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Breeding Information about breeding, selection, litters....

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Old 13-09-2007, 01:16   #1
Margo
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Default Stud dogs - IMPORTANT!!!!

New changes are coming... maybe even improvements..

Because a number of stud dogs increases rapidly - in some countries the requirements for studs are minimal (sometimes it's enough when the dog has pedigree - sometimes even that is not required). So in order not to loose breeders' precious time we decided to make their life easier and we did some "screening". So....

1**** from stud dogs listing we removed PERMANENTLY all dogs that contains unknow ancestors in their pedigrees. It means that wolfdog.org will NEVER advertise litters coming from ancestors of doubtful origin (it affects dogs that are registered with unknown origin).

It involves also 'MUTARA's (and their italian 'version') - NONE of their offsprings (even when 'Mutara' will be in 50th generation) will not be advertised. Also NONE of the litters where the breeder owns so called Mutaras (illegal wolf crossings) or Mutara offsprings. This will be programmed into the site.
In the future database every database card of EVERY dog that contains unknown ancestors will have notice that WARNS before its possible use in breeding... Wolfdogs are not a "natural" breed which was developing for centuries and you can't meet them in "nature". We know origin of EVERY wolfdog and we do not need unknown individuals which can bring potential faults in health, exterieur and character...

2**** from the stud dogs listing we remove all dogs that do not have HD results (Hip Displasia). This requirement is fundamental - every responsible breeder will not breed on dogs without HD results independently of requirements in their country.

At the same time all dogs with HD results that are not confirmed will disappear too. So if your dog has stud dogs status, has HD results and it does not appear on the list we ask you to contact us and send copy of OFICIAL HD results....
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Old 13-09-2007, 19:03   #2
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Great work Margo
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Old 14-09-2007, 00:57   #3
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Originally Posted by Margo View Post
New changes are coming... maybe even improvements..
I wrote it wrong way... We have equality of rights for the same apply also to females... Females with UNKNOWN origin and without HD-results will be no more marked as "breeding bitches".

IMPORTANT - breeders which own females without HD-check will DISSAPEAR from the kennel list... I verified the results by ENCI and removed ONLY females which are not in their database... So most of you do not have the reason to worry about...

So - if you have a stud dog with HD-check and he is NOT on the stud dog list 'Elenco dei riproduttori'
....OR.....
you are a breeder and you are not on the kennel list 'Allevatori'
please get in contact with us so we can fix it....


About the HD-results - you can submit them on three different ways:
1) You can scan the result and send it via email
2) You can make a photo of the result and send it via email
3) you can make a copy and send it as a letter to us
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Old 14-09-2007, 12:57   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margo View Post
So - if you have a stud dog with HD-check and he is NOT on the stud dog list 'Elenco dei riproduttori'
....OR.....
you are a breeder and you are not on the kennel list 'Allevatori'
please get in contact with us so we can fix it....
Is this "witch hunt" directed only at Italian dogs, or are you going to apply the same also on French, Belgian, German and other wolfdogs, who are being happily bred on without HD results? I think some equality in the countries would not hurt, either.

Right now, at this moment, Wolfdog.org has no problem to advertise Slovak litters with parents without known HD result:
http://www.wolfdog.org/ces/litters/702.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/ces/litters/707.html
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Old 14-09-2007, 13:39   #5
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Originally Posted by Mirkawolf1 View Post
Is this "witch hunt" directed only at Italian dogs, or are you going to apply the same also on French, Belgian, German and other wolfdogs, who are being happily bred on without HD results?
In the fact the italian "witch hunt" has nothing to do with it... Anyway it was not the reason... We had this idea already 2 years ago but first now we have finally the possibility to make the changes... More will follow...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirkawolf1 View Post
Right now, at this moment, Wolfdog.org has no problem to advertise Slovak litters with parents without known HD result:
It is you fault - all Slovaks litters are made with HD-checked parrents... but we have problems to update the database frequently. It is the reason that by some dogs the HD-results are missing. The same with kennel names...
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Old 14-09-2007, 13:59   #6
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Originally Posted by Margo View Post

It is you fault - all Slovaks litters are made with HD-checked parrents... but we have problems to update the database frequently. It is the reason that by some dogs the HD-results are missing. The same with kennel names...
Why would it be my fault, that you have problems to update the database? That is your fault, guys.

For a person who does not know your troubles, there is no difference. The dog does not have HD results named, so the litter should not be there. Not everyone knows, what conditions are in Slovakia.

The same way, some Italian dog or other dog can have HD results, but the owner had "problems to update Wolfdog.org on the results", for example. You will kick that litter out. But you will not kick Slovakian one, because YOU know, the dogs are probably x-rayed.
No wonder, some people get seriously pissed about this.

No HD results, no advertisement. For everyone. That would be equal.
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Old 14-09-2007, 17:42   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirkawolf1 View Post
..... German and other wolfdogs, who are being happily bred on without HD results?
You are wrong, Mirka. There is no German breeder (listed on wolfdog.org) who is breeding without HD results.

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Old 14-09-2007, 18:03   #8
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Originally Posted by Mirkawolf1 View Post
The same way, some Italian dog or other dog can have HD results, but the owner had "problems to update Wolfdog.org on the results", for example. You will kick that litter out.
For italian dogs is very simple to verify : you can see official results published on italiain kennel club website ( www.enci.it)

For other litters I think that is simple too for the breeder to send a copy of HD results to WD to have this litter published.Even if the databsse is not updated !

I think we all should respect MORE the hard work of the webmasters of this site. (Is not to you Mirkawolf, but too often we read something bad about WD on italian forum )
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Old 14-09-2007, 18:06   #9
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Originally Posted by AngelikaMenzel View Post
You are wrong, Mirka. There is no German breeder (listed on wolfdog.org) who is breeding without HD results.
Angelika
I did not say, that that there was at the moment any German breeder listed, did I?
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Old 14-09-2007, 18:12   #10
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Originally Posted by Navarre View Post
I think we all should respect MORE the hard work of the webmasters of this site. (Is not to you Mirkawolf, but too often we read something bad about WD on italian forum )
Considering the fact, that my husband is still technically one of the admins,
I have an idea about the hard work on this site and also the reasons, that made him to give up on it
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Old 14-09-2007, 18:16   #11
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there may be a misunderstanding so ... let's try to understand:
Margo, will litters WITHOUT official HD results, may that be in slovakia or italy or germany or lithuania or werever, be published in the near future?
Like the two mentioned by Mirka for example.
i believe that her statement is undoubtly correct:
"For a person who does not know your troubles, there is no difference. The dog does not have HD results named, so the litter should not be there. Not everyone knows, what conditions are in Slovakia. "
So, just a straightforward question:
I think, in this case, the luckiest of all will be actually the italians, because margo can check easily the HD results or we can just send a hardcopy of the official data on site.
Because, if i'm not wrong, margo said that NO HD will be considered official if the written proof is not shown.
Please let us know your position.
massimo

Last edited by massimo; 14-09-2007 at 18:18. Reason: added a quote!
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Old 14-09-2007, 22:00   #12
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Quote:
But you will not kick Slovakian one, because YOU know, the dogs are probably x-rayed.
No wonder, some people get seriously pissed about this.
No HD results, no advertisement. For everyone. That would be equal.
Quote:
I did not say, that that there was at the moment any German breeder listed, did I?
You wrote about Slovakian litters but the same is with litter of Michael:
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/696.html
and Helena:
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/678.html

You would like to kick both litter out only because publishing of litter advertisment goes faster than updating the database (both males are HD-checked, both HD-A but the results are not visible in the dabase at the moment)...

I really do not mean cases where I THINK the dogs have hips checked but dogs where I KNOW the dogs are checked...

But to be honest we speak about TWO things only at the moment - kennel list and stud dog list: there will be NO stud dogs on the list which are not x-rayed. And there will be no kennels listed which have female without HD (of course it apply only the breeders whic own one female).
X-rayed dog is not a dog which is PROBABLY x-rayed. But a dog where we have CHECKED information and proofs it IS x-rayed.

So for example we will not BAN dogs like Art because I have the COPY of the x-rays of Art (HD-A) and the only problem is the database is not updated... He is not PROBABLY HD-A but he is for 100% HD-A.... We will not punish people for the problems connected with update of the database....

Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo
Because, if i'm not wrong, margo said that NO HD will be considered official if the written proof is not shown.
Exactly.... at the moment we are checking the dogs - to verify almost 10.000 wolfdogs will take a while but finally I thing the results which we get already are more than satisfactory. Leater we will verify the working certificates...

Not everything is working great, and not everything is wonderful and fine. Wolfdog.org will be NEVER finished - when we will make something we will find 100 new things which we will try to add here...
At the moment we will make two changes - I think for good. Maybe some more will come. But it is not about PUNISHING people... Sure we can already tell we will publish ONLY litters where the dogs have HD-check, ED-check, bonitation, PRA-check, 40 km run, some show titels and at last one passed working exams. But how many litters will be on this list?

The idea for the changes was following - to HELP the people.
Which responsible breeder would use a stud dog without a HD-check? NOONE. So we removed the chaff from the stud dog list...
This way we removed from the kennels list all 'accidental' breeders. It was not though to remove as many as possible...
About the litter list: so far we didn't advertised litter of non-FCI kennels. And there are two more changes - we will not advertise litters from kennels which breed mixes of all kinds and dogs of unknown origin... We will not advertise info of litters from kennels which do not send any info about the puppies, which only are interested in selling puppies and make profits....

We have much more ideas, maybe there will be more ideas given by the users, maybe it will be possible to ad some of them... Maybe... anyway not at the moment...
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Old 15-09-2007, 21:05   #13
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Margo this is an ingenious idea. This will not only perpetuate Czw as a purebreed but, spread the breed across the world(even more so than now). People who want to buy a healthy purebreed Czechoslovakian WOLFDOG will have a place to come to and can be assured that there are no mix breeds. Plus a place to tell them everything about a Czw. This will make it easier for people to buy in turn making more money for the breeders. Even though i know most of you guys (and I) advocate learning about the breed before buying. I would already consider this fourm/website the centrifuge of the Czw. Now more so than ever.
About the updating of the website. I think that you should wait for the breeders that havent had time to send you the new requirements. Maybe send a email to them all or posting a deadline. then after take a day-off work and situate this major task. I know more easier said than done.
Another thought about these Mix bred Czw, maybe you guys can make a SEPARATE forum and have a link in this forum. Stateing that they are MIX breeds. Im sure there are people that want something like a cwz but with maybe different characteristics. Probably the reason why the breeders began doing this.
Anyways i just wanted to say that this is a great idea. i cant wait till its done so i can buy a Czw. Keep up the good work.
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Old 06-11-2007, 09:29   #14
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Hello Margo, Przemek.
I have one question: you wrote, on the list of males for breeding will be dogs for breeding. Now I see on the list of italian males, there are 128 males for breeding. But I see, there are males without bonitation code, without X-ray results, with disqualificed bonitation code...... Really in Italy is 13 males for breeding only. Why are in the list 115 males more? They are not for breeding, they are wolfdogs only. (I know, maybe they are for breeding in Italy, but it is not what we want......) Not all exist males are good for breeding. We don´t want quantity, but quality.
But it is not situation on italian list only......
Thanks for your explain.
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Old 06-11-2007, 23:17   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanka View Post
Hello Margo, Przemek.
I have one question: you wrote, on the list of males for breeding will be dogs for breeding. Now I see on the list of italian males, there are 128 males for breeding. But I see, there are males without bonitation code, without X-ray results, with disqualificed bonitation code...... Really in Italy is 13 males for breeding only. Why are in the list 115 males more? They are not for breeding, they are wolfdogs only. (I know, maybe they are for breeding in Italy, but it is not what we want......) Not all exist males are good for breeding. We don´t want quantity, but quality.
But it is not situation on italian list only......
Thanks for your explain.
Please don't forget that "youth" bonitation code allows dogs to be present in this list but everybody knows that Youth bonitation code is NOT a bonitation code...many dogs from many countries, not only italy...would disappear!!
there was also the idea to publish on wd ONLY the litters from parents with all the requested data: bonitation (ADULT one...), verified HD results....
if this happens more than half of the published litters disappear....
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:56   #16
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hmmm, but only question.
if breedings in this coutry not demand bonitation to breed? and in this case this litter is...unlegal?
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Old 11-10-2008, 23:16   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margo View Post
New changes are coming... maybe even improvements..

Because a number of stud dogs increases rapidly - in some countries the requirements for studs are minimal (sometimes it's enough when the dog has pedigree - sometimes even that is not required). So in order not to loose breeders' precious time we decided to make their life easier and we did some "screening". So....

1**** from stud dogs listing we removed PERMANENTLY all dogs that contains unknow ancestors in their pedigrees. It means that wolfdog.org will NEVER advertise litters coming from ancestors of doubtful origin (it affects dogs that are registered with unknown origin).

It involves also 'MUTARA's (and their italian 'version') - NONE of their offsprings (even when 'Mutara' will be in 50th generation) will not be advertised. Also NONE of the litters where the breeder owns so called Mutaras (illegal wolf crossings) or Mutara offsprings. This will be programmed into the site.
In the future database every database card of EVERY dog that contains unknown ancestors will have notice that WARNS before its possible use in breeding... Wolfdogs are not a "natural" breed which was developing for centuries and you can't meet them in "nature". We know origin of EVERY wolfdog and we do not need unknown individuals which can bring potential faults in health, exterieur and character...

2**** from the stud dogs listing we remove all dogs that do not have HD results (Hip Displasia). This requirement is fundamental - every responsible breeder will not breed on dogs without HD results independently of requirements in their country.

At the same time all dogs with HD results that are not confirmed will disappear too. So if your dog has stud dogs status, has HD results and it does not appear on the list we ask you to contact us and send copy of OFICIAL HD results....
Good work !!!

But way don´t require HD and ED on ALL dogs that is used in breeding and sold on this lovely site ???

Best regards / Mikael
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Last edited by Mikael; 12-10-2008 at 01:22.
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Old 12-02-2009, 20:08   #18
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Default Stud dogs - IMPORTANT!!!!

What is needed for a male dog to be considered a stud dog/breeding male ?
Because in the stud dog list here on WD.org there are some dogs without bonitation and HD-results, so I was wondering what is needed to be considered a stud dog/breeding male ?

Greetings Rolf

Last edited by Juniorwolf; 12-02-2009 at 20:10. Reason: edit text
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Old 12-02-2009, 20:13   #19
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Hello rolf,
I don´t know what you need in your country. Every country has a little different conditions for males- as breeding males.
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Old 12-02-2009, 21:07   #20
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Hello rolf,
I don´t know what you need in your country. Every country has a little different conditions for males- as breeding males.
Hello Hanka,
In Denmark is only needed 2.place in national or international dogshow in Denmark for CSW. ...But I was thinking on the list of stud dogs here on WD.org, maybe this was not the right place for this question ? ...sorry !

Greetings Rolf
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