Bonitation in Holland

[Koos]

Hi,

I agree that you have to prepare the dog for the bonitation and Mijke said, that it is hardly possible to do the bonitation for Dutch dogs. That is the problem in Holland, because mostly of the Czech owners are not going to a dogschool and when they are going, most of the trainers of the dogschool don't know what kind of dog it is and because this race need a specific trainingsmethod, they often say, that it is not possible to train with such a dog.
Of course you can do a lot by your own and a CW, which is good raised up and stabil in his mind can do the bonitation, like Dvorack did.
Therefore we are proud he has done this bonitation and he is not the first dog from Holland.
Otherwise, our club is not happy with the bonitation, because they say that a dog, which has done the bonitation, is an attacking dog.

Letty

[Pavel]

Originally Posted by KoosLetydeGraaff

is hardly possible to do the bonitation for Dutch dogs. That is the problem in Holland, because mostly of the Czech owners are not going to a dogschool...

Its a reason, why many people dont understand, whats about we speaking, if say "prepare to bonitation". Its not means to training in dog school only. Dog must be not trained to go to bonitation but must be good socialisated first. And its me sorry to say, but mostly in abroad (excl. CZ, SK and partly PL as well) is not problem "non trained dog" but SHY dogs, which shows, that owners dont socialisated dogs enough.

Originally Posted by KoosLetydeGraaff

Otherwise, our club is not happy with the bonitation, because they say that a dog, which has done the bonitation, is an attacking dog.

Sorry, but if somebody says such words, then shows, that have no basically knowledges about the cynology and ethology of dogs. Bonitation is not about agressivity or attacks. Bonitation in first row testing the self confidence of dog and his socialisation as well. I heard some times the stupid idea, that if is dog attacked from figurant, the is the best, when he dont defence self. What creatures want to have such people ? Normally living creature have a survival instinct and self defending instinct. So that if is attacked from other creature, then defending self. Its a basically princip of life. And the same is it on bonitation. If figurant goes only by dog, dog may not react. But if figurant attacking, then the dog MUST defend self hard.
Please, dont support ideas, which make from our dogs a toys. We are proud, that our wolfdogs are very inteligent and that have strong naturaly instincts. But on other side we see, that some people pushing down this inteligence and instincts. If somebody want to have a creature, which will be 100% obedient, without any instinct and reaction, then I recommending to buy some robot like http://asimo.honda.com/ . Its a best solution for such people and not a living creature like our beautiful wolfdogs.

Pavel (with very agressive dogs, because with P1 code by bonitation )

[massimo]

I saw Dvorack's bonitation.
He is a wonderfully equilibrated and socialized dog and this allowed him to pass. CONGRATULATIONS!!
It's true it is not NECESSARY to train your dogs befor bonitation (you were in Lazne with Dvorack and trained him a little, right?).
It's however usefull to attend these positive summer camps, just to try and see how your dog reacts to certain imputs.
(it's also very enjoyfull, see the photos!!
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/gallery/pic21021.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/gallery/pic21020.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/gallery/pic21019.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/gallery/pic21018.html)

To pass bonitation, if I understood well, your dog mustn't ATTACK, but simply mustn't react cowardly and hide. Shy dogs often don't pass even if trained...

Massimo

[mijke]

?????????

I am also from Holland, and I did with one of my CsW's the youth bonitation in CZ (she got P3).
And I only got congratulations and a lot of interested questions of several people in Holland

I did try to explain as much as possible about the bonitation and I did write some articles about this (to tell dutch people how they can prepare their dog)

And I did never hear of the dutch club that I have an attacking or agressive dog now!

And it would surprise me very much when this is the opinion of the dutch club...
Because I was on the bonitation with one of the members of the board of the dutch club (my friend Flip) And he did not have this opinion at all

And untill today he did not get any of this crazy comments of other members of the board.

greetings,
Mijke

[Koos]

Hello Mijke,

I will discuse this point with you in privat and i will tell you something about this,

Letty

[Meisel]

I will tell you now,Flip has been accepted as a member of the board recently,so how would he have known wat the opinion of the board of Csw is.
Also he is not a policy maker,so what Flip thinks will problibly not be heard by the rest of the board [Sorry Mijke but you know that is the truth]
The fact is that the other members of the board dont dare to send one of theire dogs to a bonitation because of the outcome of it.
So fore that reason the make up an idiot point of view that a Csw would become agressive from a bonitation
It shows again that with a Dutch dog you can do a bonitation,and as you know Dvorack is not an agressive dog but a very kind one.

[f.hatzman]

Originally Posted by Meisel

I will tell you now,Flip has been accepted as a member of the board recently,so how would he have known wat the opinion of the board of Csw is.
Also he is not a policy maker,so what Flip thinks will problibly not be heard by the rest of the board [Sorry Mijke but you know that is the truth]
The fact is that the other members of the board dont dare to send one of theire dogs to a bonitation because of the outcome of it.
So fore that reason the make up an idiot point of view that a Csw would become agressive from a bonitation
It shows again that with a Dutch dog you can do a bonitation,and as you know Dvorack is not an agressive dog but a very kind one.

I am very surprised with this post. Mr. Meisel is not a member of the Dutch club, he doesn't know me (only from the face, we have never talked about CSW's and my knowledge about wolfdogs). And to finish this it is very strange that somebody who has never been to any clubmeeting will know about the relations in the board. Maybe he is talking with somebody elses tongue? Mr Meisel also seems to know why somebody does or doesn't join bonitations, shows and so on. He can earn a lot of money with this capability ! Please people let us not talk and question about other people but join in and help each other when possible. I think we all have the same goal: keeping the CSW breed good and healthy with a pleasant charactre. From the beginning that I am interested in CSW's all the people I met are very happy with their dogs and want the best for the breed. Problems always come when somebody wants to tell somebody else what to do or don't.
I wish you all the best!
Flip Hatzman (member of the board of the CSW club in the Netherlands - recently)

[Meisel]

I speak with my owne tongue,and not with someone elses,lets make that very clear!!
Its true that i am not a member of the dutch csw club and because of that i can say what i think.
Its commen knowlege how things are runned in the board of the Dutch Csw club [Ask some saarloos wolfdog owners,they know them well from the time they where in their board]
I get my info from everywhere,so dont try to point this in a certain direction,I SPEAK FORE MYSELF!!!!!
But lets make a deal at next yaers bonitation ,some of the board members winning dogs will participate and we will see how many will pass,because thats in my opinion the real reason they dont want to do bonitations.
Also the reason that i never talkt about Csw with you was that you didn`t had one[only Mijke who trained them,but i never saw you at training].
I also didn`t questiond your knowledge about Csw,i just asked myself what your input could be in the Dutch Csw club,because your experiens with Csw isn`t much more than 3 years [i`m not saying that my experiens is bigger,but i am not a "member of the board"].