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Old 01-04-2005, 05:56   #1
Wolfpup
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Default Breeding back to the GSDs

Hi, I'm new around here and I have a lot of questions about this CzW. But first things first and I had this thing long in my mind. Has anyone tried breeding the CzW with the GSD? How was the temperament of the pups? Did they look more wolf than dogs? Will wolf blood cancel out the modern GSD's problems like dysplasia, skin diseases and whatever?

Hope to hear from the gang...

Al Reanto
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Old 01-04-2005, 11:52   #2
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Default Re: Breeding back to the GSDs

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Originally Posted by Wolfpup
Will wolf blood cancel out the modern GSD's problems like dysplasia, skin diseases and whatever?
No - there are already too many problems by German Shepherd Dogs. And it is the main result why so many breeders are even against an idea to cross a CzW and a GSD. The puppies from such crossing look mostly more like GSD and most of them still have the same health problems.

Simply said: maybe such puppies are much more healtier than GSD. But they will be never as healty as CzWs....
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Old 01-04-2005, 15:46   #3
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Default Re: Breeding back to the GSDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpup
Will wolf blood cancel out the modern GSD's problems like dysplasia, skin diseases and whatever?
No - there are already too many problems by German Shepherd Dogs. And it is the main result why so many breeders are even against an idea to cross a CzW and a GSD. The puppies from such crossing look mostly more like GSD and most of them still have the same health problems.

Simply said: maybe such puppies are much more healtier than GSD. But they will be never as healty as CzWs....

I agree, Margo. In my opinion, most German Shepherd's dogs of today aren't even half as much as that of yesteryears. Now I said most because I have heard some around kept by some individuals who had "kept the faith", so to speak, and had kept their stock from being bred by modern sickly lines.

I know it's going to be by a long shot, but one has to make that first step. Hartl did and thus you have your CzW. Remember, GSDs were used in that breeding.

Best regards...
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Old 01-04-2005, 23:02   #4
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Default Re: Breeding back to the GSDs

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Originally Posted by Wolfpup
Hartl did and thus you have your CzW. Remember, GSDs were used in that breeding..
Right. But all of them were from working lines...
I know there are still GSD which look "normal", and are "normal" and healthy. I don't want to generalize..
But we just have bad experiences. Best example is the last crossing of wolf and GSD comming from "modern" line (do not mislead it with "show line" ) in 1983. After so many years there are still some HD problems in this line. And the last "project" Mutara - we will also not use it to "cure" the breed because of the GSD there....

But back to GSD. I don't think if it is good idea to cross both breeds. The dogs are simply too different. I think it would be better to search for a healty GSD from working line. I saw many very nice GSDs with good body, good health and very good working abilities. I'm sure none of the GSD owners would be happy to have a GSD with character of CzW...
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Old 03-04-2005, 01:45   #5
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Default Re: Breeding back to the GSDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margo
Right. But all of them were from working lines...
I know there are still GSD which look "normal", and are "normal" and healthy. I don't want to generalize..
But we just have bad experiences. Best example is the last crossing of wolf and GSD comming from "modern" line (do not mislead it with "show line" ) in 1983. After so many years there are still some HD problems in this line. And the last "project" Mutara - we will also not use it to "cure" the breed because of the GSD there....

But back to GSD. I don't think if it is good idea to cross both breeds. The dogs are simply too different. I think it would be better to search for a healty GSD from working line. I saw many very nice GSDs with good body, good health and very good working abilities. I'm sure none of the GSD owners would be happy to have a GSD with character of CzW...

Sorry, Margo, I was not able to get back to you. Yes, I'm beginning to realize it might indeed be futile for obvious reasons. You and Rona had been of big help. Thanks for your inputs.

Back to the GSDs, my GSD (and Mals) are of working stock, out of old bloodlines that have been known to have done service work. Some of my dogs may have had sporting background from previous breeders or owners, but I made sure they still possess those raw drives for real work, then worked to the best I can back to get them back to REAL as they should be. The pups are born , raised and developed in all facets of work in the "harshness of the land", so to speak, making them physically and mentally tough to begin with. That is their foundation.

As such, I see striking similarities in terms of character with the CzW, that arose my interest with the breed. The character "flaws" of the wolfdog described here are likewise found with some dogs and can be readilly addressed and made positive by proper training. The intelligence that GSDs are historically well-known for may even be surpassed by the CzWs, once properly developed. I wonder if GSD blood has made that possible. Just my assessments born out of learning about the breed.

I have yet to know if there are existing SAR groups that made use of the CzWs and gain feedbacks from them. I believe any form of scentwork is just about the easiest and most natural the CzWs could do.

Best regards...
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Old 03-04-2005, 03:01   #6
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Default Re: Breeding back to the GSDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margo
But we just have bad experiences. Best example is the last crossing of wolf and GSD comming from "modern" line (do not mislead it with "show line" 8) ) in 1983. After so many years there are still some HD problems in this line.
margo, please, can you back your thesis with some facts? i don't want to get off the topic, but i'm quite curious about this.. looking at some pedigrees, one would say that hd problems descend from somewhere else..

e.g. jean kysucka hviezda, hd a(0/0), has 7 gens back that lejdy x bojar cross; whilst josefina eden severu, hd d(3/2), and her mother inka z litavske kotliny, hd c(2/1), do not come from that cross.. see this example as a jean + josefina complete graphic pedigree

i know that 3 dogs don't make any statistics, but that's why i query you for more.. thanks

charlie
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Old 03-04-2005, 08:18   #7
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I would imagine if it was done properly you would have something more like a Czech Shepherd (you can google search). They do look different from CWD's
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Old 04-04-2005, 00:22   #8
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if there's anyone interested in graphic full pedigrees.. since i have no chance now to edit that invalid link in my former post, please use this form instead.. (only czech version so far..)
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