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Old 14-03-2002, 12:18   #1
JohnMarijn
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Default de Loubar-Tar kennel

Hi Pavel and Philippe,

I'm member of the Dutch Society of CsW and the Chairman is C.A. Keizer. She
is a "top"breeder and owned about 40 CsW and Saarloos Wolfdogs.
She lives in Fench too, in the North near the Belgiun border.
I' ve bought my dog there and the name of my CsW is Kaisa van Rijneckerhof.

John Marijn.
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Old 14-03-2002, 12:30   #2
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Hi, John,

Welcome to the list... I know Cornelia, who lives 20mn from my home before
migrating to the french Ardennes...

If you speak french, don't hesitate to join the french forum too

Philippe
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Old 14-03-2002, 12:54   #3
Xhrista
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The breedername of C. Keizer is " the Louba Tar " and not
Rijneckerhof,and a lot of dogs isn't the same as " top"breeder.

Christa
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Old 14-03-2002, 14:44   #4
Pavel
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Hi friends,
I see, that started here little bit discussion about "top" breeders. I dont like
this word, because always is not 100% true.
You must know, that CsW is a very young race and is not "well-ballanced" in
genetical sense. Its the reason, why you can found in one litter so different
puppies. When today somebody have a "well-ballanced" CsW breed, then is it only
because use often a inbreed. And its a very wrong idea by so small population,
like our race have. Some breeders presenting own breed like "top breed with
excellent exterior, working talent and from HD-free line". Its not true and some
owners of puppies from similary breeders just were suprised, when from so
presentated breed growing up only very average CsW. And with HD is it absolutely
lie, which can make very big problems (some of us know just more examples).
I dont want personalised now. But everybody must know, that CsW is a working dog.
The top dog is the dog, which have not only lot of titles from shows, but have
some working successes as well. We dont need e.g. beautiful dogs, but shy. Its
not a target and its against the breed strategy and standard of race.
If we just want use words "top breeder", then this breeder must "produced" dogs,
they according standard and every litter is more and more improve. Its a really
breed. "Top breeder" live for the race and make a representation. "Top breeder"
keep the all breed regulation (basicaly czech or slovakian breeding regulations -
bonitation and HD test).
Today we see by lot of breeders around the Europe, that they collect the shows
titles only and when e.g. visit some of our CsW meetings, where is training as
well, then this "intersupermultichampions" is shy and only looking for a short
way to running out. Its a not CsW. In standard you can read just in first
paragraph, that CsW "... ...".
I dont want put here a strong critic about a CsW shows outside CZ or SK, but let
me write only my short experience. My Hoky is CsW absolutelly out of standard (I
dont want say, that he is ugly. Not. But according standard have enought
defects.). In CZ or SK can get on shows in the best case valuation "very good".
Outside of countries of origin (CZ and SK) we get always "excellent" only and
today Hoky just have 2 CACIB, 2 CWC (polish CAC), 1 CACA (Austrian CAC) and 2 BOB
!!! Only from italian club shows have always "very good" because there judged
czech club judges. Whats can I say about the shows in other countries today ? Its
comedy only.
And back to basic thema. "Top breeder" come with his dog to czech or slovakian
club show or bonitation and there get the really true valuation of his dogs (of
course "more or less", sometimes more, sometimes less ), we are not a best
objective people in the world as well). Same like by English bulldogs is most
valuable titel from Crufts, then for CsW is it titel Club winner of Czech or
Slovak. And now check the results of club shows and bonitations in CZ and SK and
you will see, who from other countries is the "top breeder".
Care about the race and keep the breeding regulations, its a basicaly target of
every CsW club in every country. E.g. SCTW (CsW club in Switzerland) go just more
years on the good way. Have a strictly breeding regulations, bonitation and HD is
necessary. Germany started just now, after years of big problems, to take a good
direction as well. But other countries and clubs dont move yet and are
practically only the group of CsW owners, no really breeders club.
Think about it.

I see, that I wrote now maybe longest english text in my life ). Sorry.

Pavel
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Old 14-03-2002, 15:30   #5
michaelundinaeichhorn
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Quote:
The breedername of C. Keizer is " the Louba Tar " and not
Rijneckerhof,and a lot of dogs isn't the same as " top"breeder.
Christa
you are absolutely right.
regards,michael
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Old 14-03-2002, 15:33   #6
Xhrista
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Quote:
Hoi Pavel,
it's a long text ,but you write it better than I can,but my hairs go
stand up if I hear the name Topbreeder,most of the time it means
breeding a lot of dogs.

Christa
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Old 10-12-2007, 01:16   #7
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Default de Louba Tar kennel

hi folks sorry to butt in on this thread but at times my posts do not get printed, some photos of the de louba tar kennels in france, i have held these back from you all for legal reasons but now action has started to put an end to the french breeder CORRY KEIZER i can let you see the real truth behind this breeder, here are just some pics from her kennels, WARNING some pics may cause distress but you must see them if you would like a copy of the full disc email me your address and one will be posted, also there are other issues regarding the registration of litters that will be released very soon, thank you p winder uk
to view pics http://ukwolfdogs.com/14.html
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:45   #8
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How deplorable to see such magnificent creatures so skinny and filthy. How many dogs are housed at the kennel? Did the dogs pictured in the mud have shelter from the elements?
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:54   #9
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Thirty two dogs?! http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/dbase/o36.html
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:25   #10
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For that, i must say, that database of WOLFDOG.ORG is not correct.
I think amount of dogs not hold true by many owner / breeder.

I think amount is less by many breeders, even, can be more as well.
As i know, there is many breeders / owners, who do not "update" their data's after every dog changing home / passed away.
-Maybe some do not update at all?
-Maybe Margo & Co have not time either to update data all the time.

We must also remember, that amount of dogs is not direct indicator for dogs condition, people can keep dog / dogs in bad conditions, even they have only 1 or 2. There is also "big kennels" with good conditions
(even some, which i had visit) If you look wolfdog.org database, there is many breeder/owner who have several dogs, not only one or two dog, but what is real amount, can be a different.

-Suski
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Old 11-12-2007, 12:02   #11
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maybe, Suski, but you know Mrs. K. is also a well-known breeder of Saarlooswolfhonden. So I really believe 30 x 2 dogs could be concerned.

Paul, do you know something concrete about the action which has started?

cheers
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Old 11-12-2007, 12:24   #12
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Its horrible to see such lovely dogs kept in such poor condition, its such a shame when theres people out there who can give these dogs a good home but cant becose were not aloud over here, hope she's not aloud to keep dogs ever again. hope the dogs find a good home
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Old 11-12-2007, 17:45   #13
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I have visited sleddog kennels with 70-100 happy dogs in good condition and they all had their own dry "house" to go in..so it's not always about the number of dogs..
but I have never seen dogs so skinny and bad kept before. It makes me angry. It does not seem like a usual "animal lovers" kennel to treat dogs like that, not in my eyes. What is going to happen with all those dogs?
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Old 11-12-2007, 18:28   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfsirius View Post
For that, i must say, that database of WOLFDOG.ORG is not correct. I think amount of dogs not hold true by many owner / breeder.
You're probably right, Suski, but the size of the kennel is not the core issue here, isn't it? It only indicates the scale of the problem - it would be easier to rehome 2-3, even 5 dogs than 20 or more.

Paul, I suppose everybody would be grateful for more information and more details, such as e.g. when and by whom these photos were taken and what steps were taken....
You've publicly made a serious accusation - honestly, it's hard to belive any breeder would keep his/her animals in such conditions - it would be totally irrational in the long run. Maybe the owner is sick or so, can't cope and needs help instead of criticism?

Has anybody else visited the place or bought pup/pups from this kennel? Can Paul's information be confirmed by others? Has the issue been ever discussed on the French forum?
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Old 11-12-2007, 19:39   #15
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Hi,

this is purely disgusting.
Yes, these conditions can be confirmed by a friend of mine who purchased a Saarlooswolfhond in the early 90's in Holland at her former puppy mill.
The conditions weren't much better at that time as he told me.
I haven't been to her place in France but a few other people reported the same as Paul had shown on his pics.
Another question is Paul, are you sure that all these CSW's are purebred or could they been mixed with Saarlooswolfhonden?
There are a few rumors around. But that's another story.

Cheers,

Michael
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Old 11-12-2007, 20:33   #16
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That place need help and very soon
And i know that place it´s not onlyone.
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Old 11-12-2007, 20:54   #17
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I am not really surprised about this. What surprises me, is that the conditions at this (or certain other kennels) were for a long time "accepted" or "ignored" and all of a sudden, it is a big thing and actions are to be taken.

What took so long? Or so to say, what made the change..?

I´ve seen in real some Louba Tar dogs in October 2005 on the special CSW dog show in Hoenderloo. They were all skinny and light-boned, very different from wolfdogs that I am used to see. I posted the photos at that time, there was an article about that dog show. Nobody was stressed about the look of the dogs at that time. Why now, all of a sudden?

Some of the photos of Louba Tar dogs, that I took at Hoenderloo, you can see here.

Btw., as a price for the winners, dog food for medium sized dogs was given....


Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
Hi,
Another question is Paul, are you sure that all these CSW's are purebred or could they been mixed with Saarlooswolfhonden?
There are a few rumors around. But that's another story.
Michael
I know that rumour too. I did not visit the kennel personally, but I´ve made my opinion from the unified look of the Saarloos wolfdogs and Czechoslovakian wolfdogs, that come from this kennel.. they all look the same, more or less. Btw., if you look well, you can see at least one picture from Pacino, that in one cage there is CSW and Saarloos together.
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Old 11-12-2007, 20:59   #18
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hi there were 119 dogs in total when i left in may 2004, this was adults and pups, paul
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Old 11-12-2007, 21:20   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rona View Post
You're probably right, Suski, but the size of the kennel is not the core issue here, isn't it? It only indicates the scale of the problem - it would be easier to rehome 2-3, even 5 dogs than 20 or more.

Paul, I suppose everybody would be grateful for more information and more details, such as e.g. when and by whom these photos were taken and what steps were taken....
You've publicly made a serious accusation - honestly, it's hard to belive any breeder would keep his/her animals in such conditions - it would be totally irrational in the long run. Maybe the owner is sick or so, can't cope and needs help instead of criticism?

Has anybody else visited the place or bought pup/pups from this kennel? Can Paul's information be confirmed by others? Has the issue been ever discussed on the French forum?
hi first of all my wife and i lived and worked at the de louba tar kennels for 18 mths, there was 49 dogs at the kennel in febuary 2002 we left in 2004 there was 199 dog at these kennel, we could not cope with the work, 15 hrs a day, there were other witnesses there when a friend and my self took the photos and made the videos, we did not report the matter because if you all remember in 2003 the French authorities went to kennels in mid France and destroyed over 40 dogs just because a breeder did not comply to regulations, we did not want this to happen as we loved all the dogs and knew them so well, we did seek help and it has taken a long time to assure the dogs will not be harmed, but action has started and things are now moving, as you all well know Mrs Keizer is both fit and well and still attends dog shows all over Europe, is still breeding and still selling dogs as you can see on this site as there is one or two needing new homes, so the answer to your question is the person sick or in ill health is NO, i can back up all i say both by photos and video clips, i also have independant witnesses who have all made statments, and all has been forwarded to the authorities, the dog conditions are only the tip of the iceburg there are other irregularities with this breeder that i am sorry i can not tell you about as there are other people involved , but as soon as i get word from Holland and France i will make it all public, paul uk
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Old 11-12-2007, 21:39   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
Hi,

this is purely disgusting.
Yes, these conditions can be confirmed by a friend of mine who purchased a Saarlooswolfhond in the early 90's in Holland at her former puppy mill.
The conditions weren't much better at that time as he told me.
I haven't been to her place in France but a few other people reported the same as Paul had shown on his pics.
Another question is Paul, are you sure that all these CSW's are purebred or could they been mixed with Saarlooswolfhonden?
There are a few rumors around. But that's another story.

Cheers,

Michael
hi, yes i am sure there are other people who can supply photos and information, if you have anything it can be forwarded to me via email or post, i only need facts with evidence, rumors about people will always be here as they always have been, i only need evidence or people who are prepared to make and sign statments, and will be prepared to go to court if required, regards paul
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