in the U.S.

[wolfdogs16]

there are very few clubs. most of them are kept very quiet due to the general uneducated population protesting against the wolfdog. The fear is that it will bring "outlawed" status to them. In the U.S...the State has a policy, but the counties and municipalities can also add their policy. Example: in VA, wolf dogs are legal and considered a "domestic dog"...but in the county just north of where I live, they are "banned" for ownership.

[Hanka]

Yes, we know it. "Thanks" to producers of wolfhybrids in US have new owners of CZ wolfdogs problems with registration thear pups with pedigree in US.

[GalomyOak]

If you are interested in meeting a CSV in person, Wolfdogs16, we are located not too far down from you, in Gloucester, on the Middle Peninsula. We imported our dog, Anthea, from the Czech Republic. Our dog is licensed and vaccinated, as a dog, with her correct breed name, with our county. The breed is recognized by the Foundation Stock Service of the AKC, something that other wolfdogs in the US can not claim. Our dog is in the process of being registered with the FSS. We requested that her papers reflect her breed's native name of Ceskoslovensky Vlcak, rather than Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, mostly so we would not draw the attention of our homeowner's insurance (it is legal to own hybrids in my county, with a permit, just in case a problem should ever arise, but we are very responsible, so I do not foresee that). The FSS agreed to register Anthea under the name of Ceskoslovensky Vlcak, and I believe is planning to convert the name of the breed officially - the lady we have been corresponding with at FSS, said to check the website, it would be reflected soon...I hope the name change does not present a problem for any of the other owners in the US...I see it as a positive.

Our dog's behaviour is very predictable, and very much that of a dog - the culmination of the hard work of very strict and knowledgable breeders over many decades. I had the opportunity in college to work with a grey wolf education/reintroduction program, and our dog acts in no way as the wolves did. Our dog participates in basic obedience (just for socialization, she already knew all the commands that are taught) with the local AKC kennel club, and will be starting agility in May. She is an angel with my husband's cousins (ages 5 & 7), and is friendly, though aloof with new faces. It doesn't take her long to warm up though, and she is always out in the yard to greet cars that pull up. She plays fetch with strangers (if we are in the yard, however, she brings the toy to us - she is incredibly loyal). She barks if there is something worth barking at, especially if she is confined and cannot investigate up close. She also enjoys venturing out with us - at the beach, in Petsmart, at local festivals, and is always very obedient.

I'd have no problems with someone coming to meet with us this summer - although I am not sure we have solidified our plans - John Slawek has been very gracious in trying to locate an appropriate setting - would you be planning to bring a hybrid with you? I don't know if that might cause issues...

Again, if you are interested in meeting our dog, I'd be happy to get together one weekend.

Marcy

[wolfdogs16]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Yes, we know it. "Thanks" to producers of wolfhybrids in US have new owners of CZ wolfdogs problems with registration thear pups with pedigree in US.

Im here as an ambassador, and I'm not a bad guy. Don't think for a moment I support bad breeders, bad owners, and unethical display of wolfdogs in the U.S. I use my high mid content (my avatar) as an good will wolfdog, in education, and support of the "breed". Ive been fighting this battle since 1984....

We don't call them "wolfhybrids"..only the uneducated here do... a hybrid cant reproduce.......and a hybrid is a cross between two species, the dog and the wolf are same species.... its a wolfdog.

Henceforth, maybe thats the conflict... the local Animal Control facilities , and Fish and Wildlife now refer to them as wolfdogs..... and you call your breed a wolfdog...... catch 22

[saschia]

Originally Posted by wolfdogs16

... and you call your breed a wolfdog...... catch 22

Well, that's because it is the name, name vlciak (in Slovak) or vlcak (in Czech) means a dog with wolf-like exterior. It is often (although incorrectly) used by general public also for german shepherds. Wolfdog is a direct and very correct translation.
Although wolves and dogs are the same species, there is a very important difference between wolf/dog and dog/dog "mixes", while there is almost none or very little difference between wolfdog/wolfdog, wolfdog/dog or dog/dog "mixes". Therefore referring to a wolf/dog "mix" as to wolfdog is not correct. And please take into account that the term "wolfdog" is older than our knowledge that wolf and dog is actually the same species. Therefore if abandoning the incorrect term wolf-dog hybrid, officials should find their own and new term. Maybe wolf-dog cross. But definitly not wolfdog.

[roo]

wolfdogs16,

I'm afraid I will have to disagree with one portion of your definition of "hybrid".

I may need to go back and crack open my 8th-grade biology textbook, but I'm pretty sure that the ability to reproduce (fertile/infertile) is not one of the defining characterisitics of the classic term "hybrid". I know that most people are familiar with one of the more common examples, horse + donkey = mule (sterile), but I beleive that this is just one example outcome and not necessarily the rule. Hybridization occurs all the time in nature, albeit plant, animal, natural, forced, or test-tube engineered. Most of the time the natural "cross-breeding" occurs as a result of population shift due to ecological changes.

I read your statement indicating that you use your efforts in education and support of the "breed", however I was confused as to which breed you were referring to. If you would elaborate, I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to get a better understanding of your particular situation.

Please feel free to contact me via private message, we can exchange email addresses, and I'd be more than happy to try and answer any of your questions about the Czechoslovakian Vlcak breed, its origin and 50+ year history, and my CSV experience in the United States. I would love to hear from you and am always eager and willing to share more about this very unique European breed!

Thanks,

Robert

[wolfdogs16]

Originally Posted by saschia

Well, that's because it is the name, name vlciak (in Slovak) or vlcak (in Czech) means a dog with wolf-like exterior. It is often (although incorrectly) used by general public also for german shepherds. Wolfdog is a direct and very correct translation.

Although wolves and dogs are the same species, there is a very important difference between wolf/dog and dog/dog "mixes", while there is almost none or very little difference between wolfdog/wolfdog, wolfdog/dog or dog/dog "mixes". Therefore referring to a wolf/dog "mix" as to wolfdog is not correct. .

1st paragraph. i understand.

2nd paragraph.. I dont understand...other than, there is a difference, both physical and behavior in a wolf-dog mix.... those differences, however..vary greatly in the amount of wolf in the dog... the physical difference will be pretty much depended on content, ie: 50% wolf 50% dog.. you will have half wolf physcical characteristics... but... the content of wolf spred to the pups from a gene standpoint can vary greatly. For instance, lets take the perfect match up: a wolf and dog. they mate. 3 pups are born... one of those pups might act almost totally like a dog... another may act like a wolf...and the third may act like an even tempered mix... thats because the genes inherited vary so much.

We see nothing wrong with the term "wolfdog" is a wolf and dog mixed... there is DNA difference between a pure wolf and a dog...

[wolfdogs16]

Originally Posted by roo

wolfdogs16,

I'm afraid I will have to disagree with one portion of your definition of "hybrid".

I may need to go back and crack open my 8th-grade biology textbook, but I'm pretty sure that the ability to reproduce (fertile/infertile) is not one of the defining characterisitics of the classic term "hybrid". I know that most people are familiar with one of the more common examples, horse + donkey = mule (sterile), but I beleive that this is just one example outcome and not necessarily the rule. Hybridization occurs all the time in nature, albeit plant, animal, natural, forced, or test-tube engineered. Most of the time the natural "cross-breeding" occurs as a result of population shift due to ecological changes.

I read your statement indicating that you use your efforts in education and support of the "breed", however I was confused as to which breed you were referring to. If you would elaborate, I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to get a better understanding of your particular situation.

Please feel free to contact me via private message, we can exchange email addresses, and I'd be more than happy to try and answer any of your questions about the Czechoslovakian Vlcak breed, its origin and 50+ year history, and my CSV experience in the United States. I would love to hear from you and am always eager and willing to share more about this very unique European breed!

Thanks,

Robert

In prior definitions of the term "hybrid", fertile animals were part of the scenerio, but with the change in term to "hybrid = a mating of two difference species" infertile comes into play. This is all recent. have you seen the "liger"....(tiger/lion cross), even those species is the same, its infertile.... there are gray areas all over the term.. but its accepted that a hybrid is a cross between two species... and when the dog and wolf were determined to be the same species, USDA stated a cross between a wolf and dog is not a hybrid........... we ran with it. the term "hybrid" instills the "old fear" of the wolfdog cross.

well, "breed"..we both know the wolfdog in the U.S. is not a "breed".. but it just a term used to describe the animal sometimes..........no more no less. The "breed" is domestic by definition, but not in all states... we never expect the wolf dog cross to become a breed, there are too many variables in the blood lines, not only the wolves involved, but especially the dogs involved....

[roo]

Changing word definitions, issues with language translations, same species but differences in DNA, casual use of the word "breed", etc.

I think we can all understand the potential for confusion and miscommunication under these circumstances. I greatly respect your rescue work and the commitment that it must take for your organization concerned with the well-being of various American wolf and dog crosses.

As I believe it has been clearly shown here, our discussions on this forum are focused on the European Czechoslovakian Vlcak breed. A lot of information on the origin and history of this breed can be found on this page if you are interested: http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/44.html

It is my experience and belief that many of the issues pertaining to various legal definitions in the U.S. that you have referred to are not applicable to the Czechoslovakian Vlcak breed. As such, the discussion of your specific issues on an international forum dedicated to the Czechoslovakian Vlcak will probably only create more confusion with the aforementioned differences in definitions and international translation.

However, I sincerely wish you the best and hope that your efforts to improve the welfare of neglected or unwanted animals is successful. Good Luck!

-Robert

[wolfdogs16]

I take it you know the Texas Two Step.

I merely joined this forum to exchange information between fellow canine owners resembling the wolf, which I have a passion for and support on all fronts. I have always admired your breed and simply came here to exchange communication. For some reason, you have put up a road block. Maybe you did not read my other posts on other sections. I have defended your animals on more than one occasion with authorities and saved the owners from legal action.

I am here as a friend. Not to stir trouble. You are adding ingredients to the pot that I would not add, nor intend to add.

peace.

[cindy23323]

I'd have no problems with someone coming to meet with us this summer - although I am not sure we have solidified our plans - John Slawek has been very gracious in trying to locate an appropriate setting - would you be planning to bring a hybrid with you? I don't know if that might cause issues...

Again, if you are interested in meeting our dog, I'd be happy to get together one weekend.

Marcy

I'm also in Va. and own American wolfdogs, I'm curious as to what you meant by it might cause issues?

[wolfdogs16]

Originally Posted by cindy23323

I'm also in Va. and own American wolfdogs, I'm curious as to what you meant by it might cause issues?

I got a private email from John, and he asked if I would/could bring my wolfdog, of course, I had to tell him what a car sick bad traveler she is....but he did not mention a "problem". Wolfdogs are legal in VA. And, yours and mine are ambassordors and as well behaved as any good natured pure dog...

To all, speaking for Cindy and myself, most people welcome meeting our animals, its a good thing, and educational as well. As busy as our normal rescue schedules are, if the time could be found to get together with owners of the animals here, I think it would be a very positive thing to happen. just my 2 cents.

[cindy23323]

Two of my guys I take to the local Dog Park here everyweekend, everyones alwasy amazed by them, they get along great with all the doggies, big and small there. If for some reason any of them dont like my high content Loki hes really well behaved, he will automatically lay down letting them know he doesnt have a problem with them.

[cindy23323]

Here's a small video of my high content at the doggie park, watch what he does, the white lab snapped at him a couple times.Thats not a muzzle he's wearing by the way its just a halti, its the same thing as a gentle leader, its used to teach animals that like to pull to stop. He can open his mouth all the way while wearing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMAhT5ppwPQ

[johnslawek]

Wolfdogs16,
Upon reviewing my mail-No! the gesture of an invite was to you, not you and your wolfdog. We have exchanged mail, and upon exploring your web site kindly consider the invite withdrawn. Your wolfogs and the CSV are at cross purposes. I do not intend to engage in an imbroglio, but do strive to set the record straight. The CSV is not and has not ever been in trouble in the States. As such the CSV does not require a defense to the authorities as you have insinuated in your writings. The inconsistencies and stretches are unnecessary. We CSV owners in the States are attempting to coalesce into a small group with a single purpose of advancing the CSV in the States. The CSV is a registered breed as supported by authentic documents. Thus zero help to dispel any fears with this fine creature is not requied. I have had experience enough with both CSV and wolfdog to know that the CSV has no relation to the American hybrid. I wish nothing but the best for your organization and respect your zeal as a rescuer of wolfdogs. Unfortunately there is no mutual benefit to our meeting, and fostering false incentive would only waste your time.
Regards, John Slawek

[Hanka]

Ha ha ha John. I sold one puppy male to Seattle. When behind common control owner told to veterinary doctor it is czech. wolfdog, he started to have problems. Before it he was a few time by doctor for vaccinations and other normal visits and doctor told him- it is sweet puppy, friendly, quite....I told him- tell to all doctor it is some sheepdog mix and you will have not problems.....Is big different between our pure breed and "wolfhybrids". Sorry, but it is common word here. Don´t watch- if it is "right word" or no.(Last sentences are not for John)

[wolfdogs16]

Originally Posted by johnslawek

Wolfdogs16,
Upon reviewing my mail-No! the gesture of an invite was to you, not you and your wolfdog. We have exchanged mail, and upon exploring your web site kindly consider the invite withdrawn. Your wolfogs and the CSV are at cross purposes. I do not intend to engage in an imbroglio, but do strive to set the record straight. The CSV is not and has not ever been in trouble in the States. As such the CSV does not require a defense to the authorities as you have insinuated in your writings. The inconsistencies and stretches are unnecessary. We CSV owners in the States are attempting to coalesce into a small group with a single purpose of advancing the CSV in the States. The CSV is a registered breed as supported by authentic documents. Thus zero help to dispel any fears with this fine creature is not requied. I have had experience enough with both CSV and wolfdog to know that the CSV has no relation to the American hybrid. I wish nothing but the best for your organization and respect your zeal as a rescuer of wolfdogs. Unfortunately there is no mutual benefit to our meeting, and fostering false incentive would only waste your time.
Regards, John Slawek

It's not the "csv" thats the trouble, is the uneducated members of various animal control authorities who sometimes misslable the animal as a wolfdog...and the folks mentioning the wolffog word. And I have defended the csv, you have no idea to what extent I am involved in the wolf and wolfdog goings on here. I happen to be a Federal Govt. employee of 34 years. And I am quite aware, as I have stated in many other posts here, that there is no relation of the CSV to the American wolfdog.... I was merely pointing out the common use of the term "wolfdog".

No problem. Take care of your animals and good luck.

[saschia]

Originally Posted by wolfdogs16

2nd paragraph.. I dont understand...other than, there is a difference, both physical and behavior in a wolf-dog mix.... those differences, however..vary greatly in the amount of wolf in the dog... the physical difference will be pretty much depended on content, ie: 50% wolf 50% dog.. you will have half wolf physcical characteristics... but... the content of wolf spred to the pups from a gene standpoint can vary greatly. For instance, lets take the perfect match up: a wolf and dog. they mate. 3 pups are born... one of those pups might act almost totally like a dog... another may act like a wolf...and the third may act like an even tempered mix... thats because the genes inherited vary so much.

No it is not lie that. The first generation will be almost the same, because all puppies have one copy of each gene from its mother and one from its father. But, the difference between wolf/dog and dog/dog offspring is marcant, because the behavioral phenotype of wolves is more dominant than that o dogs. You will get animals that, if not introduced to something in very young age, will be afraid of that, unlike dogs and woldfogd (menaning the breed).
Only in F2 generation is there a possibility of 25% of pups (if the genetics of behavior are Mendelian, which they are not) behaving like a dog (while they can look completely like wolf).

But, if you work with wolf/dog mixes,than you should know that there is a big difference between behavior of such animals (and the higher the wolf content the bigger the difference usually) and dogs.

[saschia]

Originally Posted by wolfdogs16

In prior definitions of the term "hybrid", fertile animals were part of the scenerio, but with the change in term to "hybrid = a mating of two difference species" infertile comes into play.

This is mostly true, but as far as I know, crosses between wolves and jackals, although there is no doubt that those are two separate species, are fertile. Infertility is not a result of speciation, but mostly the reason. It is mostly due to different number of chromosomes, which cannot recombine properly and therefore not create functional gametes.

Originally Posted by wolfdogs16

... and when the dog and wolf were determined to be the same species, USDA stated a cross between a wolf and dog is not a hybrid...

Funny, why is then the rabbies vaccine not accepted for wolfs and wolf/dog mixes? As far as I know, this is the major problem in keeping wolf/dogs in some states...

[jaygorto]

my dog is the friendliest dog i have ever owned. very friendly towards all dogs and people. She does bark or snap back though if a dog gets in her face or snaps at her. I do a lot of off leash hiking and mt. biking w/ her also and besides chasing deer which is usually corrected she is great off leash.