dajka · 19-04-2005, 16:11

Hello Rolf,

I´m sure the people are tooo lazy to trains her dogs...because you spend a lot of time on the training ground...if you want to see pictures from training with csw you can look by dany sedy chlup in the gallery, or under sport, work...
my Dogs for example make ShH1+2,ZOP,FH1,BH1-3 this is Barnie z Uher,
Dajka Draga Feherlofja likes Agility and Rettungshundestaffel very much.

To Train a Saarloos is very hard but it works

I know one who have BH1.

greetings birgit

Pavel · 20-04-2005, 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajka

I´m sure the people are tooo lazy to trains her dogs...because you spend a lot of time on the training ground...if you want to see pictures from training with csw you can look by dany sedy chlup in the gallery, or under sport, work...

Thank you Birgit for compliment. But I must say, that am lazy too

. I spend time for training with my dogs mostly only on weekend. I think, that problem is more and more not in laziness but that owners simply dont want ... Of course, if somebody spend every day hour or two for training, then have more successes. But I must say, that from my piont of view is today more important, when more people will working with CsW although on so low level, like me, then 2-3 only on highest.
My experience today is, that for normally level (means ZOP, BH, SchH1 or ZM) enough :
1. good socialisation
2. good cooperation between me and my dog (dog must believe me 100%)
3. although not so often, but regulary training under supervision a good trainer.

First 2 points may be for every owner absolutely automatically things and only the 3rd point cost some time, but mostly not more, then 5-6 hours per week.

*Satu · 20-04-2005, 21:31

Hello!
My name is Satu, i am from Finland. I have two CSW: Hukka (3years) and Vh (16month).
I must say something.I spending my time for training with my dogs.
We training obedience, tracing and Agility too. I don`t like SchH1.
SchH1 is not my species.
Csw don`t have competition lisence yet, in Finland.

greetings Satu

08-04-2005, 13:00	#1
Juniorwolf Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 575	traineble CSW in scandinavia ??? Hi ! I have plans of buying a CSW pup in end of 2005/start of 2006 and trying to find some one who have experience in training CSW in scandinavia,to get some advices cause I am new in competition/sport-training and in ownership of CSW ! ....but most people I have talked with (in scandinavia) do not think of them as traineble or do simply not have any interest in training,witch I think is bad for the future of the breed cause in time if nobody in scandinavia is training there CSW they will all (in scandinavia) loose there trainebility if keept as "wild wolfs" I mean that the difference in haveing a pure wolf and a wolfdog should be in my opinion that the wolfdog hopeful will be more traineble/socialized or am I just totally wrong ??? ....hope to hear form some one with experience in this ! ....Rolf (denmark)

08-04-2005, 13:29	#2
Per Olav Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 395	http://www.woolf.dk __________________ Per Olav

11-04-2005, 13:27	#6
Juniorwolf Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 575	traineble CSW in scandinavia ??? Simon ! thanks for your response I am in contact with breeders in different countries to hear different ideas/oppinions and I have plans of going to wolfdog-meeting in DK and to different summer-camps in czech republic to meet more owners/dogs ! I have read almost anything I could find about wolf/dog behavior since I got my first dog 11 years ago (a GSD) and hopefully I will start on education as animal-behavior-counsellor with dogs as spec. (exam. KYN.) in start of 2006 ! I think there is about 15-20 CSW in DK but only 3 members of spec.club for CSW in DK and non of them is training there CSW as far as I know..... Rolf

11-04-2005, 16:54	#7
Mirkawolf Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Brussels Posts: 556	Hi Rolf, of course, that CSW´s are trainable! Do not believe to anyone, who tells you they are not. Such people are usually just lazy or do not know how to train with their dog and so it is easier for them to say, that the wolfdog cannot be trained. CSW´s are working breed and as such, they should be training. It does not really matter, what you do with your wolfdog. You can train obedience, tracking or defense (kinda hard, though, the defense), you can do agility, you can do with your wolfdog bikejöring, canicross, coursing, whatever you wish. But the wolfdog should certainly have a "job", unless they get bored and can be destructive at home or garden. Also, by training your wolfdog, you simply improve your relationship with the animal and he respects you more as a master. When you have a wolfdog, first focus on proper socialising of the puppy. Then, sign him in in some good puppy class, so that he meets other puppies and can play and learn how to deal with them. From puppy class, it is easy to start basic obedience training etc. Agility and other sport activities you can start to train after 1 year of age of the dog, when the skeleton and the whole body of the puppy is well build. Regarding a good training club, try to choose such one, where is wide variety of breeds, not a club, where is 90% of dogs German shepherds Clubs that accept all breeds, will be likely more tolerant to your wolfdog. Good luck, Mirka __________________ :: :: :: Cira & Ali & Tulip :: :: :: http://vlcisen.mirkawolf.com

15-04-2005, 14:16	#8
Juniorwolf Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 575	traineble CSw in scandinavia ??? Hi Mirka ! Thanks for your positiv response of the question : is CSW traineble / workingbreed ? I think maybe people in Scandinavia just got "not-traineble" CSW`s and do not think of them as an workingbreed in general but as the closest possible to wolf you can have without special permition (if possible they rather wanted pure wolf) and they do not have any interest in training ! the way I see this breed is kind a like similar to border collie at some points,it NEED to exercise it`s brain a lot cause of it`s high intelligence and it have big stamina so it can run/play/work for a long time without getting tired,the challenge is to keep it interested in the play/work, cause it will only work for you if it get something out of it (food/praise) .... but this do not mean that the CSW is not traineble,just that you as trainer/owner have to be more kreativ and be more aware of reading it`s emotions/needs .....nice pic. at your website !!!

09-04-2005, 06:04	#3
slarman Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 47	Hi, Go to 'Best Training Method for CSW' in this forum.

11-04-2005, 12:20	#5
slarman Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 47	Rolf, Best thing to do is contact as many owners/breeders of CSW and go from there,I am trying to import to Australia,so I have the same problems in that there are no CSW here.I have received alot of good advice and made good friends with a couple of people.Also read dog training books,esp. How to raise a puppy & How to be your dogs best friend both books are by The Monks of New Skete who raise train and breed German Shepherds.Whilst the CSW & GSD are different in alot of ways these two texts will give you good grounding. Simon

15-04-2005, 16:39	#9
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	Hi Rolf, I think you got it very well in your last response. Good luck! __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

15-04-2005, 17:53	#10
Mirkawolf Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Brussels Posts: 556	Hi Rolf, you got it perfectly! And there are no CSW´s, that are "not-trainable", only owners, that don´t know how to train or are lazy. Myself, I bought my second CSW from a kennel, where the mother is a bit shy and none of the parents passed any training tests. But the puppy was perfectly socialised by the breeder and then by me and now she is 5 months old, knows the basic commands and even barks at command Also she guards the house all by herself, without any training. So it is really not about the wolfdogs, but only about their owners Good luck to you! __________________ :: :: :: Cira & Ali & Tulip :: :: :: http://vlcisen.mirkawolf.com

16-04-2005, 12:52	#11
Angelika Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 847	traineble CSW in scandinavia??? Hi Rolf, we have two CSW: Danja (11 months) and Fajdal (2 1/2 months). Fajdal is in a puppy class and Danja started agility. I don`t know if I continue with agility because Danja gets bored by the time she has to wait until she can work again g. Perhaps we will start tracking. By the way we are 60 km away from "scandinavia". regards Angelika

16-04-2005, 13:27	#12
Juniorwolf Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 575	traineble CSW in scandinavia ??? Thanks to you all for makeing me more confident in that CSW IS meant to be a working-breed ....and NOT just a wolfy like "normal family-dog" ...like sarloos witch has no working-purpose arcording to breed-standart ...not to say that some induvidual sarloos`s can not be trained,but it was not the purpose with the breed ...unlike CSW witch purpose was/is working-dog !!! ...they look so much a like ,that the biggest different is in the purpose of the breeds ......I think ?

16-04-2005, 22:26	#13
Mirkawolf Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Brussels Posts: 556	Hi Rolf, I am no Saarloos expert, but from what I´ve read, also Saarloos was in the origin meant to be "working" dog. Mr. Saarloos intended to train the wolfdogs to be "seeing-dogs", ie help dogs for blind people. And he managed to train some of them actually to do the job. So the start was all fine, but then apparently somewhere something went wrong and the Saarlooses ended up being what they are now. (I was just today on a dog show and there was Saarloos female so shy, that the judge could not approach it, could not get closer to the dog than 2 m and of course, could not touch it, control the teeth or anything else.. ) Maybe Christa aka "Stenka" would be able to tell you more about Saarlooses. __________________ :: :: :: Cira & Ali & Tulip :: :: :: http://vlcisen.mirkawolf.com

19-04-2005, 16:11	#15
Dajka Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: BW Posts: 868	traineble CSW in scandinavia??? Hello Rolf, I´m sure the people are tooo lazy to trains her dogs...because you spend a lot of time on the training ground...if you want to see pictures from training with csw you can look by dany sedy chlup in the gallery, or under sport, work... my Dogs for example make ShH1+2,ZOP,FH1,BH1-3 this is Barnie z Uher, Dajka Draga Feherlofja likes Agility and Rettungshundestaffel very much. To Train a Saarloos is very hard but it works I know one who have BH1. greetings birgit __________________ ------------------------------------------------ Man kann versuchen Euch zu ändern, aber man kann auch die Zeit sinnvoll nutzen! ----------------------------------------- Zwinger von der Gölshäuser Lücke

20-04-2005, 21:31	#17
*Satu Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 194	Hello! My name is Satu, i am from Finland. I have two CSW: Hukka (3years) and Vh (16month). I must say something.I spending my time for training with my dogs. We training obedience, tracing and Agility too. I don`t like SchH1. SchH1 is not my species. Csw don`t have competition lisence yet, in Finland. greetings Satu