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View Poll Results: Litters with unknow HD-results: should be removed?
Yes 20 54.05%
No 17 45.95%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 28-10-2008, 20:17   #1
Mikael
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Default Litters with unknow HD-results: should be removed or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margo View Post

The same is with HD-results. In Czech Republic the club choosed the good way and publish all HD-results. They are fair and hide nothing. But what is the result - in some cases the Czech breeders are worser evaluated than some breeders from other countries which send only good HD-result and spread the information "my puppies are much better than the Czech because in CZ some have HD and all my dogs are only HD-A or HD-B"...
I guarantee you than many puppy buyers will choose let say French kennel with 50 dogs bred where you have only 5 dogs with HD-results all of them HD-A (and maybe 10 other dogs which were tested but the results are hidden because the dogs were HD-C, HD-D and HD-E) and not the Czech kennel where the breeder has 20 puppies - 15 tested with HD-A and HD-B and let's say 3 dogs HD-C. Because in the first case they will see only HD-A results, and by the Czech kennel they will see HD-A, HD-B and HD-C...
Hiding results really works and it is also the reason why so many breeders do not want to publish all information...
Yes I agree, but way do you let them sell puppy´s on this lovely site whitout HD results at all ??? when it clearly destroy´s the breed.

Best regards / Mikael
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Old 29-10-2008, 11:42   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael View Post
Yes I agree, but way do you let them sell puppy´s on this lovely site whitout HD results at all ??? when it clearly destroy´s the breed.
To be honest we still think about it - because to be honest NO GOOD BREEDER WILL BREED WITHOUT HD-RESULTS...
So if the Wolfdog-users are for it we will make it so and remove ALL litters with unknown HD-results by the parents...

It is YOUR decision....
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Old 29-10-2008, 11:48   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael View Post
Yes I agree, but way do you let them sell puppy´s on this lovely site whitout HD results at all ??? when it clearly destroy´s the breed.
One more remark: such problem do not exist for litters in Czech Republic, Slovakia and Germany because there the Clubs solved it: you can not breed dogs which are not HD-tested.
So there is only the question of publishing litters from Italy, France, Holland and Hungary (in Poland we solved it on unofficial way and with one exception all breeders use only x-rayed dogs )...
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Old 29-10-2008, 13:22   #4
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In my humble opinion - the litters of parents, who are not HD tested should not be announced here Is there a possibility, lets say, to vote about ir on wolfdog.org?

(In fact i think that also litters of not bonitated parents should not be announced here, but I also understand there would sooooooo little litters then...)
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Old 29-10-2008, 13:31   #5
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Default Litters with unknow HD-results: should be removed or not?

Please vote....
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Old 29-10-2008, 13:35   #6
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Should be announced, to avoid "hiding things", but with a big warning marked along .
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Old 29-10-2008, 14:04   #7
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Hmmmmm, good idea... i think, we want (I hope) to do our breed better. So I mean: Not liiters without HD results and not litters without bonitations....It is hard, but we want to have CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOGS and not "some wolfdogs".
Maybe Margo, you will have problem with not complette database. But-maybe- some "producers" will start "to breed" wolfdogs. If no, not pitty of theese dogs....It is nothing good for breed. Look at offer of breeding males: how much males have HD result AND bonitation ???
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Old 29-10-2008, 14:06   #8
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Hi hi, sorry , I am a litlle OT: the nervosite start to be bigger, because nobody react to adds here (on Wolfdog) of "some" breeders and they are a little in a panic
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Old 29-10-2008, 14:32   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanka View Post
So I mean: Not liiters without HD results and not litters without bonitations....It is hard, but we want to have CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOGS and not "some wolfdogs".
First we can do what is POSSIBLE to make... X-rays can make everyone in his country.
To make bonitation it is not so easy because you can not to travel 100 km (as in Czech Republic) to the next bonitation but sometimes 1000km or 2000km... When the club will start to organize bonitations in their own countries and it would be no problem for everyone to make this test we will also make it as the condition to have litter posted here....
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Old 29-10-2008, 14:33   #10
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Quote:
Maybe Margo, you will have problem with not complette database.
No need Hanka. You would just have different part in the DB: "green part" and "red part"... it's better to track the most possible.
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Old 29-10-2008, 14:39   #11
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I think it would be at shame not to have a complete database.

Not all countries have law saying that you must have HD or bonitation for your dogs to breed, even I think it would be better for the breed if it was like that, but in all matters(not only for the good of our breed) everybody will have a lot more benefit with helping people in the right direction by giving them a hand and argue for what we think is best for our breed, instead of excluding them ! Not all have to have the same ideas and opinions like me to be my friends, when you turn your back at people they don`t have a chance to improove, why not help them instead ? in this way we will have a better and stronger breed at the end and maybe other countries will follow the example of Czech rep., Slovakia and Germany ?
This is my opinion !

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Old 29-10-2008, 14:55   #12
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But Margo, in EVERY country can be club for this breed and this club CAN do bonitations. But I see how BIG problem it is somewhere.
And I think, of course, in every country is some doctor what can do X-ray result.
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Old 29-10-2008, 19:26   #13
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You know what I think Margo...

Throw them out the back ...

Best regards / Mikael
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Old 29-10-2008, 20:07   #14
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Sorry, I missunderstod...

Maby it would be enough to not let them sell litters on this site ???

Regards / Mikael
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Old 30-10-2008, 11:21   #15
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I voted no, because I understood the question as whether the litters from not Xrayed/bonitated parents should or should not be included in the database and visible to anybody. But I thing they should not be included in advertisement of puppies.
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Old 30-10-2008, 12:20   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saschia View Post
I voted no, because I understood the question as whether the litters from not Xrayed/bonitated parents should or should not be included in the database and visible to anybody. But I thing they should not be included in advertisement of puppies.
I voted yes...

But I think like you, it would be better whit a complite database and not let them sell the puppies whitout HD results.

This way in a short distance future all breeders will add the HD results to the database by (free) will.

Best regads / Mikael
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Old 30-10-2008, 12:40   #17
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Hmmm. And: what we can see from adds on this site. In this moment is there 74 adds. 47litters have parents WITHOUT bonitation. It can be potentential danger, the pups will have some exterier defect, gen defect or parents have too bad character. Hmmmm. 21 litters is from parents (or one parent) without HD result. So pups from 21 litters can be bad for future breeding, they CAN have some problems. Only 29 litters (from 74!) is without problem and new owner will have hogher %, the puppy will be health and OK. Really, good result of short history of our breed.....

But in some countries somebody will NEVER control, if wolfdogs are health and stabil breed. And we will tell to everybody: "Yeees, it is health breed, it is good breed for training, for sports. " ha ha ha

Really sad view to our breed from countries of origin, what hapenned with this breed.

So Margo, I can tell you, what will be result of our voting....29:45 if will vote every person, what have adds here....29 for good future of our breed against 45 of producers. Maybe hard words, but true.
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Old 30-10-2008, 14:45   #18
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my 2 cents:
All litters should be allowed an ad on this site, without HD results, with Bad HD results, without bonitation, even those coming from kennels which Margo decided not to advertise any more ()
To do a good service to buyers, these litters should be showed SEPARATELY!!
Group 1) hd results and bonitation
Group 2) hd results and no bonitation (for some countries bonitation is not compulsory so it is not always "fault")
Group 3) no complete Hd results (even if only one parent has...) and no bonitation.

I believe people would start worrying and want their litter to be in group 1...

Maybe group 1 should have most evidence and the others will appear down on the site and only if you scroll down...

So, NO censoring new litters but distinguishing between breeders who work hard and get results and breeders who don't care.

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Old 30-10-2008, 14:58   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo View Post
To do a good service to buyers, these litters should be showed SEPARATELY!!
Maybe you do not have the problem with "purebreed' dogs without pedigrees in Italy But here in Lithuania people often say "oh, I don't need a pedigree - I won't breed the dog, do not want to go to shows, I just want a purebreed friend and I want it cheap". In the way you recomend we will have "cheaper dogs' list" and "more expensive for snobs". If the litters just will not be advertised, maybe at least 1 "breeder" from 10 will decide to make HD ("if that ugly witch Margo wants that badly" )
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Old 30-10-2008, 15:18   #20
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I analysed the actual litters and, considering "youth" bonitations as not good for breeding (we all know how youth bonitations do not take into consideration certaing factors and shouldn't be considered as valid for breeding...), the new advertisments for litters would look like this:

Group A litters: both parents with HD results and Bonitation

nov-08 1 z Holštejna
nov-08
20 z Údolí ticha
nov-08
20 z Blatnických vinic
nov-08
28 Taabernakkelin
nov-08
30 Waawanyanka

dic-08 1 z Kopá?kova dvora
dic-08
1 od Úhošt?
dic-08
5 von der Wolfsranch
dic-08
15 de Molay
dic-08
19 z Revíru vlk?
dic-08
21 Kuklík
dic-08 22 Polární vlk
dic-08
23 z V?rné sme?ky
dic-08
29 spod ?umbiera
dic-08 31 Braterstwo wilczaków

gen-09 10 z Údolí st?íbra
gen-09
12 Tasha
gen-09
15 la Blackwolfdog Cie
gen-09
15 St?íbrný úpln?k
gen-09 17 Norský vlk
gen-09 20 z Datova ráje
gen-09
24 vom Dreiburgenblick
gen-09
25 z Devínskej g
gen-09
31 Sioux Tala

feb-09 1 Foresta Incantata
feb-09
6 ???
feb-09
17 Olim Palus
feb-09 21 Outlaws Heaven

Group B litters: both parents with HD results but not with Bonitation

ott-08 10 Terre dell'Est

nov-08 10 Yggdrasill
nov-08
22 Sulle Orme del Lupo

dic-08 1 od Úhošt?
dic-08 12 du Domaine de la Combe Noire
dic-08
20 Crying Wolf
dic-08
20 du Domaine de la Combe Noire
dic-08
23 del Montale
dic-08
29 ??? (priv de Angeli)
dic-08
29 du Domaine de la Combe Noire
dic-08
29 Braterstwo wilczaków

gen-09 1 z Peronówki
gen-09
1 Arimminum
gen-09
3 delle Ombre d'Argento
gen-09
16 Grey Diamond
gen-09
18 Casa della Rosa
gen-09
24 vom Westerwälder Berg
gen-09 25 Crying Wolf
gen-09
25 z Peronówki
gen-09
27 Outlaws Heaven
gen-09
30 Wilczy Duch
gen-09
30 Lupi di Monte Morello

feb-09 1 Foresta Incantata
feb-09
15 Foresta Incantata

ott-08 15 de la Mollynière de Lo'Scale

Group C litters: both parents NOT with HD results or Bonitation

nov-08 8 Lupi dei Camurati
nov-08 10 les P'tits Loups d'Amour
nov-08
13 von Neckartal
nov-08
15 ??? (priv Ascheri)

dic-08 1 z Orel Ochrana
dic-08
4 Gardiens de la Cour
dic-08
5 Gardiens de la Cour
dic-08
6 Balze del Lupo
dic-08
10 de la Louve Blanche
dic-08
12 della Vittoria Alata
dic-08 15 von Königs-Terry
dic-08 20 la Valle del Lupo
dic-08
20 Crying Wolf
dic-08
25 il Paradiso del Lupo

gen-09 1 z Orel Ochrana
gen-09
15 Inguz Felan
gen-09
15 de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus
gen-09
15 de l'Ange Gardien de Faujus
gen-09
25 Crying Wolf

feb-09 5 de l'Arche du Férion

mar-09 1 de la Louve Blanche

What do you think?
massimo
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Last edited by massimo; 30-10-2008 at 15:22. Reason: Table problems
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