de Louba Tar kennel

[the pack]

Originally Posted by Wolfsirius

"You must be very educated or certain if you can see somebody who cannot cope a CWS and then do not sell a CWS to this person."

-Once again, i must say, that still too many breeders sell pups to totally wrong persons. There is many things from where you can see, or feel, if person is not the right one for CsV. AND: how many breeders tell the truth from the breed? I think, not so many. CsV is not the easiest breed to handle, and every breeders responsibility is to tell about that. CORRECT. Even, if people after truth decide not to take pup,(not to take the breed) is better for pup, breeder and people to make decision BEFORE pup will move to new home, than AFTER 1 year. Breeders sell pups in age of 7 weeks without negative experiences (mainly) but after 1 year, as all had went wrong, breeders get back a REAL PROBLEMATIC DOG, and- worst ones- sell these dogs again, and again without telling real problems. Of course, not all breeders are like this, but too many.

-If dog comes back to me, i will go to see mirror. IT WAS MY FAULT APPRAISAL, i thought, new owner would be good enough- it wasn't. Next time i should be more careful, cause, as Mirka said, these dogs are not for homechanging, if any dog is.

And i must say, in Finland is more "wrong owners" for this breed, because of our dog culture, than in middle of Europe.
(comparing amount of CsV;s we have momentally in Finland, in problems, we already have here, unfortunatelly)

-Suski

Hej suski
Tell us the story about Wolfie, please

Rick

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Hej suski
Tell us the story about Wolfie, please

Rick

off topic, Rick - but nevertheless I remember your words:" contact met de fokker heb ik in dit geval vermeden".

So what?

Angelika

[the pack]

It is a bit off topic, but not entirely, because it's about responsability. I send you a private message.
Rick

[solowolf]

hi, i have recieved message from friend in France, seems the photos of the kennels at de louba tar has had an effect, i am told that the kennels have been very busy for a few weeks now, lots of cleaning and tidy up, i see also dogs for sale on wolfdog.org and other sites, i said this is great news for the dogs, then i find out to day that people want to go to de louba tar and visit to see conditions,,,,,,, knew it was to good to be true,, so if you are one of the visitors going to the kennels it would be nice to see some photos of the excercise areas, we can compair photos and see any improvments, also if you can count the dogs, then ask where they are kept at night, the kennel block has 24 kennels so if we double up that is beds for 48 dogs,, you can also ask to see breeders licence? and the papers from french ministry stating the number of dogs she is allowed to keep at the kennels, it will be nice for people to visit, you can ask to see pomme, skog and zasa zen, these are all pure bred registered saarloos that have been used in de loba tar breedings, well they are saarloos arnt they? do let us all know what you think? you may be very lucky and see sid laird chakka lou another saarloos being well used for breeding. happy new year to all have nice day in France. regards paul

[Azazel]

I wonder why this topic hasn't been closed down yet?

[farena]

I´m goint to answer to michaelundinaeichhorn. I think that the conditions in which this animals are living are horrible. But for me is not so important that they are mixed with shaarloos, or another kind of dog. For me the most important is the bad condittions they are living in. Inma.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by farena

I´m goint to answer to michaelundinaeichhorn. I think that the conditions in which this animals are living are horrible. But for me is not so important that they are mixed with shaarloos, or another kind of dog. For me the most important is the bad condittions they are living in. Inma.

I agree with you that if those conditions are this horrible it is of first priority that they get help. But this would be just one more case of abused dogs (what is one too many) but if the CSW are not purebred but mixed with Saarloos there are a lot of countries with a huge problem - they have based a lot of breeding on dogs that may host hereditary problems we didn´t know before and different to Saaloos mixed with CSW this will cause more health problems than before, apart from untypical dogs. This would be a long term problem and Germany is the only country that made every-year eye tests obligatory. What means it is till now the only country that will recognise heriditary eye-problems in an early state - but we don´t have any dogs out of these lines in breeding till today and no breeder here would use those dogs.
Those genes seem to be recesiv, what means they can be carried and spread over several generations till they happen to get obvious. For the breed this is of much greater importance than even 109 abused dogs - if they are living under such horrible conditions, what we don´t know for sure till now.

Ina

[Boelie]

Besides, you defend the French breeder... Fine, but two things surprise me:
First: you don't seem to worry about the welfare of de Louba Tar dogs. How would you feel IF it turns out that Paul was right and he (and others involved) will win the case in court (or whatever they plan) What will your reaction be IF Paul manages to proove that the dogs were kept in terrible conditions? Will you still defend the breeder and attack Paul? Or will you apologise him? Remember, we're talking here about living creatures. It's not an academic discussion!

Mind you: I'm not saying that this will happen for sure, but wouldn't it be wiser to withhold your judgements before you and we all learn more about the case and Paul's 'action' is brought out to the public?

Secondly: you accuse Paul of hypocrisy, bad intentions, hidden agenda, call him names while in fact we don't know where the truth lies. Your attitude and blind defence is weird to me and makes me wonder what YOUR intentions are? National loyalty or common interests with the breeder? Are you aware that you're risking your own reputation? If she loses the case you'll be disregarded by the majority of CSV owners community, not only in France.

And I wonder.... How would you all feel if Paul was wrong....?
Will the disregarded members of the CSV owners community start their own splinter-group? With Paul as their leader?
Please, people, start thinking for yourselves and try not to judge anyone becouse ONE person accuses another...
I have read this topic with growing amazement about how easily all you people (some exceptions offcourse) judge and get emotional about a place you have NEVER been, owned by a lady you have NEVER met or talked to.
Let this Paul fight his own fight with Mrs. Keizer and give your spicy opinions only when you know ALL the facts. Try to hear both sides of this story. Be a little bit more like your intelligent WOLFDOGS and follow your own judgements, you own eyes and your own ears, instead of following the one that makes the most noise... stop behaving like SHEEP...

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Boelie

And I wonder.... How would you all feel if Paul was wrong....?
Will the disregarded members of the CSV owners community start their own splinter-group? With Paul as their leader?
Please, people, start thinking for yourselves and try not to judge anyone becouse ONE person accuses another...
I have read this topic with growing amazement about how easily all you people (some exceptions offcourse) judge and get emotional about a place you have NEVER been, owned by a lady you have NEVER met or talked to.
Let this Paul fight his own fight with Mrs. Keizer and give your spicy opinions only when you know ALL the facts. Try to hear both sides of this story. Be a little bit more like your intelligent WOLFDOGS and follow your own judgements, you own eyes and your own ears, instead of following the one that makes the most noise... stop behaving like SHEEP...

hi Boelie, i look forward to getting your views very shortly, my fight is not just with MRS Keizer but putting the largest puppy farming ring in europe to an end, these breeders are cross breeding and causing lots of health problems in dogs, to register a cross bred dog as a pure bred dog is illegal,,, to bred from unhealthy stock knowing it carries defects that will come out in the pups is bloody mindlesness, and to sell them on to unwary customers is blatent fruad and desception, everyone is entitled to there views, so i have a question for you , if you live in france and you breed a litter of pups in france can you take them at 6 weeks old to a house in holland get them chipped register them under someone elses kennel name then bring them back to france to sell them? simple question you tell me if this is correct in europe please? regards paul

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Hi,

sorry folks, but this is a forum for Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.
I'm more concerned about, although Paul's pics still look disgusting to me, is the fact that Ms Keizer has turned the CSW's coming from her different kennels within 12 years or so into a type of dogs which are hardly CSW's according to the standard. Both in character and phenotype.
Many of them look and behave very Saarlooslike.
Either something happened on purpose or she is just a pathetic breeder.
And doesn't know much about CSW's.
The latter I can prove through a personal talk at a dog show.
But I think the first two points are a topic worthy to be discussed on this forum, since our breed is unfortunately involved.
What I, as a breeder and lover of CSW's definetely not want is the character and the not counted diseases of many Saarloos Wolfdogs.
Even purebred CSW's are not free of health problems as often written.

Michael

hi Michael, good post, so as i know lots of people see these dogs and they are different, want to know something, i know most of these dogs and all have pedigree and are registered as czechoslovakian or saarloos wolfdogs, this means they will be used to breed to other czechoslovakian and saarloos thus destroying type temperament and health in both breeds,, waken up breeders in europe, these dogs are being bred into our breeds, it is there for all to see just open your eyes, look at the breeders she works with and you see also the non standard dogs, and they are being bred and sold all over europe, paul

[Boelie]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi Boelie, i look forward to getting your views very shortly, my fight is not just with MRS Keizer but putting the largest puppy farming ring in europe to an end, these breeders are cross breeding and causing lots of health problems in dogs, to register a cross bred dog as a pure bred dog is illegal,,, to bred from unhealthy stock knowing it carries defects that will come out in the pups is bloody mindlesness, and to sell them on to unwary customers is blatent fruad and desception, everyone is entitled to there views, so i have a question for you , if you live in france and you breed a litter of pups in france can you take them at 6 weeks old to a house in holland get them chipped register them under someone elses kennel name then bring them back to france to sell them? simple question you tell me if this is correct in europe please? regards paul

Hello Paul,
From reading the posts in this topic, correct me if I'm wrong, it seems to me that your fight IS with Mrs. Keizer. If this is meant to put an end to puppy farms all over Europe, what are the names of the other farms you have taken legal actions against? What are the names of the owners and where are the pictures of these other kennels?
For your other question, I am not aware of the law regarding the chipping-regulations and the use of kennel-names. I am not a breeder
And are you saying that her whole stock is unhealthy and carrying defects that will come out in the pups?
This would mean that no good dog could come from there?
As for my earlier reply; what I was referring to were those people who immediately juge a person becouse someone else (in this case you) say they should...
It would be wise to find out the whole story from both sides.

hi folks sorry to butt in on this thread but at times my posts do not get printed, some photos of the de louba tar kennels in france, i have held these back from you all for legal reasons but now action has started to put an end to the french breeder CORRY KEIZER i can let you see the real truth behind this breeder, here are just some pics from her kennels, WARNING some pics may cause distress but you must see them if you would like a copy of the full disc email me your address and one will be posted, also there are other issues regarding the registration of litters that will be released very soon, thank you p winder uk

This seems to me like a fight with Mrs. Keizer only?....

[Mirkawolf]

So Paul, it has been about a month since your first post about the situation in the Louba Tar kennels. Where is your action? When will be all the informations and hard facts, you talked about, finally revealed?

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

So Paul, it has been about a month since your first post about the situation in the Louba Tar kennels. Where is your action? When will be all the informations and hard facts, you talked about, finally revealed?

when the radd or dutch kennel club get there finger out, they will decide on there action, we only wait to see if they run or help,,, as for me i wait on my friends from europe, if it was my decision and up to me, it would be in court to day, and in every dog mag and paper i work with, but i must wait while others who know more do there job, it is frustrating for me but i give my word to these people who have been collecting evidence for OVER 4 YEARS,,,, i give evidence on Mrs Keizer and 2 other kennels, it is signed and i am prepared to go to Holland when asked, but there are lots more involved that even i dont know about, my friends have all the facts and evidence on these breeders, every thing must be 100% correct, there are a few loose ends to finnish then all will be correct for court,, if this was in uk, the photos i show would be enough to close de louba tar down, no court needed she would be banned from breeding and owning any animals for life,,, but there is lots more, breedings, registrations, if it were a few dogs it would be great but it involves over 150 dogs and each dog has to be checked for certain things, this will give you some idea of the massive task and why it has taken years and not weeks, these are clever and devious people who have tried there best to cover there tracks for the past 12 yrs or more, they are not stupid and know some very clever and respected people, we must be very careful as one mistake could cost the case, so please wait like i must, but i give my word to all, it will happen, regards paul

[Azazel]

Hi Paul,

May i ask who you're working with then?
Are they breeders like you, who are gaining from the closing of mrs. Keizers kennel?

Regards,
Barry

[Nebulosa]

People, this topic will be closed until Paul have news about this history.
Is possible find replies for some questions in this topic, if still remain doubt's is possible send a private message or a direct mail for Paul.
Please be patient.

[bengan]

I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything regarding the actions Paul had supposedly had taken towards a breeder in France?
I know the discussion was closed.. but I think an update is justified.. Paul made quite some accusations … I think a follow up, especially if his accusations have not been proven, is fair and necessary.



regards,
Bengan

[Nebulosa]

I told him the topic will be opened when he have all proofs officially as the DNA exams, i'm only waiting the confirmation PM for this.
I wonder is why soo many times for a DNA exams...

[bengan]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

I told him the topic will be opened when he have all proofs officially as the DNA exams, i'm only waiting the confirmation PM for this.
I wonder is why soo many times for a DNA exams...

I find it strange that he has not been online or has used the forum for the last few months.. the longer it takes the less believable/credible her appears.
You could think that he was just making empty accusations, it's a shame..

Bengan

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by bengan

I find it strange that he has not been online or has used the forum for the last few months.. the longer it takes the less believable/credible her appears.
You could think that he was just making empty accusations, it's a shame..

Bengan

my husband paul is in Holland this week along with others making there last statements for the kennel club, we also know that mrs Keizer is still up to her old tricks, mrs Keizer has no breeders licence, anyone can check this out by phoning the Frence ministry regarding animals, my husband has all paper work with him or i could give the number, mrs Keizer has recently bred a high wolf content dog called Skog( which bye the way is registered as a pedigree Saarloos) to a bitch called Rubis, ( again registered as a pedigree Saarloos) The pups where born in France then move to Holland at 6 WEEKS of age, this is illegal in Holland,,,, so it will be very interesting (1) to see if the pups are registered as pure Saarloos (2) to see where mrs keizer registers them in Holland or France (3) to see if she goes down as breeder or some other kennel name is used, bye the way to all you people in Holland, Check this out how come Mrs Keizer has TWO AFFIX (kennel names) registered with dutch kennel club,,,,,,this is fact,,, before i go just to prove all i say is true here is the link to the silly friend of Mrs Keizers who slapped this all over the internet to see,, http://www.niawolf.blogspot.com/ sorry this person may not be silly but just another inocent victim of decite that now thinks she owns a pure bred dog, have a look and see if you really think Skog and Rubis are true Saarloos, we know where both animals where bred and by who, this is all illegal and very unfair to new owners and to the Saarloos breed who others work very hard to do selective breeding to keep them pure, we have tried to contact this person but can not as no details come up, thank you for your time regards mrs m winder

[bengan]

Originally Posted by solowolf

my husband paul is in Holland this week along with others making there last statements for the kennel club, we also know that mrs Keizer is still up to her old tricks, mrs Keizer has no breeders licence, anyone can check this out by phoning the Frence ministry regarding animals, my husband has all paper work with him or i could give the number, mrs Keizer has recently bred a high wolf content dog called Skog( which bye the way is registered as a pedigree Saarloos) to a bitch called Rubis, ( again registered as a pedigree Saarloos) The pups where born in France then move to Holland at 6 WEEKS of age, this is illegal in Holland,,,, so it will be very interesting (1) to see if the pups are registered as pure Saarloos (2) to see where mrs keizer registers them in Holland or France (3) to see if she goes down as breeder or some other kennel name is used, bye the way to all you people in Holland, Check this out how come Mrs Keizer has TWO AFFIX (kennel names) registered with dutch kennel club,,,,,,this is fact,,, before i go just to prove all i say is true here is the link to the silly friend of Mrs Keizers who slapped this all over the internet to see,, http://www.niawolf.blogspot.com/ sorry this person may not be silly but just another inocent victim of decite that now thinks she owns a pure bred dog, have a look and see if you really think Skog and Rubis are true Saarloos, we know where both animals where bred and by who, this is all illegal and very unfair to new owners and to the Saarloos breed who others work very hard to do selective breeding to keep them pure, we have tried to contact this person but can not as no details come up, thank you for your time regards mrs m winder

so we can expect some new in the very near future.. ??

Question.. if the dogs are not registered in France but in the Netherlands.. why would she need to have a breeders license for France..?
She is registered with the dutch kennel club as a breeder and fills all the requirements that are needed, http://www.raadvanbeheer.nl/uploads/...rochureHKB.pdf (sorry but its only in dutch)

As far as I can tell, looking through all the rules from the dutch kennel club.. there is nothing that says a dog has to be born in the Netherlands in order to receive a dutch pedigree/registration..

As for the accusations regarding "Skog" not being a saarloos.. I believe that is one of the accusations that Paul is trying to prove.. so in all fairness, you shold wait until there has been a judgment.

I still have a few open questions.. regarding your "Club" .. Paul stated that all breeding is witnessed by 2 members and that your club is documenting everything in the hoop that the CWD will someday be accepted/recognized in the UK and that all the dogs that you have breed without an official pedigree up will then be recognized.
My questions were ..
how many members are there?
what is the name of your club..? (have not been able to find any info - google or otherwise)
Is the club registered and is it possible to see the official club charter?
Who are the board members and when were the elections..?

Normal information that one could find on say a club website.

Looking forward to your reply.
Bengan