"What is your dog like"

draggar · 23-03-2010, 15:01

People ask about Luna's temperament and what vlcaks are like. I've decided this is the best answer.

"Go to your local police station and ask to see their hardest K9 unit (most likely a Belgian malinois). Take it and shoot it up with crack cocaine and heroine. Then, give it a quadruple shot of adrenalie and let it go".

yukidomari · 23-03-2010, 16:34

lol! Sounds like you guys are having fun..

draggar · 23-03-2010, 16:40

Luckily we worked our way up. When I first met Sara she had a worling line malinois, then we got two show line malinois (one with a lot of pack drive and work drive). Then, we got Kiri, our GSD who is harder than our malinois.

Now we have Luna.

yukidomari · 23-03-2010, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by draggar

Luckily we worked our way up. When I first met Sara she had a worling line malinois, then we got two show line malinois (one with a lot of pack drive and work drive). Then, we got Kiri, our GSD who is harder than our malinois.

Now we have Luna.

'Harder' in what respect? Sorry, it's a word I see thrown around a lot with all sorts of different meanings depending who's speaking..

draggar · 23-03-2010, 16:49

More intense, more working drive, more intelligent, and in Kiri's case - more prey drive, stronger, etc..

yukidomari · 23-03-2010, 16:57

Thanks for the clarification!

It'll be interesting to see how our experiences will match up to yours!

draggar · 23-03-2010, 17:07

I know you mentioned you didn't get avlcak yet - have you gotten one yet? Did you get one of Luna's litter mates (from Galomy Oak)?

yukidomari · 23-03-2010, 17:12

No, we haven't. We drove out to VA to visit and meet Marcy & the dogs in person, but right now isn't the right time for us to have another dog. We are planning for next winter or spring.. we have a whiles to go.. waiting until after our move cross-country. Course, it all depends if breedings even happen, etc. We have kept on the backburner the possibility of import; but I cannot travel to Europe due to the BF's restricted work-only (no international travel) Visa that comes into effect this May.

So, long story short, we would love to have one next winter/spring, but course, could be longer. The possibility of having a Vlcak has been on my mind since 2008 so I can afford to wait a little more.

Please continue to share your experiences so that I can pretend that it won't be as crazy for me...

Rona · 23-03-2010, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari

Please continue to share your experiences so that I can pretend that it won't be as crazy for me...

When you're raising a CSV puppy you keep telling yourself and your friends "It's not as tough as I thought it might be", but when the dog matures, you ask yourself "How did I manage to survive a few months with such a little monster?"

They're absolutely adorable if somebody is ready for new challenges and emotional ups and downs

23-03-2010, 23:21

I'm curious, have any of you who've raised CsVs had much experience with huskies and/or other spitz/primitive type dogs before? The more I hear about these dogs' temperaments, the more I'm reminded of huskies (the first breed I ever fell in love with!) I'm just curious how people would compare the two breeds, since it seems like a lot of CsV owners have a lot of GSD experience, and I've heard from a lot of GSD owners that they'd never be able to handle a husky temperament!

draggar · 24-03-2010, 00:09

We've had one litter of Finnish Spitz puppies a few years ago and they were extremely primitive. Their temperament was extremely similar to Luna's.

I could only imagine what a pack of these little devils would be like. The Finnish Spitz puppies used to take down Artemis (GSD about a month older than them) like a pack of coyotes taking down their prey.

yukidomari · 24-03-2010, 00:17

Vicky, no experience in the vlcak category yet, but asides from the roughly spitz look of a Vlcak, I think the temperaments are very different.

I've experience with GSDs and Spitz.. if the vlcak is roughly compared to a DDR GSD or Malinois, then no, a husky temperament it is not.

In general, spitz have the infamous 'spitz attitude', especially if you talk about dogs such as Sibes, the native Japanese spitz (shikoku, shiba, akita et al), Laikas. OB is not their strong point and it's not that they aren't smart.. it's just that their head works differently when it comes to training. They are free spirited and independent in nature, as is apparent from the work they were bred for (sledding and drafting require a lot of judgment on the dogs' part), hunting, etc. For the same reasons many of them are completely unreliable off lead and most have high prey drive.

In comparison to GSDs, a well rounded working line GSD isn't SUPPOSED to have high prey drive, for one. A well bred GSD is a level headed animal. GSDs have been used in a variety of work including OB, SchH, rally, therapy work, etc., pretty much a complete opposite spectrum of what spitz typically are used for.

It was with these considerations in mind that I have chosen to have a vlcak instead of another spitz - namely the Shikoku-ken - although looks wise they are roughly 'wolf like'.

I do not like to use the word 'primitive' because the meaning is so vague. It has nothing to do with human breeding interference nor age of the breed.. it has more to do with specific drives..

I do think from my reading that vlcaks differ significantly from spitz temperament.. at the very least, I hope so, since this is one of the reasons I've based my decision on. I think the motivations for biddability differs between the two. JMHO.

ETA: Also, if you're into precision work... spitze would not be your cup of tea.. I don't know how well vlcaks fit into doing precision work but if from the comparisons to Malis hold true, they do that pretty darn well. I have exceedingly rarely seen a few spitz title in SchH, and even rarer as a service animal (most being ESAs or TDs instead if in the field) - Draggar, your wife would probably be a better authority on this - I just don't think that is their forte.

tupacs2legs · 24-03-2010, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky

I'm curious, have any of you who've raised CsVs had much experience with huskies and/or other spitz/primitive type dogs before? The more I hear about these dogs' temperaments, the more I'm reminded of huskies (the first breed I ever fell in love with!) I'm just curious how people would compare the two breeds, since it seems like a lot of CsV owners have a lot of GSD experience, and I've heard from a lot of GSD owners that they'd never be able to handle a husky temperament!

hi

i have huskys(6) as well as my csv,i think they put me in good stead for a csv,... i think a csv is kinda like a husky crossed with a mallinois if you catch my drift?

24-03-2010, 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

hi

i have huskys(6) as well as my csv,i think they put me in good stead for a csv,... i think a csv is kinda like a husky crossed with a mallinois if you catch my drift?

This is exactly what I'd had in mind, thanks.

My first love has always been huskies with their "selective hearing", so when I thought about getting involved with GSDs for participation in dog sports, I thought maybe they'd be TOO biddable!

I like having a dog that's going to talk back to me!

Yuki, I should have realized you'd have a bunch of spitz info!

I love Japanese dogs, I've always told myself that one day I'd like to own a shiba (and I get a lot of crazy looks for it!). I tend to think dog people either lean towards spitz type personalities or more "doggy", biddable personalities, and I personally have a much easier time working with a spitz. I also love that CsVs seem to fall smack dab in the middle, only I'm looking for a ramped up version of a GSD as opposed to a more biddable spitz.

haha

soniakanavle · 25-03-2010, 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky

I'm curious, have any of you who've raised CsVs had much experience with huskies and/or other spitz/primitive type dogs before? The more I hear about these dogs' temperaments, the more I'm reminded of huskies (the first breed I ever fell in love with!) I'm just curious how people would compare the two breeds, since it seems like a lot of CsV owners have a lot of GSD experience, and I've heard from a lot of GSD owners that they'd never be able to handle a husky temperament!

My first dog was an Alaskan Husky, then a GSD and now my CsV. I love them all and I would say in order of 'crazyness', Huskys hands down first, then CsV second and GSD last.
So true about their "selective hearing" hahaha.
I'll put it this way, when walking out in the country with my dogs, my GSD would be right by my heel, always. My CsV will run up ahead to sniff something and look around but will come back to check on me. And my husky? Well, she would be gone like a bullet and come home by herself late at night covered in cowshit and some poor little woodland creature that turned into a snack in her jaws. [Very high roaming instinct that the GSD doesn't have.]

I spend every winter at a sled dog racing kennel so I get to be around lots and lots of huskys and Flint [my CsV] is TERRIFIED of them lol. Definitely more wild than my 'wolf.'

Gypsy Wolf · 28-03-2010, 20:52

On the topic of behavior and comparisons, Ed and I see the same things in our dogs a little differently - Ed is more "pet" oriented than I am - I tend to be much more "exacting" in terms of behavior.
I think my experience with the vlcak, as a breed (and of course I can only really go by Luna so far), I think she is much more "working-line Czech/DDR shepherd" in temperament, with a little bit of Spitz "flavor" - she is more independent and less biddable/amenable than a typical GSD. She has intense pack drive, INCREDIBLY expressive when it comes to body language (very exaggerated body and facial expressions). She is not "environmentally sensitive" but instead, "environmentally aware" - the difference being the responses she exhibits when there is something novel in her environment. There are also some characteristics she displays that are "bitch" specific, rather than breed specific - such as that brief "calculation" of what value something has to her before she decides to do it. Boys tend to just do it - to please their person. Bitches THINK first.
From all I have read on the breed, as well as my own interpretation of the standard, I think that Luna displays the correct traits - whether I think they are "good" or not - she can be a little hard-ass brat. She is not a fan of being restrained, and will get growly when she is cranky and gets picked up (the instant I growl back, she stops) - Her nickname is Miss Growlypants. Thankfully, most of the stuff I do is dog-related so I have a lot of folks who are helping me fix this. We have dog stuff Monday through Thursday nights as well as SchH on Saturdays.
My biggest worry/concern is that we are ambassadors for the breed - and not that I want to mis-represent the breed in any way, but in order to "look good" to the American public, she will need to be socially friendly. So we are teaching her a "go say hello" command to be friendly - her nature (correct for the breed) is to be standoffish with "not-Pack"... I just don't want people to get the wrong idea that this is a great dog for just anyone... to me, they are as difficult in their own way as a Belgian Malinois. To me, the spitz breeds are easy in comparison - AS PETS. THe average Joe doesn't care about training, so a SPitz is fine - as long as it's on a leash! A vlcak can be a liability in the wrong hands...

Gypsy Wolf · 28-03-2010, 20:53

But, oh, she is so much FUN!!!

AMERICANI · 29-03-2010, 23:00

My little Soselo is a "hard-ass" too... Ecaterina & Piter were both nicer as pups, (You are on point with the "bitch" specific thing), Ecaterina will still tell me when she doesn't want to be moved or whatever, but I am alpha and she knows.

Gypsy Wolf · 29-03-2010, 23:24

I also think in vlcaks there seems to be a big difference, both physically and temeramentally, between dogs and bitches. From what I gather, the bitches are more "temperamental" whereas the boys are "sweeter"... I see there is a size difference, too.
I can't wait to see what Luna grows up in to - of course, I do anticipate a rocky road...

yukidomari · 30-03-2010, 16:38

Thanks for sharing, Luna's mom!

I'm glad that's how you've described them - that's something I thought they'd be roughly like.

Glad that your experience lines up similarly with what I've heard from others.

Can't wait! (Still have a year or so to go, though..)

23-03-2010, 15:01	#1
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	"What is your dog like" People ask about Luna's temperament and what vlcaks are like. I've decided this is the best answer. "Go to your local police station and ask to see their hardest K9 unit (most likely a Belgian malinois). Take it and shoot it up with crack cocaine and heroine. Then, give it a quadruple shot of adrenalie and let it go". __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

23-03-2010, 16:40	#3
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	Luckily we worked our way up. When I first met Sara she had a worling line malinois, then we got two show line malinois (one with a lot of pack drive and work drive). Then, we got Kiri, our GSD who is harder than our malinois. Now we have Luna. __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

23-03-2010, 16:49	#5
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	More intense, more working drive, more intelligent, and in Kiri's case - more prey drive, stronger, etc.. __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

23-03-2010, 17:07	#7
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	I know you mentioned you didn't get avlcak yet - have you gotten one yet? Did you get one of Luna's litter mates (from Galomy Oak)? __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

24-03-2010, 00:09	#11
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	We've had one litter of Finnish Spitz puppies a few years ago and they were extremely primitive. Their temperament was extremely similar to Luna's. I could only imagine what a pack of these little devils would be like. The Finnish Spitz puppies used to take down Artemis (GSD about a month older than them) like a pack of coyotes taking down their prey. __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

23-03-2010, 16:34	#2
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	lol! Sounds like you guys are having fun..

23-03-2010, 16:57	#6
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	Thanks for the clarification! It'll be interesting to see how our experiences will match up to yours!

23-03-2010, 17:12	#8
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	No, we haven't. We drove out to VA to visit and meet Marcy & the dogs in person, but right now isn't the right time for us to have another dog. We are planning for next winter or spring.. we have a whiles to go.. waiting until after our move cross-country. Course, it all depends if breedings even happen, etc. We have kept on the backburner the possibility of import; but I cannot travel to Europe due to the BF's restricted work-only (no international travel) Visa that comes into effect this May. So, long story short, we would love to have one next winter/spring, but course, could be longer. The possibility of having a Vlcak has been on my mind since 2008 so I can afford to wait a little more. Please continue to share your experiences so that I can pretend that it won't be as crazy for me...

23-03-2010, 23:21	#10
Vicky Guest Posts: n/a	I'm curious, have any of you who've raised CsVs had much experience with huskies and/or other spitz/primitive type dogs before? The more I hear about these dogs' temperaments, the more I'm reminded of huskies (the first breed I ever fell in love with!) I'm just curious how people would compare the two breeds, since it seems like a lot of CsV owners have a lot of GSD experience, and I've heard from a lot of GSD owners that they'd never be able to handle a husky temperament!

24-03-2010, 00:17	#12
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	Vicky, no experience in the vlcak category yet, but asides from the roughly spitz look of a Vlcak, I think the temperaments are very different. I've experience with GSDs and Spitz.. if the vlcak is roughly compared to a DDR GSD or Malinois, then no, a husky temperament it is not. In general, spitz have the infamous 'spitz attitude', especially if you talk about dogs such as Sibes, the native Japanese spitz (shikoku, shiba, akita et al), Laikas. OB is not their strong point and it's not that they aren't smart.. it's just that their head works differently when it comes to training. They are free spirited and independent in nature, as is apparent from the work they were bred for (sledding and drafting require a lot of judgment on the dogs' part), hunting, etc. For the same reasons many of them are completely unreliable off lead and most have high prey drive. In comparison to GSDs, a well rounded working line GSD isn't SUPPOSED to have high prey drive, for one. A well bred GSD is a level headed animal. GSDs have been used in a variety of work including OB, SchH, rally, therapy work, etc., pretty much a complete opposite spectrum of what spitz typically are used for. It was with these considerations in mind that I have chosen to have a vlcak instead of another spitz - namely the Shikoku-ken - although looks wise they are roughly 'wolf like'. I do not like to use the word 'primitive' because the meaning is so vague. It has nothing to do with human breeding interference nor age of the breed.. it has more to do with specific drives.. I do think from my reading that vlcaks differ significantly from spitz temperament.. at the very least, I hope so, since this is one of the reasons I've based my decision on. I think the motivations for biddability differs between the two. JMHO. ETA: Also, if you're into precision work... spitze would not be your cup of tea.. I don't know how well vlcaks fit into doing precision work but if from the comparisons to Malis hold true, they do that pretty darn well. I have exceedingly rarely seen a few spitz title in SchH, and even rarer as a service animal (most being ESAs or TDs instead if in the field) - Draggar, your wife would probably be a better authority on this - I just don't think that is their forte. Last edited by yukidomari; 24-03-2010 at 00:59.

28-03-2010, 20:52	#16
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	On the topic of behavior and comparisons, Ed and I see the same things in our dogs a little differently - Ed is more "pet" oriented than I am - I tend to be much more "exacting" in terms of behavior. I think my experience with the vlcak, as a breed (and of course I can only really go by Luna so far), I think she is much more "working-line Czech/DDR shepherd" in temperament, with a little bit of Spitz "flavor" - she is more independent and less biddable/amenable than a typical GSD. She has intense pack drive, INCREDIBLY expressive when it comes to body language (very exaggerated body and facial expressions). She is not "environmentally sensitive" but instead, "environmentally aware" - the difference being the responses she exhibits when there is something novel in her environment. There are also some characteristics she displays that are "bitch" specific, rather than breed specific - such as that brief "calculation" of what value something has to her before she decides to do it. Boys tend to just do it - to please their person. Bitches THINK first. From all I have read on the breed, as well as my own interpretation of the standard, I think that Luna displays the correct traits - whether I think they are "good" or not - she can be a little hard-ass brat. She is not a fan of being restrained, and will get growly when she is cranky and gets picked up (the instant I growl back, she stops) - Her nickname is Miss Growlypants. Thankfully, most of the stuff I do is dog-related so I have a lot of folks who are helping me fix this. We have dog stuff Monday through Thursday nights as well as SchH on Saturdays. My biggest worry/concern is that we are ambassadors for the breed - and not that I want to mis-represent the breed in any way, but in order to "look good" to the American public, she will need to be socially friendly. So we are teaching her a "go say hello" command to be friendly - her nature (correct for the breed) is to be standoffish with "not-Pack"... I just don't want people to get the wrong idea that this is a great dog for just anyone... to me, they are as difficult in their own way as a Belgian Malinois. To me, the spitz breeds are easy in comparison - AS PETS. THe average Joe doesn't care about training, so a SPitz is fine - as long as it's on a leash! A vlcak can be a liability in the wrong hands...

28-03-2010, 20:53	#17
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	But, oh, she is so much FUN!!!

29-03-2010, 23:00	#18
AMERICANI Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 111	My little Soselo is a "hard-ass" too... Ecaterina & Piter were both nicer as pups, (You are on point with the "bitch" specific thing), Ecaterina will still tell me when she doesn't want to be moved or whatever, but I am alpha and she knows.

29-03-2010, 23:24	#19
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	I also think in vlcaks there seems to be a big difference, both physically and temeramentally, between dogs and bitches. From what I gather, the bitches are more "temperamental" whereas the boys are "sweeter"... I see there is a size difference, too. I can't wait to see what Luna grows up in to - of course, I do anticipate a rocky road...

30-03-2010, 16:38	#20
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	Thanks for sharing, Luna's mom! I'm glad that's how you've described them - that's something I thought they'd be roughly like. Glad that your experience lines up similarly with what I've heard from others. Can't wait! (Still have a year or so to go, though..)