'Wolfdogs' of unknown origin - CzW or not?

[massimo]

This time small condensed translation of what Mrs Leclerc wrote in French:

She writes in french because doesn't know english well enough to reply to certain statements which regard her directly.

For what Vorss is concerned, she has no problem to authorize DNA control, although it is not useful as there is no information about his parents. Info would be incomplete because we do not know his personal "genetical" info

SHe contacted Limonest genetic laboratories: they replied that the genetical identification markers are those of dogs, but they do not identify the breed, so they do not allow to know 100% if Vorss parents are hybrids or wolves.
She will contact "service for research and development" to ask if she can get further information and publically engeges herself to let us know their reply.

[massimo]

This is my small personal comment:
I am positively surpised to see such open discussion from a breeder about how she workes, usually breeders reply to do your own business and to gain experience before critisizing or even commenting their work.
This doesn't mean I agree with her work of course, I find it risky to breed on dogs who's parents are unknown.
Surely the "goal" of Mrs Leclerc is totally different from that of the "mutara project", although a process for LIR has been made...and after LIR there is LOI, meaning official papers and freedom to breed within the breed itself.
This scares me a bit and make me think and suggest to all others to look very carefully at what dog you are purchasing, to be very careful when you see dogs with tricky or not 100% known ancestors on Pedigree.
Massimo

[Konrad:)]

Originally Posted by Pavel

... Other thing is, that Mutaras were stopped in CZ,....

We have been discussing, discussing and the result is:
Brno (Cz) 28/06/2008

CAC, CACIB - Sangria Passo del Lupo (in the front)





end for example - CAC: Eury z Peronówki (in the back of the first picture) and here:





.............

[wolfin]

but if Vorss is not real wolfdog - not cann breeding hem and say - "i breed wolfdogs."

maybe i cann this make - i have very beautiful.... animals in me frend zoo and cann his registr like wolfdog not know pedigree and breed like wolfdogs and have very wolfish dogs.

but this NOT BE wolfdogs- this is mix. and this is all dogs from this breeding is not wolfdogs but mix- wolfdogs x ? not know who.

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by wolfin

but this NOT BE wolfdogs- this is mix. and this is all dogs from this breeding is not wolfdogs but mix- wolfdogs x ? not know who.

Il est trés dangereux de parler sans savoir, c'est même une profonde preuve de bétise humaine !......
Tous les chiens de mon cheptel ont des origines connues, (seul Vorss, n'en possède pas)
Il ne faut donc pas généraliser à l'ensemble de tout mon élevage !!!!

Sachez Mme que si j'avais voulu faire du business, sans réfléchir, avec Vorss j'aurai fais de multiples portées .....ce qui n'est pas le cas !....sur les 4 chiots de sa descendance 3 sont stérilisés et 1 vit chez moi sans reproduire !.....

Alors un peu de prudence dans vos propos !

Originally Posted by Translation

Is dangerous talk without know, this is a deep proof of human stupidity!....
All the dogs of my kennel have know origin ( only Vorss dont)
Not generalise to all my kennel!!!!
Know that if I wanted do busines without thinking, I woud make some litters with Vorss... wich is not the case! .... of his 4 puppies 3 are castrated and one live with me without be used in reproduction.

So, a little bit of care in what you write.

[Pavel]

Please, dont write here other language. Its a english forum. Its seriously warning. In other case I must close the forum for person, which dont care our rules.

[koomak]

don't worry Lorry, they are not objective ! they said that only for getting you some trouble !

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Please, dont write here other language. Its a english forum. Its seriously warning. In other case I must close the forum for person, which dont care our rules.

OK ! I shall not speak any more on this English Forum.

You speak about rules to be respected ???: OK !

I, my personal rule : it is to speak always openly, not to take advantage of the language barrier to speak ill on a person without knowing how to, and respect the freedom of expression!!!!

Then please respect this rule, there also.....

On the French Forum, there are often interventions in English and that raises no problems

Lorry de MLS

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

I too think if someone is attacked and only can reply in his own language and wait for a translation he should get this possibility.

Ina

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

I too think if someone is attacked and only can reply in his own language and wait for a translation he should get this possibility.

Ina

Thank you for your stand in this sense....
Initially nothing obliges me to have to justify me on the question of Vorss, his only litter, or other subject concerning my breeding.
I make him, by respect for others ,and parceque I consider that it is important, to have a dialogue openly

I admit that I am going to revise my position and my way of reacting to any piece of news story "attack"

Lorry de MLS

[Nebulosa]

Hi lorry
The problem wasn't your reply, but the lenguage you write when you know english properly to read.
You can see that english isn't the mother lenguage for the most part of the participants, and biggest part of then are from different countries so, this is a international forum, you can find people here from Spain, Germany, Brazil, France, Polish, Czech Republik, Slovak, Lituans, fell people here write english perfectly like one USA or UK person, if someone missunderstand you, is only you explain again, and, if this isn't enough, so won't have problem in write in French in this case and wait for a translation.
But... can you imagine if Wolfin start to write only in Lituan because maybe she not write perfectly english? or because maybe she fear be missunderstood? We will get crazy trying to translate and almost nobody will understand! We will need wait a good hearthed Lituan translate it.
I know that we can find some different lenguages reply in one specific lenguage forum, that's common and sometimes isn't a problem, because different of the english forum, French forum as exemple isn't sooo international, almost all participant's live in France, talk or write french, so will be only someone translate and end of the problem... is a french forum anyway... but here if you can write in French because is more easy... Wolfin can write in Lituan too... ....is only an exemple.

[massimo]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Please, dont write here other language. Its a english forum. Its seriously warning. In other case I must close the forum for person, which dont care our rules.

Excuse me Pavel but each post by lorry has been translated, is that still a problem? if she can express herself best in her own language doesn't she have the right to do it?
If you are so strict (but allow trolls to write Idiocies and spreading shit all over people's reputation without signing themselves) not to allow somebody to protect their image although in their own language, I invite Lorry to send her posts to me directly, i will translate them in English for her.

...life is ridiculous sometimes...
massimo

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Hi lorry
The problem wasn't your reply, but the lenguage you write when you know english properly to read.
You can see that english isn't the mother lenguage for the most part of the participants, and biggest part of then are from different countries so, this is a international forum, you can find people here from Spain, Germany, Brazil, France, Polish, Czech Republik, Slovak, Lituans, fell people here write english perfectly like one USA or UK person, if someone missunderstand you, is only you explain again, and, if this isn't enough, so won't have problem in write in French in this case and wait for a translation.

I know that the forum is english ant that it is the common language in wich it is necessary to speak, BUT the presented subject in a public way, with my quoted name, is too important for me.
I explained why I wanted to give my point of view in my own language...

I already have to undergo the judgment (sentence) of others, read that I make crossings and I am inescapable to defend myself and to answer in a language that I not mastery not ????

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

But... can you imagine if Wolfin start to write only in Lituan because maybe she not write perfectly english?

You speak about Wolfin? OK!
If I had to be interested in what she, makes, to criticize her, or to speak about her, I shall make him, in HER language so that she can objectively answer me.
The big difference, between us 2 notably, it is because my past of jurist, drives me to accuse never or to speak about what I ignore that is to French breeders or not!.....

Slts
Lorry de MLS

[wolfin]

ooo labai malonu, kad Tamsta noretumet su manimi kalbeti mano kalba, galim pakalbeti apie Voors ir kitus Jusu sunis.

if You will speak with me lithuanian i am very happy and cann this make

i know and to me is better speak in me language but if not have massimo help i and others have little problems- not unterstand who You will say. only this make problems. others - is others diskusions.


regards

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by massimo

I invite Lorry to send her posts to me directly, i will translate them in English for her.

Thank you M. Massino ......Very kind ! .....

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by wolfin

i know and to me is better speak in me language but if not have massimo help i and others have little problems- not unterstand who You will say. only this make problems. others - is others diskusions.

The difficulty writing in English is a thing......
But, for what I blame you more particularly it is to write false assertions on my subject.....

You have already asserted on WD, in public, that my dogs were not radiographés, now you say that I make croisiements !!!!

You come to my breeding ? You know me personally to speak so about me ?
I take charge of you ? I critque you? ......

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Lorry - MLS

The difficulty writing in English is a thing......
But, for what I blame you more particularly it is to write false assertions on my subject.....

You have already asserted on WD, in public, that my dogs were not radiographés, now you say that I make croisiements !!!!

You come to my breeding ? You know me personally to speak so about me ?
I take charge of you ? I critque you? ......

hmm i see Yours work - cann this name Yours breeding and this information is for me alls who i mas have to know You whe breeders.
i not mas cann't Your and drinking with You martini

p.s.
this is not problematic make - i see data base and see- dogs have or not have HD ED exam, have or not have bonitation, have or not have working exams

p.s. i see in WD - You have 11 wolfdogs with pedigree and 2 eeee... dogs.
You have litters and parents from Your kennel not have HD, ED exam and sertificate, but have puppies.

maybe - dogs have only in WD not be results. but now- i see only this - dogs who not have ED have pups.
ant this is ok? this is to breed good future?

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by wolfin

p.s. i see in WD - You have 11 wolfdogs with pedigree and 2 eeee... dogs.

Your certainties with regard to me almost make me smile so that becomes stupid as behavior.....

Know dear Madam that on 11 dogs which you evoke, 4 are not even any more for my breeding ......

Be kind, stop asserting things without being safe(sure) of the fact that you advance(move) and do not take for ready cash what is noted on Database who is far from being up to date, as for me !.....

[wolfin]

when WD data basa is falsh - this is only Yours problems, when Yours not wish make this Ok.

but me question and whe You say "atack" is about HD ED exams.

maybe You have 1 or 100 dogs i see not HD ED results

[Navarre]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Please, dont write here other language. Its a english forum. Its seriously warning. In other case I must close the forum for person, which dont care our rules.

Many times Margo wrote in english into the italian forum (and his messages were very appreciated), so I think you can be more...flexible